Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 AM - Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips (John Flavin)
2. 05:05 AM - halogen landing/taxi lights (The Minearts)
3. 05:24 AM - Re: 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (Frank Jones)
4. 06:08 AM - Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips (Larry Martin)
5. 06:40 AM - XL Panel tilt? (Peter Mather)
6. 08:09 AM - New Builder Info ()
7. 10:00 AM - Questioning lift - was 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (Jeff Small)
8. 10:32 AM - Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips (Robert Schoenberger)
9. 10:32 AM - Worktable (Robert Schoenberger)
10. 11:14 AM - Re: Worktable (David Barth)
11. 11:52 AM - Re: Worktable (Bill Howerton)
12. 12:49 PM - Inspection process in Ontario ()
13. 12:50 PM - Yarde Metals (Kevin W Bonds)
14. 01:21 PM - Re: XL Panel tilt? (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
15. 01:24 PM - ELT (Leo J. Corbalis)
16. 01:28 PM - Re: Yarde Metals (Keith Ashcraft)
17. 01:46 PM - Re: ELT (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
18. 01:51 PM - Panel construction (Bill Howerton)
19. 02:25 PM - Re: Panel construction (wizard-24@juno.com)
20. 02:26 PM - Re: Panel construction (Bill Steer)
21. 02:31 PM - Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods (Frank Jones)
22. 02:31 PM - Re: 912 ul & VDO gages (Mike Sinclair)
23. 02:34 PM - Re: XL Panel tilt? (Peter Mather)
24. 02:38 PM - Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods (rbauer@INTERGATE.COM)
25. 03:06 PM - Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
26. 03:06 PM - Re: Panel construction (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
27. 03:11 PM - Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods (Gary Gower)
28. 03:28 PM - Re: Panel construction (Johann)
29. 03:50 PM - Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
30. 04:19 PM - Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips (wizard-24@juno.com)
31. 04:36 PM - Re: 701 Work Table (Joemotis@aol.com)
32. 05:35 PM - More flat work table...... (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
33. 05:37 PM - Re: Panel construction (Chuck Deiterich)
34. 05:39 PM - Re: Panel construction (Chuck Deiterich)
35. 05:42 PM - Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips (Gary Gower)
36. 06:38 PM - Re: More flat work table...... (ronnie wehba)
37. 07:03 PM - Re: halogen landing/taxi lights (Frank Jones)
38. 07:03 PM - Re: Panel construction (Bill Steer)
39. 07:06 PM - Re: New Builder Info (Larry Martin)
40. 07:08 PM - Re: Questioning lift - was 601XL Flaps & hinge pins (Frank Jones)
41. 07:36 PM - Re: halogen landing/taxi lights (Wayne Glasser)
42. 08:58 PM - Re: More flat work table...... (George Swinford)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
I'm just now skinning the first wing on my 701, so am not that far ahead, but am
happy to pass on what I've got so far...
- If you haven't already built a good, sturdy, flat 4' x 8' workbench, this is
definitely the time to do it. How flat you really need is anybody's guess, but
I'd shoot for at least +/- 1/8 of an inch across the whole table. Use a water
level and shims under the feet to level the edges, then if you still have
bows, put a light sheet of plywood on top of that with shims underneath in the
low spots.
- don't cut the relief slots in the L-angles that make up the leading edge skin
curves any wider than you need to, or keeping your edge distances when drilling
will be a real pain.
- when you go to put the top skin on, Make sure the rib is jigged onto the table
in a straight line and vertical along its entire length. Also, the natural
tensions in the metal, even minor differences in rib heights, unevenness in flange
bends, gravity, etc will conspire to give you small but annoying sags and
waves in the skin that move around. Resist the temptation to forge ahead with
drilling and clecoing and hope they'll work their way out. They won't, and
you'll end up either living with them (which I think most people do) or install
false rib stiffeners and shims (i.e., more weight) to alleviate them before
you rivet.
John Flavin, Raleigh, NC
Time: 08:27:02 PM PST US
From: MElrod3732@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Hi Group I started construction on my 701 last Nov. and I am finishing up
on the tail feathers.
Before I start on the wings, I would appreciate any building tips and/or
advice on possible problem areas and any special techniques on making the process
Message 2
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| Subject: | halogen landing/taxi lights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Minearts" <smineart@kdsi.net>
Does anyone have sources and part numbers for halogen lights to replace the sealed
beams for landing and taxi lights?
Steve Mineart, 601XL
Message 3
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| Subject: | 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Mike,
I have about the same amount of play as you do, due primary to the hole
size of the rod attach bracket being slightly larger than it should be.
In my case I may get around to shimming it somehow. Anyway, the play
makes no difference at all. The low pressure over the wing forces the
rear edge up and it stays there throughout all flight profiles (except
perhaps in a stall). It does not flutter.
Frank
>There's about 18mm of play in the flaps on my XL (in other words, if
you
>manually grab the aft end of the flap and try to move it, it will move
up
>about 18mm). Is this about the same as other XL's out there, or is it
too
>much play? I know you can move the Cessnas' flaps by hand about the
same
>amount, but this plane is much lighter so I'm concerned about flutter
>problems while in flight.
>
>Also, how has everyone been installing their hinge pins, so that you
can
>remove them later if necessary? I'm aware of the methods used to stop
the
>pin from working its way out of the hinge, but unless you leave the pin
>longer than needed (without bending the end), how would you get it out
>again if need be?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike Fortunato
>601XL
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
The operative word is "FLAT". I believe some of the instructions state
"level", which is nice but at this point not necessary and "FLAT" is bad
important. I built my table frame out of 3"X3"X3/8" thick angle iron, on
six legs with coasters and a 3'6"X11'6"' shelf about 18' down. Then 5/8"
plywood on top. You will need at least a 3" lip all the way around for
clamping, etc. A little heavy but tuff and works real well. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
>
> I'm just now skinning the first wing on my 701, so am not that far ahead,
but am happy to pass on what I've got so far...
>
> - If you haven't already built a good, sturdy, flat 4' x 8' workbench,
this is definitely the time to do it. How flat you really need is anybody's
guess, but I'd shoot for at least +/- 1/8 of an inch across the whole table.
Use a water level and shims under the feet to level the edges, then if you
still have bows, put a light sheet of plywood on top of that with shims
underneath in the low spots.
>
> - don't cut the relief slots in the L-angles that make up the leading edge
skin curves any wider than you need to, or keeping your edge distances when
drilling will be a real pain.
>
> - when you go to put the top skin on, Make sure the rib is jigged onto the
table in a straight line and vertical along its entire length. Also, the
natural tensions in the metal, even minor differences in rib heights,
unevenness in flange bends, gravity, etc will conspire to give you small but
annoying sags and waves in the skin that move around. Resist the
temptation to forge ahead with drilling and clecoing and hope they'll work
their way out. They won't, and you'll end up either living with them (which
I think most people do) or install false rib stiffeners and shims (i.e.,
more weight) to alleviate them before you rivet.
>
> John Flavin, Raleigh, NC
>
> Time: 08:27:02 PM PST US
> From: MElrod3732@aol.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
>
> Hi Group I started construction on my 701 last Nov. and I am finishing
up
> on the tail feathers.
> Before I start on the wings, I would appreciate any building tips and/or
> advice on possible problem areas and any special techniques on making the
process
>
>
---
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
Please can someone confirm the panel angle of the
601XL. I've got an opportunity to acquire an electric
attitude gyro and want to make sure its the correct one
Many Thanks
Peter
Message 6
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| Subject: | New Builder Info |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <kkinney@fuse.net>
Hello, I suppose most people have offered up this information, but I'll give my
spin on it.
For clecos & used tools, I like http://www.yardstore.com/ You have to ask for used stuff.
For bits, I like http://www.panamericantool.com/ The only problem is that there is a minimum $50 order. If you get their pneumatic cleco tool, you shouldn't have a problem spending that.
I use my pneum cleco tool *FAR* more than my pneum rivetter. If I were forced
to choose just one, it would be the cleco tool.
FYI - Order twice as many #40 bits as you do #30 & #20. The reason is that the
full face of the #40 is used to drill pilot holes where the others just widen
the pilot hole. #40's to wear out much faster.
BUY SHARPIES! TONS of them. I like the metal reinforced fine lines, but that's
just a personal preference. Just a quick note, when you wear the marker down
to the metal part, throw it AWAY!! Any attempts to use it after that will end
up scribing the aluminum in addition to leaving a line.
(Translation - "Bad thing.")
Buy laquer thinner from any paint store. It's good for taking off ZAC labels &
removing sharpie marks.
Harbor Freight has good general tools. Join their Inside Track Club ($10/year)
and you get an extra flyer with even cheaper prices. (If you are computer inclined,
you can hack the product codes and find out the cheapest prices on any
tool without joining the ITC.)
For example, on a good day, you can get their 18" bending brake for $15.
I recommend 'sports' Band-Aids. These are the cloth reinforced ones. They stick
much better and are able to stop anything short of arterial bleeding.
Just my opinion,
Kevin Kinney
601XL - Filling in the cockpit with bits of aluminum
Message 7
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| Subject: | Questioning lift - was 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:02:22 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>The low pressure over the wing forces the
>rear edge up and it stays there throughout all flight profiles (except
>perhaps in a stall). It does not flutter.
Are we really sure???? Not about the flutter but about the low pressure forcing
the rear (trailing) edge up???? Recent discussions about gap seals and the
observation from Norm Turner (rain droplets going down through hinge on aileron)
made me reevaluate some common thinking along the lines (Coanda Effect) that
Bryan M. suggested.
A good article is:
http://www.aa.washington.edu/faculty/eberhardt/lift.htm
which points to a massive downwash over the trailing edge. Read it (might take
several readings for some sections) and see if your thinking on "lift" remains
unchallenged.
Norm and Frank, and any flying builder, tuft the wing near the trailing edge with
some yarn strands about four to six inches in length. Those XL drivers can
report if the strands stay attached, lift up at the trailing edge, or are sucked
down into the flap gap. Those with hinged ailerons can report the same.
It was suggested to use thread - if your eyesight is keen then you might try that
but I'm going to use yarn. Take along the camera to record things, might
even try a stall to watch for separation (tuft more of the wing and see if separation
begins inboard or outboard). All sorts of interesting observations to
be made. Be cognizant that propwash might affect what you see in areas near
the fuselage.
Those with Kent Paser's book, Speed with Economy, should review his pictures first.
Speedy tailwinds jeff
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
>
> I'm just now skinning the first wing on my 701, so am not that far ahead,
but am happy to pass on what I've got so far...
>
> - If you haven't already built a good, sturdy, flat 4' x 8' workbench,
this is definitely the time to do it. How flat you really need is anybody's
guess, but I'd shoot for at least +/- 1/8 of an inch across the whole table.
Use a water level and shims under the feet to level the edges, then if you
still have bows, put a light sheet of plywood on top of that with shims
underneath in the low spots.
>
> - don't cut the relief slots in the L-angles that make up the leading edge
skin curves any wider than you need to, or keeping your edge distances when
drilling will be a real pain.
>
> - when you go to put the top skin on, Make sure the rib is jigged onto the
table in a straight line and vertical along its entire length. Also, the
natural tensions in the metal, even minor differences in rib heights,
unevenness in flange bends, gravity, etc will conspire to give you small but
annoying sags and waves in the skin that move around. Resist the
temptation to forge ahead with drilling and clecoing and hope they'll work
their way out. They won't, and you'll end up either living with them (which
I think most people do) or install false rib stiffeners and shims (i.e.,
more weight) to alleviate them before you rivet.
>
> John Flavin, Raleigh, NC
>
> Time: 08:27:02 PM PST US
> From: MElrod3732@aol.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
>
> Hi Group I started construction on my 701 last Nov. and I am finishing
up
> on the tail feathers.
> Before I start on the wings, I would appreciate any building tips and/or
> advice on possible problem areas and any special techniques on making the
process
>
>
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
I would strongly recommend that the worktable be 4' x 12' and not 4 x 8'. The
701 wing is 12' long and support is needed along its entire length during construction.
The premanufactured home building products such as joists or microlams
(heavy) are good products for the frame on which the table surface will rest.
These projects are absolutely flat which is not true for say 2" x 12" x 12'
lumber. This is a pretty important item. Hap Schoenberger 701 right wing
finished yesterday!
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
>
> I'm just now skinning the first wing on my 701, so am not that far ahead, but
am happy to pass on what I've got so far...
>
> - If you haven't already built a good, sturdy, flat 4' x 8' workbench, this is
definitely the time to do it. How flat you really need is anybody's guess,
but I'd shoot for at least +/- 1/8 of an inch across the whole table. Use a
water level and shims under the feet to level the edges, then if you still have
bows, put a light sheet of plywood on top of that with shims underneath in the
low spots.
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
If anyone wants a really true 4X12 table but doesn't
work with steel much, I have designed and made a table
from simple 2X4's, 2X2's, 1X2's and a few sheets of
plywood. Some of the plywood was cut in 6 inch strips
and glued/screwed to the 2X2's to make box beams.
All the strip cutting was done at the lumber yard -
straight as an arrow - and everything for the table
fit in my little Subaru Impreza but two pieces of
2X8X.75 plywood. When ready for doing the fuselage, I
will easily disassemble the table from the basement
and reassemble it in the garage. Contact me off list
if you would like a materials list and rough plan.
David
>
> I would strongly recommend that the worktable be 4'
> x 12' and not 4 x 8'.
=====
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
I also made a 4' X 12' table.
I made mine by constructing a frame out of 2X4's attaching a 4X8 and 4X4
3/4" thick sheets of particle board to it using screws, then attaching that
to legs constructed with 3 saw horses and spans set to the inside width of
the table frame. I then leveled the entire assembly using progressively
thicker shims (my garage has a slanted floor for drainage) then screwed the
leg spans to the frames directly.
To protect the surface and to help layout the airplane's parts during
assembly, I marked out grids onto the table's surface using 6" X 6" major
and 1" X 1" minor grids. It was tedious, but it has REALLY come in handy to
keep things straight and square. I then gave it a good protected clear
urathane coating.
If you want to see some pics go to my website at
http://bill.howerton.com/zodiac/zodiac_main.htm If you scroll to the bottom
of the page you'll see a picture of the table by itself, or by wandering
around the site, you can see the table (with my airplane on it) taken from
different angles.
Bill Howerton - N714BH
601 XL Corvair
Message 12
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| Subject: | Inspection process in Ontario |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <petes15515@msn.com>
Re. the question of pre-closeup inspections Jarek, this is the answer I
recieved back from Gerry Haliburton of MD-RA. The ALLCOMPONENTS part was
bolded and underlined so it makes it pretty clear that all enclosed parts ie
rudder, stab., elevator etc etc have to be inspected. At $200+ a pop I,m
going to be using a LOT of cleco's to temporarily close up work so that I
can have several items inspected at once ( My plan being to have the entire
tail assembly inspected initially ).
Response from MD-RA :-
"All components must be inspected prior to closing. When you are ready,
send in an Inspection Request form and we can make the arrangements."
Gerry Haliburton
Office Manager
MD-RA Inspection Service d'inspection
2469 Aviation Lane
London, Ont. N5V 3Z9
519-457-2909
1-877-419-2111
-----Original Message-----
From: petes15515@msn.com [mailto:petes15515@msn.com]
Subject: Sub-assembly inspections
Hi.. I,m just starting by Zenith CH701 project so this question is somewhat
premature but it never hurts to understand the system :
I intend to start my project ( scratch built ) with the rudder and
horizontal stab. Are inspections req. on these prior to skinning them or is
standard practice to maintain the construction / material log supplemented
with photos of the work done ?
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
I saw in the archives where a few people have gotten good deals on Aluminum from
Yarde Metals ($28USD for .016 4'x12'). I contacted Yarde Metals North Carolina
office (close to me in Nashville) and was quoted $62.40 for the same sheet.
What gives? Does price depend on location? I think at least one of the guys
was in Canada. Can I order from Canada and get it at about $28USD and have it
shipped to here? Anyone have any insight on this?
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go!
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: XL Panel tilt? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
The panel tilt in a 601XL is zero degrees.
Bryan Martin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
>
> Please can someone confirm the panel angle of the
> 601XL. I've got an opportunity to acquire an electric
> attitude gyro and want to make sure its the correct one
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Peter
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
This is about my Ameri-King AK-450 ELT. The ORANGE BRICK
On my latest "condition Inspection,I Had trouble with the ELT remote unit. Specifically, it did'nt work. I needed a new battery. The phone number on the book didn't work so I tried Duracell at www.theessentials.com. A fresh DL1/3N (lithium, the 7 year kind) costs $3.59 and if you buy 2 the shipping is free. Get a buddy to do his and save the shipping which is probably more than the battery.
Now for the fun stuff. My remote was totally DEAD. Probing it led me to the socket.
The plug and socket are the phone company's RJ 11 type. They both have gold
plated contacts that should guarantee operation for years on end. Unfortunately
even gold plating craps out when there is no or only microamps through the
circuit. I have a dental pick (from a surplus store) that I bent the tip 90
degrees, about .02 inches long.
( Before I retired, the company manufactured phone stuff and I did the development
work.) I bent the wires up in the socket, keeping them in their guide slots
at the back of the socket. An alternate is to clean the gold wires with a pencil
type eraser, after you carve the eraser to a square shape. DON'T get abrasive,
you'll cut through the gold plating. Repeated plugging and unplugging is
a safe alternate cleaning method.
This problem rarely happens with the "D" type plugs (like the printer socket on
the back of the computer) because the socket pins press harder on plug pins making
a gas tight seal.
Leo Corbalis
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Yarde Metals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft <keith.ashcraft@itt.com>
Kevin,
Here are my quotes from Yarde. I am not sure but I think this is from the Southington,
CT area.
Josh Siefken
860-406-6061
6061-T6 - SH 0.0160 48.000 144.000 31.00 /PC
6061-T6 - SH 0.0250 48.000 144.000 45.00 /PC
6061-T6 - SH 0.0320 48.000 96.000 34.00 /PC
6061-T6 - SH 0.0400 48.000 96.000 43.00 /PC
6061-T6 - SH 0.0630 48.000 96.000 68.00 /PC
2024-T3 - SH 0.0900 24.000 48.000 107.00 /PC
2024-T3 - SH 0.1250 24.000 24.000 87.00 /PC
The quotes are from a CH701 materials list.
I have found that these guys are at least 1/2 the price of Aircraft Spruce. I came
really close to making a purchase from Spruce, until I saw a discussion on
this user group. I have not ordered from them yet to see what my shipping charges
will be here into Colorado, but I am planning on getting some metal from
them this Spring.
Keith
CH701
tail 98% -- kit
all else 2% -- scratch
only 178% left to do
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
********************************************************************************************************
Kevin W Bonds wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
>
> I saw in the archives where a few people have gotten good deals on Aluminum from
Yarde Metals ($28USD for .016 4'x12'). I contacted Yarde Metals North Carolina
office (close to me in Nashville) and was quoted $62.40 for the same sheet.
What gives? Does price depend on location? I think at least one of the guys
was in Canada. Can I order from Canada and get it at about $28USD and have it
shipped to here? Anyone have any insight on this?
>
>Kevin Bonds
>Nashville Tn
>601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go!
>
>
>
>
--
*************************************
*Keith Ashcraft*
ITT Industries
Advanced Engineering & Sciences
5009 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO
80919
(719) 599-1787 -- work
(719) 332-4364 -- cell
keith.ashcraft@itt.com
************************************
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Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Thanks for the tip, primarilly because my phone at home crapped out last
night and wiggling the test port RJ 11 plug made it work intermittently...Of
course it stopped working the moment I srewed the cover back on and climbed
out of the mud from under the deck!
WD 40 didn't help either!
My remote ELT panel died after a year and I haven't had the inclination to
dig it out from behind my panel yet.
Hey you learn something new every day...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Leo J. Corbalis
Subject: Zenith-List: ELT
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis"
--> <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
This is about my Ameri-King AK-450 ELT. The ORANGE BRICK
On my latest "condition Inspection,I Had trouble with the ELT remote unit.
Specifically, it did'nt work. I needed a new battery. The phone number on
the book didn't work so I tried Duracell at www.theessentials.com. A fresh
DL1/3N (lithium, the 7 year kind) costs $3.59 and if you buy 2 the shipping
is free. Get a buddy to do his and save the shipping which is probably more
than the battery.
Now for the fun stuff. My remote was totally DEAD. Probing it led me to the
socket. The plug and socket are the phone company's RJ 11 type. They both
have gold plated contacts that should guarantee operation for years on end.
Unfortunately even gold plating craps out when there is no or only microamps
through the circuit. I have a dental pick (from a surplus store) that I bent
the tip 90 degrees, about .02 inches long.
( Before I retired, the company manufactured phone stuff and I did the
development work.) I bent the wires up in the socket, keeping them in their
guide slots at the back of the socket. An alternate is to clean the gold
wires with a pencil type eraser, after you carve the eraser to a square
shape. DON'T get abrasive, you'll cut through the gold plating. Repeated
plugging and unplugging is a safe alternate cleaning method. This problem
rarely happens with the "D" type plugs (like the printer socket on the back
of the computer) because the socket pins press harder on plug pins making a
gas tight seal.
Leo Corbalis
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
I also am in the earliest stages of planning my panel. I've been purchasing
instruments and avionics, and will soon have enough for a complete panel.
The question I have is this: As I look at the panel itself, it is made of
fairly thin piece of metal (.025 T6061). Is it really thick enough to
physically support the various instruments that are attached to it? Or, is
this simply supposed to act as a face plate, with other more bulky hardware
used behind it to support everything?
If someone could please answer with pics of their panles (particularly from
the back, I'ds appreciate it.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> the panel itself, it is made of fairly thin piece of metal (.025
T6061). Is it really thick enough
> to physically support the various instruments that are attached to it?
> Or, is this simply supposed to act as a face plate, with other more
bulky
> hardware used behind it to support everything?
I installed the flight instruments on a separate beefier subpanel (.060 I
think) attached the to the face of the main panel supplied ny ZAC, using
nutplates and screws. Not only did it add rigidity, but it also allows me
to pull the six flight instruments out for maintenance all attached to
that small panel. For the center of the panel where I installed the radio
and transponder, I have thick L-angles run from the instrument panel to
the firewall, which supports the trays for the radios, and also adds
rigidity to the whole assembly. When you install the top front skin, the
whole thing should be even stronger. Plus, I have a center panel section
which attaches from the bottom of the instrument panel to the center wing
spar, and that really helped firm things up (plus provided a spot to
mount the fuel selector, master switch, etc).
Wish I had pics to send, but I'm answering this remotely and don't have
direct access to my computer.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
One other question that may impact your decision is whether you have any
instruments that you want to shock mount. If you want to shock mount them,
you'll need to construct subpanels. I made my subpanels out of .063"
aluminum and attached them to a reinforced version of the panel ZAC supplies
with shock mounts I got at Reid Tool. There should be some notes in the
archives about shock mounting, and Bingelis has some articles on the EAA
site.
Hope this helps.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Panel construction
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> I also am in the earliest stages of planning my panel. I've been
purchasing
> instruments and avionics, and will soon have enough for a complete panel.
> The question I have is this: As I look at the panel itself, it is made of
> fairly thin piece of metal (.025 T6061). Is it really thick enough to
> physically support the various instruments that are attached to it? Or,
is
> this simply supposed to act as a face plate, with other more bulky
hardware
> used behind it to support everything?
>
> If someone could please answer with pics of their panles (particularly
from
> the back, I'ds appreciate it.
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Help needed with nose gear steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Jeff,
FWIW I thought the same thing when I did the install on my XL and was
also upset. However, once I got in and steered the plane around on the
ground I found no problem. And after flying it a bit I can't say I
notice any issue. Maybe the bungee looses some of its initial strength
after a couple of landings??
Frank Jones
C-GYXQ 601XL 912S
31 hours
>It would be very difficult to use the rudder during flight
and I MUST find a way to change this.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912 ul & VDO gages |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Thanks for the replies on-list and off-list. It makes me feel better knowing that
I was
on track. Its starting to scare me though that I feel that I may actually be starting
to
understand some of this electrical stuff. Especially since the most complicated
wiring I
ever did was an old Harley in the 70's. Had a grand total of 6 wires, and that
confused
me. Well I guess I better go hook up a few more wires. Thanks again.
Mike Sinclair
701 getting a whole lot closer to done.
Do Not Archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: XL Panel tilt? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
Bryan
Many Thanks
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Panel tilt?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
>
> The panel tilt in a 601XL is zero degrees.
>
> Bryan Martin
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
> >
> > Please can someone confirm the panel angle of the
> > 601XL. I've got an opportunity to acquire an electric
> > attitude gyro and want to make sure its the correct one
> >
> > Many Thanks
> >
> > Peter
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Help needed with nose gear steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com
Ben, according to ZAC the front wheel does most of the shock absorbing the
bungee only comes into play when the nose is dropped harder. I guess we'll have
to find out when we fly it.
Rich
Quoting Benford2@aol.com:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/28/2004 11:55:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> jeffpaden@madbbs.com writes:
>
>
> > on the subject of nose gear steering rods?
> >
> > Today I connected my rudder cables and nose gear steering rods and then
> > lifted the nose gear off the ground to test my controls. I was VERY upset
> > to find out that it was VERY hard to move my rudder. This is because of
> the
> > design of the CH-640 nose gear. It sits in a V and is held down by the
> > bungee. Since the steering rods are solid rods the nose gear has to move
> to
> > move the rudder. It would be very difficult to use the rudder during
> flight
> > and I MUST find a way to change this.
> >
> > I am looking for any source to purchase what I would call normal nose gear
> > steering rods, you know, the ones that have a spring in them so that in
> > flight the nose gear can stay forward and when the rudder is being used.
> > Then on the ground the weight of the engine will take the load off the V
> > that the strut sits in and the rods should then push the nose gear for
> > steering.
> >
> > If anyone knows where I can purchase these steering rods PLEASE let me
> know.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Jeff Paden
> >
> >
>
> Hi Jeff. The 801 is the same design. All you need to do is make a seat for
> the front gear out of flat stock and do not machine the V groove in it. That
>
> will take all the centering effect out of it. The real problem with the 801
> is..
> One adjusts the tension of the rudder cables with the nose gear in the full
> up
> position. Now that my engine is in place the nose gear is slightly off its
> seat, maybe 3/32" or so. My rudder cables now have a TON of slack in them. I
> am
> concerned that with a firm landing I will loose directional control cause the
>
> rudder will not be effective at all. I would call Nick but the answer will be
>
> " just fly it". The geometry of this steering set up must be flawed. The more
>
> the front gear compresses the more slack you get. I am thinking of adding
> some
> bungees in the tail to keep most of the slack out of the cables. Have any of
>
> you 601 /701 builders run into this same problem?? If so how did ya deal with
>
> it. There are a few pics of my plane on Jons web site www.CH701.com. I
> have to warn ya, if you don't think a V-8 all aluminum Ford belongs in a
> plane ya
> better not look at pics 2 & 3..
>
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
Message 25
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| Subject: | Help needed with nose gear steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
This is a well known issue with the 601 series. The answer has always been
to reduce the angle of the vee. The Vee is only there to provided self
centering which is a bit bogus 'cos the actual center depends on how much
power you got on.
My vees are very shallow angles and to be honest I can't see why you need a
vee shape at all.
I bet you have a stronger bungee than in the 601 due to the extra engine
weight so you might consider removong the vee altogether...But talk to ZAC
first!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
rbauer@INTERGATE.COM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Help needed with nose gear steering rods
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com
Ben, according to ZAC the front wheel does most of the shock absorbing the
bungee only comes into play when the nose is dropped harder. I guess we'll
have
to find out when we fly it.
Rich
Quoting Benford2@aol.com:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/28/2004 11:55:07 PM Mountain Standard Time,
> jeffpaden@madbbs.com writes:
>
>
> > on the subject of nose gear steering rods?
> >
> > Today I connected my rudder cables and nose gear steering rods and
> > then lifted the nose gear off the ground to test my controls. I was
> > VERY upset to find out that it was VERY hard to move my rudder.
> > This is because of
> the
> > design of the CH-640 nose gear. It sits in a V and is held down by
> > the bungee. Since the steering rods are solid rods the nose gear
> > has to move
> to
> > move the rudder. It would be very difficult to use the rudder
> > during
> flight
> > and I MUST find a way to change this.
> >
> > I am looking for any source to purchase what I would call normal
> > nose gear steering rods, you know, the ones that have a spring in
> > them so that in flight the nose gear can stay forward and when the
> > rudder is being used. Then on the ground the weight of the engine
> > will take the load off the V that the strut sits in and the rods
> > should then push the nose gear for steering.
> >
> > If anyone knows where I can purchase these steering rods PLEASE let
> > me
> know.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Jeff Paden
> >
> >
>
> Hi Jeff. The 801 is the same design. All you need to do is make a seat
> for
> the front gear out of flat stock and do not machine the V groove in it.
That
>
> will take all the centering effect out of it. The real problem with
> the 801 is.. One adjusts the tension of the rudder cables with the
> nose gear in the full up
> position. Now that my engine is in place the nose gear is slightly off its
> seat, maybe 3/32" or so. My rudder cables now have a TON of slack in them.
I
> am
> concerned that with a firm landing I will loose directional control cause
the
>
> rudder will not be effective at all. I would call Nick but the answer
> will be
>
> " just fly it". The geometry of this steering set up must be flawed.
> The more
>
> the front gear compresses the more slack you get. I am thinking of
> adding some bungees in the tail to keep most of the slack out of the
> cables. Have any of
>
> you 601 /701 builders run into this same problem?? If so how did ya
> deal with
>
> it. There are a few pics of my plane on Jons web site www.CH701.com. I
> have to warn ya, if you don't think a V-8 all aluminum Ford belongs in
> a plane ya better not look at pics 2 & 3..
>
>
> Ben Haas N801BH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
I mounted my flight instrument six-pack in a sheet of .093 aluminum (cut from the
wing jig) and mounted this in an opening cut in the panel. The whole six-pack
can be removed from the panel with 8 screws that screw into nutserts in the
panel. I have a frame for my radio stack in the center of the panel that helps
stiffen the panel. For the rest of my instruments, I cut a sheet of .020 and
riveted it to the panel around the edges with my instruments mounted through
both this .020 sheet and the .016 panel. I also made a channel from .020 aluminum
and riveted it to the bottom center of the panel leading forward to the firewall
to help support the radio stack and stiffen the panel. The bottom of the
panel conveniently lines up with the top of the stiffener channel on the back
of the firewall.
Bryan Martin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> I also am in the earliest stages of planning my panel. I've been purchasing
> instruments and avionics, and will soon have enough for a complete panel.
> The question I have is this: As I look at the panel itself, it is made of
> fairly thin piece of metal (.025 T6061). Is it really thick enough to
> physically support the various instruments that are attached to it? Or, is
> this simply supposed to act as a face plate, with other more bulky hardware
> used behind it to support everything?
Message 27
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| Subject: | Help needed with nose gear steering rods |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Our plane is not flying yet, but is very close (hopefuly), so we dont
have 1st hand experience with the pressure of the rudder pedals.
We had the same thought, as ALL of us when we were in that point, I am
sure, cant miss it :-) ... We just got thinking: If this will be a
problem flying (making the rudder "heavy")... had thought about
flattening the "V" notch, adding nylon runners, etc.
At the end, we concluded that if this was a design or flying problem,
for sure Mr Heintz will had changed it since the first revisions.
We only added nylon pieces where the tubes run in the angles.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
--- Frank Jones <fjones@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones"
> <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>
> Jeff,
>
> FWIW I thought the same thing when I did the install on my XL and was
> also upset. However, once I got in and steered the plane around on
> the
> ground I found no problem. And after flying it a bit I can't say I
> notice any issue. Maybe the bungee looses some of its initial
> strength
> after a couple of landings??
>
> Frank Jones
> C-GYXQ 601XL 912S
> 31 hours
>
> >It would be very difficult to use the rudder during flight
> and I MUST find a way to change this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 28
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| Subject: | Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Hello Bill
I am about to install some instruments onto my panel, and would like to know
what kind of shock mounts you bought from Reid Tool. I have the 2002
catalog, and on page 171, there is a double end male/female vibration
mounts.
Is that the one you used, and if so, what was the size, thread length and
loads?
Thank you in advance,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Steer
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Panel construction
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
One other question that may impact your decision is whether you have any
instruments that you want to shock mount. If you want to shock mount them,
you'll need to construct subpanels. I made my subpanels out of .063"
aluminum and attached them to a reinforced version of the panel ZAC supplies
with shock mounts I got at Reid Tool. There should be some notes in the
archives about shock mounting, and Bingelis has some articles on the EAA
site.
Hope this helps.
Bill
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 3/1/2004 8:09:15 AM Central Standard Time,
earthloc@att.net writes:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
> The operative word is "FLAT". I believe some of the instructions state
> "level", which is nice but at this point not necessary and "FLAT" is bad
> important. I built my table frame out of 3"X3"X3/8" thick angle iron, on
> six legs with coasters and a 3'6"X11'6"' shelf about 18' down. Then 5/8"
> plywood on top. You will need at least a 3" lip all the way around for
> clamping, etc. A little heavy but tuff and works real well. Larry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
>
>
>
Agree that flat is most important.
One way to solve flat need, is to use the two sections of an extension ladder
as the base for the plywood top. With a new 17 ft ladder, Home Depot, and the
best 3/4 plywood at H D, The 10 1/2 foot work table was done in one evening.
For longer table, use longer ladder.
Lay the plywood on the floor, remove fittings from the two ladder sections &
lay them on the plywood. Keep about 3inch edge distance for clamping to.
Drill pilot holes through the ladder rails in to the plywood at an angle, ~
12in spacing. Screw rails to the plywood with PHILIPS head sheet metal screws
about 5/8 long. Open the rail pilot hole for the screw clearance. Four corners
first.
Place two ply wood boards,4ft by ~ 10 inches, across the ladder sections &
screw or bolt them to the four rails.
Support the assembly on saw horses or make legs as you want.
What I did was to use a 2ft by 4ft folding leg table, Office Supply, at ea
end, and just "C " clamped in place.
For the level need. Shim as required, or put wood dowels in the table legs,
drill 5/16 th holes in the dowels, insert 5/16 HWS threaded bolts, washers &
nuts. Level the top surface simply by adjusting the leg bolts as needed. It is
true that basement/garage floors are NOT level.
This kind of table construction can be easily moved. Not heavy. Stays flat as
the ladder sections, Plywood and cross boards form a kind of box beam. Strong.
Run a comparison on the cost. I found it to be a wash, but went this way
because the ladder sections were straight and uniform to start with. No welding,
just cut wood & install screws. And other than the good plywood at about $30
ea. for two 4 by 8 sheets, There was not a straight piece of wood to be had.
This is just another way to go. Rather easy at that.
For motivation to have a flat work table, the Zenair news letter has had
articles on the need for airfoil straightness and no twist. Very little leeway
for
both. Difficult to correct in both cases.
Jerry Erickson, CH701SP, Tail & wings done, Fuselage next, 912ULS ready.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> For motivation to have a flat work table, the Zenair news letter has
> had articles on the need for airfoil straightness and no twist. Very
> little leeway for both. Difficult to correct in both cases.
I agree -- a flat workbench is important. However, I was told that ZAC
once built an entire 601 without any means of measuring anything, and the
thing apparently flew perfectly. Not sure if that is a combination of
fact and legend....but if there's some truth to that, there's a pretty
good fudge factor built into the design. So, I guess the lesson there is
strive for perfectly flat, and live with reasonably flat.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: 701 Work Table |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Greetinga listers
On my worktable, it is 3/4 inch best Home Depot plywood, built on a top frame
of 3 @ 12 foot 2X6 with 4 foot 2X6 on each end. This is all assembled with 3
and 1/2 inch drywall screws. The top is screwed every 8 inchs with drywall
screws. Legs are doubled 2X4 with a 1/2 inch piece of 1/2 inch plywoodscrewed
from the bottom, giving the lowershelf sides. The table then had 4 ea. full
swivel Harbor Freight 6 inch $ 6.98 special caster screwed onto 3/4 inch plwood
gussets sandwiched outboard on each leg.
Now the best part
I scrounged 6 Pony 1/2 inch pipe clamp. Use only the 1/2 inch because the 3/4
inch Pony clamps handle is cast not a sliding pin.
6 @ 1/2 pipe flanges, 6 @ 6 inch X 1/2 pipe nipples and your 6 Pony clamps
assembled together can then be
screwed into some 3/4 inch plywood gussets inboard of the legs and Voila, A
table that can be perfectly leveled in about 3 minutes and 3 minutes after that
can be rolled out of the way
I also added two 2X4 vertical braces in the center,Drywall screwed into the
top 2X6 and the bottom shelf 2X4.
E mail me off list and I will E mail pics of the caster gussets and the pony
clamp levelers
Joe Motis
601 XL
Starting wings
Message 32
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| Subject: | More flat work table...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Can somebody with a long association with Boeing either confirm or put to
rest the story that the 747 assembly building is so long that the curvature of
the Earth became a factor in construction of the building itself?
Story goes that a "level" at one end, and a "level" at the other end, would
result in a hump in the floor near the middle of the building.
Somebody enlighten us.
Thanks,
Zed Smith/701/R912/90%+ do not archive under penalty of dastardly e-mails
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Bill,
Check my web page and look under Airplane/Instrument Stiffeners. I used
.025 L's and other .025 material to stiffen it where the throttle is
anchored.. All of the instruments are mounted OK now. You can see the
rivet heads on the front view.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Howerton <Bill@Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Panel construction
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> I also am in the earliest stages of planning my panel. I've been
purchasing
> instruments and avionics, and will soon have enough for a complete panel.
> The question I have is this: As I look at the panel itself, it is made of
> fairly thin piece of metal (.025 T6061). Is it really thick enough to
> physically support the various instruments that are attached to it? Or,
is
> this simply supposed to act as a face plate, with other more bulky
hardware
> used behind it to support everything?
>
> If someone could please answer with pics of their panles (particularly
from
> the back, I'ds appreciate it.
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Bill,
Check my web page http://members.thegateway.net/cfd/ and look under
Airplane/Instrument Stiffeners. I used .025 L's and other .025 material to
stiffen it where the throttle is anchored.. All of the instruments are
mounted OK now. You can see the
rivet heads on the front view.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Howerton <Bill@Howerton.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Panel construction
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> I also am in the earliest stages of planning my panel. I've been
purchasing
> instruments and avionics, and will soon have enough for a complete panel.
> The question I have is this: As I look at the panel itself, it is made of
> fairly thin piece of metal (.025 T6061). Is it really thick enough to
> physically support the various instruments that are attached to it? Or,
is
> this simply supposed to act as a face plate, with other more bulky
hardware
> used behind it to support everything?
>
> If someone could please answer with pics of their panles (particularly
from
> the back, I'ds appreciate it.
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
My experience:
Last year a built a R/C airplane ( 2 meter glider) and put the plans to
build it in my old drafting table from college years, is completly flat
but the most "level" position is about 5 or 10 degres from horizontal.
The wings came out perfectly, no 10 washout :-)
Is the only use I have for the table, now all drawings are in CAD :-(
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive
--- JERICKSON03E@aol.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/1/2004 8:09:15 AM Central Standard Time,
> earthloc@att.net writes:
>
>
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin"
> <earthloc@att.net>
> >
> > The operative word is "FLAT". I believe some of the instructions
> state
> > "level", which is nice but at this point not necessary and "FLAT"
> is bad
> > important. I built my table frame out of 3"X3"X3/8" thick angle
> iron, on
> > six legs with coasters and a 3'6"X11'6"' shelf about 18' down.
> Then 5/8"
> > plywood on top. You will need at least a 3" lip all the way around
> for
> > clamping, etc. A little heavy but tuff and works real well. Larry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Flavin" <jflavin@intrex.net>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Wing-Looking for building tips
> >
> >
> >
>
> Agree that flat is most important.
>
> One way to solve flat need, is to use the two sections of an
> extension ladder
> as the base for the plywood top. With a new 17 ft ladder, Home Depot,
> and the
> best 3/4 plywood at H D, The 10 1/2 foot work table was done in one
> evening.
>
> For longer table, use longer ladder.
>
> Lay the plywood on the floor, remove fittings from the two ladder
> sections &
> lay them on the plywood. Keep about 3inch edge distance for clamping
> to.
>
> Drill pilot holes through the ladder rails in to the plywood at an
> angle, ~
> 12in spacing. Screw rails to the plywood with PHILIPS head sheet
> metal screws
> about 5/8 long. Open the rail pilot hole for the screw clearance.
> Four corners
> first.
>
> Place two ply wood boards,4ft by ~ 10 inches, across the ladder
> sections &
> screw or bolt them to the four rails.
>
> Support the assembly on saw horses or make legs as you want.
>
> What I did was to use a 2ft by 4ft folding leg table, Office Supply,
> at ea
> end, and just "C " clamped in place.
>
> For the level need. Shim as required, or put wood dowels in the table
> legs,
> drill 5/16 th holes in the dowels, insert 5/16 HWS threaded bolts,
> washers &
> nuts. Level the top surface simply by adjusting the leg bolts as
> needed. It is
> true that basement/garage floors are NOT level.
>
> This kind of table construction can be easily moved. Not heavy. Stays
> flat as
> the ladder sections, Plywood and cross boards form a kind of box
> beam. Strong.
>
> Run a comparison on the cost. I found it to be a wash, but went this
> way
> because the ladder sections were straight and uniform to start with.
> No welding,
> just cut wood & install screws. And other than the good plywood at
> about $30
> ea. for two 4 by 8 sheets, There was not a straight piece of wood to
> be had.
>
> This is just another way to go. Rather easy at that.
>
> For motivation to have a flat work table, the Zenair news letter has
> had
> articles on the need for airfoil straightness and no twist. Very
> little leeway for
> both. Difficult to correct in both cases.
>
> Jerry Erickson, CH701SP, Tail & wings done, Fuselage next, 912ULS
> ready.
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: More flat work table...... |
required 5, autolearn=not spam, BAYES_00)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
yes, but the answer has "LOTS" of decimal points!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZSMITH3rd@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: More flat work table......
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
>
> Can somebody with a long association with Boeing either confirm or put to
> rest the story that the 747 assembly building is so long that the
curvature of
> the Earth became a factor in construction of the building itself?
> Story goes that a "level" at one end, and a "level" at the other end,
would
> result in a hump in the floor near the middle of the building.
>
> Somebody enlighten us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zed Smith/701/R912/90%+ do not archive under penalty of dastardly e-mails
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | halogen landing/taxi lights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Add me to the list of people interested in this. The 100W variety really
sucks (the power that is).
Frank Jones, 601XL
>Does anyone have sources and part numbers for halogen lights to replace
the >sealed beams for landing and taxi lights?
>Steve Mineart, 601XL
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Panel construction |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
I don't have my receipt here, so can't tell you a part number. As I recall,
though, they were about 5/8" diameter x 1/2" long, with a 1/2" 8-32 stud on
each end. I know others have used different mounts from Reid. I chose the
1/2" stud so a standard self-locking nut would have enough grip length. The
mounts are good for 2 pounds each in shear and something like 8 pounds each
in compression. My panel, exclusive of the radio but including all of the
other instruments, weighs about 8 pounds and I used eight shock mounts on
it.
Bill
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Panel construction
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hello Bill
>
> I am about to install some instruments onto my panel, and would like to
know
> what kind of shock mounts you bought from Reid Tool. I have the 2002
> catalog, and on page 171, there is a double end male/female vibration
> mounts.
> Is that the one you used, and if so, what was the size, thread length and
> loads?
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
> Do not archive.
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: New Builder Info |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Thanks, the lacquer thinner works, but ass-a-tone works better and is not
hard on your hands. You can find all you cuts with either one. Wal-Mart
has both.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kkinney@fuse.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: New Builder Info
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <kkinney@fuse.net>
>
> Hello, I suppose most people have offered up this information, but I'll
give my spin on it.
>
>
> For clecos & used tools, I like http://www.yardstore.com/ You have to
ask for used stuff.
>
> For bits, I like http://www.panamericantool.com/ The only problem is that
there is a minimum $50 order. If you get their pneumatic cleco tool, you
shouldn't have a problem spending that.
> I use my pneum cleco tool *FAR* more than my pneum rivetter. If I were
forced to choose just one, it would be the cleco tool.
>
> FYI - Order twice as many #40 bits as you do #30 & #20. The reason is
that the full face of the #40 is used to drill pilot holes where the others
just widen the pilot hole. #40's to wear out much faster.
>
> BUY SHARPIES! TONS of them. I like the metal reinforced fine lines, but
that's just a personal preference. Just a quick note, when you wear the
marker down to the metal part, throw it AWAY!! Any attempts to use it after
that will end up scribing the aluminum in addition to leaving a line.
> (Translation - "Bad thing.")
>
> Buy laquer thinner from any paint store. It's good for taking off ZAC
labels & removing sharpie marks.
>
> Harbor Freight has good general tools. Join their Inside Track Club
($10/year) and you get an extra flyer with even cheaper prices. (If you are
computer inclined, you can hack the product codes and find out the cheapest
prices on any tool without joining the ITC.)
> For example, on a good day, you can get their 18" bending brake for $15.
>
> I recommend 'sports' Band-Aids. These are the cloth reinforced ones.
They stick much better and are able to stop anything short of arterial
bleeding.
>
>
> Just my opinion,
> Kevin Kinney
> 601XL - Filling in the cockpit with bits of aluminum
>
>
---
Message 40
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| Subject: | Questioning lift - was 601XL Flaps & hinge pins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Jeff,
I'm certain that the flap is forced up and stays up in my particular
case. I can tell by noting the relative position of the flap wrt the
ailerons in flight vs on the ground.
Frank
>The low pressure over the wing forces the
>rear edge up and it stays there throughout all flight profiles (except
>perhaps in a stall). It does not flutter.
Are we really sure???? Not about the flutter but about the low pressure
forcing the rear (trailing) edge up???? Recent discussions about gap
seals and the observation from Norm Turner (rain droplets going down
through hinge on aileron) made me reevaluate some common thinking along
the lines (Coanda Effect) that Bryan M. suggested.
A good article is:
http://www.aa.washington.edu/faculty/eberhardt/lift.htm
which points to a massive downwash over the trailing edge. Read it
(might take several readings for some sections) and see if your thinking
on "lift" remains unchallenged.
Norm and Frank, and any flying builder, tuft the wing near the trailing
edge with some yarn strands about four to six inches in length. Those
XL drivers can report if the strands stay attached, lift up at the
trailing edge, or are sucked down into the flap gap. Those with hinged
ailerons can report the same. It was suggested to use thread - if your
eyesight is keen then you might try that but I'm going to use yarn.
Take along the camera to record things, might even try a stall to watch
for separation (tuft more of the wing and see if separation begins
inboard or outboard). All sorts of interesting observations to be made.
Be cognizant that propwash might affect what you see in areas near the
fuselage.
Those with Kent Paser's book, Speed with Economy, should review his
pictures first.
Speedy tailwinds jeff
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: halogen landing/taxi lights |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec@bigpond.net.au>
There are a couple of different 250W halogen aircraft lights available. The
first type Q4631 is a designated 'aircraft landing light' and the second
type is a Q4632 which is a FAA PMA'd taxi light version of the Q4631.
You will see them being sold for over $70 USD however I found a company
called Specialty Bulb Co. (800-331-2852) which sell the Q4631 for $28 and
the Q4632 for $33.
Just remember you will need appropriate sized wire due to the increase in
current.
Wayne Glasser
Sydney - Australia
CH601-XL 5075
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: halogen landing/taxi lights
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>
> Add me to the list of people interested in this. The 100W variety really
> sucks (the power that is).
>
> Frank Jones, 601XL
>
> >Does anyone have sources and part numbers for halogen lights to replace
> the >sealed beams for landing and taxi lights?
> >Steve Mineart, 601XL
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: More flat work table...... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
.In the boeing fitness program we used to run on a quarter mile course in
one of the tunnels under that building, so it's at least that long. The
tunnel was about the diameter of a 747 fuselage. As for curvature of the
earth being a problem, I doubt it, but I can't speak with authority.
George Swinford (Boeing retiree)
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <ZSMITH3rd@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: More flat work table......
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
>
> Can somebody with a long association with Boeing either confirm or put to
> rest the story that the 747 assembly building is so long that the
curvature of
> the Earth became a factor in construction of the building itself?
> Story goes that a "level" at one end, and a "level" at the other end,
would
> result in a hump in the floor near the middle of the building.
>
> Somebody enlighten us.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Zed Smith/701/R912/90%+ do not archive under penalty of dastardly e-mails
>
>
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