---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/17/04: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:33 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (caspainhower@aep.com) 2. 05:56 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (Bob Miller) 3. 06:05 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (Scott Laughlin) 4. 06:40 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (caspainhower@aep.com) 5. 06:51 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (caspainhower@aep.com) 6. 06:57 AM - Muffler - 701 (Robert Schoenberger) 7. 07:01 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (caspainhower@aep.com) 8. 07:17 AM - Re: Muffler - 701 (dan john) 9. 07:17 AM - Re:Jabiru 3300 Vac pump pad (Gig) 10. 07:34 AM - Re: Rotax 912 starting problems (Thilo Kind) 11. 07:43 AM - Re: Muffler - 701 (Larry Martin) 12. 07:53 AM - Re: Aileron Trim & Deflection (Jeff Small) 13. 08:00 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (Scott Laughlin) 14. 08:44 AM - 801 flaperon movement (Keystone Engineering LLC) 15. 09:28 AM - Re: Muffler - 701 (Robert Schoenberger) 16. 09:46 AM - Re: 801 flaperon movement (Hal Rozema) 17. 10:01 AM - Re: venturi troubles.....solution (P M Condon) 18. 03:41 PM - Re: Re:Jabiru 3300 Vac pump pad (Joemotis@aol.com) 19. 03:46 PM - Aileron cable tension (Michel Therrien) 20. 04:17 PM - Re: Aileron cable tension (Larry McFarland) 21. 04:38 PM - Re: Aileron cable tension (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 22. 05:04 PM - Re: Aileron cable tension (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 23. 05:55 PM - Re: 801 flaperon movement (Benford2@aol.com) 24. 06:39 PM - Re: Aileron cable tension (Michel Therrien) 25. 07:15 PM - Re: Aileron cable tension (Frank Jones) 26. 07:54 PM - Re: Aileron cable tension (Michel Therrien) 27. 08:01 PM - Re: Installing 7F3-3SP Top Longeron Gusset (Herbel) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection From: caspainhower@aep.com 02/17/2004 08:33:21 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > trailing edge to prevent hanging up on rivets. Do you think .025 would be > thick enough to keep air pressure from deforming it up into the gap? I am considering aileron seals made from the .025 (based on a previous post), what I have read is critical is to make them wide enough that the edge won't pull into the gap at full deflection. February Kit Planes featured a Mustang II that the builder used Mylar to seal gaps in the wings and tail. I have heard of using mylar before, maybe ACS would carry it. Craig S. N601XS This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:55 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" If the Mylar is wide enough to cover the gap when the aileron is full upward, wouldn't it leave a big fold hanging down when the aileron is neutral? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection > --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com > > > > trailing edge to prevent hanging up on rivets. Do you think .025 would > be > > thick enough to keep air pressure from deforming it up into the gap? > > I am considering aileron seals made from the .025 (based on a previous > post), what I have read is critical is to make them wide enough that the > edge won't pull into the gap at full deflection. February Kit Planes > featured a Mustang II that the builder used Mylar to seal gaps in the wings > and tail. I have heard of using mylar before, maybe ACS would carry it. > > Craig S. > N601XS > > > This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the > Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole > use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and > privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or > distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:14 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Quote: "If the Mylar is wide enough to cover the gap when the aileron is full upward, wouldn't it leave a big fold hanging down when the aileron is neutral? Bob" Bob: I picture it being on the outside (bottom) of the surface of the wing and aileron and rubbing on the aileron in movement. This way it would seal the gap at all times. The only challenge is to keep it from "snagging" on rivets or worse the edge of the aileron at full-up position. Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection From: caspainhower@aep.com 02/17/2004 09:40:21 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >If the Mylar is wide enough to cover the gap when the aileron is full >upward, wouldn't it leave a big fold hanging down when the aileron is >neutral? It certainly seems that way. That's why I would use the .025 sheet al for the aileron gap. I have heard of using mylar gap seals but don't know the particulars. In the article it said that when the flaps were dropped a "buzzing" sound could be heard, caused by the mylar seals. The mylar may be applied at the hinges just to prevent airflow and pressure loss. I will see if I can find any details on it. Craig S. N601XS, XL - 0-235 lyc Do not archive This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:30 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection From: caspainhower@aep.com 02/17/2004 09:51:06 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >I picture it being on the outside (bottom) of the surface of the wing and >aileron and rubbing on the aileron in movement. Check out http://www.nesail.com/detail.php?productID=1152. They sell the mylar gap seal. It is in the form of an adhesive tape and applies directly to the hinges. It is flexible enough not to impede hinge movement but is completely non-permiable. I has no application for a hingeless aileron, but could be used on the flaps and elevator. Craig S. N601XS This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:53 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Muffler - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" List . . . has anyone on the list ever tried putting a Swiss Muffler on their 701 (or other) as detained in Tony Bingilis's book, Firewall Forward? I'd be interested in the results, possible loss of power, etc. Thx. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail completed, working on right wing. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:45 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection From: caspainhower@aep.com 02/17/2004 10:01:31 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >I picture it being on the outside (bottom) of the surface of the wing and >aileron and rubbing on the aileron in movement. Oops, I'm an idiot. You're right, but the tape is great for your RC plane. The mylar used for gap seals is thicker and typically clear. These sites show a KR2 with gap seals installed with links to the vendors. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/tet/as5046inst.html Craig S. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:45 AM PST US From: dan john Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Muffler - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: dan john Hap,check out this site for that muffler.http://www.jodel.com/ John ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:54 AM PST US From: Gig Subject: Zenith-List: re:Jabiru 3300 Vac pump pad --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gig Yes they have a vacuum pad and www.kellyaerospace.com has one under development that Jabiru USA thinks is going to work. The output curve on it looks like around 50 amps at 2750 RPM. I'm thinking of using it as the primary and the factory 20 amp as a back up on a second bus. Quoting an e-mail from a Kelly Aerospace e-mail: > Regarding the availability of the unit, this ES6012 and ES6224 (12 volt and 24 volt respectively) are currently in development and not yet available. We hope to have it in production by late 2004. List price is currently projected at $1,950. Gig G ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:31 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 starting problems --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi Richard, thanks. No, I'm only running mogas. But it sounds exactly like your experience. Thilo Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 starting problems > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" > > It is actually in my copy of the maintenance manual although I can't see it > in the US version that I downloaded. I also saw that figure in a posting to > this list a while back. Seems to work anyway. Are you running on Avgas? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thilo Kind" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 starting problems > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" > > > > Hi Richard, > > > > I might have the same problem: after exchanging the spark plugs I had > > trouble starting the engine. Now it is not starting at all. I also had > > magneto problems and one rough running incident. My initial thought was an > > electrical problem, but the ignition system seems to be okay. Guess, I > will > > follow your advice and check the gap of the spark plugs. Just one > question: > > how did you come up with the gap of 20 thou? > > > > Thanks > > > > Thilo Kind > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Richard McLachlan" > > To: > > Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912 starting problems > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" > > > > > > > > We have a CH601HDS fitted with a Rotax 912UL engine. It has been getting > > > progressively more difficult to start, culminating in a complete refusal > > to > > > fire at all. The problem seemed to have begun when we had to change to > > > running on Avgas, but we tried all the obvious things to no avail. > > > > > > Today after seeing a comment in the list archives, we reduced the spark > > plug > > > gaps to 20 thou. It instantly started first time . > > > > > > Hope this might help somebody else who gets the same problem. > > > > > > Richard McLachlan > > > > > > CH601/R22 > > > > > > landing site details at www.rodsley.net > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:31 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Muffler - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Hey Robert, what engine? I am using a Subaru 2.5 and plan to use supertrapps. I've done this on a RAF-2000 gyroplane and noticed a considerable improvement in performance. I put or tried to put a picture under photoshare to give you an idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Muffler - 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > List . . . has anyone on the list ever tried putting a Swiss Muffler on their 701 (or other) as detained in Tony Bingilis's book, Firewall Forward? I'd be interested in the results, possible loss of power, etc. Thx. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail completed, working on right wing. > > --- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:36 AM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim & Deflection Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:56:06 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" +++ With Bryan's OK I'm reposting this without the tag line that keeps it out of the archives. The info here is very good and often misunderstood by those getting into the building activity. Esp. note the increased drag of 'hinged' ailerons. > I do understand that the deflected control surface creates drag, but there > would sure be less drag if the control surface could be deflected without > the additional drag of an opposing trim tab. The trim tab does create some small amount of additional drag but it does have one advantage, if a control cable or linkage breaks, you can use the trim tab to control the airplane to some degree. This might make it possible to make a safe landing. > To make my device work, > springs would be required to keep the stick centered, kind of like using > springs to return rudder pedals to center. You don't really want to keep the stick centered, just balance the trim forces. If the ailerons are deflected you want the stick deflected, otherwise you may not be able to use full deflection in the other direction if needed. > I wonder how much spring > pressure would be required, and how it would affect the force necessary for > aileron control? In any event it's probably enough to undo the advantage of > using hinged ailerons. Hinged ailerons will create more drag than the hingless ones unless you take care to seal the hinge line gap. And yes, springs will affect the control forces more than a trim tab. > PS: If one has a header tank only, and for a given weight distribution, > wouldn't aileron trim would stay the same throughout all aspects of the > flight? (I'm thinking now of a ground adjustable trim tab if the spring and > threaded rod idea isn't practical.) Yes it would. Even with wing tanks, it's possible to keep the lateral CG nearly constant by switching tanks at regular intervals. An ground adjustable trim tab should work fine. Bryan Martin ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:10 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Craig and others: I have been thinking about a strip of .016 aluminum riveted to the bottom of the wing the length of the aileron using the existing rivet holes. It could be carefully bent upward (with a sheet brake) in such a way that it holds pressure against the aileron. Also, if necessary a slight bend could be made on the trailing edge (downward) to prevent it from snagging on anything. This strip of aluminum could be installed permanently between the skin and the rear channel using the existing rivet holes and painted with the wing. If you are real clever, you could cut your bottom wing skins with this piece sticking out. I am very close to this part of construction and I plan to try this soon. I will post some photos and comments on my website. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:58 AM PST US From: Keystone Engineering LLC Subject: Zenith-List: 801 flaperon movement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC Hi I have been lurking for a long time while I have been diligently been working on my 801. Thanks to Ben and Jim I have the nice no slot improvement. I highly recommend it to anyone building an 801. My problem today is I have a "rattle" in the flaperons at full deflection. It is caused by the bell crank not being aligned with the vertical control rods. It is much less evident when the flaps are down because the bell crank more closely aligns with the vertical control rods. I estimate the movement of the trailing edge is =BD". I have tightened down all the nuts as tight as I would like them to be. My IA says in time it will round out the bell crank which will create more slop and a need to replace the bell crank. With it under the back seat will be a *itch to replace the bell crank. Does or has anyone else had the problem? Or better yet a solution? Bill Wilcox Valdez, AK N801BW keystone@gci.net 97% complete only 30% to go! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:52 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Muffler - 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" Larry . . . I am considering a Rotax 912 . . . . with a horn for pedistrians who don't hear me coming! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Muffler - 701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > > Hey Robert, what engine? I am using a Subaru 2.5 and plan to use > supertrapps. I've done this on a RAF-2000 gyroplane and noticed a > considerable improvement in performance. I put or tried to put a picture > under photoshare to give you an idea. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Schoenberger" > To: "Zenith List" > Subject: Zenith-List: Muffler - 701 > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > > > > List . . . has anyone on the list ever tried putting a Swiss Muffler on > their 701 (or other) as detained in Tony Bingilis's book, Firewall Forward? > I'd be interested in the results, possible loss of power, etc. Thx. Hap > Schoenberger 701 tail completed, working on right wing. > > > > > > > --- > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:14 AM PST US From: Hal Rozema Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 flaperon movement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema Sounds like a place for Chris' shock cord tensioner? Keystone Engineering LLC wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC > > Hi > > I have been lurking for a long time while I have been diligently been working on my 801. > > Thanks to Ben and Jim I have the nice no slot improvement. I highly recommend it to anyone building an 801. > > My problem today is I have a "rattle" in the flaperons at full deflection. It is caused by the bell crank not being aligned with the vertical control rods. It is much less evident when the flaps are down because the bell crank more closely aligns with the vertical control rods. I estimate the movement of the trailing edge is =BD". I have tightened down all the nuts as tight as I would like them to be. My IA says in time it will round out the bell crank which will create more slop and a need to replace the bell crank. With it under the back seat will be a *itch to replace the bell crank. > > Does or has anyone else had the problem? Or better yet a solution? > > Bill Wilcox > > Valdez, AK > > N801BW > > keystone@gci.net > > 97% complete only 30% to go! > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:23 AM PST US From: P M Condon Subject: Re: Zenith-List: venturi troubles.....solution --> Zenith-List message posted by: P M Condon I mounted the venturi on the bottom of the airplane about 18 inches aft of the exhaust exit. Warm air from the engine compartment and exhaust along with "fast air from the normal flow of passing air was used to cause the vacuum. A thermocouple probe showed 132 degrees F. at the inlet of the large venturi. It never iced up, was out of the way, wasn't visable or a eye sore on a normal walk-around and easy to preflight when you leaned over to view it. Cheap and a non mechanical source of vacuum power for instrumants. Only downside is the time to get a steady track orDG, AI or AH. On take off, by the end of a 2000' runway and maybe 800 to 1000 feet in the air is all the time it takes to spool up the gyros. Never found this to be a problem. Plus I don't do " Zero-zero", IFR, blind, DG runway heading departures in the soup either.... Subject: Re: Zenith-List: venturi troubles?? From: caspainhower@aep.com 02/16/2004 08:57:19 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >Is it possible that the venturi is icing up and losing >vacuum? John, I haven't heard of venturi icing, other than in a carb which has the added cooling action of vaporizing gasoline. I fly with a venturi in the Midwest in all VFR conditions/temps and have never experienced it. I typically run between 2 - 3 inches, which is a little on the low side. What is you're vacuum indicating? Do you have a vacuum DG? If so, and it works OK, you probably have an AI about to fail completely. Craig S. N601XS ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:43 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re:Jabiru 3300 Vac pump pad --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Thanks, Gig that sound like a winner but way pricey. I wonder (for that price) if it is TSO'd? Joe Motis 601 XL Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:11 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Hi Group, I adjusted the cable tension for my controls as per specifications (30 lbs). Fine for rudder and elevator. However, for the ailerons, I noticed some deformation of the center wing bottom skins where the bellcrank channel is located. It seems to pull quite strongly on the rib. I reduced the tension down to 25 lbs and there is still some deformation. Did I do anything wrong? Michel ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:09 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Michel, I couldn't get any discernable variation in tension between these aileron belcranks in movement, so I've probably got less than 20 lbs tension. There isn't enough play to engage more force than that. I'd suggest you lower the tension a bit. It's another matter with elevator cable controls, but I'll keep even them lightly tensioned rather than the 30 lbs used on other aircraft. I hope you didn't bend anything. Larry Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > Hi Group, > the ailerons, I noticed some > deformation of the center wing bottom skins where the > bellcrank channel is located. It seems to pull quite > strongly on the rib. > > I reduced the tension down to 25 lbs and there is > still some deformation. Did I do anything wrong? > > Michel ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:26 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" I have to agree, I never even bothered to measure my tension but I bet its no where near 50lbs...I look for "as long as it don't drrop its ok. I been flying it for 5 years. Frank 601 HDS 313 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" --> Michel, I couldn't get any discernable variation in tension between these aileron belcranks in movement, so I've probably got less than 20 lbs tension. There isn't enough play to engage more force than that. I'd suggest you lower the tension a bit. It's another matter with elevator cable controls, but I'll keep even them lightly tensioned rather than the 30 lbs used on other aircraft. I hope you didn't bend anything. Larry Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > Hi Group, > the ailerons, I noticed some > deformation of the center wing bottom skins where the bellcrank > channel is located. It seems to pull quite strongly on the rib. > > I reduced the tension down to 25 lbs and there is > still some deformation. Did I do anything wrong? > > Michel advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:21 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Sorry I mean't its nowhere near 30 lbs! Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" --> I have to agree, I never even bothered to measure my tension but I bet its no where near 50lbs...I look for "as long as it don't drrop its ok. I been flying it for 5 years. Frank 601 HDS 313 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" --> Michel, I couldn't get any discernable variation in tension between these aileron belcranks in movement, so I've probably got less than 20 lbs tension. There isn't enough play to engage more force than that. I'd suggest you lower the tension a bit. It's another matter with elevator cable controls, but I'll keep even them lightly tensioned rather than the 30 lbs used on other aircraft. I hope you didn't bend anything. Larry Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > Hi Group, > the ailerons, I noticed some > deformation of the center wing bottom skins where the bellcrank > channel is located. It seems to pull quite strongly on the rib. > > I reduced the tension down to 25 lbs and there is > still some deformation. Did I do anything wrong? > > Michel advertising on the Matronics Forums. advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:47 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 flaperon movement --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 2/17/2004 9:45:52 AM Mountain Standard Time, keystone@gci.net writes: > > My problem today is I have a "rattle" in the flaperons at full deflection. > It is caused by the bell crank not being aligned with the vertical control > rods. It is much less evident when the flaps are down because the bell crank > more closely aligns with the vertical control rods. I estimate the movement > of the trailing edge is =BD". I have tightened down all the nuts as tight as > I would like them to be. My IA says in time it will round out the bell crank > which will create more slop and a need to replace the bell crank. With it > under the back seat will be a *itch to replace the bell crank. > > > Does or has anyone else had the problem? Or better yet a solution? > > > My first try woud be to replace the Heim joints with a high quality one thats teflon lined. That will take all the play out of the connection. I bet you can sneek new ones in without too big a deal. that back seat is poorly designed for access. I made a few more inspection holes in it for that very reason. I use National Rod Ends in all my racing products and they are bulletproof. They will sell direct too. Ben Haas. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:18 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Thanks to everyone who responded. Many responses real fast! do not archive --- Michel Therrien wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > > Hi Group, > > I adjusted the cable tension for my controls as per > specifications (30 lbs). Fine for rudder and > elevator. However, for the ailerons, I noticed some > deformation of the center wing bottom skins where > the > bellcrank channel is located. It seems to pull > quite > strongly on the rib. > > I reduced the tension down to 25 lbs and there is > still some deformation. Did I do anything wrong? > > Michel > > > ===== > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > __________________________________ > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:41 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Michel, I've got 30-40 lbs tension on mine and haven't noticed any deformation. But thanks for the heads up. I'll check to see if I can detect any deformation next time I see the plane. Of course I have a different wing than you do and with my thinner wing there would be a shorter arm to deform. FWIW I built a very simple spring based tension meter. It works well. >Hi Group, > >I adjusted the cable tension for my controls as per >specifications (30 lbs). Fine for rudder and >elevator. However, for the ailerons, I noticed some >deformation of the center wing bottom skins where the >bellcrank channel is located. It seems to pull quite >strongly on the rib. > >I reduced the tension down to 25 lbs and there is >still some deformation. Did I do anything wrong? Frank Jones C-GYXQ 601XL 912S Ottawa ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:29 PM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Aileron cable tension --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Deformation is under the centerwing at the outside bear box rib (under the bell crank channel). I still have some distorsion at 20 lbs. --- Frank Jones wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > > Michel, > > I've got 30-40 lbs tension on mine and haven't > noticed any deformation. > But thanks for the heads up. I'll check to see if I > can detect any > deformation next time I see the plane. Of course I > have a different wing > than you do and with my thinner wing there would be > a shorter arm to > deform. FWIW I built a very simple spring based > tension meter. It works > well. > > >Hi Group, > > > >I adjusted the cable tension for my controls as per > >specifications (30 lbs). Fine for rudder and > >elevator. However, for the ailerons, I noticed > some > >deformation of the center wing bottom skins where > the > >bellcrank channel is located. It seems to pull > quite > >strongly on the rib. > > > >I reduced the tension down to 25 lbs and there is > >still some deformation. Did I do anything wrong? > > Frank Jones > C-GYXQ 601XL 912S > Ottawa > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:20 PM PST US From: "Herbel" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Installing 7F3-3SP Top Longeron Gusset --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Herbel" Was the damage to the 801 a hard landing or a "controlled crash"?