Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:19 AM - Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods (Jeff Paden)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods (Bob Miller)
3. 06:25 AM - Re:640 Show of hands (James Schulist)
4. 09:16 AM - Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (mike honer)
5. 09:16 AM - Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (mike honer)
6. 10:56 AM - Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Instrument Panels) (Cory Emberson)
7. 11:15 AM - Re: New Builder Intro (Randall Thomure)
8. 11:50 AM - Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods (Greg Ferris)
9. 12:04 PM - Re: Use of Portable 12V Heaters (John M. Goodings)
10. 01:45 PM - Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (wizard-24@juno.com)
11. 02:07 PM - Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (Joemotis@aol.com)
12. 04:48 PM - Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (Benford2@aol.com)
13. 05:21 PM - 912 ul & VDO gages (Mike Sinclair)
14. 06:38 PM - RUDDER KIT (Joe Proctor)
15. 07:51 PM - Re: 912 ul & VDO gages (Tim & Diane Shankland)
16. 07:59 PM - Re: Inspection process in Ontario, Canada (Mark Townsend)
17. 08:16 PM - bing electric carb heaters (Hal Rozema)
18. 10:26 PM - Re: 912 ul & VDO gages (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>>Hi Jeff. The 801 is the same design. All you need to do is make a seat for
>>the front gear out of flat stock and do not machine the V groove in it.
That
>>will take all the centering effect out of it.
Thank you, actually just after I posted my plea for help I had thought about
just about the same fix.
I was going to just make less of a V groove and keep cutting away the V
groove until I get the feel
that I expect from the rudder pedals.
Thank you for your quick reply.
Jeff Paden
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Jeff,
You'll probably get lots of replies on this. If I understand you correctly,
this is a problem that has been discussed much in the archives. Many
people put a piece of UHMW material -I used a piece of 1/8" nylon
sheet--between the top plate of the nosewheel strut and the shelf on which
it rests/rotates. (This is on a 601, the 640 might be different) Also made
nylon plates of the same stuff that mimic the V, but that extend only about
3/32 higher than the original V (so there's not as much pressure on them as
before). Riveted and bolted them to the insides of the original V. This way
I still get centering, but a lot less resistance, and none of that
metal-to-metal contact. You might want to search the archives to see how
others have done it.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Help needed with nose gear steering rods
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
>
> Can anyone assist me on the subject of nose gear steering rods?
>
> Today I connected my rudder cables and nose gear steering rods and then
> lifted the nose gear off the ground to test my controls. I was VERY upset
> to find out that it was VERY hard to move my rudder. This is because of
the
> design of the CH-640 nose gear. It sits in a V and is held down by the
> bungee. Since the steering rods are solid rods the nose gear has to move
to
> move the rudder. It would be very difficult to use the rudder during
flight
> and I MUST find a way to change this.
>
> I am looking for any source to purchase what I would call normal nose gear
> steering rods, you know, the ones that have a spring in them so that in
> flight the nose gear can stay forward and when the rudder is being used.
> Then on the ground the weight of the engine will take the load off the V
> that the strut sits in and the rods should then push the nose gear for
> steering.
>
> If anyone knows where I can purchase these steering rods PLEASE let me
know.
>
> Thank you
>
> Jeff Paden
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | re:640 Show of hands |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "James Schulist" <mrlassiter@wirefreeme.net>
Thanks Larry, Matt, and Jeff for the responses. I did find the websites, and
it is because of those that I have decided to go forth and conquer!. My
plane is to, as I said order the odd part from ZAC and spend my time
buildinng the stuff that looks enjoyable... Gonna keep browsing those sites
so you can expect to hear more from me.
Thanks again,
Dave Schulist
mrlassiter@wirefreeme.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" <amhoner@rtmc.net>
I have just dummied up the flaps on my XL, made an aluminum flap profile
and mounted it in place. I get no play at the end of the "flap" to speak
of.
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> There's about 18mm of play in the flaps on my XL (in other words, if you
> manually grab the aft end of the flap and try to move it, it will move up
> about 18mm). Is this about the same as other XL's out there, or is it too
> much play? I know you can move the Cessnas' flaps by hand about the same
> amount, but this plane is much lighter so I'm concerned about flutter
> problems while in flight.
>
> Also, how has everyone been installing their hinge pins, so that you can
> remove them later if necessary? I'm aware of the methods used to stop the
> pin from working its way out of the hinge, but unless you leave the pin
> longer than needed (without bending the end), how would you get it out
> again if need be?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" <amhoner@rtmc.net>
omething is moving...Things to look at are:
1. front end of the actuator: bushing installed OK?
2. seat back channel moving? it should not.
3. good fit between the torque tube and the end bearings? I used a 1 inch
hole saw and lots of cutting fluid to get a good clean tight fit.
4. fit between crank pin and hole in the flap...should also be tight with no
appreciable play. I have a letter from Chris Heintz that allows me to slot
the hole in the direction of the crank arm if I don't get a good fit.
4. with that much play. unless you are using gorilla force, something should
will go clunk when you shake the flap, and that will be the problem.
Hinge Pin: I like the way Cessna does it, with a .060" diameter through hole
and a cotter pin at the end of the hinge.
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> There's about 18mm of play in the flaps on my XL (in other words, if you
> manually grab the aft end of the flap and try to move it, it will move up
> about 18mm). Is this about the same as other XL's out there, or is it too
> much play? I know you can move the Cessnas' flaps by hand about the same
> amount, but this plane is much lighter so I'm concerned about flutter
> problems while in flight.
>
> Also, how has everyone been installing their hinge pins, so that you can
> remove them later if necessary? I'm aware of the methods used to stop the
> pin from working its way out of the hinge, but unless you leave the pin
> longer than needed (without bending the end), how would you get it out
> again if need be?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Request: Information for Kitplanes Article (Instrument Panels) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Hello!
I am writing an article for Kitplanes magazines that will feature builders who
have put interesting panels in their planes.
My deadline is rather short, so if you could email me as soon as possible, hopefully
by Monday, that will give me enough time to put it together.
Here are some of the criteria I'm looking for:
Instrument Panels that are (one or any combination):
1. creative
2. inexpensive
3. nontraditional configuration
4. nontraditional equipment
5. easier to use
6. enhanced safety (maybe the configuration made a significant difference in troubleshooting/recognizing
a problem, or in putting the plane down safely because
of its ease of use)
7. generally cool and different
8. anything else distinctive about it.
Other things to keep in mind:
1. How you came to design your panel (How you got your idea)
2. The reasons why you did it as you did
3. What benefits you had in mind
4. Any unexpected benefits (and/or pitfalls) there were
5. What you learned
6. How many hours you've flown with it (if completed)
7. How it's performed
8. The equipment and tools you used
9. How much time it took to build and install
10. Whether it took any professional or amateur assistance
11. The cost of building it.
Here are the photo requirements for Kitplanes: Photos must be 300 dpi at a size
large enough to use in the magazine, which is usually at least 3 x 3 inches.
If an image is 300 dpi at 1 x 1 inch, it won't be big enough to do any good.
By the way, I will be compiling another roundup in early March for distinctive
(etc.) interiors and/or exteriors, so if you would like to contact me about that
one, I'd love to hear from you!
Thanks so much - I really appreciate your help!
best regards,
Cory Emberson
Hayward, CA [KHWD]
510.599.4409
cory@lightspeededit.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New Builder Intro |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randall Thomure" <rthomure@ameritech.net>
Jack & Dan,
Welcome to the Zenith 601XL group. I too looked very seriously at the
RV's before deciding on the 601XL. It was a choice between the 601XL
and the RV-9A. When I added up the time to build, my level of building
experience (read zero), cost including engine and the lack of rivets,
the 601XL was only way for me to go.
I would be happy to share/show you my progress to date. I am a kit
builder and finished with the rudder and tail. I am holding off on
ordering the wing kits until later because of other summer activities.
You're welcome to come down and look at my set up and work to date. I'm
located in Frankfort, about 25 miles south of the Loop.
Again, welcome to the Zenith group - you've made the right choice.
Randy Thomure
601XL Kit Builder
Rudder & Tail
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
I used UHMW in my nosegear setup with a shallower V to give at least some
feel of the center position, but with less force required for deflection.
That being said, the rudder self centers to a point, but if one deflects the
rudder to one side, it doesn't really get back to center without help.
Fortunately there is almost no adverse yaw, so the rudder is primarily used
in takeoff (where the friction actually holds against the P factor (poor
mans rudder trim) and during crosswind landing.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Help needed with nose gear steering rods
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
<drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Jeff,
> You'll probably get lots of replies on this. If I understand you
correctly,
> this is a problem that has been discussed much in the archives. Many
> people put a piece of UHMW material -I used a piece of 1/8" nylon
> sheet--between the top plate of the nosewheel strut and the shelf on which
> it rests/rotates. (This is on a 601, the 640 might be different) Also
made
> nylon plates of the same stuff that mimic the V, but that extend only
about
> 3/32 higher than the original V (so there's not as much pressure on them
as
> before). Riveted and bolted them to the insides of the original V. This
way
> I still get centering, but a lot less resistance, and none of that
> metal-to-metal contact. You might want to search the archives to see how
> others have done it.
> Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Help needed with nose gear steering rods
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
> >
> > Can anyone assist me on the subject of nose gear steering rods?
> >
> > Today I connected my rudder cables and nose gear steering rods and then
> > lifted the nose gear off the ground to test my controls. I was VERY
upset
> > to find out that it was VERY hard to move my rudder. This is because of
> the
> > design of the CH-640 nose gear. It sits in a V and is held down by the
> > bungee. Since the steering rods are solid rods the nose gear has to
move
> to
> > move the rudder. It would be very difficult to use the rudder during
> flight
> > and I MUST find a way to change this.
> >
> > I am looking for any source to purchase what I would call normal nose
gear
> > steering rods, you know, the ones that have a spring in them so that in
> > flight the nose gear can stay forward and when the rudder is being used.
> > Then on the ground the weight of the engine will take the load off the V
> > that the strut sits in and the rods should then push the nose gear for
> > steering.
> >
> > If anyone knows where I can purchase these steering rods PLEASE let me
> know.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Jeff Paden
> >
> >
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Use of Portable 12V Heaters |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
My comment refers to the best use of the 250W Rotax alternator current of
about 17 or 18 amps, specifically LANDING LIGHTS. Don't use the 100W
variety. 50W halogen lamps of the same size and shape are now available.
I think they give slightly more light than the old 100W bulbs. Thus, the
halogen bulbs require about 4 amps instead of about 8 amps.
John Goodings.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> 4. fit between crank pin and hole in the flap...should also be tight
> with no appreciable play. I have a letter from Chris Heintz that allows
me
> to slot the hole in the direction of the crank arm if I don't get a
good
> fit.
That is precisely what caused my problem. I had to enlarge that hole,
because although it aligned ok with the flap in the netral position, when
trying to lower the flaps it would bind. So, I enlarged the hole, which
solved that problem, not thinking about the play I would end up with. I
didn't think of using the mock flap to get things lined up -- and this is
yet another part of the construction process that ZAC's builders manual
doesn't even touch on.
Guess I'll have to check with ZAC to see if the 18mm play is too much. If
it is, then my only option seems to be pulling the damn things off and
starting over, which I'm less than excited about. 3 steps forward, 2
steps backward...or is it the other way around?
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Hey Mike
This sounds like deja vu all over again. I layed out the fuel lines in NR
1,2,3,and 4. Did it in pencil, for a nice precise layout. All set to drill. Then
Momma calls for dinner (and Moi has never been accused of missing a meal) so a
great dinner it was. So back to the garage for round 2. I pick up the drill
and drill a beautiful 13/16 hole with a brand new unibit right in the tooling
hole on NR 1,2 and 3 don't even see my "precision" layout. A pleasant call to
Shirley at ZAC, plus a $95.16 ding and were still moving. But is it forward or
backwards? Numbers confuse me...
Cheers
Joe Motis
601 XL
starting wing
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 2/29/2004 2:46:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
wizard-24@juno.com writes:
>
>
> Guess I'll have to check with ZAC to see if the 18mm play is too much. If
> it is, then my only option seems to be pulling the damn things off and
> starting over, which I'm less than excited about. 3 steps forward, 2
> steps backward...or is it the other way around?
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
I can assure you 18 mm will kill you from the flutter. Don't even think about
it..
Message 13
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| Subject: | 912 ul & VDO gages |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Hi all
Looking for someone that has had experience in this area. I've got the VDO engine
gages that were provided by Zenith in the kit but have not really located a drawing
for wiring. Feel free to correct me if you think I may be headed in the wrong
direction. The oil temp, press, & water temp gages have 3 prongs. One marked +
that
I believe is power, that can be hooked in series from the essential fuse block.
Another that is marked with an S, that I think should connect to the appropriate
sensors on the engine. And the 3rd that I would imagine goes to a ground. If someone
should happen to have a sketch or description of how they have wired their gages
I
would be a very appreciative.
Next, the VDO volt gage, It has 2 prongs. One is marked +, and again I suspect
that it comes from a positive feed of the fuse block. The main question I have
is,
where does the other prong tie into the system? I'm completely stumped on this
one.
I know there must have been a reason that this was included in the kit, but no
info
on how it should be hooked up. Zenith provided a very basic diagram, but has
neglected to supply anything usable.
Again, all replies are appreciated.
Mike Sinclair
Augusta, Kansas
701 taildragger, 98% done with wiring, need to finish firewall insullation and
close
nose skin, then I'm ready to hang wings.
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Proctor" <pjoe2@qwest.net>
Hi all
I have a 601 XL Rudder Kit available for sale. Still in the box with all
the Parts and Manual included. You pay shipping from Portland OR. Best
Offer.
Joe Proctor
pjoe2@qwest.net
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 912 ul & VDO gages |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Mike,
Voltmeters have one side connected to the positive and the other to
ground pick your place.
Tim Shankland
Mike Sinclair wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
>
>Hi all
>
> Looking for someone that has had experience in this area. I've got the VDO
engine
>gages that were provided by Zenith in the kit but have not really located a drawing
>for wiring. Feel free to correct me if you think I may be headed in the wrong
>direction. The oil temp, press, & water temp gages have 3 prongs. One marked +
that
>I believe is power, that can be hooked in series from the essential fuse block.
>Another that is marked with an S, that I think should connect to the appropriate
>sensors on the engine. And the 3rd that I would imagine goes to a ground. If someone
>should happen to have a sketch or description of how they have wired their gages
I
>would be a very appreciative.
>
> Next, the VDO volt gage, It has 2 prongs. One is marked +, and again I suspect
>that it comes from a positive feed of the fuse block. The main question I have
is,
>where does the other prong tie into the system? I'm completely stumped on this
one.
>I know there must have been a reason that this was included in the kit, but no
info
>on how it should be hooked up. Zenith provided a very basic diagram, but has
>neglected to supply anything usable.
>
>Again, all replies are appreciated.
>
>Mike Sinclair
>Augusta, Kansas
>701 taildragger, 98% done with wiring, need to finish firewall insullation and
close
>nose skin, then I'm ready to hang wings.
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Inspection process in Ontario, Canada |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
You can apply to Wayne Juniper at Transport Canada for a Ministry inspection
but you will have better luck with the MD-RA not to mention you will need a
really great reason for transport to even talk to you about inspections.
You will need two inspections, a pre-close and a final. Plus you need to
have a letter of intent registered with the MD-RA. You may want to pick up
the RAA's builders Manual. It has all the information and forms you will
need from start to finishing a homebuilt in Canada.
Mark Townsend
601XL EJ-2.2
Alma, Ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jarek M. Walter" <jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Inspection process in Ontario, Canada
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jarek M. Walter"
<jarek.walter@sympatico.ca>
>
>
> For all of you building in Ontario:
> I'm getting a little bit confused about the required inspection process
> here - who to contact and what inspections are required. Is it mandatory
> to use www.md-ra.com services? Thanks.
> Jarek M. Walter
> Ch 701
>
Message 17
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ZENITH GROUP <zenith-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | bing electric carb heaters |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema <hartist1@cox.net>
E-mail me off list if you know where I can by one
Hal Rozema
ThePlaneFolks.Net
VSTOL CH701 Jabiru 3300
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 912 ul & VDO gages |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
>
> direction. The oil temp, press, & water temp gages have 3 prongs. One marked
+
> that
> I believe is power, that can be hooked in series from the essential fuse block.
> Another that is marked with an S, that I think should connect to the appropriate
> sensors on the engine. And the 3rd that I would imagine goes to a ground. If
That's correct.
>
> Next, the VDO volt gage, It has 2 prongs. One is marked +, and again I
> suspect
> that it comes from a positive feed of the fuse block. The main question I have
> is,
> where does the other prong tie into the system? I'm completely stumped on this
> one.
The voltmeter gets a positive voltage connection and a negative (ground) connection.
Bryan Martin
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