---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/04/04: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 10:52 AM - Center stick boot update. (Bill Morelli) 2. 11:42 AM - Forming Blocks (Stuart Riley) 3. 12:39 PM - Re: 601 gear (Brenton Battles) 4. 12:53 PM - Re: 601 gear (Michel Therrien) 5. 01:29 PM - Re: 601 gear (Rick Pitcher) 6. 02:15 PM - Re: 601 gear (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 7. 03:17 PM - First Flight (Lowell Metz) 8. 03:39 PM - Re: Forming Blocks (Steelframe AUS) 9. 03:53 PM - Re: First Flight (Mark Stauffer) 10. 03:56 PM - Re: First Flight (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 11. 04:03 PM - Re: First Flight (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 12. 04:37 PM - Re: First Flight (Bill Cardell) 13. 04:38 PM - Re: First Flight (Michel Therrien) 14. 05:02 PM - Sheet metal quantity, supplier question (Traveling Man) 15. 05:21 PM - Re: First Flight (Larry McFarland) 16. 05:35 PM - Re: First Flight (Arthur Nation) 17. 06:17 PM - Zodiac 601 parts available (gpjann@juno.com) 18. 06:19 PM - Re: Sheet metal quantity, supplier question (Kevin W Bonds) 19. 06:20 PM - Bending Brakes (AJ) 20. 06:21 PM - Re: Sheet metal quantity, supplier question (Kevin W Bonds) 21. 06:24 PM - Re: First Flight (AJ) 22. 07:10 PM - Sheet Aluminum supplier (Richard Brown) 23. 07:19 PM - Re: First Flight (Frank Jones) 24. 07:20 PM - Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins (Mark Stauffer) 25. 08:00 PM - Re: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins (Joemotis@aol.com) 26. 08:33 PM - Re: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins (Mark Stauffer) 27. 08:40 PM - Re: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins (Joemotis@aol.com) 28. 08:42 PM - No Smile Flap (RURUNY@aol.com) 29. 09:37 PM - Re: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins (Jack Russell) 30. 09:46 PM - Re: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins (Jack Russell) 31. 09:47 PM - Re: No Smile Flap (Arthur Nation) 32. 10:32 PM - Re: No Smile Flap (Benford2@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 10:52:45 AM PST US From: "Bill Morelli" Subject: Zenith-List: Center stick boot update. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" Kelly Meiste was kind enough to supply a CAD drawing (embeded in an Excel spreadsheet) of Mike Fothergill's original boot drawing. I added this Excel spreadsheet to my web site. Go to the web site below, select "construction", select "center stick boot", left click on the link "BOOT Excel CAD.xls" link to see the cad drawing or right click on the link to save the Excel file to your system. Regards, Bill (N812BM - HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 300.9 flight hrs. - 414 landings, (1 ON ICE!!) web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:05 AM PST US From: "Stuart Riley" Subject: Zenith-List: Forming Blocks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stuart Riley" I'm in the process of scratch building a 601XL. I've finished the tail feathers and am ready to start on the wings. I wonder if there is anyone on the list that has finished their XL wings and may have a set of forming blocks and/or templates that they would be interested in loaning/renting/selling. I suspect building the forming blocks will be as time consuming as actually forming the ribs. Thanks Stu Riley do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 gear From: Brenton Battles --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles Before installing the bungee gear on my HD I was a bit apprehensive as a result of reading posts on this list. I found the process to be straightforward aided by a simple tool which I'm sure I didn't invent but which you can view at the link to "Construction Process within my website: http://www.flappingpappy.com/zodiac/hangar.html Regards, Brent Battles N16BZ 452 hrs ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:27 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien True, I copied on your idea when I installed mine. Installing the bungees and gear legs was really not a problem: http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01552.jpg Michel --- Brenton Battles wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brenton Battles > > > Before installing the bungee gear on my HD I was a > bit apprehensive as > a result of reading posts on this list. I found the > process to be > straightforward aided by a simple tool which I'm > sure I didn't invent > but which you can view at the link to "Construction > Process within my > website: > > http://www.flappingpappy.com/zodiac/hangar.html > > Regards, > Brent Battles N16BZ 452 hrs > > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:34 PM PST US From: Rick Pitcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher Michel Therrien wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > True, I copied on your idea when I installed mine. > Installing the bungees and gear legs was really not a > problem: > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01552.jpg > > Michel Another variation of the same theme. I drilled 4 holes in the forming block for the rear bulkhead and used the all-thread rod that I bought for the aileron pushrods to compress the bungees before bolting the whole assembly in place http://www.lightflyers.com/compress.jpg Waste not, want not :) Rick P. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:18 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Since we are on labour saving ideas, I have a simpler way to compress the bungees. Use 2 C clamps (called G clamps if your from England) 6" clamps work fine, you hook one clamp at the front and one at the back between the base of the gear box and under the flat plate of the gear leg. The C clamp would be upside down..... Works great and you don't have to make anything. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Pitcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 gear --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Pitcher --> Michel Therrien wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > True, I copied on your idea when I installed mine. > Installing the bungees and gear legs was really not a > problem: > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601/images/Dcp01552.jpg > > Michel Another variation of the same theme. I drilled 4 holes in the forming block for the rear bulkhead and used the all-thread rod that I bought for the aileron pushrods to compress the bungees before bolting the whole assembly in place http://www.lightflyers.com/compress.jpg Waste not, want not :) Rick P. advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:28 PM PST US From: "Lowell Metz" Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" List, N 891 VF , my CH701 with a 912 S flew this evening for the first time. I only spent .3 hours in the air as I could see some sea fog moving inland just north of me and didn't want to do an instrument approach ( grin ). I am only 1 mile inland off the Gulf of Mexico and my take-off took me to the shore line where I did a shallow turn and kept climbing and circling the airport to 1,500 feet. The controls are light and very responsive. After I sleep on it I'll take it up and start checking things out. This evening was just fly the plane, fly the plane. The landing was not that pretty as I cut the power a little early and then added some back in to get the flair I wanted but I didn't drop it in. So much for the anxiety of the first flight. It is behind me and now I can start to enjoy the ship. Lowell Metz Venice FL. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:49 PM PST US From: "Steelframe AUS" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Forming Blocks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steelframe AUS" Stu, Yes it takes 10 time longer to make the blocks than it does to make the ribs. Ron Saarinen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Riley" Subject: Zenith-List: Forming Blocks > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stuart Riley" > > I'm in the process of scratch building a 601XL. I've finished the tail > feathers and am ready to start on the wings. I wonder if there is anyone on > the list that has finished their XL wings and may have a set of forming > blocks and/or templates that they would be interested in > loaning/renting/selling. I suspect building the forming blocks will be as > time consuming as actually forming the ribs. > > Thanks > > Stu Riley > > do not archive > > > __________ NOD32 1.566 (20031128) Information __________ > > This message was checked by NOD32 Antivirus System. > http://www.nod32.com > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:53:56 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" Lowell, Outstanding!!! I hope to see you at Sun-n-Fun. Congratulations! Mark Stauffer 601XL Working on wings with incorrect skins Do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:29 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" I grin as I remember the experience! Congratulations! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Metz Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" --> List, N 891 VF , my CH701 with a 912 S flew this evening for the first time. I only spent .3 hours in the air as I could see some sea fog moving inland just north of me and didn't want to do an instrument approach ( grin ). I am only 1 mile inland off the Gulf of Mexico and my take-off took me to the shore line where I did a shallow turn and kept climbing and circling the airport to 1,500 feet. The controls are light and very responsive. After I sleep on it I'll take it up and start checking things out. This evening was just fly the plane, fly the plane. The landing was not that pretty as I cut the power a little early and then added some back in to get the flair I wanted but I didn't drop it in. So much for the anxiety of the first flight. It is behind me and now I can start to enjoy the ship. Lowell Metz Venice FL. advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:07 PM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" So much for the anxiety of the first flight. It is behind me and now I can start to enjoy the ship. > Lowell Metz ++ Savor the feeling Lowell, only a few people in the world can say that they constructed their own aircraft, and experienced it's flight !!! Congrats. Fred Hulen do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:00 PM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell congrats! Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Lowell Metz [mailto:lowellmetz@earthlink.net] Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" List, N 891 VF , my CH701 with a 912 S flew this evening for the first time. I only spent .3 hours in the air as I could see some sea fog moving inland just north of me and didn't want to do an instrument approach ( grin ). I am only 1 mile inland off the Gulf of Mexico and my take-off took me to the shore line where I did a shallow turn and kept climbing and circling the airport to 1,500 feet. The controls are light and very responsive. After I sleep on it I'll take it up and start checking things out. This evening was just fly the plane, fly the plane. The landing was not that pretty as I cut the power a little early and then added some back in to get the flair I wanted but I didn't drop it in. So much for the anxiety of the first flight. It is behind me and now I can start to enjoy the ship. Lowell Metz Venice FL. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:15 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Congragulation! I intend to bring my project to the airport during march and expect first flight in April.... but somebody else is going to do it for me. That must be an exciting moment to fly your creation for the 1st time. Michel > -----Original Message----- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" > --> > > List, > > N 891 VF , my CH701 with a 912 S flew this > evening for the first > time. ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:46 PM PST US From: "Traveling Man" Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet metal quantity, supplier question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" Hello list. I'm getting set to put together a buy list for sheet metal for my plans built 601-HD, and before I start re-drawing layouts on 4 x 12 sheets in my computer to see how much of what I'm going to need, I thought I'd ask here and see if anyone has a buy list (Bill of Material) for a 601-HD. Additionally I recall seeing something about a place here in the States (Yard?) that had good prices on aluminum, but I can't seem to locate it in the archives. I'd also be happy to discuss renting or purchasing rib forming blocks from anyone who has done this successfully and no longer needs theirs. Any help is appreciated. Bob Lindley CH601-HD - Now I got a rudder! 4% down, 96% to go! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:26 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" > > List, > > N 891 VF , my CH701 with a 912 S flew this evening for the first time. I only spent .3 hours in the air as I could see some sea fog moving inland just north of me and didn't want to do an instrument approach ( grin ). So much for the anxiety of the first flight. It is behind me and now I can start to enjoy the ship. > > Lowell Metz > Venice FL. Congratulations Lowell, As much fun as you had putting it together, this has got to give you the best sense of accomplishment. Very pleased to hear it went well. My 601s going to the airport sometime in March Hope to fly a month or two later after putting a few more hours in sharpening flying skills. Do fly safe, Larry McFarland Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:22 PM PST US From: Arthur Nation Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Arthur Nation On Wednesday 04 February 2004 15:50, Mark Stauffer wrote: Hi Mark, Would you please give more details on "incorrect skins" do not archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" > > > Lowell, > > Outstanding!!! I hope to see you at Sun-n-Fun. Congratulations! > > Mark Stauffer > 601XL Working on wings with incorrect skins > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiac 601 parts available From: gpjann@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: gpjann@juno.com Zodiac 601 parts. I have the following parts which I would like to sell or trade. Let me know if your interested 6E2-1 left & right Canopy lock assembly 6F7-2 left & right Engine Mount Fittings 6F7-3 left & right Engine Mount Fittings Greg Jannakos gpjann@juno.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:25 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet metal quantity, supplier question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Bob Its Yarde metals. www.yarde.com/ Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Traveling Man" Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet metal quantity, supplier question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" > > Hello list. > > I'm getting set to put together a buy list for sheet metal for my plans > built 601-HD, and before I start re-drawing layouts on 4 x 12 sheets in my > computer to see how much of what I'm going to need, I thought I'd ask here > and see if anyone has a buy list (Bill of Material) for a 601-HD. > > Additionally I recall seeing something about a place here in the States > (Yard?) that had good prices on aluminum, but I can't seem to locate it in > the archives. I'd also be happy to discuss renting or purchasing rib > forming blocks from anyone who has done this successfully and no longer > needs theirs. > > Any help is appreciated. > > Bob Lindley > CH601-HD - Now I got a rudder! > 4% down, 96% to go! > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:46 PM PST US From: "AJ" Subject: Zenith-List: Bending Brakes --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AJ" Hi, I'm a new member and would like to say Hello to all. I'm going to build the 701 from scratch and I need some input. I don't have the plans in hand as of yet but I've started to do my tool research and was curious how many parts actually require you to have 8' bending brake to form them? Are there any bends that are longer than 8'? I know Larry Mcfarland has plans to build one if necessary I Just want to determine the most cost effective method to fabricate. Art Olechowski 701 Rudder and a half ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:34 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sheet metal quantity, supplier question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Bob BTW Scott Laughlin is sending me full size Templates of all ribs for XL. :) $55.00 the cost of printing. Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Traveling Man" Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet metal quantity, supplier question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" > > Hello list. > > I'm getting set to put together a buy list for sheet metal for my plans > built 601-HD, and before I start re-drawing layouts on 4 x 12 sheets in my > computer to see how much of what I'm going to need, I thought I'd ask here > and see if anyone has a buy list (Bill of Material) for a 601-HD. > > Additionally I recall seeing something about a place here in the States > (Yard?) that had good prices on aluminum, but I can't seem to locate it in > the archives. I'd also be happy to discuss renting or purchasing rib > forming blocks from anyone who has done this successfully and no longer > needs theirs. > > Any help is appreciated. > > Bob Lindley > CH601-HD - Now I got a rudder! > 4% down, 96% to go! > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:41 PM PST US From: "AJ" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "AJ" Congradulations Lowell, you must be proud. I can only dream of the day. Art Olechowski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Metz" Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" > > List, > > N 891 VF , my CH701 with a 912 S flew this evening for the first time. I only spent .3 hours in the air as I could see some sea fog moving inland just north of me and didn't want to do an instrument approach ( grin ). I am only 1 mile inland off the Gulf of Mexico and my take-off took me to the shore line where I did a shallow turn and kept climbing and circling the airport to 1,500 feet. The controls are light and very responsive. After I sleep on it I'll take it up and start checking things out. This evening was just fly the plane, fly the plane. The landing was not that pretty as I cut the power a little early and then added some back in to get the flair I wanted but I didn't drop it in. So much for the anxiety of the first flight. It is behind me and now I can start to enjoy the ship. > > Lowell Metz > Venice FL. > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:53 PM PST US From: "Richard Brown" Subject: Zenith-List: Sheet Aluminum supplier --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard Brown" Dear list: In response to the question for sheet metal suppliers(Yarde metals) to be exact, please try this link. About.com:http://yarde.com/index.html This company seems to have everything; however I am still waiting for a reply on my request for a quote. They provide you with a form to fill out for all the metal you want, and you submit it online. Regards, Dick Brown ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:10 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Congratulations Lowell. Like Michel is planning, I had a "pro" take my 601XL up for the first flight, but joined him shortly after. What a great feeling it is to both build and fly it. I just got my unrestricted airworthiness cert last week and took my son up as my first real passenger. It was a thrill for us both. Take your time getting comfortable with the aircraft in the first few flights and happy flying. Frank Jones C-GYXQ 601XL 912S Ottawa ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:44 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: Zenith-List: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" In response to Arthur's question below. It seems that my kit (sn 4999) and another (sn 5000) were shipped with the bottom wing skins pre-drilled incorrectly. (It makes sense, I'm sure they drill stacks of skins at a time.) It seems that the drilling jig was not square to the leading edge causing all the pre-drilled holes on both bottom skins to skew from the trailing edge to the leading edge. At the trailing edge, RR1 is 93mm from the inboard edge. At the leading edge, RR1 is 98mm from the inboard edge. This in turn causes you to have to pull the bottom flange of the rib farther and farther over to match the pre-drilled holes the closer you get to the leading edge/main spar. All the while the top flange of the rib stays perpendicular to the leading edge. It also means that your nose rib rivet lines will not line up with you rear rib lines. While that in itself may not be a problem it will look like crap. No, I'm not building a beauty queen or show winner, I'm just trying to build a good airplane. I am concerned that I am inducing stress or pre-stressing the ribs. I had a builder of a beautiful RV tell me years ago, "if you're having to force it to fit than it probably isn't right, nor is it good for the parts involved." Unfortunately, stupid me went blindly ahead and drilled the bottom side. Only when I started working on the nose skin did I really notice the problem. At that point it's very blatant that something is wrong. It took me awhile to figure out that those line were not square to the leading edge. It came from the factory, it has to be right, right? Also unfortunate is that I (nor the other builder) have not been able to get ZAC to understand the problem. They acknowledge that the rivet line doesn't seem right but then they say the ribs don't have to be square to the leading edge. Well, the plans show that it's supposed to. I also don't like the fact that I'm torquing the ribs. I can understand budging parts a mm or 2 but 5 or 6? They haven't given me or the other builder any other options as of yet other than to go forward with what we've got. From what I can get from ZAC, as long as the wing has no twist it's not a problem. To be blunt it frustrates me that every other XL kit got correct skins, so why should I have to deal with a wrong part. I really hope that ZAC comes through on this one. Then I have to figure out what I can salvage from the parts that I stupidly drilled. If I ever do get correct bottom skins then I'll have to replace the lower spar cap, all the ribs and possibly the rear channel. I don't mind this, I just want it to be right. On a side note, I jigged the wing using the old method and the new and improved method, it still turns out the same. Everything is level and square as the manual states and as the plans show. Bottom line, check your pre-drilled holes against the plans. I didn't and I will be paying the price in both time and money. Mark 601XL, Tail completed, working on wings. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Nation Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Flight --> Zenith-List message posted by: Arthur Nation On Wednesday 04 February 2004 15:50, Mark Stauffer wrote: Hi Mark, Would you please give more details on "incorrect skins" ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:19 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Mark Sorry to hear about your problem, hope it turns out for the best. I do have a question for you though. You mentioned the Manual. I have ordered the wings, fuselage and plans for my 601XL and recieved the prints and CD so far . I printed out the photo guides for same and could not find on the CD the step by step construction manual that I thought that I would be recieving, similar to the step by step directions that I printed off the ZAC website for the rudder. I contacted Shirley at ZAC and she said the CD was all you get. Is there a manual? like the rudder one on the CD or, did it come with your wing order? Sorry to bother you with my silly concern and crossing my fingers that all turns out allright for you. Joe Motis 601XL still waiting for the big box Do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:53 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" Joe, I attended the rudder course in Nov '02. While there I bought the construction manual and plans, and at that point they assigned a serial number to me (I ordered the kit the next month). The construction manual was just that, a three ring binder with instructions similar to what I followed at the rudder class. I didn't know that they had gone to a CD. I've re-read you message. I guess you could call it more of a photo guide than step by step instructions. How 'bout a photo guide with helpful hints?? That may be more like it. Between that and the plans, I haven't had to bug the factory too much. I will tell you though that I've pretty much downloaded the newest version of the construction manual/photo guide from the web site every step of the way. It has proven to be very helpful. I hope I wasn't too negative about this wing problem. Yes, I'm frustrated but I've had great fun building this airplane so far and hopefully this will be a problem that both ZAC and I can overcome. The only other major problem I've had is building the ailerons. The ailerons supplied did not measure out the same as the drawings (watch the distance from the trailing edge to the leading edge of the hinge). Jack Russell in CA tried to warn me but I didn't understand what he was trying to tell me. When you get to that point and something doesn't seem right e-mail me and I'll tell you what I did. It worked out great for the second (and third) aileron that I built! ;-) Regards. Mark 601XL N996XL (reserved) and a long way till I get to use it!! ;-) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Mark Sorry to hear about your problem, hope it turns out for the best. I do have a question for you though. You mentioned the Manual. I have ordered the wings, fuselage and plans for my 601XL and recieved the prints and CD so far . I printed out the photo guides for same and could not find on the CD the step by step construction manual that I thought that I would be recieving, similar to the step by step directions that I printed off the ZAC website for the rudder. I contacted Shirley at ZAC and she said the CD was all you get. Is there a manual? like the rudder one on the CD or, did it come with your wing order? Sorry to bother you with my silly concern and crossing my fingers that all turns out allright for you. Joe Motis 601XL still waiting for the big box Do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:38 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Thanks Mark You know, this list is one of the reasons that I am building. So many people willing to share their trials, tribulations and experiences. Thanks again Joe ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:57 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: No Smile Flap --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Ken, Try Gary Limings web page for his 801. Lots of good info on what you're looking for. This is a link to the "Frisby-Hass No Slot Flaperon". http://www.liming.org/ch801/FHNSF.html His home page http://www.liming.org/ch801/ Brian http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/ Anyone have plans for a flaperon control hinge for the 701 (instead of cutting the smile in the fuselage)? ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:39 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell If anyone wants to see what Mark is talking about on the bottom skin you can look at my poor website. You have to keep scrolling down to page 3 and there is a picture of the skin problem. Just don't all look at once. Since I don't pay any extra for this site I think Yahoo only lets a couple of snoopers on a time. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:50 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Incorrect Bottom Wing Skins --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell If anyone wants to see what Mark is talking about on the bottom skin you can look at my poor website. You have to keep scrolling down to page 3 and there is a picture of the skin problem. Just don't all look at once. Since I don't pay any extra for this site I think Yahoo only lets a couple of snoopers on a time. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:40 PM PST US From: Arthur Nation Subject: Re: Zenith-List: No Smile Flap --> Zenith-List message posted by: Arthur Nation On Wednesday 04 February 2004 20:42, RURUNY@aol.com wrote: Brian, I can't find anything but one page on his website. Is this all? Arthur do not archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com > > Ken, > > Try Gary Limings web page for his 801. Lots of good info > on what you're looking for. > This is a link to the "Frisby-Hass No Slot Flaperon". > > http://www.liming.org/ch801/FHNSF.html > > His home page > http://www.liming.org/ch801/ > > Brian > > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/bunruh/ > > > Anyone have plans for a flaperon control hinge for the 701 (instead of > cutting the smile in the fuselage)? > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:21 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: No Smile Flap --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 2/4/2004 10:48:28 PM Mountain Standard Time, anation@w-link.net writes: > > > On Wednesday 04 February 2004 20:42, RURUNY@aol.com wrote: > > Brian, > I can't find anything but one page on his website. Is this all? > Arthur > > do not archive > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com > > > > Ken, > > > > Try Gary Limings web page for his 801. Lots of good info > > on what you're looking for. > > This is a link to the "Frisby-Hass No Slot Flaperon". > > > > http://www.liming.org/ch801/FHNSF.html > > > > His home page > E mail me directly and I will fill you in on the details. The FNSF work great. Ben Haas N801BH