Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: Canopy adhesive again (Michel Therrien)
2. 06:01 AM - Re: 2SI Engines (john kunkle)
3. 06:13 AM - Re: Re: 2SI Engines (Jarek M. Walter)
4. 06:23 AM - Re: Canopy adhesive again (Carlos Sa)
5. 07:33 AM - Inspections for XL? (DEGlass1@aol.com)
6. 08:54 AM - Re: Inspections for XL? (Cy Galley)
7. 09:50 AM - Re: 601XL/O-235 (Dave Kubassek)
8. 09:52 AM - Test Message ()
9. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: VW in a 701 (ALEMBIC7@aol.com)
10. 10:06 AM - Re: Test Message (Carlos Sa)
11. 10:09 AM - Re: Canopy adhesive again (Dave Kubassek)
12. 10:25 AM - Saw (Carlos Sa)
13. 10:32 AM - Re: Sheet Aluminum supplier (P M Condon)
14. 10:35 AM - Re: Test Message (Beckman, Rick)
15. 10:54 AM - Re: Saw (Michel Therrien)
16. 10:57 AM - Re: Saw (Ron DeWees)
17. 11:48 AM - Re: That problem turtle-deck-skin double-curve area! (Bryan Martin)
18. 12:07 PM - Re: Saw (Carlos Sa)
19. 12:33 PM - Re: 601XL/O-235 (Frank Jones)
20. 01:09 PM - Re: Saw (Beckman, Rick)
21. 01:55 PM - Re: That problem turtle-deck-skin double-curve area! (Larry McFarland)
22. 05:56 PM - Re: Saw (Brett Ray)
23. 05:59 PM - Re: Saw (Ken Szewc)
24. 06:01 PM - 601 aft upper skin problem (George Swinford)
25. 06:25 PM - Re: Saw (Scott Laughlin)
26. 08:22 PM - Re: Re: Saw ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy adhesive again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I attached the outside flashing to the canopy with a
couple of screws (as far back as viable). Then, for
the rest, I used GOOP. If I had thought about the
GOOP before, I would not have used screws.
Michel
--- Larry McFarland <larrymc@qconline.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
> <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Hi List,
> Well I've procrastinated long enough and the rubber
> trim
> has to be glued to the canopy. That isn't so
> challenging,
> but the little patch on each side of the rear edge
> where
> the rubber trim is only holding onto aluminum is
> curious.
> What do you do there? And what does one do about
> getting the aluminum and the acrylic to stay
> together
> in a patch that is without screws or fasteners?
> Anyone
> glue the canopy to the aluminum in this area?
> This little corner each side of the canopy is
> troubling
> and I'm sure some of you 601 builders have been
> there.
> I'd be pleased to hear what was done before the
> fact.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS and getting close....after
> 4-1/2 years...
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: john kunkle <luscombe68017@yahoo.com>
Engines are available from ZDE Engines, Flat Rock IL
Phone is 618 584 3567. Ask for Roger Zerkle. As far
as I know, he is the only one that the factory sells
aviation engines through, and you may only be able to
get the 35 and 46 hp air cooled. The 70hp is
sometimes hard to get.
Also, there is at least one 701 flying with a 690.
Check the ZAC website under engine installations. You
should be able to get a contact name.
John
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter" <jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
I contacted the factory and they are selling directly to the public
including 70HP one. It takes about 4 weeks from the time the order is placed
until the engine is shipped.
Jarek
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of john kunkle
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 2SI Engines
--> Zenith-List message posted by: john kunkle <luscombe68017@yahoo.com>
Engines are available from ZDE Engines, Flat Rock IL
Phone is 618 584 3567. Ask for Roger Zerkle. As far
as I know, he is the only one that the factory sells
aviation engines through, and you may only be able to
get the 35 and 46 hp air cooled. The 70hp is
sometimes hard to get.
Also, there is at least one 701 flying with a 690.
Check the ZAC website under engine installations. You
should be able to get a contact name.
John
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy adhesive again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, Larry
I came by this"photoshare" item yesterday, thought it might be of interest to you:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/cajole76@ispwest.com.02.01.2004/
Cheers
Carlos
> Well I've procrastinated long enough and the rubber trim
> has to be glued to the canopy. That isn't so challenging,
> but the little patch on each side of the rear edge where
> the rubber trim is only holding onto aluminum is curious.
> What do you do there? And what does one do about
> getting the aluminum and the acrylic to stay together
> in a patch that is without screws or fasteners? Anyone
> glue the canopy to the aluminum in this area?
> This little corner each side of the canopy is troubling
> and I'm sure some of you 601 builders have been there.
> I'd be pleased to hear what was done before the fact.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Inspections for XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: DEGlass1@aol.com
Please advise us (my building partner and I live 800 miles apart) on inspections:
Who does inspections, and at what stages, for an XL that is planned for LSA? We're
EAA members, too, if that would help.
Thanks-
David Glass
Forest (near Lynchburg), VA
Zodiac XL, engine yet to be chosen
Rudder, Horiz. Tail finished in Wichita
Rear fuse, firewall finished in Virginia
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Inspections for XL? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Get a EAA tech counselor that is local to the construction site to look over
the project at least three times. Pick various times in the construction
spaced out so that you can use this on the insurance application. It never
hurts to have another pair of eyes top look things over. You might even have
a project open house and invite the Chapter to have a look.
You should also contact the local Chapter for help with the first flight
from their Flight advisor. I would also strongly advise the test pilot and
the owners to get some "transition training" before they try their hand at
flying.
Please e-mail me if you need further help on this topic. The EAA is here to
help builders.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or experimenter@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <DEGlass1@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Inspections for XL?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: DEGlass1@aol.com
>
> Please advise us (my building partner and I live 800 miles apart) on
inspections:
>
> Who does inspections, and at what stages, for an XL that is planned for
LSA? We're EAA members, too, if that would help.
>
> Thanks-
> David Glass
> Forest (near Lynchburg), VA
>
> Zodiac XL, engine yet to be chosen
> Rudder, Horiz. Tail finished in Wichita
> Rear fuse, firewall finished in Virginia
>
>
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Mount battery as far aft as possible to compensate for the heavier engine.
I also am looking at adding 20 lb. steel or lead plate under battery to
allow for less trim to be used for staight and level hands off flight.
You could also look at repositioning the Horiz. stab. and acomplish the same
result. ( I would think?)
dave kubassek
C-FDSF. XL 0235
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Nation" <anation@w-link.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL/O-235
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Arthur Nation <anation@w-link.net>
>
> Hi List,
> Is anyone building the above combo? Does this engine require rear mounting
of
> the battery to obtain proper CG limits? What about the Jabiru 3300?
> Thanks,
> Arthur
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 11:52:31 -0600
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Very little traffic, 3 - 4 messages per day from the list for the last week, almost
simultaneous with my upgrading to MSN-9. Is the volume of traffic low, or
did I screw something up with my changing from MSN8 to MSN9?
I.e., hello, world, are you still out there?
Paul Rodriguez
601XL-corvair
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ALEMBIC7@aol.com
Which Jabiru please; 2200 or 3300?
AZlurker
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Test Message |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Yes, Paul, we are still here, but you are braking up...! :o)
Carlos
> Very little traffic, 3 - 4 messages per day from the list for the last week,
almost simultaneous
> with my upgrading to MSN-9. Is the volume of traffic low, or did I screw something
up with my
> changing from MSN8 to MSN9?
> I.e., hello, world, are you still out there?
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601XL-corvair
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy adhesive again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Larry
I'll forward you a picture.
I cut my rubber trim to fit front and rear of canopy.
Close canopy,run some model glue or contact cement down into crack and
allow it to set up. ( Not Too Much.... Or it will squeeze out onto your
canopy, now you have a mess!)
the rubber trim holds the metal and plexi together just fine.
dave kubassek
C-FDSF XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy adhesive again
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Hi List,
> Well I've procrastinated long enough and the rubber trim
> has to be glued to the canopy. That isn't so challenging,
> but the little patch on each side of the rear edge where
> ========================================================================
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, listers
I've been spending way too much time manually cutting and filing extrusion pieces
(e.g., bellcrank
support), and thought I'd buy a power saw.
What are your thoughts regarding band saw vs scroll saw?
I'm not quite sure which of the two would be more cost effective...
Thanks in advance
Carlos
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Sheet Aluminum supplier |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: P M Condon <pcondon@mitre.org>
I've been reading about plans built 701's in this forum and have a question. Is
there a major money saving by going this way ? Is the factory kit pre drilled
like the Vans and other manf. kit are ??
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
Very little traffic, 3 - 4 messages per day from the list for the last week,
almost simultaneous with my upgrading to MSN-9. Is the volume of traffic
low, or did I screw something up with my changing from MSN8 to MSN9?
I.e., hello, world, are you still out there?
Paul Rodriguez
601XL-corvair
Hey Paul! All is well on this site. Must be something in the
re-hook-up. I've had 25 or 30 e-mails already today. Nothing wrong with
Matronics!
Good
Luck!
Rick XL in Buckner
Do NOT Archive
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I used a circular saw to splice (cut the flanges
lenghtwise) the extrusions (if this is what you mean).
Then, a body file to smooth them (works fast).
Finishing with a smooth file and sanding paper.
Michel
--- Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
> <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello, listers
>
>
> I've been spending way too much time manually
> cutting and filing extrusion pieces (e.g., bellcrank
> support), and thought I'd buy a power saw.
> What are your thoughts regarding band saw vs scroll
> saw?
> I'm not quite sure which of the two would be more
> cost effective...
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
__________________________________
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Carlos,
I know you asked about a band saw or power saw, but I use a chop saw from
Harbor Freight that was on sale for $49 a while back. It's almost made me
quit using the band saw. You can fashion parts with the side of the 14"
blade and save a LOT of time. I use it for almost all fabrication now. It
does leave a small edge on the bottom side of the cut, but you can minimize
it by cutting slowly and use a sharp blade to cut off the excess.
Good luck
Ron DeWees
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Saw
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello, listers
>
>
> I've been spending way too much time manually cutting and filing extrusion
pieces (e.g., bellcrank
> support), and thought I'd buy a power saw.
> What are your thoughts regarding band saw vs scroll saw?
> I'm not quite sure which of the two would be more cost effective...
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: That problem turtle-deck-skin double-curve area! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 2/5/04 4:51 PM, David Barth at davids601xl@yahoo.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi List. Particularly 601 builders
> I think you STOL builders don't have this nasty issue.
>
> You know that place just over and behind the pilots
> left shoulder where the top skin over the baggage area
> has to do curve two ways at once before attachment to
> the forward curved tube and the longeron? If you have
> been there you will know what I mean. I think it has
> to be one of the trickiest areas on the 601s. Does
> anyone have any great advice on how to handle this so
> it doesn't look awful?
>
I ended up using twice as many rivets in the longeron in that area to get
rid of most of the wrinkles. This was after several hours of working the
metal with a wood block with a piece of rope under the skin in an attempt to
shrink the metal to follow the compound curve.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Nearly done.
do not archive.
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, Michel
Nice to have you back in the list.
I cut the flanges with a handheld scroller saw. Major pain, took almost one hour
to do one 8'
extrusion.
But that's not what I was talking about. There are several parts made out of thick
material, like
bellcranks and bellcrank supports. I've been cutting them with a manual saw (hacksaw??),
and then
filing and sanding the part. Time consuming (especialy with me: I seem to make
twice as many of
everything).
That's why I'm thinking of a band saw or scroll saw (table top).
Salut
Carlos
> I used a circular saw to splice (cut the flanges
> lenghtwise) the extrusions (if this is what you mean).
> Then, a body file to smooth them (works fast).
> Finishing with a smooth file and sanding paper.
>
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Dave,
The only point I would add is that you want to position the battery in
such a way as to optimize C of G. Changing the H Stab alignment
obviously does not affect C of G. In my case, I found that my C of G was
good by my H Stab alignment wasn't. The symptom was that the elevator
was not aligned with the H Stab plane during straight and level. I also
found I did not have enough nose up trim. Changing the H Stab angle of
incidence corrected this. It took about four different iterations though
to get it right. Each time with a new set of attach plates.
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ 601XL 912S
Ottawa
>Mount battery as far aft as possible to compensate for the heavier
engine.
>I also am looking at adding 20 lb. steel or lead plate under battery to
>allow for less trim to be used for staight and level hands off flight.
>You could also look at repositioning the Horiz. stab. and acomplish the
>same
>result. ( I would think?)
>dave kubassek
>C-FDSF. XL 0235
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Nation" <anation@w-link.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL/O-235
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Arthur Nation <anation@w-link.net>
>
> Hi List,
> Is anyone building the above combo? Does this engine require rear
mounting
of
> the battery to obtain proper CG limits? What about the Jabiru 3300?
> Thanks,
> Arthur
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Beckman, Rick" <Rick.Beckman@atk.com>
I've been spending way too much time manually cutting and filing extrusion
pieces (e.g., bellcrank
support), and thought I'd buy a power saw.
What are your thoughts regarding band saw vs scroll saw?
I'm not too sure about cost effectiveness, but a scroll saw
will make the material jump up and down simply because that's how it
cuts...up and down motion. A band saw, however, has a steady downward motion
to the blade...continuous...no ups, just down. It sure saves time on
cutting, too! It may cost a little more for a small band saw, but what's it
worth to NOT have to remake some parts because it 'got away from you' on a
scroll or jig type saw. Just my $.02 .
God Bless! and good luck!
Rick XL
Do NOT archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: That problem turtle-deck-skin double-curve area! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: That problem turtle-deck-skin double-curve area!
Does
> > anyone have any great advice on how to handle this so
> > it doesn't look awful?
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> Airframe construction complete.
> Panel and engine installed.
> Nearly done.
> do not archive.
Bryan,
The forward tube has to have considerably more of the bend radius
tightened at the lower 8" each side so that the tube ends arc to parallel
with
the sides. When this is done, extension of the straight sheet arc is
carried
clear down to the end and the problem is reduced to the bottom 2-3 inches.
Not noticable at this point. You can see a straight-on aligned view of the
tube radius and top skin from one side on my site at Large assembly/fuselage
to wing
middle row and down about half way. There are images of how I bent the
tubes
and got the curvature needed just using C-clamps on a table as well.
It took me more than one sheet to get this upper forward skin right and
I didn't use factory tubes because I'm a scratch builder, but you can get
there this
way.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
Band Saw!!! I would be out of biz. without one. And a belt sander for
rounding the corners. You can even use a hand one. Flip it over and
put it in a vice.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello, listers
>
>
> I've been spending way too much time manually cutting and filing
extrusion pieces (e.g., bellcrank
> support), and thought I'd buy a power saw.
> What are your thoughts regarding band saw vs scroll saw?
> I'm not quite sure which of the two would be more cost effective...
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
> _-
=======================================================================
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
-- Thanks
Brett Ray
owner Hog Air
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc <szewc@direcway.com>
Carlos,
I bought a cheap table top Ryobi bandsaw for $79. I've seen the same saw
branded under different names. I used it for cutting all the thicker
aluminum on my 701. I put a metal blade on it and it cuts aluminum like
butter and doesn't take up much room at all.
my two cents
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Saw
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> Hello, listers
>
>
> I've been spending way too much time manually cutting and filing extrusion
pieces (e.g., bellcrank
> support), and thought I'd buy a power saw.
> What are your thoughts regarding band saw vs scroll saw?
> I'm not quite sure which of the two would be more cost effective...
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Carlos
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | 601 aft upper skin problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
The area between frames B3 and B2 is hard to deal with. My solution to problems
in this area was to trim the aft upper skin back to frame B3. That way, contour
variations between the two tubular frames are not a problem. After trimming,
there was plenty of material left to skin the area between B3 and B2, with a
lap joint at B3. I made an additional joint at the top of the frames, so I was
dealing with two long, more or less triangular pieces of skin, one for each
side. I covered the joint at the top with an .025 doubler, sort of a skinny strap
about 6 inches long. At the skin joint at frame B3, my main aft upper skin
didn't quite lay down snug on the tube, so I slid the triangular skin pieces
underneath the main skin to shim it up, giving me a forward-facing lap joint.
The area just above the longeron at frame B2 laid down very nicely in my case.
If it doesn't, there is only the triangular piece of skin to remake. I believe
I did revise the contour of frame B2 in this area, to make it more nearly parallel
to the lower side skin.
I notched the forward edge of the skin at B2 in order to more easily wrap it around
the B2 tube. If I were to do it again, I would just trim it 12mm ahead of
the rivet line and cover the exposed edge with a piece of rubber molding. ( Aircraft
Spruce PN 05-01400, for example.)
George Swinford
601HD -Stratus Subaru
Airframe complete, dithering over wiring
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Ken and Carlos:
The band saw is an amazing tool. I have had one for 15 years. I also have
a DeWalt Chop saw with a carbide tipped blade. The chop saw wins when
cutting thick aluminum. Especially straight cuts true and square. The band
saw works, but aluminum will eventually gum up the blade and your butter
will become frozen butter and worse. Even with a new blade, the band saw is
not as fast or true as a chop saw. The adjustments on the chop saw are also
real nice for cutting angles.
The band saw is the obvious choice for cutting curves and patterns in wood,
plastic or aluminum. The chop saw cuts nice, flat ends to any angle.
I suggest that you get a chop saw and a band saw. (Don't buy cheap or you
will not be happy).
Good luck with your decision.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Ken Szewc <szewc@direcway.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Saw
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc <szewc@direcway.com>
Carlos,
I bought a cheap table top Ryobi bandsaw for $79.
Let the advanced features & services of MSN Internet Software maximize your
online time. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200363ave/direct/01/
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <tongaloa@alltel.net>
Can cut everything from 0.020" to 2" thick 6061-T6 with
a plain old $50 skil saw and a 18 to 24 tooth carbide tipped
blade. Do NOT get one with lots of teeth. They cost more, don't take a big enough
cut, and the chips build up. That's 18-24 teeth total, NOT per inch. Nail up
a rip fence and you can make nice long straight cuts.
-bob (not building an airplane yet, just other stuff :-)
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