---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/29/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:32 AM - Re: Upholstery recommendations likes and dislikes (Thomas F Marson) 2. 05:33 AM - Re: Upholstery recommendations likes and dislikes (Bryan Martin) 3. 05:38 AM - Re: First Flight 601XL (Thomas F Marson) 4. 08:33 AM - Re: 601XL Builders (Dave Kubassek) 5. 10:17 AM - problems (Leo J. Corbalis) 6. 11:17 AM - Strato - EMS - E2... (Bima, Martin) 7. 11:44 AM - N601RT Seat Information (royt.or@netzero.com) 8. 11:44 AM - CH601 or CH701? (Jeff Page) 9. 12:42 PM - Re: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto (caspainhower@aep.com) 10. 01:17 PM - Re: N601RT Seat Information (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 11. 02:05 PM - Re: Upholstery recommendations likes and dislikes (Frank Jones) 12. 09:19 PM - Engines... (Jarek M. Walter) 13. 10:45 PM - Re: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto (Jeff Paden) 14. 10:47 PM - CH-640 builders (Jeff Paden) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:55 AM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Upholstery recommendations likes and dislikes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" Use Corfoam (Like Oregon Aero for crash safety ultimately but for most comfort. A well designed cushion like this actually makes you flight less painless as it your bottom is conformed to by the seat rather than the other way around. You actually fly better as one with the plane rather than sitting separate from it on a soft giving mass as standard upholstry will feel. Personally I like any non slippery material. Never liked Leather, plastic or anything of that Ilk. The Oregon Aero catalog will tell you why NASA, Airforce and almost 100 percent of Professional Aerobatic pilots wouldn't fly without it. I started using it 3 years ago and would not be without it. It is the foam not the the cover that does it. Tom Marson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Zenith-List: Upholstery recommendations likes and dislikes > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" > > I am at the point where I'm ready to start the design of the interior. My > father in law, a very talented professional upholsterer, has graciously > agreed to take on the job. He has taken several measurements, pictures, and > made a number of cardboard templates. > > So now the question comes up: What do you guys recommend? > > I've read postings about velour, leather, marine vinyl and standard > material. I've heard you guys talk about this padding vs. that padding. > this carpet vs. that one; and on and on and on. But usually these > conversations simply discuss the issue in terms of adherence to FAA > regulations. > > And yet, no one ever seems to pony up, and give their honest assessment of > what's good, what's bad; what they like, and what they dislike. So I would > appreciate it if you could give any input. > What would you like in your interior? > What features would you like to see, and what would you avoid? > What about materials? Why would you select one over the other? Why would > you avoid one over the other? > And can ANYONE decifer the FARs into something that approximates English as > they pertain to toxicity, smoke production, and flame retardance? > > I would especially appreciate hearing from the older guys whose planes are > already in the air, so we can all learn from your experience. > > Thanks! > > Bill Howerton N714BH > 601XL - Corvair > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Upholstery recommendations likes and dislikes From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 1/29/04 1:37 AM, Bill Howerton at Bill@Howerton.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" > > I am at the point where I'm ready to start the design of the interior. My > father in law, a very talented professional upholsterer, has graciously > agreed to take on the job. He has taken several measurements, pictures, and > made a number of cardboard templates. > > So now the question comes up: What do you guys recommend? > > I've read postings about velour, leather, marine vinyl and standard > material. I've heard you guys talk about this padding vs. that padding. > this carpet vs. that one; and on and on and on. But usually these > conversations simply discuss the issue in terms of adherence to FAA > regulations. > > Bill Howerton N714BH > 601XL - Corvair > I bought some sound insulation material from J. C. Whitney. The stuff is designed for use under carpeting in autos and is supposed to be fire retardant. It is composed of a half inch layer of shredded cloth glued to a sheet of aluminum foil. I lined the entire cockpit area with this stuff including the back of the firewall and the top skin ahead of the canopy. It should quite the cabin and make it easier to heat for winter flying. I haven't done anything to the baggage area yet but I will probably line it with this stuff also. My dad had some heavy black vinyl material that I used on the cabin floor. I tested it and it seems to be fire resistant and doesn't give off any noxious fumes when held in a flame and allowed to char. I bought a leather hide from an E-bay auction and have lined the cockpit interior with this. I have enough left to do the baggage area if I decide to. I decided on leather because it is naturally flame retardant and is fairly easy to work with. I do have some polyethylene foam in my cockpit and this foam is flammable but doesn't give off toxic fumes when it burns and it will be covered with the leather for protection. I would not use leather on my seats though. I don't think leather seats are very comfortable. Vinyl is just as bad and doesn't wear as well. I would recommend cloth seats. An automotive seat fabric should work, I believe they are required to be flame retardant also. Even most furniture upholstery materials are supposed to be flame retardant I believe. I bought a set of sheepskin seat covers off E-bay which I plan to use on my seats. If you are worried about flammability just take a sample of the material and test it. It shouldn't support combustion and shouldn't give off toxic fumes. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Nearly done. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:29 AM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight 601XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" This bungee idea is not a new one but is a very good solution to cancel the need to hold left or right stick for a slightly heavy wing. It is simple light weight and minimal cost. Using the Mac servo for this purpose works well but is overkill for what is needed. I do not feel that way about elevator trim however. If elevator connections should fail the bungee on the elevator mechanism will not prevent "buying the farm". In this case the only thing that will give you a chance to save your life it the ability to control the elevator itself by other means, ie: a moveable trim tab on the elevator. Tom Marson ----- Original Message ----- From: "barry mayne" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight 601XL ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:22 AM PST US From: "Dave Kubassek" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" Mark pardon my ageing memory but i believe i fished mine up and tucked them under the top longeron LHS and on to panel and starter. dave kubassek. C-FDSF XL - 25 hrs and waiting for spring ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Builders > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca> > > XL Builders, how did you run all of your wires from the battery/elevator > trim/rudder light up to the control panel? I didn't want to run the > wires along the side of the fuselage by the passenger seat and I don't > dare cut a hole in the center section of the spar. > > Mark Townsend > 601XL EA-82MPFI Turbo > Alma, Ontario > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:37 AM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Zenith-List: problems --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" I have a Zodiac 601HDS, 400 hrs, ROTAX 912 UL I just finished finding a very sneaky intermittent ignition failure problem. I think we could really help each other by giving a detailed account of the trouble and solution. My problem was an intermittent roughnes and later a really bad "mag" check on 2 differient flights that I could not find when trouble shooting later. Eventually I got to a condition where one ignition system was dead. The culprit was a break in the red stranded wire from the alternator to the module. I had exchanged these leads and the trouble went away for a while and I tried module swaps and pickup swaps hunting for the problem. Finally I was doing an ohmmeter check on everything and got erratic readings on one of the red wires. I recalled an A&P's remark that when he worked on Rotaxes, most of the trouble was with the stranded wiring. I found that pushing the wire into the connector, the ohmmeter reading settled down, pulling gently brought back the erratic readings. I pulled harder and felt the last strand break, verified by the ohmmeter. As the wire strands broke the current to the ignition module dropped causing intermittent erratic operation of the sparkplugs. The cure: I cut off the connector and replaced it with a similar female auto connector.(prying the tabs on the old connector caused one tab to break off, (recycling the old connector is a BAD idea. Soldering is not a option because of the short space and high vibration) I needed a short piece of high quality stranded wire so I bought the cheapest POMONA (manufacturer of high grade test leads) test wire and cut out the wire I needed to put on the crimped connector and a crimped splice plus a small loop for strain relief. 2 tiewraps hold everything together and minimize vibration. The choice of hi grade test lead gave me a very multistranded wire with tough insulation. Cheap test leads need no apply! also 18 gage Tefzel wire from Aircraft Spruce doesn't have enough strands for me. I also added clips to the cut ends and have 2 more test leads. Leo J. Corbalis ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:17 AM PST US From: "Bima, Martin" Subject: Zenith-List: Strato - EMS - E2... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" For those of you who run the Stratomaster EMS... Is the panel easily disconnected and removed? What kind of connections are there from the panel to the computer? It was -40 this morning and if I bought one of these handy-dandy's, I would like to keep it warm and safe on days like these. Thanks, Martin Bima STOL-Vair Winnipeg, Canada 15% complete Strato - EMS - E2... For those of you who run the Stratomaster EMS... Is the panel easily disconnected and removed? What kind of connections are there from the panel to the computer? It was -40 this morning and if I bought one of these handy-dandy's, I would like to keep it warm and safe on days like these. Thanks, Martin Bima STOL-Vair Winnipeg, Canada 15% complete ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:04 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: N601RT Seat Information From: royt.or@netzero.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com I have Oregon Aero seats in N601RT. These are covered with the same leather covering Jerry VanGrunsvens RV-8 Oregon Aero seats. (I bought the leather from Jerrys wife.) The leather is light gray and I have not found it to be excessively hot, I do believe black or other dark colored leather would be hotter. My primary reason to get the Oregon Aero seats is safety. I believe the Oregon Aero seats will provide significant protection in the event of a crash. The Oregon Aero web site addresses this. See http://www.oregonaero.com/p101112_2001.html Note: The RV-10 will be sold ONLY with the Oregon Aero seats for the front because in the RV-10 front seats are directly over the spar and there is other structure to absorb impacts as in the other RV's. Richard "Van" VanGrunsven is adamant about using the Oregon Aero seats which were engineer for the RV-10 in the plane. ("Van" is very active in my local EAA chapter.) I don't think my seats were specifically engineered to protect against xxG's, but I do believe they will offer more protection than anything else I would have done. I'm VERY HAPPY with my Oregon Aero seats. The seats are very comfortable. I flew to OSH this year (from HIO, outside of Portland, Or.) and flew 20 hours in two days on my return. One leg was almost 5 hours. I was never uncomfortable in the plane. They are a great company to work with. The seats are not cheap. They are not light either, but I don't know the specific weight of mine. My seats are leather covered and I think I have ~$1500 in the seats. Every time my wife flies with me she comments that she is glad I spent the extra $'s on the Oregon Aero seats. I've flown in two other Zodiac's and would not want to fly much more than an hour in either of them. They both had "minimum expense" seats. Oregon Aero was concerned about the narrow hip angle in the CH601, so they raised the seat bottom as high as practical (limited by headroom with headset). My passenger seat has an additional ~1.5inch thick cushion for my wife and other shorter passengers. For tall passengers, I use the "booster cushion" remove the standard seat back and use a small lumbar support. Oregon Aero made the lumbar support and booster cushion for no extra charge, they also made my stick boot (a couple of times) for no extra charge. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 160hrs. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:38 AM PST US From: Jeff Page Subject: Zenith-List: CH601 or CH701? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff Page Hello fellow Zenith fans, Ive been lurking on this list for a few weeks while doing a bunch of research on which plane to select for my first homebuilt project. I have two missions: 1) Saturday morning solo flying around home base (KVSF). 2) Monthly ~100 nm two passenger cross county trips. I would like to plans build in aluminum utilizing pulled rivets. I will be doing most of my building in the evening in my basement workshop where noisy riveting, welding smoke, or noxious epoxy fumes are sure to elicit complaints from my wife and put a halt to my building. As I see it there are two current Zenith designs that could fit my needs; Zodiac XL and CH 701. I really like the Zodiac XL, but am concerned that looking down at the wing on my Saturday morning solo flights will get old. The CH 701 with the new bubble doors would be perfect for my Saturday mornings, but the slow cruise speed would be inconvenient for my cross country trips. Im planning to go to Sun N Fun and check out the Zenith models their, but April feels a long way off and I would sure like to buy a set of plans to keep me busy through some of these long dark Vermont winter nights. So, after that long winded diatribe, my real question is this; does anyone have a flying (or close to flying) CH 701 or CH 601 within a 200 miles or so of Windsor, VT that they would be willing to let me see and sit in? Thanks much, -Jeff Page __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto From: caspainhower@aep.com 01/29/2004 03:38:58 PM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com Ed, I will be receiving my 0-235 soon and am interested in installing CDI in place of at least one magneto. I was wondering if you could send me pictures of your "lightspeed" ignition installation. The weight savings is a bonus as I have read a lot of good things about the performance increases with electronic ignition. Any suggestions or tips are always appreciated. Thanks! Craig S. 601XL, N601XS "Ed" Sent by: To: owner-zenith-list-server@ma cc: tronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto 04/06/2003 01:22 PM Please respond to zenith-list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed" Hi Jim. I went with CDI ignition on my Lycoming 0-235, partly for weight but mainly as the mags that came with it were not good (no core value either) I bought the "lightspeed" system from Klaus at Santa Paula Airport and used the crank sensor which just blanks off the mag mounting altogether. Actually ended up with a dual system and have been very impressed with it's performance. (Plugs are cheaper too). He has a website which is worth reading through, many advantages with the system, not least of which is starting with two sparks as opposed to mags with just one. I have pics of the installation if you are interested, contact me off list. Ed 601hds do not archive This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:08 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N601RT Seat Information So you didn't like my cheapo seats Roy?....I'm hurt....:) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" I must say I agree with you, the cheepo seats (and remember I went to quite a bit of expense buying wheelchair "memory foam" having been told this was the best) didn't turn out great. I limit my flying to about 2 to 2.5 hours and get out of the plane somewhat stiff. My Wife too complains that there is no way we're taking long cross country trips in this thing! As for me I would rather invest the money in the RV 7 project she has promissed to let me start next year. But if that turns out to be a pipe dream I will almost certainly turn to Oregon Aero seats. Thanks for the update, I was amazed you went all the way to OSH in one of these! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of royt.or@netzero.com Subject: Zenith-List: N601RT Seat Information --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com I have Oregon Aero seats in N601RT. These are covered with the same leather covering Jerry VanGrunsvens RV-8 Oregon Aero seats. (I bought the leather from Jerrys wife.) The leather is light gray and I have not found it to be excessively hot, I do believe black or other dark colored leather would be hotter. My primary reason to get the Oregon Aero seats is safety. I believe the Oregon Aero seats will provide significant protection in the event of a crash. The Oregon Aero web site addresses this. See http://www.oregonaero.com/p101112_2001.html Note: The RV-10 will be sold ONLY with the Oregon Aero seats for the front because in the RV-10 front seats are directly over the spar and there is other structure to absorb impacts as in the other RV's. Richard "Van" VanGrunsven is adamant about using the Oregon Aero seats which were engineer for the RV-10 in the plane. ("Van" is very active in my local EAA chapter.) I don't think my seats were specifically engineered to protect against xxG's, but I do believe they will offer more protection than anything else I would have done. I'm VERY HAPPY with my Oregon Aero seats. The seats are very comfortable. I flew to OSH this year (from HIO, outside of Portland, Or.) and flew 20 hours in two days on my return. One leg was almost 5 hours. I was never uncomfortable in the plane. They are a great company to work with. The seats are not cheap. They are not light either, but I don't know the specific weight of mine. My seats are leather covered and I think I have ~$1500 in the seats. Every time my wife flies with me she comments that she is glad I spent the extra $'s on the Oregon Aero seats. I've flown in two other Zodiac's and would not want to fly much more than an hour in either of them. They both had "minimum expense" seats. Oregon Aero was concerned about the narrow hip angle in the CH601, so they raised the seat bottom as high as practical (limited by headroom with headset). My passenger seat has an additional ~1.5inch thick cushion for my wife and other shorter passengers. For tall passengers, I use the "booster cushion" remove the standard seat back and use a small lumbar support. Oregon Aero made the lumbar support and booster cushion for no extra charge, they also made my stick boot (a couple of times) for no extra charge. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 160hrs. advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:43 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Upholstery recommendations likes and dislikes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Bill, For what it's worth I really like my Temperfoam seats. Made with 3 different densities. They are quite comfortable once they warm up but pretty damn solid at -20C. I'd like to believe they absorb a lot of energy on hard landings too as they purport. A design can be found at www.seatfoam.com. I found Wicks to be the cheapest source though. Frank ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:50 PM PST US From: "Jarek M. Walter" Subject: Zenith-List: Engines... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter" Today I went into circle..It started when I read that BMW engines are good choices for homebuilt. Soon I cooled down.They are good, but cost a lot. Again, back to Rotax 912. Talk to friend complaining about the cost.He said that he can get me a Rotax from snowmobile..He said it's basically the same engine at fraction of price.I don't believe him.Started to research a Bombardier site. Soon I discover that they are offering the marvelous 4-TEC V-1000 on snowmobiles. I learned that it's top of the art engine, developed quite recently. More research.Google.One of the Russian web sites mentioned that Bombardier supplies the same engine to BMW for the new line of Aprilia motorcycles sold in Europe. Haven't heard of Aprilia.So Google for "BMW Aprila"..Bingo!!! More that 100HP. So Guys, what's your opinion on this? Can anyone provide more information on Rotax 4-TEC V-1000 for aviation use? Jarek M. Walter CH 701 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:14 PM PST US From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Lycoming engine mount / magneto --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" My I suggest that you take a look at the Electroair system by Jeff Rose at: http://www.fly-gbi.com/EIS.htm I looked at may different electronic ignitions and found that this system is MUCH easier to install, cheaper, and you can use aircraft plugs instead of auto plugs. Just my opinion, but it seems like a all around better system. His web page is not pretty, but if you give him a call I think you will agree that he really knows what he is doing. Jeff Paden >> I will be receiving my 0-235 soon and am interested in installing CDI >> in place of at least one magneto. I was wondering if you could send me >> pictures of your "lightspeed" ignition installation. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:15 PM PST US From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Zenith-List: CH-640 builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" I just wanted to let you all know that my CH-640 project is finally looking like an aircraft! If there are other CH-640 builders out there I'd really like to hear from you. At this time I only know of three other CH-640 builders but I am sure there are more of you out there Jeff Paden