---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/31/04: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:18 PM - Re: Zenitn List: Carbs on 912s Popping Off (Jim Fosse) 2. 06:18 PM - Re: Zenith List Re: 701 80hp or 100hp (Jim Fosse) 3. 06:45 PM - Re: N601RT Seat Information (Brenton Battles) 4. 07:06 PM - Re: Re: Zenith List Re: 701 80hp or 100hp (Chuck Deiterich) 5. 07:14 PM - Re: Carbs Popping off (Jeff Reuschle) 6. 08:17 PM - want to buy (k.jones) 7. 08:24 PM - Re: Carbs Popping off (CBRxxDRV@aol.com) 8. 08:27 PM - Re: CH601 or CH701? (Kevin W Bonds) 9. 09:08 PM - Re: heavy left wing - some possible solutions (Kevin W Bonds) 10. 10:06 PM - Re: want to buy (Robert Hillebrand) 11. 10:15 PM - Re: heavy left wing - some possible solutions (Kevin W Bonds) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:42 PM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenitn List: Carbs on 912s Popping Off --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" I'm a new guy on the block and I don't pretend to be an expert on hardly anything, especially the Rotax. However, thought I would throw this in for whatever it's worth. I just returned from Zentith and building my rudder for a 701. In talking to Roger I mentioned the traffic I had been reading about the carbs. He indicated he had not heard anything about the problem but suggested that if a slipper clutch is not part of the 912s assembly, the engine will shake and shimmy as described in numerous of the messages. I have noted in all the traffic that there is no mention of the slipper clutch but that's not to say that they are not installed on the affected engines. Jim Fosse jfosse1@shawneelink.net Goreville, Illinois ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:42 PM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith List Re: 701 80hp or 100hp --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" I'm a long ways from needing an engine for the 701 that I ordered but I'm really scratching my head trying to sort out what will and what will not work for the 701. While at Zenith this week I asked both Roger and Chris about the Jab 2200 and both said they would not recommend it. The gist of the conversation was that it could not handle the right prop for the 701's advertised performance. I was encouraged by Chuck Deiterich's experience with the 2200 and the Prince P-Tip 64" prop while at the same time wondering whether Leo Corbalis's commentary was favorable or unfavorable for that set up. I appreciate the expertise that exists out there on the List and would surely welcome more commentary. For instance, Jabiru lists the Sensenich W58HJ and the W62HJ for the 2200 on the 701. Will anyone venture a commentary on those match ups? Whatever is out there will be appreciated. Jim Fosse jfosse1@shawneelink.net Goreville, Illinois ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:17 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N601RT Seat Information From: Brenton Battles --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles FWIW I've been delighted with the seats I made out of two densities of common foam at a total cost - including fabric - of about $40. I've had several trip legs of over 4 hours in my 452 total hours and was ready to fly again after a short pit stop. For more info and pictures, you can visit my website and go to the "Construction Process" link: http://www.flappingpappy.com/zodiac/hangar.html If you have any trouble finding the section on seating or would like more info, please contact me off-line. Regards, Brent N16BZ 601HD ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:06 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith List Re: 701 80hp or 100hp --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Jim, Here is a note I sent to off-line an inquiry. ZAC has a three bladed prop on their 701 with a diameter not much more than the effective diameter of my Prince P-Tip prop(2 blades). If they were concerned about diameter they would use a longer two bladed prop. As long as the pitch matches the RPM and the tips stay enough below the speed of sound, I can't see any difference. I cruise at 2750 RPM and about 75MPH. My engine is smooth and quiet, has no gear box and no water system to worry about. I did all of my firewall forward design. I worked with Jabiru after getting the offsets from ZAC for Jabiru to design and build a mount. I got a two piece nose bowl from Jabiru and made my own cowl from .016 aluminum. PIX at http://members.thegateway.net/cfd . Electrical installation was a piece of cake as was most of the installation after quite a bit of thought. Chuck D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Fosse Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith List Re: 701 80hp or 100hp > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" > > I'm a long ways from needing an engine for the 701 that I ordered but I'm really scratching my head trying to sort out what will and what will not work for the 701. While at Zenith this week I asked both Roger and Chris about the Jab 2200 and both said they would not recommend it. The gist of the conversation was that it could not handle the right prop for the 701's advertised performance. I was encouraged by Chuck Deiterich's experience with the 2200 and the Prince P-Tip 64" prop while at the same time wondering whether Leo Corbalis's commentary was favorable or unfavorable for that set up. I appreciate the expertise that exists out there on the List and would surely welcome more commentary. For instance, Jabiru lists the Sensenich W58HJ and the W62HJ for the 2200 on the 701. Will anyone venture a commentary on those match ups? Whatever is out there will be appreciated. > > Jim Fosse jfosse1@shawneelink.net Goreville, Illinois > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:29 PM PST US From: "Jeff Reuschle" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carbs Popping off --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Reuschle" Lowell, When I purchased my 912S for the 701 it was recommended that I get the slipper clutch because of strong vibrations that have occured with the 701 mount. As was explained to me, they occurred around 4000-4500 rpm. I am just about to start mine up so I haven't yet experienced the problems you have had. Do you know if your engine has the slipper clutch installed? I talked to Phil Lockwood at Lockwood Aviation and he said other planes had experienced this vibration also. They didn't mention carbs shaking off. However, I know that this was a problen with another 701 here inGeorgia that had a 912 engine. Rotax came up with that strong spring loaded keeper that runs to the carb to prevent this from occurring. One other thing to check is the preload on the mount bushings. I compressed mine to the specs but expect to check them again once I have run the engine some. Good Flying, Jeff Reuschle 701/912S Atlanta, GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Metz" Subject: Zenith-List: Carbs Popping off > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" > > List, > Thanks to Shay King's suggestion I think I have got a fix that will keep the carbs from leaving their sockets. > After 4 different methods using ties I found that taking two ties and crossing them from intake manifold flange to carb flange ( such as it is ) in an X pattern and tightening them they seem to stay put. I did several start-ups and shut downs , one start up being a rather sharp snap, nothing moved. By the way, safety wire the top springs that go to the cross over tube. I lost one and they are just shy of $9.00 plus shipping. > One more thing I did was to clean the rubber boots well and wiped some fan belt dressing on the inside . It is not a gooey glue but adds " grab" to the rubber. It may or may not help but thought I would try it. > Before I fly I am going to do several more cycles of start-up and shut down to test things out . I assume I will need both carbs in place for a successful flight :-) > > Lowell Metz > 701 / 912S > Venice, FL. > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:10 PM PST US From: "k.jones" Subject: Zenith-List: want to buy --> Zenith-List message posted by: "k.jones" Does anyone have a partly built Zenith kit for sale. I'll take it off your hands. Kevin Jones ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:59 PM PST US From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carbs Popping off --> Zenith-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com In a message dated 1/31/04 10:14:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, jreuschle@mindspring.com writes: > Do you know if your engine has the slipper clutch installed? I talked to > Phil Lockwood at Lockwood Aviation and he said other planes had experienced > this vibration also. I was at a flyin today with Phil Lockwood and talked with him about this becasue of this thread. The clutch is the fix. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:07 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH601 or CH701? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Jeff and all else I just returned from Mexico, MO. . . .WOW! I had so much fun. I built my rudder and bought my plans (XL). I too struggled with the Question of the 701 vs XL. And I still am not sure which I should have chose. But, I have the plans for the XL now so here goes! I guess the deciding factor for me was that William Wynn is building a corvair powered XL and I would like the option of using the corvair--since it's possible that I may not win the lottery in the next 4-5 years like I plan. To you and anyone else "Lurking" on this list do yourself a big favor and travel to Mexico, MO and attend the workshop!!! Everyone there was so helpful. We all got free rides in the demo planes. Someone got a free hat (not mentioning any names. . . Bob). Someone else got a little scrap metal (me). A couple of the sheetmetal fabricators even took time to talk to us plansbuilders and allowed a few of us to actually form ribs (special thanks to those guys). I got the feeling that anything I asked they would have done for me (I finally stopped asking for extras for fear I was taking advantage of their kindness and most stuff I didn't even ask for, they offered!). I mean they really rolled out the red carpet for us--even us poor scratch builders! Actually they never asked me my method of building and never asked me to buy anything other than my rudder. . . . . . . (long pause)Hmmm I wonder. . .(short pause) naw that would have been to much! They let us just mill around the factory unincumbered to bother any of there gracious employees we wanted to (hope there insurance agent doesn't read that). Anyway, these people make awesome planes! It sounds clich but, these guys really care about there customers. I know we here that all the time but, in this case it does apply. I really can't get over how nice everyone was. I've always heard this about ZAC and now I know why. . . its true! Oh yeah, and did I mention their planes are great too. And now I know I've made the right choice about what plane to build. I'm convident ZAC will be there for me over the next 4 or 5 years and beyond. Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn 601XL Plansbuilder (ooooo. . .that sounds cool) Rudder complete; 97.3% to go. P.S. This was my first post as a genuine builder. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Page" Subject: Zenith-List: CH601 or CH701? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jeff Page > > Hello fellow Zenith fans, > > Ive been lurking on this list for a few weeks while > doing a bunch of research on which plane to select for > my first homebuilt project. > > I have two missions: > > 1) Saturday morning solo flying around home base > (KVSF). > > 2) Monthly ~100 nm two passenger cross county trips. > > I would like to plans build in aluminum utilizing > pulled rivets. I will be doing most of my building in > the evening in my basement workshop where noisy > riveting, welding smoke, or noxious epoxy fumes are > sure to elicit complaints from my wife and put a halt > to my building. > > As I see it there are two current Zenith designs that > could fit my needs; Zodiac XL and CH 701. > > I really like the Zodiac XL, but am concerned that > looking down at the wing on my Saturday morning solo > flights will get old. > > The CH 701 with the new bubble doors would be perfect > for my Saturday mornings, but the slow cruise speed > would be inconvenient for my cross country trips. > > Im planning to go to Sun N Fun and check out the > Zenith models their, but April feels a long way off > and I would sure like to buy a set of plans to keep me > busy through some of these long dark Vermont winter > nights. > > So, after that long winded diatribe, my real question > is this; does anyone have a flying (or close to > flying) CH 701 or CH 601 within a 200 miles or so of > Windsor, VT that they would be willing to let me see > and sit in? > > Thanks much, > -Jeff Page > > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:13 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing - some possible solutions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Quick Question I know this depends on build quality but assuming for a moment that all is perfect (no laughs please), How much of a heavy left wing problem can I expect to have flying solo taking into account that I and my wife are lightweight people (I'm about 160#s; she about 135#s)? Im anticipating putting maybe the battery and other stuff on the leftside to make up for the 25# weight diffrence between us --maybe overshooting a bit anticipating using some trim when solo and some the other way when she's with me. how does this sound (ie. a slightly heavy right side when two up)? I'm not there yet but am thinking about these sort of things (maybe overthinking). Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:30 PM PST US From: Robert Hillebrand Subject: Re: Zenith-List: want to buy --> Zenith-List message posted by: Robert Hillebrand how about a 701? "k.jones" wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "k.jones" Does anyone have a partly built Zenith kit for sale. I'll take it off your hands. Kevin Jones --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:39 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing - some possible solutions --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" "Im anticipating putting maybe the battery and other stuff on the leftside to make up for the. . ." Ooops I mean rightside. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: heavy left wing - some possible solutions > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" > > Quick Question > > I know this depends on build quality but assuming for a moment that all is > perfect (no laughs please), How much of a heavy left wing problem can I > expect to have flying solo taking into account that I and my wife are > lightweight people (I'm about 160#s; she about 135#s)? Im anticipating > putting maybe the battery and other stuff on the leftside to make up for the > 25# weight diffrence between us --maybe overshooting a bit anticipating > using some trim when solo and some the other way when she's with me. how > does this sound (ie. a slightly heavy right side when two up)? I'm not there > yet but am thinking about these sort of things (maybe overthinking). > > Kevin Bonds > Nashville Tn > 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! > >