Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:40 AM - 12V Heaters (Andrew SanClemente)
2. 04:39 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (Bob Miller)
3. 05:48 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (Dave Austin)
4. 06:19 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/19/04 (Grant Corriveau)
5. 06:34 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (Scott Laughlin)
6. 07:10 AM - Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection (Ron DeWees)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: Use of portable 12V Heaters (Gary Gower)
8. 10:57 AM - 701 Mods I have never seen B4 (Jon Croke)
9. 11:11 AM - wing tank fabrication (Brett Hanley)
10. 11:39 AM - Re: wing tank fabrication (Graham Kirby)
11. 01:06 PM - Re: wing tank fabrication (Scott Laughlin)
12. 01:30 PM - Re: Use of portable 12V Heaters (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
13. 01:50 PM - Re: wing tank fabrication (Monty Graves)
14. 02:53 PM - Re: wing tank fabrication (Jon Croke)
15. 02:55 PM - Re: wing tank fabrication (Stephen Titus)
16. 03:15 PM - Oil Heaters? (David Barth)
17. 03:22 PM - Re: wing tank fabrication (Steve Dixon)
18. 03:32 PM - Re: wing tank fabrication (Monty Graves)
19. 03:40 PM - Harbor Freight beading machine (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
20. 06:45 PM - Re: Oil Heaters? (wizard-24@juno.com)
21. 07:59 PM - Re: Oil Heaters? (Joemotis@aol.com)
22. 08:08 PM - Re: Stratus Subaru cooling (Bill Cardell)
23. 08:08 PM - Re: Oil Heaters? (Joemotis@aol.com)
24. 09:24 PM - Re: Oil Heaters? (jnbolding1)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
Frank,
I haven't gotten to the point of installing my engine, very soon
though, just finishing up my panel/accessory wiring before I put the
firewall on for good. Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides
replaced?? I live in the northeast and the chances of surviving 3
engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing fields.
Thanks for the info, interesting setup for the heat, Ill look into
maybe doing the same. I had already planned on using computer fans
for defrosting so I have plenty on hand.
Thanks
Andy
Frank,
I haven't gotten to the point of installing my engine, very soon though, just
finishing up my panel/accessory wiring before I put the firewall on for good.
Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides replaced?? I live in the northeast
and the chances of surviving 3 engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing
fields.
Thanks for the info, interesting setup for the heat, Ill look into maybe doing
the same. I had already planned on using computer fans for defrosting so I have
plenty on hand.
Thanks
Andy
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Thanks Jerry,
Since the plane is stressed to 6 gs, even though most of us would black-out
at 4gs, we should make the gap seal strong enough to withstand at least 50
lbs./ft2.
This is testable.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: <jensenm33@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <jensenm33@sbcglobal.net>
>
> The wing loading is about 10 lbs./ft2. so there is not much loading.
>
> Jerry Jensen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Miller
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> --> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Scott,
> I'm concerned that even though .016 is holding the aileron to the wing, it
> is supported on both sides, whereas the gap seal would be supported on
only
> one. I wish we had a way to determine how much pressure would be on that
> gap seal. Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Bob:
> >
> > My right wing is sitting on the bench upside right now. I'll put the
> > aileron in place and take a photo tonight. The gap isn't that wide
> > even
> in
> > the full up position, but there is still a gap in the neutral
> > position.
> >
> > For clarification, I have the hinge-less ailerons and the gap I am
> > talking about is on the bottom between the aileron and the wing. If
> > you look at drawing 6-S-3 (Mine is dated 12/02), you can see the
> > aileron deflection is 11.5 deg. from neutral in both directions (up
> > and down).
> >
> > Closing this small gap may not make much difference, but it seems easy
> > enough to do. As to your question about the pressure pushing up on
> > the .016" aluminum, a strip of .016" aluminum is the only thing
> > holding the aileron to the wing (not counting the control rod).
> >
> > A bigger issue is the top gap between the flap and the wing. I never
> > saw the flaps in the "up" position on the Demo 601XL at ZAC to see
> > what it
> looks
> > like in-flight. (they put them down for boarding and exiting the
> aircraft.)
> >
> > This is fun, isn't it?
> >
> > Scott.
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection
> > Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:04:02 -0500
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> > <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> >
> > Scott,
> > Just curious, as I've been considering this same mod. How did you
> > arrive
> at
> > .016? Is there any way to determine how much pressure will be pushing
> > the aluminum up into the gap? You've probably thought of this, but
> > some teflon or UHMW tape on the trailing edge would reduce abrasion of
> > the paint on the lower skin of the aileron.
> > Bob
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
> > <cookwithgas@hotmail.com> >
> > > Craig and others:
> > >
> > > I have been thinking about a strip of .016 aluminum riveted to the
> bottom
> > of
> > > the wing the length of the aileron using the existing rivet holes.
> > It could > be carefully bent upward (with a sheet brake) in such a
> > way that it
> holds
> > > pressure against the aileron. Also, if necessary a slight bend
> > could
> be
> > > made on the trailing edge (downward) to prevent it from snagging on
> > > anything. >
> > > This strip of aluminum could be installed permanently between the
skin
> > and
> > > the rear channel using the existing rivet holes and painted with the
> > wing.
> > > If you are real clever, you could cut your bottom wing skins with
this
> > piece
> > > sticking out.
> > >
> > > I am very close to this part of construction and I plan to try this
> soon.
> > I
> > > will post some photos and comments on my website.
> > >
> > > Scott Laughlin
> > > www.cooknwithgas.com
> > >
> > > Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying
> Guide.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free!
> >
> >
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
A very rough way to calculate the pressure on the gap seal would be:
The a/c weighs 1200 lbs max
The wing area is 130 sq ft, and assume each sq ft would be loaded equally
and only the wings produce lift.
So pressure per sq ft is 9.23 lbs. or .064 lbs per sq inch.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/19/04 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> OK, I was thinking Mylar was a flexible tape, not a stiff material. How do
> you determine how strong the Mylar needs to be to avoid having it pushed up
> into the gap by pressure under the wing?
> Bob
Not to stiffle creativity -- BUT! --- (you KNEW that word was coming! ;-)
.... aerodynamically speaking, I suspect that such a mod would have a
totally inconsequential result in speeding up a Zodiac. The wing is too fat
already, and there are other drag issues which are orders of magnitude
higher -- i.e. wheels/gear; cowling; canopy; interfaces between all these;
wing/fuselage joint;
And I certanly echo some else's cautionary note about using anything in this
area that provides even the remotest possiblity of jamming the ailerons.
happy building!
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Bob, Jeff and Others:
This is all fun to talk about, but as Jeff reminded us, the consequences can
be devastating for little mistakes in judgment.
My first vehicle project (20 years ago) was a VW bug restoration. As a
young person I wanted it to be "different" and I made several changes as it
went back together. While driving the car for a few years, I was
disappointed by almost everything I changed from the factory design. Go
figure - the hundreds of hours of testing, design man-hours, and customer
feedback provided a product that worked far better than a modified vehicle
with my "different" ideas!
Someone told me after I first started this project "resist your temptation
to deviate from the plans." This is good advice. I'll still tweak things
here and there, but a careful consideration of any "tweaking" is necessary.
Thanks for the good conversation.
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer!
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron Trim & Deflection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
HI Scott and others,
This post reminds me of a conversation I had years back with Wayne Ison of
Team Aircraft in TN re building their Minimax UL kits. He said that he
would rather sell his kits to a person who can read a cook book than an
aeronautical engineer. The cooks just read the plans and build the plane
while the engineers second-guess every joint and procedure and generally
come up with a plane that is less safe, heavier, or both.
To test out this theory he used a mega computer at the Space Center and
analized various suggested "improvements" to his design. He said that in
most cases the changes just moved stress from one area to another and
presented another problem.
I think I will use my creative juces to paint the plane or work on the
panel or interior but not redesign something that's worked fine for years.
Just my 2c worth
Ron DeWees
do not archive
"snip" > Bob, Jeff and Others:
>
> This is all fun to talk about, but as Jeff reminded us, the consequences
can
> be devastating for little mistakes in judgment.
>
> My first vehicle project (20 years ago) was a VW bug restoration. As a
> young person I wanted it to be "different" and I made several changes as
it
> went back together. While driving the car for a few years, I was
> disappointed by almost everything I changed from the factory design. Go
> figure - the hundreds of hours of testing, design man-hours, and customer
> feedback provided a product that worked far better than a modified vehicle
> with my "different" ideas!
>
> Someone told me after I first started this project "resist your temptation
> to deviate from the plans." This is good advice. I'll still tweak things
> here and there, but a careful consideration of any "tweaking" is
necessary.
>
> Thanks for the good conversation.
>
> Scott Laughlin
Message 7
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| Subject: | Use of portable 12V Heaters |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Also, another thing to look out: The Rotax 912 alt is rated at about
20 amp (?) or a little higher, and modern car alternators (full
electric equiped) are rated at 90 amps or more, I dont thing that the
little alt in our engines will keep up the charge... Maybe a Subaru
with a car alt.... Just a thought.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Bruce Bockius did this...I don't know how effective it was. On the
> face of
> it these heaters look pretty small in terms of output.
>
> I would be nervous about draining the battery on approach to landing.
>
> At night with all the lights on I'm down to about 13.5 volts at the
> battery...Now your going to add a heater on to of this load?
>
> What I did was to get a ford heater with 4 computer muffin fans on
> the back.
> Low speed is two fans running, hi speed is all four.
>
> The water circulates continuously (through the bypass hose) but the
> radiated
> heat with no fans running has never been an issue.
>
> My heater was brass which is a little heavy, but you can get
> aluminium
> heater/cooling cores.
>
> Have you changed out your valve guides yet?
>
> Frank
>
> HDS Stratus, with Ram heads. 313 hours
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
> SanClemente
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Use of portable 12V Heaters
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
> --> <ansancle@townisp.com>
>
> Hi,
> Ive read through many of the threads regarding getting heat into the
> cabing and was wondering if anyone had simply wired in one of the
> many 12V portable automotive heater/fans? If so how did they work
> out? On the face of it seems like a simple, lightweight, portable
> solution (remove in summer if desired) to solve the cabin heating
> problem.
>
> All comments welcome
> Thanks
> Andrew
>
> 601-HDS w/Stratus Subaru EA-81
> 95% complete
>
>
> Hi,
> Ive read through many of the threads regarding getting heat into the
> cabing
> and was wondering if anyone had simply wired in one of the many 12V
> portable
> automotive heater/fans? If so how did they work out? On the face of
> it seems
> like a simple, lightweight, portable solution (remove in summer if
> desired)
> to solve the cabin heating problem.
>
> All comments welcome
> Thanks
> Andrew
>
> 601-HDS w/Stratus Subaru EA-81
> 95% complete
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 8
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| Subject: | 701 Mods I have never seen B4 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
They say: ask and ye shall receive...
A 701 builder, Stephen Johnston, submitted some photos of 701 mods he is
currently invovled with, including landing lites in the SLATS, a belly pod
for storage, wing lockers in the tips, and you thought the tundra tires
supplied by ZAC were big... see what size he is using!
I added a new link 'Builders Photos' on the site www.CH701.com that will
take you to his pics.
Im sure there are even more pics out there in builder land... send them in,
or, a link to your website that has them! There is a 'last changed date'
on the front page so you can quickly tell if there have been mods since you
last visited, w/o having to scrounge looking for new photos all the time.
Of course, be sure to 'refresh' the pages if you have them cached so you see
the changes that I am making quite frequently at the moment.
Snowing in Green Bay, Wi (only six more months until spring-like weather!)
Jon
I
Message 9
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| Subject: | wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
I once saw a post here about how to form the beads
around the edges of the fuel tank. Now that I need
the information I cannot locate it. Does anyone out
there know the link to this information?
Brett
701 plans built
San Jose, Costa Rica
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 10
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| Subject: | wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Graham Kirby" <gkirby@yahoo.com>
Hi Brett,
Is this the article you are looking for?
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/building/fuel/How%20About%20An%20Al
uminum%20Fuel%20Tank_.html
Graham 601HD
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
I once saw a post here about how to form the beads
around the edges of the fuel tank. Now that I need
the information I cannot locate it. Does anyone out
there know the link to this information?
Brett
701 plans built
San Jose, Costa Rica
___
Message 11
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| Subject: | wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
"I once saw a post here about how to form the beads around the edges of the
fuel tank. Now that I need the information I cannot locate it. Does anyone
out there know the link to this information?
Brett
701 plans built
San Jose, Costa Rica"
Brett:
I purchased a tool from Harbor Freight which makes the bead. It was $89 on
sale. Here's a photo from my website showing it in use when I was making my
fuel tanks:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_29_03_Fluting.JPG
Others have used a round bar and pressed it into the aluminum somehow. You
can buy this tool mail order from Harbor Freight here:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34104
It seems to be on sale again right now.
Good luck with your project,
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
___
Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Use of portable 12V Heaters |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
The alternater built-in to rotax is rated at 250W at 14V. That comes out to slightly
more than 17 amps. Considering that a landing light can drow 100W and each
nav light light draws 40W that only leaves 30W (~2A) left over for everything
else until you start draining your battery. Better not run that landing light
very long. I beleive the Jabiru comes with a 10 amp generator. So current
is at even more of a premium. The Stratus Subaru comes with a 55 Amp alternator.
This has a much better margin but an electric heater powerful enough to do
any good would still tax this unit. The smallest electric heater I've found uses
12A and yeilds a measly 700BTU of heat. A small hot-water fed heater puts
out 1500BTU and draws about 5A for the fan. If you're thinking of using an electric
heater in your plane you might be better off with a snowmobile suit and
chemical toe warmers. :)
Bryan Martin
Message 13
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| Subject: | wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
>
>"I once saw a post here about how to form the beads around the edges of the
>fuel tank. Now that I need the information I cannot locate it. Does anyone
>out there know the link to this information?
>Brett
>701 plans built
>San Jose, Costa Rica"
>
>Brett:
>
Here is a post I made last November on how I made the bead on my wing tanks.
I wondered how I was going to do that too when I built my 701 wing tanks.
Thankfully B.J. Schwaller already had some dies made. And I borrowed his.
He made 2, one 2 x 2.75 inches long, and the other2 x 6 inches. (2 pieces
each like a form block) They are a couple of pieces of hard wood block with
a 5/32 steel rod running the long length of the block. I believe he said
the rod was a welding rod. The blocks are made putting them in a vice, and
drilling down the sandwich crack with a 5/32 bit. Or what ever size rod
size you want the bead to be. Then the steel rod is glued to piece of block
making the male half. The other is left open and makes the female half.
Bolts or aligning pins are drilled at the correct distance you want the
edge of the alum beaded. They serve 2 purposes. First to make sure the
blocks align to form the bead, and as an edge guide so that as you move it
along you always have the bead the same distance to the edge. When the
bolts are tighented or just put it in a vice and tighten the bead is
formed. Make a small bead section, the slide the blocks and clamp again,
along all the edges.
Clear as mud correct?
Basically you are making another set of small form blocks with a piece of
steel rod "half way" in laid in one side of one form block. When placing
the alum fuel sheet between the form blocks and squezzed, the steel rod
presses the bead into the mating block.
Its simple to make, and accurately makes the bead Zenith shows in the 701
tank plans. Small block is used for the ends and the larger block is slid
along 6 inchs at a time.
Pictures of the blocks can be seen here
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/files/Form%20Blocks/
but you will have to join the yahoo group to see them. The pictures may
show up on Jon C's new page
Monty
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
They are now there, thanks Monty
www.ch701.com
>
> Pictures of the blocks can be seen here
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/files/Form%20Blocks/
>
> but you will have to join the yahoo group to see them. The pictures may
> show up on Jon C's new page
>
>
> Monty
>
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen Titus" <stephen.titus@compassadv.com>
Monty,
I re-read your post and see you borrowed the dies. No problem, it's a
great idea and I'll find a long drill.
Steve
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Hi List.
Please excuse my ignorance on this subject but an idea
hit me on the drive home. I am planning on using a
Subaru engine in my 601. One reason being that I
really like the idea of water cooled engines so I can
use the water for cabin heat. (Gets mighty cold up
here in the winter) My second choice would be a
corvair as I really like the idea of direct drive but
am not thrilled with breathing air warmed in the
engine compartment. (Sure smells oily in the Cessna).
Is there any reason you can't use an oil cooler for
heat exchange for your cabin? If you don't require an
oil cooler for your system, could you install one
anyway in the cabin? I know this would mean more
weight for additional oil and a heat exchanger (oil
radiator?) I don't think it would cool your oil a lot
to heat your cabin. And if you already have an oil
cooler, could you simply install another heat
exchanger (in the cabin) in the line ahead of the oil
heat exchanger you have in the engine compartment? I
don't know anything about how oil cooling works yet
(as many of you have aleady guessed). Do you have to
pump the oil or how does it flow through an oil
cooler? Just musing but sometimes that's how some
excellent ideas are brainstormed.
Thanks for humoring me.
David
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Dixon" <dix39@charter.net>
There is some information about a homemade bead former on Jon Crokes new
site at www.CH701.com. Go to "Builders Photos" after getting to the site.
Steve Dixon.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Monty Graves" <mgraves@usmo.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: wing tank fabrication
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
>
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
> >
> >"I once saw a post here about how to form the beads around the edges of
the
> >fuel tank. Now that I need the information I cannot locate it. Does
anyone
> >out there know the link to this information?
> >Brett
> >701 plans built
> >San Jose, Costa Rica"
> >
> >Brett:
> >
>
> Here is a post I made last November on how I made the bead on my wing
tanks.
>
> I wondered how I was going to do that too when I built my 701 wing tanks.
> Thankfully B.J. Schwaller already had some dies made. And I borrowed his.
> He made 2, one 2 x 2.75 inches long, and the other2 x 6 inches. (2 pieces
> each like a form block) They are a couple of pieces of hard wood block
with
> a 5/32 steel rod running the long length of the block. I believe he said
> the rod was a welding rod. The blocks are made putting them in a vice, and
> drilling down the sandwich crack with a 5/32 bit. Or what ever size rod
> size you want the bead to be. Then the steel rod is glued to piece of
block
> making the male half. The other is left open and makes the female half.
> Bolts or aligning pins are drilled at the correct distance you want the
> edge of the alum beaded. They serve 2 purposes. First to make sure the
> blocks align to form the bead, and as an edge guide so that as you move it
> along you always have the bead the same distance to the edge. When the
> bolts are tighented or just put it in a vice and tighten the bead is
> formed. Make a small bead section, the slide the blocks and clamp again,
> along all the edges.
> Clear as mud correct?
> Basically you are making another set of small form blocks with a piece of
> steel rod "half way" in laid in one side of one form block. When placing
> the alum fuel sheet between the form blocks and squezzed, the steel rod
> presses the bead into the mating block.
> Its simple to make, and accurately makes the bead Zenith shows in the 701
> tank plans. Small block is used for the ends and the larger block is slid
> along 6 inchs at a time.
>
> Pictures of the blocks can be seen here
>
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/701builders/files/Form%20Blocks/
>
> but you will have to join the yahoo group to see them. The pictures may
> show up on Jon C's new page
>
>
> Monty
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | wing tank fabrication |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
At 02:57 PM 2/20/04 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Stephen Titus"
<stephen.titus@compassadv.com>
>
>
>Monty,
>
>I re-read your post and see you borrowed the dies. No problem, it's a
>great idea and I'll find a long drill.
>
>
>Steve
>
I am not sure how B. J. drilled his. He did tell me after Nov, that they
are 1/4 inch rods, instead of the size I orginally posted. Sorry about that.
If you can't find a long 1/4 inch bit. I would just set up and clamp some
blocks on the base of the drill press, so that when you flipped the form
block over, it would be in the same line. Then touch them up with a rat
tail file. I don't think size and perfect alignment is critical. The bead
is just to relieve the stress of welding the tank.
Hope this helps
Monty
Message 19
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| Subject: | Harbor Freight beading machine |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Sorry, but I deleted the original post.....the FULL part number for the
"sheet metal fabrication machine" is 34104-6VGA
Reason for this post is that the search engine at Harbor wouldn't find the
item without the complete number.
Machine looks very useful. Somebody order one and we'll all borrow it.
Zed Smith
701/R912/91.55672%
do not archive - ya'll scribble that number on the wall
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Heaters? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> really like the idea of water cooled engines so I can
> use the water for cabin heat.
Just my two cents on this.....True, the heating option is a good one;
however, I made the decision to eliminate water cooled engines early on
because it adds one more thing to go wrong. Before all the Suburu guys
trash me....understand that the only reason I believe this is that of all
the breakdowns I've had in cars over the years (and there have been
plenty), the vast majority have been water-cooling related issues.
Radiators, hoses, water pumps, stats, clamps, you name it. To me, in an
airplane it's just not worth the chance when there are perfectly good
air-cooled engines you can use. But I agree that it is a personal
preference -- just something to think about while making your decision.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Corvair powered (soon)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Heaters? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Greeting list
I am sure looking forward on the coming discourse on this one. My 2 cents
says the problem with electric is you don't have enough alternator, hot water is
heavy and complicated and does apply to help Air Cooled engines, oil cooler as
a heating coil sounds great for Jabiru 3300 owners except for a great deal of
critical oil flow in and through the cockpit, but, some have gas tanks also.
How about heat exchanger with a muff on the exhaust with some kind of coolant
that would circulate like a reefer cycle i.e. liquid to gas evaporative cycle.
Or what about a closed liquid system with a tailpipe muff and a 12 volt pump
to circulate liquid through a Ford style heater coil. With enough expansion
built into the system that the circ pump was neccesary only for heating? Just
some rambling.
Joe Motis
601 XL
The big box is here
Damn, thats a lot of rivets!!!
Message 22
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| Subject: | Stratus Subaru cooling |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Larry,
One thing to watch out for is the exhaust wrap. It tends to beat up the
welded joints in the exhaust from what I've seen on headers. FWIW
Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad)
Flyin' Miata
www.flyinmiata.com
www.fmprotege.com
970-242-3800
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry McFarland [mailto:larrymc@qconline.com]
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Subaru cooling
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
--> <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus Subaru cooling
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
>
> > My rad is located at the front of the fuse behind the engine and
> > prop. Tried to mount it back three feet but had poor cooling there
> > for some reason...
> >
> > John Karnes
> > Port Orchard, WA
> > N601JK
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> John,
> Did you see the Jan issue of Sport Aviation?
> Good article about P-51 style rad installations. Also a 601 builder
> Larry
McFarland has done lots of research on this subject
> and has a GREAT web site you must check out. http://macsmachine.com/
> Look under the Subaru Engine link to view his rad installation design. He
> has also moved his rad back And Larry if your out there, please chime in
here if you wish ...
> and at the least be sure to let us know how well your design works.
>
> Kelly
Good evening Kelly, John and List,
I'd just inquired of John what other factors might play into cooling
problems and tried to cover the bases. I'm making another air inlet which
will be interchangable with the first effort that could at best only be
referred to as a scoop. Articles in Alternative Engines suggest that in
addition to getting the intake away from the belly skin, it should allow the
air to steady out and slow a bit before going thru the radiator. The scoop
will probably only compress the air and create a lot of drag, so this second
effort should address the smoother airflow. NSI did a housing similiar to
this aft of the firewall that worked well and a friend in Australia named
Jackie reported on this forum that he has of these under his 601HD and has
not had any problems. His radiator is something near a 6 x 18 x 2-coil deep
set directly to the airflow.
My Rabbit radiator is 38" back of the firewall. The exhaust has been
wrapped. A heat muff encases the total muffler which will keep heat out the
radiator intake if not in the cabin. The
heads were reworked by RAM to preclude loosing valve guides. The radiator
has been sealed all round. Louvers were added at the back of the radiator to
enhance airflow and tuft testing suggests they work.
This all does wonders for a Stratus powered 601 Center of Gravity, but if
anyone sees a problem with any of this for cooling, I'd very much appreciate
the uptake, whatever it is.
Thank you for the input.
Larry McFarland
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Heaters? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Ford style heating coil mentioned only because some one mentioned on a
previous post that around 1965 Ford truck heater coils were made from aluminum.
Joe Motis
Do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Heaters? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>Is there any reason you can't use an oil cooler for
>heat exchange for your cabin?
got one on my RV3 for the last 28 yrs and almost 2000 hrs works good will have
one on my Corvair as well LOW&SLOW John
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