Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Sun n FUN! WHo is going? (Johann)
2. 04:36 AM - Re: Sun n FUN! WHo is going? (dsherburn)
3. 04:45 AM - Building from sub assemblies (dsherburn)
4. 04:59 AM - Sun-N-Fun (Lowell Metz)
5. 06:22 AM - Re: Sun n FUN! WHo is going? (Larry McFarland)
6. 06:28 AM - Re: First Flight (Larry McFarland)
7. 07:28 AM - Re: Building from sub assemblies (Bryan Martin)
8. 07:32 AM - Re: Sun n FUN! WHo is going? (Ron DeWees)
9. 07:44 AM - Re: Building from sub assemblies (Bill Howerton)
10. 08:03 AM - Re: Building from sub assemblies (Larry Martin)
11. 08:13 AM - Re: Some thoughts on fuel lines (John M. Goodings)
12. 08:33 AM - Re: First Flight (Robert Schoenberger)
13. 08:35 AM - ch mini-z (ronnie wehba)
14. 09:16 AM - Re: First Flight (MElrod3732@aol.com)
15. 09:26 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 03/06/04 (Thomas F Marson)
16. 09:59 AM - Re: First Flight (Al Young)
17. 10:08 AM - Re: Some thoughts on fuel lines (Dave Austin)
18. 03:03 PM - Fuel Sensors (Jim)
19. 03:19 PM - Re: Fuel Sensors (Ray Montagne)
20. 03:26 PM - Re: Fuel Sensors (Scott Laughlin)
21. 05:48 PM - Re: Building from sub assemblies (Phil Maxson)
22. 07:49 PM - Alternator (Larry Martin)
23. 08:06 PM - Re: Alternator (Benford2@aol.com)
24. 08:17 PM - Re: Alternator (Jim and Lucy)
25. 10:05 PM - Fuel Probes for sale (Geronimo423@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Sun n FUN! WHo is going? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Hello Jon and list members.
I will be flying in a B757 to Sun and Fun. It is not mine, but it is the
only way at this time. Still have some final work to do on the Zenith 701.
Look forward to meet you all.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun n FUN! WHo is going?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Hap, Zed and all....
Who will be joining me at Sun n Fun????
Figure it would be a great central meeting place for all of us builders to
meet in person... (well, kinda centralized location, I guess!)
Im going Thursday thru Saturday... maybe not all of those days... it IS
Florida so some time spent at Busch Gardens and things like that I suppose..
Jon
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Sun n FUN! WHo is going? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
> "I will be flying in a B757 to Sun and Fun. It is not mine, ">
Good one!
ds
Message 3
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| Subject: | Building from sub assemblies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
I've been considering an aircraft build project for a while.
I want to build, but want to build from a kit. I'd be interested
in hearing from other who've built by buying the "sub assembly"
kits.
This option gives me the ability to spread the capital out over
time. I like the 601 and 701's. I'm kind of leaning towards the
701 for various reasons.
Thanks,
Dan
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lowell Metz" <lowellmetz@earthlink.net>
List,
I will be at Sun-N-Fun again this year , camped in the ultralite area. I'll
once again be camped with the rest of the U/L judges and will provide shade,
tell lies, perpetuate aviation myths, and engage in other tom foolery as the
situation calls for. I welcome one and all to stop in. I'll set up camp Sunday
the 11th and post a sharp watch for anyone that even looks like a 701 enthusiast.
My campsite is recognized by a dome tent tucked under a silver 10 x 20 canopy
and I'll be flying a US Navy flag. A white sedan will be parked next my hooch.
The 701 will not be there this year as I'll not have the 40 hours flown
off. ( DARN IT ANYWAY )
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Lowell Metz
Venice FL.
701 / 912 S ( Has flown but down for a voltage regulator )
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Sun n FUN! WHo is going? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Lee and I are going to be at Sun and Fun Thursday thru Saturday.
Larry McFarland
601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun n FUN! WHo is going?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
>
> Hap, Zed and all....
>
> Who will be joining me at Sun n Fun????
>
> Figure it would be a great central meeting place for all of us builders to
> meet in person... (well, kinda centralized location, I guess!)
>
> Im going Thursday thru Saturday... maybe not all of those days... it IS
> Florida so some time spent at Busch Gardens and things like that I
suppose..
>
> Jon
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
Congratulations Walt,
It's a large step from the bliss of building to the joy of flying.
Fly safe,
Larry McFarland
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Building from sub assemblies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/7/04 7:39 AM, dsherburn at dsherburn@charter.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
> I've been considering an aircraft build project for a while.
> I want to build, but want to build from a kit. I'd be interested
> in hearing from other who've built by buying the "sub assembly"
> kits.
>
I built from subassemblies. First I built the tail feathers then the wings
and then the fuselage. One advantage of building the wings before the
fuselage is the wings can be easily stored up out of the way to get room to
work on the fuselage. Also, the wing center section comes with the wing kit
and you need this to complete the fuselage anyway.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Nearly done.
do not archive.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Sun n FUN! WHo is going? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Sun n Fun attendees!
I had originally hoped to fly my 601 to Sun n Fun but it looks more likely
that I will get a shot at completion before Oshkosh. I live in Atlanta, Ga
and may be in the "flight path" of listers that may be going to Sun n Fun.
If anyone needs to refill or take a break or throw rocks at my project I
will be glad to meet them at the airport and swap lies.
I might take the Mooney to the last few days of Sun n Fun, but will use
most of the time to try to get my plane finished. Hope to meet some of you
here or maybe in Florida.
Ron DeWees
601 HDS td Jab 3300 in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sun n FUN! WHo is going?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Lee and I are going to be at Sun and Fun Thursday thru Saturday.
>
> Larry McFarland
> 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
> Do not archive
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Building from sub assemblies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
I did the opposite from Brian. I built the fuselage first, and am going to
build the wings next. My reasoning was I could build the fuselage, get it
on its gear, the push it out of the garage while I built the wings. Brian
is right, the fuselage requires the wing spar, but, Zenith was willing to
sell me the wing spar separately, and then gave me full credit for the spar
when I ordered the wing kit.
Bill Howerton - N714BH
601XL corvair
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
> >
> > I've been considering an aircraft build project for a while.
> > I want to build, but want to build from a kit. I'd be interested
> > in hearing from other who've built by buying the "sub assembly"
> > kits.
> >
> I built from subassemblies. First I built the tail feathers then the wings
> and then the fuselage. One advantage of building the wings before the
> fuselage is the wings can be easily stored up out of the way to get room
to
> work on the fuselage. Also, the wing center section comes with the wing
kit
> and you need this to complete the fuselage anyway.
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
> Airframe construction complete.
> Panel and engine installed.
> Nearly done.
> do not archive.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Building from sub assemblies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I'm building a 701. So far I have finished the rudder, stab, elevator, rear
fuselage and am currently working on the cabin. My wings are going to be
PegaStol, I have them. Engine is a Subaru.
I am a first time builder for a sheet metal aircraft. I have built three
fiberglass kits. There is no comparison, the glass kits are more physical
work, but easier in complexity. Advise, really study the plans and learn
how to read them. It can be very confusing. For every hour you spend
working, you will spend two hours figuring it out. You can't afford to
screw up, you don't get a spare anything.
If I had one major complaint it would be that they talk part numbers too
much without the name of the part. Such as (not a real example) "Cut the
7f3-1sp to the template, attach the 7f11-4 to the 8fl-5 and cleco" and they
hardly every tell you when you can rivet. It may be a small thing, but it
really slows me down always having to look up the part number to find out
what they are talking about. I don't have that good of a memory, but I can
remember what an upright, and floor channel is but not the numbers for them.
To them the numbers are the name. They see it many times, I only see it
once. You will also need more specific tools than they tell you up front,
like a rivet squeezer, fly cutters, different type clamps, unibit, hole saws
and so on.
Overall, it's a different learning experience which is taking more time than
I expected. But, one day soon I will have a fine aircraft.
----- Original Message -----
From: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Building from sub assemblies
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
> I've been considering an aircraft build project for a while.
> I want to build, but want to build from a kit. I'd be interested
> in hearing from other who've built by buying the "sub assembly"
> kits.
>
> This option gives me the ability to spread the capital out over
> time. I like the 601 and 701's. I'm kind of leaning towards the
> 701 for various reasons.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
---
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Some thoughts on fuel lines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
In yesterday's Zenith-list, there was mention of using Tygon fuel lines in
the wings, and metal fuel lines, not rubber. Personally, I would NEVER
use Tygon for fuel lines. TYGON is a trade name; originally, I think it
referred to polymerized CHF groups (hydrogen-carbon-fluorine, chemically
sort of half way to Teflon which is polymerized CF2 groups). The trouble
is, I have seen several different kinds of polymerized plastic tubing
referred to generically as tygon. Some of these go yellow and brittle
with age. That occurred in my labs where the tubing was not exposed to UV
from sunlight. I have heard rumours that some of the additives in mogas
(ordinary car gas) attack tygon. When Chris Heintz had a vertical tygon
tube serving as a fuel gauge on the panels of his earlier 600/601s and
701s, I believe I heard reports that some of them had gone yellow, brittle
and sprung a leak. Thus, if I had tygon fuel lies, I would want to
inspect them fairly frequently (hard to do inside a wing?).
What about METAL? It is probably fine if you have put in appropriate
bends to allow for vibration flexing, although metal lines are apt to
crack at the terminal fittings in my experience. Maybe I didn't use the
right fittings, or did them up too tight; my experience is with Swagelock
fittings. To my mind, the best fuel lines are reinforced RUBBER, BUT only
those with the words "fuel line" stamped on the rubber; there are many
different chemical compositions of rubber. Even then, I agree that
frequent inspection for deterioration of the rubber is necessary. Let me
end with the usual disclaimer: this is just my two cents worth! There are
going to be people out there whose aircraft experience is much greater
than mine. They might be encouraged to comment on my remarks.
John Goodings,
C-FGPJ, CH601HD (first flight 6 October, 2003).
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Walt . . . congradualtions!!!!! It's reports like this that spurs us on.
Happy flying. Hap Schoenberger do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake@earthlink.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: First Flight
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake@earthlink.net>
>
> Greetings all,
>
> Yesterday I had the FAA come out from the local MIDO and perform the final
> inspection and issue the airworthiness certificate on my CH 701/912S. The
> two inspectors were nice guys, gave the plane and the paperwork a close
> review, and signed it off. They both left
> saying they want to build one.
>
> Today was decent from the weather standpoint...a little bit breezy, but
> straight down the runway. My wife, Deb, and I went up to PAE about 9:00
AM.
> I
> made one taxi down the full length of the runway to be sure everything
still
> felt right. The next time down I lifted a few feet in the air then landed
> again. The time was right, so I taxied over to the long runway and took
off.
> Everything was uneventful and I orbited the pattern once before coming in
> for a landing back on the short runway. No surprises at all...it performs
> just as advertised. 10 knots straight down the runway made for some pretty
> impressive take-off and landing rolls,
>
> I am going to be out of town for a week starting tomorrow, so it will be a
> while before I can actually check out the numbers and performance.
>
> Regards,
>
> Walt Cannon
> Seattle,WA
> Bonanza N7386B
> Zenith 701 N701WD
>
>
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
anyone know of a website about the early models such as the ch-50 mini-z,ch 100
mono-z ect?
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: MElrod3732@aol.com
Congratulations Walt!
If you don't mind me asking-Where did you buy your 912S and what kind of
problems (if any) did you have with the installation of this engine?
Thanks in advance
Mike E.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 03/06/04 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
If you insist on putting Strobe power supplies or hoses or anyother
component that may logically expect to fail or need to be inspected you are
on a fools errand to make them unaccessable. You must put access doors or
panels in .
Better yet -------- why put Strobe power supplies in the wings. They do
fail, mine have. Run shielded cable in he wing and put the power supplies in
the cabin.
I am doing that now but didn't originally and it cost me. Tom Marson
needs inspection annually, that has no provision to be inspected is
> unacceptable. Any info on size, layout and rivnuts, golden rules etc.
appreciated
>
> Even with metal fuel lines, I still want to get to that fitting.
>
> Also, what about the strobe flasher in the wingtip? Drilling out rivets to
> replace a burned out flasher unit seems like a hard way to go. Whats the
> opinions on that one?
>
> Cheers
> Joe motis
> 601 XL
> Wings,Wings,Wings!
>
>
> ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Walt- Congratulations on your "First Flight". Your description of the
flight is exactly how I day dream mine will be. Best wishes for all future
flights in your 701. Al Young 601XL. 70% done 80% to go.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Some thoughts on fuel lines |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
John et al,
There is a specific Tygon tubing for gasoline. It is a yellowish colour. I
put it in as the sight gauge tube after the original Zenair tube decayed and
emptied my fuel tank after three years. The correct Tygon is still plyable
and uncracked after eight more years.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim <aspen1150@yahoo.com>
What's the proper or appropriate way to check fuel
gage sensors before closing wings for the last time.
I took my sensors back out and connected on the work
bench but can get no ready past empty when moving the
float up and down,
These are ADO sensors supplied by ZAC
Thanks to anyone with an answer to this.
Jim
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sensors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 3/7/04 3:02 PM, "Jim" <aspen1150@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim <aspen1150@yahoo.com>
>
> What's the proper or appropriate way to check fuel
> gage sensors before closing wings for the last time.
> I took my sensors back out and connected on the work
> bench but can get no ready past empty when moving the
> float up and down,
> These are ADO sensors supplied by ZAC
> Thanks to anyone with an answer to this.
> Jim
>
Hello Jim,
I tested mine with a volt/ohm meter. Just connect the meter and verify the
sender with the tank inverted and right side up. Make sure the float moves
to the limit when you flip the tank on the bench.
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300
Construction Log & Photos: <http://home.earthlink.net/~ac6qj/zodiac>
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 20
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
----Original Message Follows----
From: Jim <aspen1150@yahoo.com>What's the proper or appropriate way to check
fuel
gage sensors before closing wings for the last time.
Hi Jim:
I just today closed up my right wing with the fuel tank and sender inside.
Before installing the tank, I hooked up the gauge and the sender to a 12V
power supply. I had a problem with the ground, so I gas-welded the
extension to the top plate before installing it in the tank. Make sure you
are getting a good ground or the gauge won't work. After I got it to work,
my gauge read exactly on Zero at bottom travel and exactly on full at full
travel before installing in the tank.
Also, after installing the sender, I hooked everything up to make sure it
was working. I had to take it apart three or four times before everything
was adjusted so it would read all the way down to empty and all the way
full. I tilted the tank and turned it upside down to get the full travel of
the float. You can shorten the float rod, then bend it up or down for final
adjustments.
I'm assuming you are installing the sender on the top of the tank like the
new assembly manual shows and not the side of the tank like the old manual
shows. I'm also assuming you are building the Zodiac XL since you didn't
say. My senders and gauges came from Wicks, so they may not be the same
brand as yours, but the principle is the same.
I put some photos of the sender installation on my "wings" page.
Good luck,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now!
http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
Message 21
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| Subject: | Building from sub assemblies |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Maxson" <pmaxpmax@hotmail.com>
This is what I have done and I've been totally satisfied. There are some
increased costs for crating and shipping several kits vs. one big one, but
I'm sure the savings of not taking out a loan for the total amount has more
than offset those costs. One small problem with doing it this way was they
ship all the nuts and bolts at once with the fuselage kit. There are a few
times I wanted to bolt something together and the bolts were coming later.
All I did was cleco things together until later and then drill out the
smaller holes to the correct size for the bolts when they arrived.
Phil Maxson
601XL, Corvair Engine
Fuse 90% - Rebuilding the Engine
>From: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Building from sub assemblies
>Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:39:36 -0500
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "dsherburn" <dsherburn@charter.net>
>
>I've been considering an aircraft build project for a while.
>I want to build, but want to build from a kit. I'd be interested
>in hearing from other who've built by buying the "sub assembly"
>kits.
Message 22
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
What is the smallest, lightest weight alternator I can use on a Subaru engine?
What kind of car does it come out of? I think it's out of a Toyota. But I'm
not sure of year or model. Must be a 4 or 5 grooved pulley. I'm not concerned
about brackets, I build my own.
---
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 3/7/2004 8:50:11 PM Mountain Standard Time,
earthloc@att.net writes:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
> What is the smallest, lightest weight alternator I can use on a Subaru
> engine? What kind of car does it come out of? I think it's out of a Toyota.
But
> I'm not sure of year or model. Must be a 4 or 5 grooved pulley. I'm not
> concerned about brackets, I build my own.
>
>
I am running a one wire East Cost Alternator on my engine. it is light and
very robust. 60 amps I think. You can see pics of it mounted on my motor at
CH701.com As for the 4-5 grooved pulley. Are ya talking about a serpetine groove
or do you need 4-5 V belts??
Ben Haas. n801BH
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
At 09:48 PM 3/7/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
>What is the smallest, lightest weight alternator I can use on a Subaru
>engine? What kind of car does it come out of? I think it's out of a
>Toyota. But I'm not sure of year or model. Must be a 4 or 5 grooved
>pulley. I'm not concerned about brackets, I build my own.
>
>
>---
Here is about the smallest one available
http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/corvair/dynamo.html
Guess it depends on how much power you need.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont.
ch601hds
Message 25
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| Subject: | Fuel Probes for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Geronimo423@aol.com
Scratch builders:
I have (2) of the fuel probes as supplied by ZAC for sale. These are brand
new and the boxes are unopened. I've decided to go with capacitive probes. Any
one interested in making a reasonable offer?
Roger Parnow
Zodiac XL
do not archive
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