---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/24/04: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:03 AM - Re: New video (Brett Ray) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: New video (caspainhower@aep.com) 3. 06:03 AM - Subaru EJ-22 in a 601 - again (Steve Sharp) 4. 06:30 AM - Re: Subaru EJ-22 in a 601 - again (Flydog1966@aol.com) 5. 06:45 AM - Re: Subaru EJ-22 in a 601 - again (Thomas F Marson) 6. 07:52 AM - Re: makin' a prop (caspainhower@aep.com) 7. 08:27 AM - Re: test message -- please ignore do not archive (Kevin W Bonds) 8. 09:10 AM - Stratus EA-81's (RiteAngle3@aol.com) 9. 10:37 AM - oil to water oil cooler (Brett Hanley) 10. 11:04 AM - Re: Stratus EA-81's (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 11. 11:06 AM - Stress relief beads on fuel tanks (Brett Hanley) 12. 11:28 AM - Re: oil to water oil cooler (Bill Cardell) 13. 11:47 AM - Re: Stress relief beads on fuel tanks (Scott Laughlin) 14. 02:26 PM - Re: EA-81 in flight Engine Failures - was 12V Heaters (Lyle Peterson) 15. 03:31 PM - Sorry off topic (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 16. 04:37 PM - Re: Stratus EA-81's (Thomas F Marson) 17. 04:40 PM - Re: Sorry off topic (Lyle Peterson) 18. 04:55 PM - Anyone have an X-Plane file for the 601-HD? (Traveling Man) 19. 07:07 PM - Re: oil to water oil cooler (Rich) 20. 07:37 PM - Nose rib No.8 601 XL (Joemotis@aol.com) 21. 08:48 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 12V Heaters (RLucka@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:27 AM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New video --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" I have to fly 40 hours before I can take anybody for a ride. Why did you think there was someone in there? I put the camera on a tripod in the seat. -- Thanks Brett Ray owner Hog Air ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New video From: caspainhower@aep.com 02/24/2004 06:53:45 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com >I have to fly 40 hours before I can take anybody for a ride. Why did >you think there was someone in there? I put the camera on a tripod in >the seat. I'm sure he was joking about being able to fly with you through your videos. But I also appreciate being able to 'fly' with you while you're test flying your plane. That was a pretty slick landing given the cross-winds. I have always flown a high wing and when checking out on a Diamond Katana was warned you have to be careful when slipping in on a cross wind landing to avoid a wing strike. It looked like your attitude was still pretty flat. Thanks for taking us along. Craig S. N601XS do not archive This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:31 AM PST US From: Steve Sharp Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru EJ-22 in a 601 - again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Sharp Okay, I am a newbie to the 601 arena. However, I do have some experience in engine development - especially the Subaru EJ-22. It looks like I will be pulling rivets on a 601 in the near future, what I would like to use to pull it through the air is being investigated at the present time - and for some time in the future (read research). Given this, I know there have been brief discussions on the use of the EJ-22 in the 601, it has been stated the engine weight may be more than the 601 was designed for. However, there are EA-81 conversions out there, Stratus and others with comparable weights. I am still interested in thoughts on the EJ-22, whether it be stock EFI, or with a carb. Reiner offered reprofiled cams for the EJ-22 that put out an honest 158 HP at about 6100 RPM. and 148 lb-ft torque at 4500 RPM, that is with a Holley 2300 carb (350 CFM) and McNeilly mixture control. Okay, we don't want to spin a prop quite that fast, besides, the horsepower rating is outside the design criteria for the plane - so stated. Now, let's look at the HP-Torque curves at a more reasonable 3200 RPM - using the Reiner design cams, it looks to be about 82 HP. Stock EFI gives us maybe 78 HP, a little lighter than desired. At 100 HP (3800 RPM) something interesting happens, the HP curves for stock EFI and the cammed & carbed application seem to merge. The toque values look to be about 138 lb-ft for the reprofiled cams and carb set-up, about 128 lb-ft for the stock cams & EFI. Can I spin a prop at 3800 RPM? I think I can design and build one. What I am looking at is the possibility of using direct drive as opposed to incorporating a PSRU. Thoughts of a short driveshaft to keep the loads off the crankshaft are rolling around in my head. Prop making isn't rocket science, a three blade prop that is 10 times stronger than a standard wood prop can be manufactured for about $120 and about 40 hours work (small individual operations -Wanna see one? I'm interested in hearing ideas, thoughts, and first hand experiences in this arena. Steve Sharp stevensharp25@comcast.net Knoxville, TN ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:32 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru EJ-22 in a 601 - again --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com In a message dated 2/24/04 9:04:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, stevensharp25@comcast.net writes: << Prop making isn't rocket science, a three blade prop that is 10 times stronger than a standard wood prop can be manufactured for about $120 and about 40 hours work (small individual operations -Wanna see one? I'm interested in hearing ideas, thoughts, >> I have had an interest in carving my own wood prop, perhaps not to fly, but to try just for the fun of it, maybe a wall decoration. But I have never seen any "how to" books on the subject. Could Steve, or anyone else, recomend a good book,and a source? Phil do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:45:33 AM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Subaru EJ-22 in a 601 - again --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" All sounds interesting Kevin. But not possible to spin a direct drive prop as fast as 3800 rpm and still keep the blade tips speed slower than 90 percent of Sonic. Unless you run a blade diameter way to short. Then you would not have enough disc area. Rough diameter maximim for example for a Jab 3300 is 60" and this is predicated at 3300 rpm. Tom M ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sharp" Subject: Zenith-List: Subaru EJ-22 in a 601 - again > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Steve Sharp > > Okay, I am a newbie to the 601 arena. However, I do have some experience > in engine development - especially the Subaru EJ-22. It looks like I > will be pulling rivets on a 601 in the near future, what I would like to > use to pull it through the air is being investigated at the present time > - and for some time in the future (read research). Given this, I know > there have been brief discussions on the use of the EJ-22 in the 601, it > has been stated the engine weight may be more than the 601 was designed > for. However, there are EA-81 conversions out there, Stratus and others > with comparable weights. I am still interested in thoughts on the EJ-22, > whether it be stock EFI, or with a carb. Reiner offered reprofiled cams > for the EJ-22 that put out an honest 158 HP at about 6100 RPM. and 148 > lb-ft torque at 4500 RPM, that is with a Holley 2300 carb (350 CFM) and > McNeilly mixture control. Okay, we don't want to spin a prop quite that > fast, besides, the horsepower rating is outside the design criteria for > the plane - so stated. Now, let's look at the HP-Torque curves at a more > reasonable 3200 RPM - using the Reiner design cams, it looks to be about > 82 HP. Stock EFI gives us maybe 78 HP, a little lighter than desired. At > 100 HP (3800 RPM) something interesting happens, the HP curves for stock > EFI and the cammed & carbed application seem to merge. The toque values > look to be about 138 lb-ft for the reprofiled cams and carb set-up, > about 128 lb-ft for the stock cams & EFI. Can I spin a prop at 3800 RPM? > I think I can design and build one. What I am looking at is the > possibility of using direct drive as opposed to incorporating a PSRU. > Thoughts of a short driveshaft to keep the loads off the crankshaft are > rolling around in my head. Prop making isn't rocket science, a three > blade prop that is 10 times stronger than a standard wood prop can be > manufactured for about $120 and about 40 hours work (small individual > operations -Wanna see one? I'm interested in hearing ideas, thoughts, > and first hand experiences in this arena. > > Steve Sharp > stevensharp25@comcast.net > Knoxville, TN > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: RE: makin' a prop From: caspainhower@aep.com 02/24/2004 10:52:16 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com Someone asked about making their own prop. Here is a website that covers making a composite prop. http://www.icon.fi/~jtki/prop.html Craig S. N601XS This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:13 AM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: test message -- please ignore do not archive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Sounds like someone had a case of the "Mondays". :) ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: test message -- please ignore do not archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com > > The REAL problems will start AFTER you get on the list! > Welcome anyway. > Seventy-one (71) degrees, bright clear skies, no wind, and still hung up at > 90% done in North Texas. > > Zed Smith/701/R912/650 hrs/not done yet/do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:56 AM PST US From: RiteAngle3@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus EA-81's --> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides replaced?? I live in the northeast and the chances of surviving 3 engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing fields. Fellow PIlots, For some real numbers go to the KitFox list and others flying the EA-81's. That way you will have more numbers and some better information. Lots of them on the KitFox I believe. Matronics Kitfox list is Very Very active. Elbie Mendenhall EM aviation www.riteangle.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:50 AM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: oil to water oil cooler --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley There was once a company named Sube-Lyc. They sold what looked like a great conversion. One of the items they sold was a oil to water oil cooler. Does anyone know what happened to that company? Does anyone know where I can buy this type of cooler for a EA-81. Has anyone had experience with this type of cooler? Brett --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be > found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > includes the plain ASCII > version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-02-21.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-02-21.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat > 02/21/04: 11 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:17 AM - Re: Oil Heater (William > Nichelson) > 2. 08:23 AM - Shock mounts revisited (Bill > Steer) > 3. 08:56 AM - CH601 mods (Carlos Sa) > 4. 09:14 AM - Re: Shock mounts revisited (Bill > Cardell) > 5. 02:22 PM - test message -- please ignore do > not archive (Gordon Duke) > 6. 03:14 PM - [ Larry Martin ] : New Email List > Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) > 7. 03:15 PM - Re: test message -- please ignore > do not archive (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) > 8. 04:39 PM - oil coolers (Leo J. Corbalis) > 9. 07:08 PM - Re aileron Gap Seals (Norm > Turner) > 10. 07:16 PM - Safety wiring AN165 turnbuckle > end (Michel Therrien) > 11. 08:25 PM - Re: Safety wiring AN165 > turnbuckle end (Cy Galley) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:17:35 AM PST US > From: William Nichelson > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Oil Heater > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Nichelson > > > I decided as I was building to use the oil cooler to > supply heat to the > cabin. I was not sure how it would work, but this is > experimental right? I > have an early Jabiru 3300 S/N 16 and the oil cooler > I got with the engine > is not what is provided now. It is 2" thick by 4" x > 6". I fabricated a > housing to fit around the oil cooler and put a cable > operated door at the > bottom to dump the heat into the cowling in the > summer months. I ran two 2" > SCAT tubes from the oil cooler housing to the fire > wall. I have the oil > cooler housing hanging from the left side of the > engine mount, half way > between the engine and fire wall. There is a 4" SCAT > tube that supplies > fresh air to the oil cooler, so no engine > compartment air is passed into > the cabin. > > I flown with OAT below 30 degrees, and the heat will > just about drive you > out of the cockpit. At 40 degrees, I have to have > the fresh air vents open > almost full to keep a comfortable balance. I flew a > Commanche before > building my 610HDS, and we had to weld the muffler > and heat exchanger at > every annual. I did not want to have to risk carbon > monoxide on my 601. I > am very pleased with the oil cooler heater. I block > off the SCAT tubes into > the cabin in the summer. I still need to fabricate a > panel mounted shut off > for convenience, but have been having too much fun > flying. Maybe this year??? > Bill Nichelson > Bellefontaine, Ohio USA > Zodiac 601HDS > S/N 6-3556 - N132BN - "Casual Passion" > 3300 Jabiru Engine, Prince Prop > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=bn2&ID=272125&action=display > > > >Time: 03:15:55 PM PST US > >From: David Barth > >Subject: Zenith-List: Oil Heaters? > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > > > >Hi List. > >Please excuse my ignorance on this subject but an > idea > >hit me on the drive home. I am planning on using a > >Subaru engine in my 601. One reason being that I > >really like the idea of water cooled engines so I > can > >use the water for cabin heat. (Gets mighty cold up > >here in the winter) My second choice would be a > >corvair as I really like the idea of direct drive > but > >am not thrilled with breathing air warmed in the > >engine compartment. (Sure smells oily in the > Cessna). > > > >Is there any reason you can't use an oil cooler for > >heat exchange for your cabin? If you don't require > an > >oil cooler for your system, could you install one > >anyway in the cabin? I know this would mean more > >weight for additional oil and a heat exchanger (oil > >radiator?) I don't think it would cool your oil a > lot > >to heat your cabin. And if you already have an oil > >cooler, could you simply install another heat > >exchanger (in the cabin) in the line ahead of the > oil > >heat exchanger you have in the engine compartment? > I > >don't know anything about how oil cooling works yet > >(as many of you have aleady guessed). Do you have > to > >pump the oil or how does it flow through an oil > >cooler? Just musing but sometimes that's how some > >excellent ideas are brainstormed. > > > >Thanks for humoring me. > >David > > > >===== > >David Barth > >601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? > >Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:23:15 AM PST US > From: "Bill Steer" > Subject: Zenith-List: Shock mounts revisited > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > > > Somebody posted a note, I believe to this list, that > mentioned using some VW shock > mount parts (at $2.50 each) for their instrument > panel. I can't find the > note in the archives, though. If anybody saved it, > or can reference me to it, > === message truncated === __________________________________ http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:43 AM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus EA-81's --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Really a personal choice. For me with 3 incidences of valve failures and the latest rebuild of my heads by Stratus featured a guide that was knurled on the outside to make it fit (previously Stratus claimed that knurling was not acceptable...thats why they went to the phospher bronze valve guide). Note that Ram performance claimed my valve keeper was hitting the top of the guide and helping to "hammer" it into the combustion chamber. I cannot personally confirm this but I'm sure glad I know it ain't happening now! Stratus claimed that their phoshper bronze guide fitted with a circlip will prevent them from moving....My last failure was a guide fitted with such a circlip. Stratus claimed that running my two (modified) ignitions togther (they run 3 degrees apart) caused my engine to overheat and differential expansion caused the guide to move. Ram performance disagrees. I have never found any literature that tells me not to run the standard stratus ignitions systems at the same time and they run much further apart than 3 degrees. Running both ignitions show a slight DROP in exhaust gas temperature than just running one, I take this to disprove the "overheating theory" From my own perspective I don't care how overheated the engine becomes it should never allow a valve guide to slip. There are two ways to ensure this.. 1) Heat shrink the guide into the head....Stratus push them in at room temperature and sometimes knurl the outside of the guide to "bring them UP to size"...This is an unacceptable practice in my opinion. 2) Machine a step on the outside of the guide.....Should be unecessary if the guide is installed correctly (I have never heard of a stock Subaru guide failing) but it sure makes sure it can't happen. Ram Performance do both as standard. One final point...The first time you think you engine is going to quit as you feel the torque reversal thru the airframe you would gladly remortgage your house if it will get you down safely. For me $500 to do a nice big valve job and properly sorted guides is well worth it. Frank Note: These are purely my opinions and a reflection of my personal experiences and what I would do if I started over. This dialogue is in no way intended as a slur on the Status product. I think the Stratus is a pretty good conversion but I do not think Stratus has given any valid reason for the guides on my engine to fail. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RiteAngle3@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus EA-81's --> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides replaced?? I live in the northeast and the chances of surviving 3 engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing fields. Fellow PIlots, For some real numbers go to the KitFox list and others flying the EA-81's. That way you will have more numbers and some better information. Lots of them on the KitFox I believe. Matronics Kitfox list is Very Very active. Elbie Mendenhall EM aviation www.riteangle.com advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:50 AM PST US From: Brett Hanley Subject: Zenith-List: Stress relief beads on fuel tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley What happens if the tanks are welded without the beads? What is their purpose? Brett __________________________________ http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:45 AM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: oil to water oil cooler --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Starting 1994, Mazda Miatas came with a sandwich style oil/water cooler that sits under the oil filter. Probably a dime a dozen in the boneyards. Also, for lots of oil cooling type stuff, adaptors, etc, try www.batinc.net Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Brett Hanley [mailto:bretttdc@yahoo.com] Subject: Zenith-List: oil to water oil cooler --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley There was once a company named Sube-Lyc. They sold what looked like a great conversion. One of the items they sold was a oil to water oil cooler. Does anyone know what happened to that company? Does anyone know where I can buy this type of cooler for a EA-81. Has anyone had experience with this type of cooler? Brett --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be > found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > includes the plain ASCII > version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-02-21.ht ml > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-02-21.tx t > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Sat > 02/21/04: 11 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 07:17 AM - Re: Oil Heater (William > Nichelson) > 2. 08:23 AM - Shock mounts revisited (Bill > Steer) > 3. 08:56 AM - CH601 mods (Carlos Sa) > 4. 09:14 AM - Re: Shock mounts revisited (Bill > Cardell) > 5. 02:22 PM - test message -- please ignore do > not archive (Gordon Duke) > 6. 03:14 PM - [ Larry Martin ] : New Email List > Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) > 7. 03:15 PM - Re: test message -- please ignore > do not archive (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) > 8. 04:39 PM - oil coolers (Leo J. Corbalis) > 9. 07:08 PM - Re aileron Gap Seals (Norm > Turner) > 10. 07:16 PM - Safety wiring AN165 turnbuckle > end (Michel Therrien) > 11. 08:25 PM - Re: Safety wiring AN165 > turnbuckle end (Cy Galley) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 07:17:35 AM PST US > From: William Nichelson > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Oil Heater > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Nichelson > > > I decided as I was building to use the oil cooler to > supply heat to the > cabin. I was not sure how it would work, but this is > experimental right? I > have an early Jabiru 3300 S/N 16 and the oil cooler > I got with the engine > is not what is provided now. It is 2" thick by 4" x > 6". I fabricated a > housing to fit around the oil cooler and put a cable > operated door at the > bottom to dump the heat into the cowling in the > summer months. I ran two 2" > SCAT tubes from the oil cooler housing to the fire > wall. I have the oil > cooler housing hanging from the left side of the > engine mount, half way > between the engine and fire wall. There is a 4" SCAT > tube that supplies > fresh air to the oil cooler, so no engine > compartment air is passed into > the cabin. > > I flown with OAT below 30 degrees, and the heat will > just about drive you > out of the cockpit. At 40 degrees, I have to have > the fresh air vents open > almost full to keep a comfortable balance. I flew a > Commanche before > building my 610HDS, and we had to weld the muffler > and heat exchanger at > every annual. I did not want to have to risk carbon > monoxide on my 601. I > am very pleased with the oil cooler heater. I block > off the SCAT tubes into > the cabin in the summer. I still need to fabricate a > panel mounted shut off > for convenience, but have been having too much fun > flying. Maybe this year??? > Bill Nichelson > Bellefontaine, Ohio USA > Zodiac 601HDS > S/N 6-3556 - N132BN - "Casual Passion" > 3300 Jabiru Engine, Prince Prop > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=bn2&ID=272125&action=display > > > >Time: 03:15:55 PM PST US > >From: David Barth > >Subject: Zenith-List: Oil Heaters? > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > > > >Hi List. > >Please excuse my ignorance on this subject but an > idea > >hit me on the drive home. I am planning on using a > >Subaru engine in my 601. One reason being that I > >really like the idea of water cooled engines so I > can > >use the water for cabin heat. (Gets mighty cold up > >here in the winter) My second choice would be a > >corvair as I really like the idea of direct drive > but > >am not thrilled with breathing air warmed in the > >engine compartment. (Sure smells oily in the > Cessna). > > > >Is there any reason you can't use an oil cooler for > >heat exchange for your cabin? If you don't require > an > >oil cooler for your system, could you install one > >anyway in the cabin? I know this would mean more > >weight for additional oil and a heat exchanger (oil > >radiator?) I don't think it would cool your oil a > lot > >to heat your cabin. And if you already have an oil > >cooler, could you simply install another heat > >exchanger (in the cabin) in the line ahead of the > oil > >heat exchanger you have in the engine compartment? > I > >don't know anything about how oil cooling works yet > >(as many of you have aleady guessed). Do you have > to > >pump the oil or how does it flow through an oil > >cooler? Just musing but sometimes that's how some > >excellent ideas are brainstormed. > > > >Thanks for humoring me. > >David > > > >===== > >David Barth > >601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? > >Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 08:23:15 AM PST US > From: "Bill Steer" > Subject: Zenith-List: Shock mounts revisited > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > > > Somebody posted a note, I believe to this list, that > mentioned using some VW shock > mount parts (at $2.50 each) for their instrument > panel. I can't find the > note in the archives, though. If anybody saved it, > or can reference me to it, > === message truncated === __________________________________ http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:28 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stress relief beads on fuel tanks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" "What happens if the tanks are welded without the beads? What is their purpose?Brett" Strength. The same reason you flange the lightening holes. It makes the tank stronger. I built my tanks according to the plans and I wish I would have gone with a thicker material. Every welder approached about welding my tanks winced when he discovered they were made from .032" aluminum. Most wanted .050. Maybe you would not need the bead if the material was thicker. Easier to weld too. You would have heavier tanks, however. Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com Dream of owning a home? Find out how in the First-time Home Buying Guide. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:55 PM PST US From: "Lyle Peterson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 in flight Engine Failures - was 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" I would like to add d) the nature of the failure as near as can be determined. And an intro: Lyle Peterson, Vice President and Newsletter Editor, EAA Chapter 237, ANE, Blaine, MN Starting on a slow build RV6 in White Bear Lake, MN Almost 20 years of attending Oshkosh and loving every minute of it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" I would add c) May not have necessarily caused you to land but when you pulled the heads off you felt lucky to be alive! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garrou, Douglas Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Informal, non-scientific, but possibly educational survey: What is the total number of EA-81 in-flight engine failures we can identify just among members of this list? I guess I'll count as a failure (a) any time the engine flat-out quits while flying or (b) any time the engine starts behaving so badly you have to land for fear of dying. I guess we start with Frank's 3 to begin with. Doug G. ------------------- Time: 03:40:09 AM PST US From: Andrew SanClemente Subject: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides replaced?? I live in the northeast and the chances of surviving 3 engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing fields. advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == == ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:32 PM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: Zenith-List: Sorry off topic --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Lyle, are you going to power it with a soob? I am going to build a 7 and am thinking about an eggenfellner of A Ram Perfromance product. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Peterson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 in flight Engine Failures - was 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" --> I would like to add d) the nature of the failure as near as can be determined. And an intro: Lyle Peterson, Vice President and Newsletter Editor, EAA Chapter 237, ANE, Blaine, MN Starting on a slow build RV6 in White Bear Lake, MN Almost 20 years of attending Oshkosh and loving every minute of it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" I would add c) May not have necessarily caused you to land but when you pulled the heads off you felt lucky to be alive! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garrou, Douglas Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Informal, non-scientific, but possibly educational survey: What is the total number of EA-81 in-flight engine failures we can identify just among members of this list? I guess I'll count as a failure (a) any time the engine flat-out quits while flying or (b) any time the engine starts behaving so badly you have to land for fear of dying. I guess we start with Frank's 3 to begin with. Doug G. ------------------- Time: 03:40:09 AM PST US From: Andrew SanClemente Subject: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides replaced?? I live in the northeast and the chances of surviving 3 engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing fields. advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == == advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:27 PM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Stratus EA-81's --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" I can't comment much about your valve failure but I can about Stratus statement about your engine overheating differentially because you used two ignition systems timed 3 degrees apart. What Bull. You lower egt with the two systems is simply because more complete combustion is taking place inside the engine and less unburned fuel is combusting in the exhaust system. TomM ----- Original Message ----- From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Stratus EA-81's > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" > > Really a personal choice. > > For me with 3 incidences of valve failures and the latest rebuild of my > heads by Stratus featured a guide that was knurled on the outside to make it > fit (previously Stratus claimed that knurling was not acceptable...thats why > they went to the phospher bronze valve guide). > > Note that Ram performance claimed my valve keeper was hitting the top of the > guide and helping to "hammer" it into the combustion chamber. I cannot > personally confirm this but I'm sure glad I know it ain't happening now! > > Stratus claimed that their phoshper bronze guide fitted with a circlip will > prevent them from moving....My last failure was a guide fitted with such a > circlip. > > Stratus claimed that running my two (modified) ignitions togther (they run 3 > degrees apart) caused my engine to overheat and differential expansion > caused the guide to move. Ram performance disagrees. > > I have never found any literature that tells me not to run the standard > stratus ignitions systems at the same time and they run much further apart > than 3 degrees. > > Running both ignitions show a slight DROP in exhaust gas temperature than > just running one, I take this to disprove the "overheating theory" > > >From my own perspective I don't care how overheated the engine becomes it > should never allow a valve guide to slip. There are two ways to ensure > this.. > > 1) Heat shrink the guide into the head....Stratus push them in at room > temperature and sometimes knurl the outside of the guide to "bring them UP > to size"...This is an unacceptable practice in my opinion. > > 2) Machine a step on the outside of the guide.....Should be unecessary if > the guide is installed correctly (I have never heard of a stock Subaru guide > failing) but it sure makes sure it can't happen. > > Ram Performance do both as standard. > > > One final point...The first time you think you engine is going to quit as > you feel the torque reversal thru the airframe you would gladly remortgage > your house if it will get you down safely. > > For me $500 to do a nice big valve job and properly sorted guides is well > worth it. > > Frank > > Note: These are purely my opinions and a reflection of my personal > experiences and what I would do if I started over. This dialogue is in no > way intended as a slur on the Status product. I think the Stratus is a > pretty good conversion but I do not think Stratus has given any valid reason > for the guides on my engine to fail. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > RiteAngle3@aol.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Stratus EA-81's > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: RiteAngle3@aol.com > > > Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides > replaced?? I live in the northeast and the chances of surviving 3 > engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing fields. > Fellow PIlots, > For some real numbers go to the KitFox list and others flying the EA-81's. > That way you will have more numbers and some better information. Lots of > them > on the KitFox I believe. > Matronics Kitfox list is Very Very active. > > Elbie Mendenhall > EM aviation > www.riteangle.com > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:40:36 PM PST US From: "Lyle Peterson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sorry off topic --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" Frank, A soob is one possibility. I'm not anywhere near the point where I need to make that decision, but want some background information. The EA-81 isn't a good choice for an RV6 though, but the problems that users are having with them and their solutions may apply to larger engines, or they may not. I do have another idea that is off the back of the stove yet. It's in the dust bunnies of my mind. There is also the curiosity factor. Lyle -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) Subject: Zenith-List: Sorry off topic --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Lyle, are you going to power it with a soob? I am going to build a 7 and am thinking about an eggenfellner of A Ram Perfromance product. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Peterson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: EA-81 in flight Engine Failures - was 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lyle Peterson" --> I would like to add d) the nature of the failure as near as can be determined. And an intro: Lyle Peterson, Vice President and Newsletter Editor, EAA Chapter 237, ANE, Blaine, MN Starting on a slow build RV6 in White Bear Lake, MN Almost 20 years of attending Oshkosh and loving every minute of it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" I would add c) May not have necessarily caused you to land but when you pulled the heads off you felt lucky to be alive! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garrou, Douglas Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Garrou, Douglas" --> Informal, non-scientific, but possibly educational survey: What is the total number of EA-81 in-flight engine failures we can identify just among members of this list? I guess I'll count as a failure (a) any time the engine flat-out quits while flying or (b) any time the engine starts behaving so badly you have to land for fear of dying. I guess we start with Frank's 3 to begin with. Doug G. ------------------- Time: 03:40:09 AM PST US From: Andrew SanClemente Subject: Zenith-List: 12V Heaters Do all stratus EA-81's need the valve guides replaced?? I live in the northeast and the chances of surviving 3 engine outs are slim, not many suitable landing fields. advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == == advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == == ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:04 PM PST US From: "Traveling Man" Subject: Zenith-List: Anyone have an X-Plane file for the 601-HD? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" Just wondering. I picked up the program this week and thought I might use it to pretend while I wait for the OMB to approve SP/LSA. Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:02 PM PST US From: "Rich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: oil to water oil cooler --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" Aeroquip makes an oil cooler... heat exchanger type that plumbs into radiator hose. Rich 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Hanley" Subject: Zenith-List: oil to water oil cooler > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley > > There was once a company named Sube-Lyc. They sold > what looked like a great conversion. One of the items > they sold was a oil to water oil cooler. Does anyone > know what happened to that company? Does anyone know > where I can buy this type of cooler for a EA-81. Has > anyone had experience with this type of cooler? > > Brett > --- Zenith-List Digest Server > wrote: > > * > > > > ================================================== > > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================== > > > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be > > found in either > > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > > includes the Digest > > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > > features Hyperlinked > > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > > includes the plain ASCII > > version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed > > with a generic > > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > > > HTML Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-02-21.html > > > > Text Version: > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-02-21.txt > > > > > > ================================================ > > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > > ================================================ > > > > > > > > > > Zenith-List Digest > > Archive > > --- > > Total Messages Posted Sat > > 02/21/04: 11 > > > > > > > > > > Today's Message Index: > > ---------------------- > > > > 1. 07:17 AM - Re: Oil Heater (William > > Nichelson) > > 2. 08:23 AM - Shock mounts revisited (Bill > > Steer) > > 3. 08:56 AM - CH601 mods (Carlos Sa) > > 4. 09:14 AM - Re: Shock mounts revisited (Bill > > Cardell) > > 5. 02:22 PM - test message -- please ignore do > > not archive (Gordon Duke) > > 6. 03:14 PM - [ Larry Martin ] : New Email List > > Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares) > > 7. 03:15 PM - Re: test message -- please ignore > > do not archive (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) > > 8. 04:39 PM - oil coolers (Leo J. Corbalis) > > 9. 07:08 PM - Re aileron Gap Seals (Norm > > Turner) > > 10. 07:16 PM - Safety wiring AN165 turnbuckle > > end (Michel Therrien) > > 11. 08:25 PM - Re: Safety wiring AN165 > > turnbuckle end (Cy Galley) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 07:17:35 AM PST US > > From: William Nichelson > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Oil Heater > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: William Nichelson > > > > > > I decided as I was building to use the oil cooler to > > supply heat to the > > cabin. I was not sure how it would work, but this is > > experimental right? I > > have an early Jabiru 3300 S/N 16 and the oil cooler > > I got with the engine > > is not what is provided now. It is 2" thick by 4" x > > 6". I fabricated a > > housing to fit around the oil cooler and put a cable > > operated door at the > > bottom to dump the heat into the cowling in the > > summer months. I ran two 2" > > SCAT tubes from the oil cooler housing to the fire > > wall. I have the oil > > cooler housing hanging from the left side of the > > engine mount, half way > > between the engine and fire wall. There is a 4" SCAT > > tube that supplies > > fresh air to the oil cooler, so no engine > > compartment air is passed into > > the cabin. > > > > I flown with OAT below 30 degrees, and the heat will > > just about drive you > > out of the cockpit. At 40 degrees, I have to have > > the fresh air vents open > > almost full to keep a comfortable balance. I flew a > > Commanche before > > building my 610HDS, and we had to weld the muffler > > and heat exchanger at > > every annual. I did not want to have to risk carbon > > monoxide on my 601. I > > am very pleased with the oil cooler heater. I block > > off the SCAT tubes into > > the cabin in the summer. I still need to fabricate a > > panel mounted shut off > > for convenience, but have been having too much fun > > flying. Maybe this year??? > > Bill Nichelson > > Bellefontaine, Ohio USA > > Zodiac 601HDS > > S/N 6-3556 - N132BN - "Casual Passion" > > 3300 Jabiru Engine, Prince Prop > > > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=bn2&ID=272125&action=display > > > > > > >Time: 03:15:55 PM PST US > > >From: David Barth > > >Subject: Zenith-List: Oil Heaters? > > > > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > > > > > > >Hi List. > > >Please excuse my ignorance on this subject but an > > idea > > >hit me on the drive home. I am planning on using a > > >Subaru engine in my 601. One reason being that I > > >really like the idea of water cooled engines so I > > can > > >use the water for cabin heat. (Gets mighty cold up > > >here in the winter) My second choice would be a > > >corvair as I really like the idea of direct drive > > but > > >am not thrilled with breathing air warmed in the > > >engine compartment. (Sure smells oily in the > > Cessna). > > > > > >Is there any reason you can't use an oil cooler for > > >heat exchange for your cabin? If you don't require > > an > > >oil cooler for your system, could you install one > > >anyway in the cabin? I know this would mean more > > >weight for additional oil and a heat exchanger (oil > > >radiator?) I don't think it would cool your oil a > > lot > > >to heat your cabin. And if you already have an oil > > >cooler, could you simply install another heat > > >exchanger (in the cabin) in the line ahead of the > > oil > > >heat exchanger you have in the engine compartment? > > I > > >don't know anything about how oil cooling works yet > > >(as many of you have aleady guessed). Do you have > > to > > >pump the oil or how does it flow through an oil > > >cooler? Just musing but sometimes that's how some > > >excellent ideas are brainstormed. > > > > > >Thanks for humoring me. > > >David > > > > > >===== > > >David Barth > > >601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? > > >Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > > _____________________________________ > > > > > > Time: 08:23:15 AM PST US > > From: "Bill Steer" > > Subject: Zenith-List: Shock mounts revisited > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" > > > > > > Somebody posted a note, I believe to this list, that > > mentioned using some VW shock > > mount parts (at $2.50 each) for their instrument > > panel. I can't find the > > note in the archives, though. If anybody saved it, > > or can reference me to it, > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________ > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:56 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Nose rib No.8 601 XL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Hi Listers Does the nose rib number 8 rivet on the in board or on the outboard side of the L angle at the end of the wing spar? The drawing is ambivalent to myself and two friends and after reviewing the drawings was unable to find a detail. Thanks Joe motis 601 XL Starting right wing ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:33 PM PST US From: RLucka@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 12V Heaters --> Zenith-List message posted by: RLucka@aol.com In a message dated 2/24/2004 3:01:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes: I would add c) May not have necessarily caused you to land but when you pulled the heads off you felt lucky to be alive! Put me in as a category c). Three years ago, I had an inflight engine failure on my Stratus Subaru where one spark plug got shorted out by valve guide debris. The engine ran rough on only three cylinders and I managed to land at the airport 7 miles away. I got the heads replaced by Stratus and have flown ever since conservatively with no more valve guide problems. This is not to say I won't have another valve guide problem. I still haven't decided to send my heads to Ram Performance (the Ram web site does not give info as to what is done to rebuild the heads). Dick (601HDS, Stratus, 32 hours at engine failure, 176 hours flight time now)