Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:40 AM - Re: First Timer Question (Bob Miller)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: First Timer Question (Scott Laughlin)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: First Timer Question (Bill Howerton)
4. 08:37 AM - Re: First Timer Question (caspainhower@aep.com)
5. 09:35 AM - Re: First Timer Question (Jack Russell)
6. 10:10 AM - CH601 Brake pads (Richard McLachlan)
7. 11:35 AM - Re: CH601 Brake pads (Mike Fothergill)
8. 02:05 PM - Re: First Timer Question (Monty Graves)
9. 02:13 PM - Fuel Cap Engraving, Labeling, Indentifying (Wayne Cahoon @ Aircraft Engravers)
10. 04:06 PM - Re: First Timer Question (Chesterman Family)
11. 04:21 PM - One more "first-timer" suggestion -- (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
12. 04:41 PM - Prospect and Engine ? (Dan Sherburn)
13. 05:15 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (wizard-24@juno.com)
14. 05:20 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Larry McFarland)
15. 05:25 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Phil Maxson)
16. 05:34 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Jack Russell)
17. 05:38 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Tim & Diane Shankland)
18. 05:38 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Jack Russell)
19. 05:49 PM - Re: First Timer Question (MXSportPilot@aol.com)
20. 05:54 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (ronnie wehba)
21. 06:10 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Dan Sherburn)
22. 07:31 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Daniel Vandenberg)
23. 08:04 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Robert Hillebrand)
24. 09:41 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Kevin W Bonds)
25. 10:22 PM - Re: Prospect and Engine ? (Brett Ray)
26. 11:18 PM - Re: First Timer Question (Robin Gould)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Jack,
It's funny what is encouraging.
The one thing that detracts from my enjoyment of this project is my tendency
to think I must be the only one who makes lots of mistakes and has to redo
them. Reading your admission of many mistakes and how you've "remade half
the plane" makes me feel much better about going out and getting started
correcting the last one!
Thanks,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Russell" <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Timer Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
> Mick <mickrobertss@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mick
>
> I'm about to start ordering sections and tools to start building an XL.
Any tips before I start?
>
>
> Mick: One word - clecos. Order lots of clecos. Ok, maybe more than one
word. I don't know how many I bought from ZAC (whatever was recommended) but
I had to order about 200 more 1/8" from aircraft spruce. It seems I am
always running out.
>
> Other tools which I could not live without are:
>
> Drill Press- Could be done without but I wouldn't want to.
>
> Air compressor -I love the sound of air tools because they sound so
professional. The air drill is smaller and lighter than electric. I also
have a right angle air drill.
>
> Jig saw- small cuts. Make sure you rig a way to hold the work down to the
table. I use my table saw for long cuts even on thin work by clamping a
board at the front of the blade and feeding the stock under the board. It
keeps the thin piece from chattering.
>
> 40" bending brake from harbor- I started with a 30 and found it to small.
I have made many mistakes and have remade parts with this brake. Which by
the way, I you buy the complete kit, ZAC throws in enough scrap aluminum to
build a second XL which is nice since I have probably remade half of the
plane!
>
> Rivet spacing tool- handy
>
> Bench- I built 2 4x8 benchs that mate together with a inch overlap on the
top plywood. I worked well to build the rear fuselage then I split it in the
center to install the landing gear and front fuselage. It just seemed easier
than the steel setup that ZAC shows. Then I put it back together to get
started on the wings.
>
> Sharpie- Splurge and get a whole box. I think I am on my second.
>
> Angle Gage- One of those circle angle gages with a magnet on the bottom
from Harbor that shows the degree of angle. I used this a lot but I can't
seem to get it to stick to the aluminum. Must be something defective.
>
> Lots of different files: Chain saw files are also handy. And the best
thing I found for smoothing a edge after cutting with hand cutter is the
kind of knife sharpener with the V notch.
>
> 1/2" drill bit: After using all the deburring methods in the world I keep
going back to the drill bit with a half twist by hand. Fast and I don't see
that it cuts into the aluminum at all. It is a old dull one though.
>
> One other thing which you will need is a good vocabulary of profanity.
>
>
> Jack Russell -Clovis CA
> 601 XL Jabiru 3300
> Progress update at:
> http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Jack:
That was a great post. It was better than a "first timer" answer! I've
been building for one year and I benefited from the post! The tip on the
knife sharpener is brilliant! I'll try that tonight. Just last night I was
de-burring parts for my landing lights having fits with it. A pass with the
knife sharpener followed by a file would have made quick work of it.
Thanks!
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Timer Question
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Mick <mickrobertss@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mick
I'm about to start ordering sections and tools to start building an XL. Any
tips before I start?
Mick: One word - clecos. Order lots of clecos. Ok, maybe more than one word.
I don't know how many I bought from ZAC (whatever was recommended) but I had
to order about 200 more 1/8" from aircraft spruce. It seems I am always
running out.
Other tools which I could not live without are:
Drill Press- Could be done without but I wouldn't want to.
Air compressor -I love the sound of air tools because they sound so
professional. The air drill is smaller and lighter than electric. I also
have a right angle air drill.
Jig saw- small cuts. Make sure you rig a way to hold the work down to the
table. I use my table saw for long cuts even on thin work by clamping a
board at the front of the blade and feeding the stock under the board. It
keeps the thin piece from chattering.
40" bending brake from harbor- I started with a 30 and found it to small.
I have made many mistakes and have remade parts with this brake. Which by
the way, I you buy the complete kit, ZAC throws in enough scrap aluminum to
build a second XL which is nice since I have probably remade half of the
plane!
Rivet spacing tool- handy
Bench- I built 2 4x8 benchs that mate together with a inch overlap on the
top plywood. I worked well to build the rear fuselage then I split it in the
center to install the landing gear and front fuselage. It just seemed easier
than the steel setup that ZAC shows. Then I put it back together to get
started on the wings.
Sharpie- Splurge and get a whole box. I think I am on my second.
Angle Gage- One of those circle angle gages with a magnet on the bottom from
Harbor that shows the degree of angle. I used this a lot but I can't seem to
get it to stick to the aluminum. Must be something defective.
Lots of different files: Chain saw files are also handy. And the best thing
I found for smoothing a edge after cutting with hand cutter is the kind of
knife sharpener with the V notch.
1/2" drill bit: After using all the deburring methods in the world I keep
going back to the drill bit with a half twist by hand. Fast and I don't see
that it cuts into the aluminum at all. It is a old dull one though.
One other thing which you will need is a good vocabulary of profanity.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software optimizes dial-up to the max!
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
Mick,
Fist off let me welcome you to our little fraternity here! It's a
pretty select group that you've chosen to join. It takes a fairly large set
of brass balls to make the plunge both financially and notionally to build
your own airplane with the stated intention of setting yourself into the
cockpit that you've built, then taking that airplane into the sky. Congrats
and Welcome!
Second, let me suggest:
1. Get a GOOD set of aviation snips - you'll be using them allot
2. Find a good all-metal metrics ruler - you'll be using that allot too.
3. Get a good 90-degree drill\, and be prepared to buy LOTS of #40, #30 and
#20 drill bits
4. Get a good riveter with a machined head (I've both ordered the ZAC ones
and I've made my own)
5. Get a good set of bench-mounted tools (grinder, vice, saw and belt/disc
sander)
6. You suggested you were a kit builder, so comments about bending brakes
and welding techniques do not apply to you
7. make yourself a nice LEVEL table 4'X12' is the size I recommend- I also
suggest putting onto it some hashmarks spaced at 1 inch - take a look at
mine at http://bill.howerton.com/zodiac/zodiac_main.htm
8. Prepare to READ, READ READ and then when your done, READ some more. - I
had no idea just how much study would go into this project, nor did I have
any idea how many different subjects I would gain an expertise in -
everything from sheetmetal construction techniques to aircraft fasteners to
engine design and electrical systems theory. You will probably spend more
time reading and studying than you will actually building.
Notice that my thread had a common theme. Get GOOD tools! There are times
that scrimping is OK, and others where it is not. Your tools purchase
should definitely be listed in the not ok category.
Finally, and perhaps this is the most impotent point, prepare to take your
time have and fun. This essentially is a hobby - enjoy it! You're gonna
hear from guys that say they built their airplane in 450 hours - more power
to them. I personally have no idea how many hours I've been working on my
plane, and I don't want to know. I go out to the garage, and start working,
and the hours just melt away. Issues at work suddenly don't exist, other
strifes from my life take a back-seat, and the only thing that is important
doing a good job machining my seat-belt fastener.
Again, Welcome!
Bill Howerton
N714BH - 601XL Corvair
Colorado Springs, Co
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mick" <mickrobertss@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: First Timer Question
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mick <mickrobertss@yahoo.com>
>
> I'm about to start ordering sections and tools to start building an XL.
Any tips before I start?
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
01/23/2004 11:36:33 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>I'm about to start ordering sections and tools to start building an XL.
Any tips before I start?
Harbor Freight. I got a pnuematic riveter from ZAC and it died recently.
I picked up the lightweight aircraft riveter from Harbor freight and it is
faster, lighter and does a better job (a little less expensive too). The
ZAC nose pieces work with it too. They have numerous styles of clamps
there too, I got a selection of plastic spring clamps and some miniature
c-clamps. Buy the best titanium coated drill bits you can get, I bought a
set of DeWalt and couldn't be happier. Don't buy aviation sheers there
though, the type ZAC sells work great. That's my 2-cents.
Craig S.
601 XL, N601XS Lyc 0-235
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Bill Howerton <Bill@Howerton.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton"
You're gonna
hear from guys that say they built their airplane in 450 hours - more power
to them. I personally have no idea how many hours I've been working on my
plane, and I don't want to know. I go out to the garage, and start working,
and the hours just melt away. Issues at work suddenly don't exist, other
strifes from my life take a back-seat, and the only thing that is important
doing a good job machining my seat-belt fastener.
Bill: Good point. I think all first timers need to be aware of this. I have posted
this before but here it is again. The 500 hr build time was a big part of
what sold the plane to me. Well, the 500 mark has come and gone and it doesn't
really matter to me anymore. The important thing is the journey now.(sounds
corny) I am almost afraid to finish because I think I will miss the process.
Oh well, I guess their will be another plane to build. Right, Carlos in Mexico!
jack
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | CH601 Brake pads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" <richard@rodsley.net>
We have a CH601HDS that was the first one built in the UK. We need a new set
of brake pads for it. As we did not build it ourselves, we do not have any
of the original plans or documentation. I know the wheels come from came
from Matco but I have no other information.
Can anybody help with a part number so we can obtain some new ones?
Thanks
Richard McLachlan
CH601/R22
landing site details at www.rodsley.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CH601 Brake pads |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi;
The brake pads are a standard type that can be obtained from Aircraft Spruce P/N
RA-106 or you can order them from Matco.
Mike
UHS Spinners
Richard McLachlan wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" <richard@rodsley.net>
>
> We have a CH601HDS that was the first one built in the UK. We need a new set
> of brake pads for it. As we did not build it ourselves, we do not have any
> of the original plans or documentation. I know the wheels come from came
> from Matco but I have no other information.
>
> Can anybody help with a part number so we can obtain some new ones?
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard McLachlan
>
> CH601/R22
>
> landing site details at www.rodsley.net
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
I will only add that the 2 best snips I have ever seen or owned. And I
recommend highly.
"Pro Snips" Brand, deep offset, red color handles if you are right
handed. Green if you are a lefty. I saw the local Home Depot is handling
them now. These offset snips are better than WISS aviation snips or any
other brand for that matter. They don't have seerated edges, that leave
riser marks when they cut that have to be removed. The deep offset ones
cut either strait or curved. You won't need both colors, buy either red
or green.
Buy these before any others. You won't be sorrry.
The other set of snips I recommend are made by Masco, which I own a 14
inch pair from Lowes... or a simalar brand is ANDY Snips, and can be found
in the vinyl or alum siding dept of Lowes or Home Depot. They have
replaceable blades, and do a great job of long strait cuts or large curves.
The also don't leave any riser marks.
The YARD in KS is the best place to buy Clecos, about 35 cents.PN:11011
And drill bits too. And the dog leg speed deburr tool PN : 14031 that
every alum builder should own. And vixen files. and ... and....
http://www.yardstore.com/tools.htm
Monty
Message 9
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| From: | "Wayne Cahoon @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net> |
<xdp4000x-list@matronics.com>, <warbird-list@matronics.com>,
<ultralight-list@matronics.com>, <teamgrumman-list@matronics.com>,
<tailwind-list@matronics.com>, <stratus-list@matronics.com>,
<sonerai-list@matronics.com>, <smithmini-list@matronics.com>,
<seaplane-list@matronics.com>, <sailplane-list@matronics.com>,
<rv-list@matronics.com>, <rocket-list@matronics.com>,
<pitts-list@matronics.com>, <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>,
<pelican-list@matronics.com>, <lom-list@matronics.com>,
<lancair-list@matronics.com>, <l39-list@matronics.com>,
<kr-list@matronics.com>, <kolb-list@matronics.com>,
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>, <homebuilt-list@matronics.com>,
<glasair-list@matronics.com>, <fewmustang-list@matronics.com>,
<ez-list@matronics.com>, <europa-list@matronics.com>,
<czech-list@matronics.com>, <cadet-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Fuel Cap Engraving, Labeling, Indentifying |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Cahoon @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net>
Have your Fuel Caps engraved, it's permanent and easy to read. Aircraft Engravers
has been engraving fuel caps for over 14 years.
You can see our web page at http://engravers.net/aircraft/fuel_caps.htm
Other types of engraving jobs can be viewed at http://engravers.net/main/ac_products.htm
There are a few sets of loaner fuel caps for the more common styles if your tanks
are wet.
FREE shipping by USPS Priority mail for all fuel cap engraving orders in the month
of February.
Wayne Cahoon
Aircraft Engravers
(860) 653-2780
(860) 653-7324 Fax
http://engravers.net/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Chesterman Family <chesterman@on.aibn.com>
Don't worry about being finished. After flying my 701 for 6 yrs and 220 hrs mine
is still not finished.
dave c 701
really matter to me anymore. The important thing is the journey now.(sounds corny)
I am almost afraid to finish because I think I will miss the process. Oh
well, I guess their will be another plane to build. Right, Carlos in Mexico!
>
> jack
Message 11
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| Subject: | One more "first-timer" suggestion -- |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Get a really GOOD pair of shoes. The kind that train easily, because as you
walk 'round and 'round your work table pondering the improbable you don't need
to waste good brain cell capacity directing your feet to move in a given
direction.
Get shoes that know where to walk with minimal coaching, because you WILL
devote an appreciable amount of your time walking 'round and 'round and
'round.........etc, until some small detail jumps out to grab you. At this point
these
good shoes need to automatically propel you to the beer cooler to celebrate
another conquest of the instructions and drawings!
As others have so aptly suggested, tools, tools and more tools will be one of
your best investments. ZAC photo guides are extremely helpful. And lastly,
this List-Of-Last-Resort will get you the Right Stuff (with some leg-pulling
thrown in).
I think someone even mentioned the famous "Brass Spheres" as being required.
Welcome !
Zed Smith/701/R912/90% do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Hi,
I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
of ownership got too expensive.
I've started to research the Homebuilt industry and am fairly excited
by what I see, especially within the Zenith offering. I would love the
prospect of building and being able to design the panel and interior of
my airplane. Being able to do my own maintenance would be a big
plus, as I love doing those things.
The only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended engines.
The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info. on the Rotax
912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor, etc.
Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want anything
unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the $30,000
figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
Great list....thanks in advance for the information and opinions!
Dan Sherburn
Spring Lake, MI
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> The only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended
> engines. The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info.
on the
> Rotax 912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor,
> etc. Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives?
Ok, I'll be the first to ring in on this one....check out the possibility
of the Corvair conversion. Should cost you less than $5K for everything
firewall forward, assuming you can work on engines. In fact, if my guess
is correct a FWF offering probably isn't that far off in the future.
Check out http://www.corvaircraft.com/ where you can, among other things,
join the corvair email list (lots of good folks there). There's also a
link somewhere to William Wynne's site.
Assuming you don't want to tinker with engines, then you're left with
spending lots more bucks. In fact, I was settled on the jabiru 3300
($15K+ for everything), but ultimately decided that the $10K+ of savings
was worth giving the Corvair a shot. There are lots of good choices
(which I suppose is one of the benefits of the 601) ranging from auto
conversions to fully certified aircraft engines -- it just depends on
your budget.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
> Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want
anything
> unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the
$30,000
> figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
>
Dan,
Don't give in to dispare. There are lots of alternatives to the new
engines.
Someone in our chapter always seems to have an engine, either
Continental 75, 85 or 0-200 on the block. They don't need to be new,
just servicable. I'm using a Subaru EA-81 because I like water cooled
engines, but there are used Rotax 912s and Jabarus, all in easier reach than
the $15000 you mention. The C-150 will have ADs and costs that are much
higher in the long run than one of the Zenith types so hang in there.
Try a Google search or eBay and check in with your local EAA Chapter
to let them know what you're trying to find. Help is out there.
Good luck
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
There are many auto conversion engines that are much cheaper. Many on the
list are converting and rebuilding their own Corvair based engines, which is
what I'm doing. Direct drive, 100 h.p., air cooled. Check out
http://www.flycorvair.com/
http://corvaircraft.com/
The final costs of the finished project depends on your choice of engine and
avionics. If you want to trade cost for time, you could build all or parts
of the plane from plans. Once you get started the building is a lot of fun.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage 90%, Starting Engine rebuild
>From: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Prospect and Engine ?
>Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:35:05 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
>Hi,
>I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
>pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
>of ownership got too expensive.
>
>Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want
>anything
>unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the $30,000
>figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Dan: Do be discouraged but I will be between $35-40k with the complete kit and
options and Jabiru engine, paint and uph. Some of the smarter guys on this list
can show your how to do it less expensive. You could build from scratch, use
auto engines, or get a partner.
Jack Russell
do not archive
Dan Sherburn <dsherburn@charter.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn"
Hi,
I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
of ownership got too expensive.
I've started to research the Homebuilt industry and am fairly excited
by what I see, especially within the Zenith offering. I would love the
prospect of building and being able to design the panel and interior of
my airplane. Being able to do my own maintenance would be a big
plus, as I love doing those things.
The only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended engines.
The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info. on the Rotax
912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor, etc.
Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want anything
unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the $30,000
figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
Great list....thanks in advance for the information and opinions!
Dan Sherburn
Spring Lake, MI
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Dan,
There are as many engine options as there are engines. I have a Stratus
Suburu about $8K. If necessary parts can be bought at Auto Zone( I know
they sell the same fuel pump that came with my engine). I think as you
pointed out the big savings is not in acquiring an airplane, but keeping
it. I too owned a certified airplane with a couple of others fellows,
and the cost of upkeep can make you broke.
Tim Shankland
Dan Sherburn wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
>Hi,
>I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
>pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
>of ownership got too expensive.
>
>I've started to research the Homebuilt industry and am fairly excited
>by what I see, especially within the Zenith offering. I would love the
>prospect of building and being able to design the panel and interior of
>my airplane. Being able to do my own maintenance would be a big
>plus, as I love doing those things.
>
>The only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended engines.
>The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info. on the Rotax
>912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor, etc.
>Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want anything
>unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the $30,000
>figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
>
>Great list....thanks in advance for the information and opinions!
>
>Dan Sherburn
>Spring Lake, MI
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Dan: Do be discouraged but I will be between $35-40k
Sorry Dan this should have read Don't be discouraged. Funny that a couple of letters
can change your whole point.
jack
do not archive
Dan Sherburn <dsherburn@charter.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn"
Hi,
I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
of ownership got too expensive.
I've started to research the Homebuilt industry and am fairly excited
by what I see, especially within the Zenith offering. I would love the
prospect of building and being able to design the panel and interior of
my airplane. Being able to do my own maintenance would be a big
plus, as I love doing those things.
The only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended engines.
The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info. on the Rotax
912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor, etc.
Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want anything
unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the $30,000
figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
Great list....thanks in advance for the information and opinions!
Dan Sherburn
Spring Lake, MI
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MXSportPilot@aol.com
In a message dated 1/23/2004 12:36:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
clojan@sbcglobal.net writes:
> Well, the 500 mark has come and gone and it doesn't really matter to me
> anymore. The important thing is the journey now.(sounds corny) I am almost
> afraid to finish because I think I will miss the process. Oh well, I guess their
> will be another plane to build. Right, Carlos in Mexico!
>
> jack
>
Howdy ya'all, talked to an older gentleman selling his 701 cause he lost his
medical the other day...Would you believe he missed building more than giving
up his airplane! Well maybe not that much, but he sure did miss the hell out
of building! Hey, when you finish your Zenith and you need to build take a
look at the Hummelbird designs...like the UltraCrusier Plus! That will be my
2nd! And my third! His and hers when we don't want to fly two up!
Thats my dream anyway! Grin...
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
required 5, BAYES_00)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
What are you putting the sub on?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Prospect and Engine ?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn"
<dsherburn@charter.net>
> >
> > Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want
> anything
> > unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the
> $30,000
> > figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
> >
>
> Dan,
> Don't give in to dispare. There are lots of alternatives to the new
> engines.
> Someone in our chapter always seems to have an engine, either
> Continental 75, 85 or 0-200 on the block. They don't need to be new,
> just servicable. I'm using a Subaru EA-81 because I like water cooled
> engines, but there are used Rotax 912s and Jabarus, all in easier reach
than
> the $15000 you mention. The C-150 will have ADs and costs that are much
> higher in the long run than one of the Zenith types so hang in there.
> Try a Google search or eBay and check in with your local EAA Chapter
> to let them know what you're trying to find. Help is out there.
>
> Good luck
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Thanks to all the replies...I've been looking at the Corvair site. It
even has a used engine for sale! I'll keep scouring the web.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Prospect and Engine ?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
>
> There are many auto conversion engines that are much cheaper. Many on the
> list are converting and rebuilding their own Corvair based engines, which
is
> what I'm doing. Direct drive, 100 h.p., air cooled. Check out
>
> http://www.flycorvair.com/
> http://corvaircraft.com/
>
> The final costs of the finished project depends on your choice of engine
and
> avionics. If you want to trade cost for time, you could build all or
parts
> of the plane from plans. Once you get started the building is a lot of
fun.
>
> Phil Maxson
> 601XL/Corvair
> Fuselage 90%, Starting Engine rebuild
>
> >From: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
> >Subject: Zenith-List: Prospect and Engine ?
> >Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:35:05 -0500
> >
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
> >
> >Hi,
> >I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
> >pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
> >of ownership got too expensive.
> >
> >Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want
> >anything
> >unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the
$30,000
> >figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg <djvdb63@yahoo.com>
Dan...
You may know this but...depending on which Zenith model you are considering, there
may be affordable auto-engine conversion alternatives available that significantly
reduce the projected expense.
For the 601, for example, consider the Corvair auto conversion...there are several
601 builders in a fairly advanced stage of this installation, including William
Wynne, who is sort of the guru of this particular engine-conversion for
experimental aviation applications.
If you are considering the 601, peruse this site carefully as one alternative to
an expensive Rotax or Jabiru or Lycoming:
http://www.flycorvair.com/
Dan Vandenberg in Chicago...frequently in western Mich too
Dan Sherburn <dsherburn@charter.net> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn"
Hi,
I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
of ownership got too expensive.
I've started to research the Homebuilt industry and am fairly excited
by what I see, especially within the Zenith offering. I would love the
prospect of building and being able to design the panel and interior of
my airplane. Being able to do my own maintenance would be a big
plus, as I love doing those things.
The only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended engines.
The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info. on the Rotax
912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor, etc.
Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want anything
unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the $30,000
figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
Great list....thanks in advance for the information and opinions!
Dan Sherburn
Spring Lake, MI
---------------------------------
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand <masterbogun@yahoo.com>
Don't get started with building a kit unless you have that much money set aside
for engine and instrument panel
wizard-24@juno.com wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> TheAny only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended
> engines. The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info.
on the
> Rotax 912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor,
> etc. Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives?
Ok, I'll be the first to ring in on this one....check out the possibility
of the Corvair conversion. Should cost you less than $5K for everything
firewall forward, assuming you can work on engines. In fact, if my guess
is correct a FWF offering probably isn't that far off in the future.
Check out http://www.corvaircraft.com/ where you can, among other things,
join the corvair email list (lots of good folks there). There's also a
link somewhere to William Wynne's site.
Assuming you don't want to tinker with engines, then you're left with
spending lots more bucks. In fact, I was settled on the jabiru 3300
($15K+ for everything), but ultimately decided that the $10K+ of savings
was worth giving the Corvair a shot. There are lots of good choices
(which I suppose is one of the benefits of the 601) ranging from auto
conversions to fully certified aircraft engines -- it just depends on
your budget.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
---------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
Dan
I'm considering the Corvair. Alot of guys are using them in the zodies.
William Winn "The Corvair Authority" himself is building an XL as a demo
platform for his Corvair conversion.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Prospect and Engine ?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Sherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
> Hi,
> I just joined the list and the EAA. I'm an instrument rated private
> pilot, but haven't flown in 9 years. I got out of the sport as the cost
> of ownership got too expensive.
>
> I've started to research the Homebuilt industry and am fairly excited
> by what I see, especially within the Zenith offering. I would love the
> prospect of building and being able to design the panel and interior of
> my airplane. Being able to do my own maintenance would be a big
> plus, as I love doing those things.
>
> The only thing I'm worried about, is the cost of recommended engines.
> The information kit I received from Zenith had pricing info. on the Rotax
> 912 motor. I think it was almost $15,000 with accesories, motor, etc.
> Is this the norm? Are there any lower cost alternatives? I don't want
anything
> unreliable, but if I total the kit price and motor are close to the
$30,000
> figure, I may have to consider an old C150.
>
> Great list....thanks in advance for the information and opinions!
>
> Dan Sherburn
> Spring Lake, MI
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Prospect and Engine ? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
Just pick a motor and go with it. One of the reasons I picked the 601
was because it seemed like no matter what you put in front it, it will
still fly. And it flys good. Besides I always want to do things
different.
-- Thanks
Brett Ray
owner Hog Air
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: First Timer Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Robin Gould <rgould1@ix.netcom.com>
Mick,
I also suggest your table top over hang the bottom frame by 1.5 to 2
inches or so, to allow for a edge to clamp from ("C" clamps, spring
clamps, etc.) very handy.
Also might consider 2 sets of cleco pliers, one for each side of the
work table (it seems like every time you want to use your cleco pliers,
you have left them, in a unreachable spot, on the other side of the 12
foot table!) ;-)
>
>7. make yourself a nice LEVEL table 4'X12' is the size I recommend- I also
>suggest putting onto it some hashmarks spaced at 1 inch - take a look at
>mine at http://bill.howerton.com/zodiac/zodiac_main.htm
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mick" <mickrobertss@yahoo.com>
>To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: First Timer Question
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mick <mickrobertss@yahoo.com>
>>
>>I'm about to start ordering sections and tools to start building an XL.
>>
>Any tips before I start?
>
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