---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/27/04: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:06 AM - Re: Carbs on a 912S popping off (Lowell Metz) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: Re: Carbs popping out (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 3. 04:35 AM - Re: Re: Carbs popping out (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 4. 05:30 AM - Re: January Zenith Workshop (Traveling Man) 5. 05:46 AM - Re: Shifter boot (Schemmel, Grant) 6. 06:03 AM - Re: Re: Carbs popping out (Dirk Slabbert) 7. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: Carbs popping out (Dave Austin) 8. 06:47 AM - Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? (Tony Bonsell) 9. 07:53 AM - got the rudder kit yesterday! (Jim Kepford) 10. 07:58 AM - Re: Carbs on a 912S popping off (Benford2@aol.com) 11. 08:15 AM - Re: Shifter boot for 601 (Bob Miller) 12. 08:18 AM - Re: Upholstery material (Bob Miller) 13. 08:25 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS (Bob Miller) 14. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? (MXSportPilot@aol.com) 15. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? (Jim Kepford) 16. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? (Jarek M. Walter) 17. 11:19 AM - Center Stick Boot Info (Bill Morelli) 18. 11:31 AM - Carbs on a 912S popping off (Dave Alberti) 19. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? (Leo J. Corbalis) 20. 12:33 PM - Re: Center Stick Boot Info (Wayne Glasser) 21. 03:25 PM - Re: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? (Monty Graves) 22. 04:52 PM - Center Stick Boot, upholstery, Dynon D10 (Gary Liming) 23. 05:41 PM - Re: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? (Randall Stout) 24. 05:51 PM - Boot Photos (billvt@together.net) 25. 06:15 PM - Primer question (Mick) 26. 07:47 PM - Re: Boot Photos (Frank Jones) 27. 07:51 PM - 701 in Northern California? (Jeffrey Kember) 28. 07:53 PM - Re: Primer question (Bill Howerton) 29. 08:22 PM - First Flight 601XL (Weston and Judy Walker) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:50 AM PST US From: "Lowell Metz" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carbs on a 912S popping off --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" Peter, Every thing on the engine is just like it came out of the box and I followed the installation manual to the letter. The 912 S is a high compression engine and when it starts and shuts down the is a rather violent jerk that literally snaps the carbs free of their rubber mounting boots. Once running it is smooth as silk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Dunning" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carbs on a 912S popping off > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" > > Date: 27 January 2004 > > Hi Lowell, > > A couple of basic questions to clarify: > > 1. Is the 912S fitted with the common induction > manifold ? and ... (if "yes"). > > 2. Is the manifold supported according to the > installation manual ? > > rgds > > Peter Dunning > CH601HD/912S > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:55 AM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carbs popping out --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/2004 1:59:42 AM Central Standard Time, Dabusmith@aol.com writes: > >sometimes the carb pops out on start-up and sometimes it pops out when I > shut the engine down. > > Dave, A close look at the Photo Assembly Guide, Firewall Forward Installation, for the 912S, shows the carb safety wired to a fitting on the intake manifold. See at lower photo, in SEC 6, page 6 of 8. Other pages too. This is in addition to the spring from a carb screw to the hose clamp on the manifold fitting. The problem needs a solution for sure. Is this it? Or rather a field fix? Were your carbs wired in place, and still popped out? What have others done question needs more list input? Perhaps the engine list has dealt with this already? Jerry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:36 AM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carbs popping out --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/2004 5:56:25 AM Central Standard Time, JERICKSON03E@aol.com writes: > > A close look at the Photo Assembly Guide, Firewall Forward Installation, for > the 912S, shows the carb safety wired to a fitting on the intake manifold. > See > at lower photo, in SEC 6, page 6 of 8. Other pages too. > > This is in addition to the spring from a carb screw to the hose clamp on the > manifold fitting. > See ROTEX Service Instruction,,, SI - 21 - 1994. At .rotex-owner.com/sdocs.htm It calls for the safety wire of the carb. Sorry that I didn't research this first. Jerry ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:30:19 AM PST US From: "Traveling Man" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: January Zenith Workshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" Hello Lance, If it looks like the weather is going to hold I'll be there. I want to build the rudder, but more than that I want a ride in one of these things before I commit to building it! : ) I'm at the Amerihost. See you there Bob Lindley CH601-HD - Just paper on the table, for now. Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:17 AM PST US From: "Schemmel, Grant" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Shifter boot --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Schemmel, Grant" Hi Bill, I would appreciate a copy of your boot template too if you don't mind - I've never gotten around to making one yet. Thanks! Grant Schemmel grant.schemmel@aeroflex.com Time: 07:57:08 AM PST US From: "Bill Morelli" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Shifter boot for 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" Charles, I have a boot drawing that Mike Fothergill gave me a way back. My wife made me a vinyl boot from a template made from Mikes drawing. I came out very nice. I'll send you a direct e-mail with the template drawing and a couple of photos of my finished boot. Bill > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:10 AM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carbs popping out --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" This does'nt sound too good, perhaps something to do with a different cam overlap, or advanced ignition on the 912 S ? especial if its the same carb all the time. Or does it shake out ? Dirk. ----- Original Message ----- From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carbs popping out --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/2004 5:56:25 AM Central Standard Time, JERICKSON03E@aol.com writes: > > A close look at the Photo Assembly Guide, Firewall Forward Installation, for > the 912S, shows the carb safety wired to a fitting on the intake manifold. > See > at lower photo, in SEC 6, page 6 of 8. Other pages too. > > This is in addition to the spring from a carb screw to the hose clamp on the > manifold fitting. > See ROTEX Service Instruction,,, SI - 21 - 1994. At .rotex-owner.com/sdocs.htm It calls for the safety wire of the carb. Sorry that I didn't research this first. Jerry ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:40 AM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Carbs popping out --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" I'd be interested to know if you have the Rotax air intake box installed, or just a filter on the back of the carbs. What sort of filter? How heavy? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? From: Tony Bonsell --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Bonsell Hi Guys! I too am agonizing over engines for my 701. Here is a link to an 80 hp vw-based kit. Anybody have any comments on vw conversons? http://www.aeroconversions.com And Leo, why does it matter what prop/rpm you have for slow flight? > Flying SLOW in a 701 calls for a BIG prop, turning slower. ****************************************************** Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications 535 Cragg Road, RR #3 Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3 Voice: 905.852.3848 Fax: 905.852.0652 http://www.luxuria.com ****************************************************** ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:23 AM PST US From: Jim Kepford Subject: Zenith-List: got the rudder kit yesterday! --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford Did about 5 hours on it last night, only 1000 or so more to go! Have some pictures on my website. http://www.snowy91.com/ch_701/rudder_assembly.htm Jim Kepford --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:38 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carbs on a 912S popping off --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/2004 4:07:44 AM Mountain Standard Time, lowellmetz@earthlink.net writes: > > Peter, > Every thing on the engine is just like it came out of the box and I > followed the installation manual to the letter. The 912 S is a high > compression engine and when it starts and shuts down the is a rather violent > jerk that literally snaps the carbs free of their rubber mounting boots. > Once running it is smooth as silk > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Dunning" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carbs on a 912S popping off > > Sounds like it could use a slightly heavier flywheel. Maybe a small support on the float bowl will help stabilize it during this violent event of starting or shutting down ? Ben Haas do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:09 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Shifter boot for 601 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Bill, Could you add me to the list of people wanting that email of the boot template and photo? Thanks, Bob Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Morelli" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Shifter boot for 601 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" > > Charles, > > I have a boot drawing that Mike Fothergill gave me a way back. My wife made > me a vinyl boot from a template made from Mikes drawing. I came out very > nice. > > I'll send you a direct e-mail with the template drawing and a couple of > photos of my finished boot. > > Bill > > > > Does anyone have a good source for the Control Yoke flexible boot? > > The control cable runs very high and the yoke has a lot of throw so it > > makes it a little more difficult to come up with a good match. Thanks > > everyone. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:36 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Upholstery material --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Larry, Have you considered the kind of vinyl they use in boats? It's supposed to hold up well UV. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Upholstery material > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > Hi List, > I'm at a stage on the foam seats > that a decision needs to be made on the upholstery. > I like leather, but worry that it will be too hot in the summer > sun and deteriorate like any other hard surface. A velour fabric > on my wife's 91 Honda has worn like iron and it might be a better > selection if not less expensive. I see some of you have used > fabrics and some smooth surface materials as well. My upholsterer > wants to do thin leather but I'm not convinced. > I'd be very interested in seeing your opinions on this. > > Thanks again, > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:16 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dynon EFIS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Jack, All I can say is I just received mine (UPS guy left it in a white box in the snow about 500' from my house!). My decision was based on searches of Matronics archives, with all positive feedback except one problem that I recently found out about but don't yet understand. It has to do with ""the EDC is transmitting considerable RFI back up to the D-10 via the EDC power feed. The noised is then passed along by the D-10 out the main power and keep-alive feeds to the avionics bus." Unfortunately I didn't note the source of this info, and it's Greek to me, but would recommend you contact Dynon about it. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Russell" Subject: Zenith-List: Dynon EFIS > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell > > Howdy folks: Any one familiar with the Dynon Efis-d10? If it works well it would take care of all flight instruments including a Blind encoder with one screen. Would save a bundle of money too. Any comments? Web site for company below. > Jack Russell > > http://www.dynondevelopment.com/docs/efis-d10.html > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:41 AM PST US From: MXSportPilot@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? --> Zenith-List message posted by: MXSportPilot@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/2004 9:46:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, tbonsell@luxuria.com writes: > Here is a link to an 80 hp > vw-based kit. Anybody have any comments on vw conversons I know someone who flys a Cygnet with a VW on it...he tells me there is no such thing as an 80hp VW? Anybody else? ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:58 AM PST US From: Jim Kepford Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford This article called "The christmas engine" is by far the best one on the subject on how much power you can get from a VW. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=20021225044132.00912.00000242%40mb-fk.aol.com&rnum=1 Jim MXSportPilot@aol.com wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: MXSportPilot@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/2004 9:46:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, tbonsell@luxuria.com writes: > Here is a link to an 80 hp > vw-based kit. Anybody have any comments on vw conversons I know someone who flys a Cygnet with a VW on it...he tells me there is no such thing as an 80hp VW? Anybody else? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:53 AM PST US From: "Jarek M. Walter" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter" The Great Plains aircraft http://www.greatplainsas.com/ has a number of different engine kits based on VW type 1 and 4 block and depending on configuration (direct drive or reduction drive) and the size of the engine (1600 up to 2400) HP varies in the range from 50 to 100. I'm not sure what to think about them. Would be nice to hear other opinions. Jarek M. Walter CH701 - 1% done ----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MXSportPilot@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? --> Zenith-List message posted by: MXSportPilot@aol.com In a message dated 1/27/2004 9:46:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, tbonsell@luxuria.com writes: > Here is a link to an 80 hp > vw-based kit. Anybody have any comments on vw conversons I know someone who flys a Cygnet with a VW on it...he tells me there is no such thing as an 80hp VW? Anybody else? == == == == ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:02 AM PST US From: Bill Morelli Subject: Zenith-List: Center Stick Boot Info --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Morelli I posted the boot drawing and a couple of photos on my web site. Go to web address below, select construction then select center stick boot Click on thumbnails to enlarge. To save file, right click on enlarged photo and select Save Picture As. Select where you want to save it. Regards, Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 300.9 flight hrs. - 414 landings, (1 ON ICE!!) web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ | ---=( )=--- 0 0 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:42 AM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: Zenith-List: Carbs on a 912S popping off --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" How are you supporting the airbox? I made a bracket that attaches to the firewall. No problem to date. Dave ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:25 AM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" > And Leo, why does it matter what prop/rpm you have for slow flight? > > > Flying SLOW in a 701 calls for a BIG prop, turning slower. The prop efficiency depends on moving the most air as slowly as possible to the rear. 3300 rpm requires a smaller prop to avoid Mach 1 scream, causing excessive drag and excessive anti airport agitation. Actually you don't need to go all the way to Mach 1 as the air going the long way around the airfoil shaped blade gets there at about .85 M. A slower turning prop, that's why PSRUs are so popular, matches the prop to the airplane by moving more air at a slower speed. Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators, visit your airport shoppe, has more than we want to know about it. I'm a retired USAF pilot but am willing to recognize good work by our allies (U.S. NAVY) Leo ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:50 PM PST US From: "Wayne Glasser" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Center Stick Boot Info --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" Bill The only image that I can get to work is the left hand one. The middle one comes up with an invalid address and the right hand one will not even show a thumbnail Regards Wayne Glasser Sydney - Australia CH601-XL 5075 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Morelli" Subject: Zenith-List: Center Stick Boot Info > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Morelli > > I posted the boot drawing and a couple of photos on my web site. > > Go to web address below, select construction then select center stick boot > > Click on thumbnails to enlarge. To save file, right click on enlarged photo > and select Save Picture As. > > Select where you want to save it. > > Regards, > Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 300.9 flight > hrs. - 414 landings, (1 ON ICE!!) > web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ > > | > ---=( )=--- > 0 0 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:39 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Gene Smith of Valley Engineering will also build a person a VW engine, test fly it for them including the Redrive (the same one Great Plains sells for them) and Culver prop all as a package deal. Contact info is on Gene's web page. It will be comparable in price to the Great Plains engines, but you get to fly your engine, in Genes Plane, un bolt it, and take it home, ready to bolt on yours. http://www.culverprops.com/ IMHO a direct drive VW for the 701 is a poor choice. I believe the 1915 VW with redrive will turn out to be large enough for the 701 and even the cheaper 1815 cc VW with redrive might be as well. As far as I know there aren't any VWs flying in 701's at present, but should be soon. Monty At 02:15 PM 1/27/04 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter" > >The Great Plains aircraft http://www.greatplainsas.com/ has a number of >different engine kits based on VW type 1 and 4 block and depending on >configuration (direct drive or reduction drive) and the size of the >engine (1600 up to 2400) HP varies in the range from 50 to 100. I'm not >sure what to think about them. Would be nice to hear other opinions. >Jarek M. Walter >CH701 - 1% done > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Bonsell Hi Guys! I too am agonizing over engines for my 701. Here is a link to an 80 hp vw-based kit. Anybody have any comments on vw conversons? http://www.aeroconversions.com And Leo, why does it matter what prop/rpm you have for slow flight? > Flying SLOW in a 701 calls for a BIG prop, turning slower. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:37 PM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Zenith-List: Center Stick Boot, upholstery, Dynon D10 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming I made a stick boot from some really soft deer skin. Photos & description on www.liming.org/ch801/console.html Also, I have an old Honda, and I ended up using the same tough fabric for my upholstery. There is a company in Springfield MO that sells auto fabric that my upholsterer used. Contact info on www.liming.org/ch801/final.html also, I've mounted my Dynon D10 and have most of the wiring done. Also, I've hooked it up and done some table flying with it - it looks great. I chose the flush mount option and I think its worth it. Also, unless you're building a composite aircraft you'll need the compass module. Pictures of the panel mounting on www.liming.org/ch801/instruments3.html Hope that helps, Gary Liming ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:38 PM PST US From: Randall Stout Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: 701 80 or 100 HP? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Randall Stout Jarek I had one of these on my Zodiac. Personally, I think the HP rating is a bit over stated. I don't have anyway to actually measure it, so that's just my opinion. If you look back in the archives on the AirVW list, you will find comments from those who know much more about VW's than do. They will tell you that the VW heads are incapable of cooling 100 hp. That doesn't mean that they cannot make 100hp or even more. You just can't stay there for more than a couple of minutes. The ones with the redrive on them can get you off the ground in a hurry. They just don't pull you along very fast. This may be good for a 701, but it comes up lacking for a 601. Randy Stout San Antonio TX http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 "Jarek M. Walter" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter" The Great Plains aircraft http://www.greatplainsas.com/ has a number of different engine kits based on VW type 1 and 4 block and depending on configuration (direct drive or reduction drive) and the size of the engine (1600 up to 2400) HP varies in the range from 50 to 100. I'm not sure what to think about them. Would be nice to hear other opinions. Jarek M. Walter CH701 - 1% done ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:22 PM PST US From: "billvt@together.net" Subject: Zenith-List: Boot Photos --> Zenith-List message posted by: "billvt@together.net" Apparently there is something wrong with the two boot photos I posted on my web site. Sorry about that. I'll check it out as soon as I get a chance. Regards, Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:53 PM PST US From: Mick Subject: Zenith-List: Primer question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mick How many clean and prime each piece before assembly? Is this necessary? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:58 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Boot Photos --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Bill, FWIW I had no problems viewing the pictures. Frank Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:59 PM PST US From: Jeffrey Kember Subject: Zenith-List: 701 in Northern California? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeffrey Kember I'm thinking of building a 701 and would like to know if there is anyone flying in Northern California? I have searched the Zenithair site and found a number of builders, but no one that is flying yet. I'm also interested in hearing about off airport adventures. What are the practicalities / realities of landing on state land along the coast? Has anyone adventured to Mexico and landed on the beach? I live in San Francisco and don't want to fly the 701 from paved airport to paved airport. Thanks, Jeff do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:00 PM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" >How many clean and prime each piece before assembly? Is this necessary? I do! And yes I firmly believe it is necessary. I spent 20 years in the Air Force - ten of which was spent flying in the back end of C-130's ( a plane which went into production in the mid 1950's). Even in the deepest bowels of that aircraft you would see that every nook and cranny hade been painted. And those planes never rusted - at least I never saw any corrosion. Furthermore, my father used to work for both Lockheed and Northrop putting the skins on airplanes- again every single part was given full corrosion protection. And while I've heard all the arguments against it, there is no way I'd ever build an airplane in which I didn't cover every square inch of metal with some type of primer (either Zinc Chromate or automotive primer) Additionally, I make sure I've done a good job of deburring my holes, and I also always prepare the aluminum by 1. cleaning with laquer thinner and/or MEK; 2. scuffing the surface with a scrunge pad; 3. applying Alumadyne (Phosphoric Acid) to etch-prime the metal; 4. Applying my primer It may be allot of extra work, but I guarantee you'll NEVER find any rust on my airplane. Bill ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:54 PM PST US From: "Weston and Judy Walker" Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston and Judy Walker" This afternoon I successfully completed the first flight of my 601XL powered by a Jabiru 3300. All went well, though I have a significantly heavy left wing to troubleshoot. Thanks to the help many of you on the list have given--and you haven't even known--the archives are invaluable. A picture is available at http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/Weston/ Or at the EAACentennial Homebuilt http://www.eaa.org/homebuilders/list/Zenith%20Zodiac%20CH%20601%20XL_Wal ker.asp#TopOfPage Thanks to the super support from Zenith and from Pete at JabiruUSA. Keep building; your day will come! Weston Walker