---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/22/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:51 AM - Personal Altitude Record (Weston, Jim) 2. 08:07 AM - Re: Oil coolers (Mike Fothergill) 3. 08:38 AM - Re: Personal Altitude Record (Bill Cardell) 4. 08:44 AM - Re: Personal Altitude Record () 5. 11:48 AM - Re: dual stick option/ (nhulin) 6. 02:23 PM - Re: Oil coolers (Rick) 7. 05:22 PM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ (Ray Montagne) 8. 05:41 PM - Re: Oil coolers (Mike Fothergill) 9. 05:42 PM - plans (ronnie wehba) 10. 06:00 PM - Rotax Coolant Leak - The Answer From Lockwood (WAYNE BEATTIE) 11. 06:06 PM - Re: plans (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) 12. 06:43 PM - The rain on Wayne falls mainly on his plane... (Jeff Small) 13. 07:14 PM - Re: The rain on Wayne falls mainly on his plane... (Mark Stauffer) 14. 07:44 PM - Re: plans (Larry Martin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:26 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Personal Altitude Record From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" For those interested in the performance of a CH601HDS, I took mine to a new record altitude on Saturday, which was also a personal record in a light aircraft. I climbed to 14,000 ft. She was still climbing at that altitude, but just barely (approx. 150 ft/min). I leveled off...Not that there was much difference between climb and level...and it indicated 85 mph. I haven't tried to calculate the true airspeed. Partly because I don't have an OAT gage. It was cold though. 75 degrees on the ground but I was getting cold at altitude. I'm guessing 25 to 30 degrees. Oh ya, the prop is pitched at 14.5 degrees. I could get a bit better climb if I reduced it some. Jim Weston CH601HDS w/Stratus Subaru & 3 blade warp drive Concord, Ga. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:42 AM PST US From: Mike Fothergill Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil coolers --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill Hi; I don't think the problem is the size of the oil cooler. The air must be directed through it to a low pressure area. I do not see anything in this installation that will do that. Mike UHS Spinners CH-601HDS Rick wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick > > Hi guys. > The Hobbs on my Zodie HD clicked past the 20 mark this morning. I'm half > way to the magic number 40 when I can finally get outta this 50 mile > circle. All's going well, except the Jabiru 3300's CHT and oil temps > are still hotter than I want to see. At 2750- 2900 RPM's my hottest > cylinder runs about 335 degrees and the oil temp is about 230 degrees. > Lower RPM's yield CHT's 0f 250-300 and oil temps of 180. > I'd like to go to a larger oil cooler, the one that's in it is pretty > puny. I called the local Jabiru dealer in Fresno and he emailed me a pic > of his installation: http://www.lightflyers.com/oilcooler.jpg , a much > heftier multi-core setup. > I know a lot of you guys have gone down this road before, so I'm asking > for suggestions on what and where to pick up the right oil cooler. I'm > gonna hit a couple of the local race car suppliers tomorrow and see what > they have, but if any of you have already done the research and have any > thoughts, I'm all ears... errr, eyes. > > Thanks, > Rick Pitcher > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:38 AM PST US From: Bill Cardell Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Personal Altitude Record --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell That's encouraging info, Jim. I've got the stratus and warp drive, but in an HD in CO. So I'll need that altitude! do not archive Bill Cardell (TurboDog's Dad) bill@flyinmiata.com Flyin' Miata 1-800-359-6957 (sales only) 970-242-3800 (tech support) http://flyinmiata.com http://flyinprotege.com -----Original Message----- From: Weston, Jim [mailto:Jim.Weston@delta.com] Subject: Zenith-List: Personal Altitude Record --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" For those interested in the performance of a CH601HDS, I took mine to a new record altitude on Saturday, which was also a personal record in a light aircraft. I climbed to 14,000 ft. She was still climbing at that altitude, but just barely (approx. 150 ft/min). I leveled off...Not that there was much difference between climb and level...and it indicated 85 mph. I haven't tried to calculate the true airspeed. Partly because I don't have an OAT gage. It was cold though. 75 degrees on the ground but I was getting cold at altitude. I'm guessing 25 to 30 degrees. Oh ya, the prop is pitched at 14.5 degrees. I could get a bit better climb if I reduced it some. Jim Weston CH601HDS w/Stratus Subaru & 3 blade warp drive Concord, Ga. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:43 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Personal Altitude Record From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: That's good. I've been to 13,300 twice in my HDS, Rotax 912. GGP ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:48:30 AM PST US From: "nhulin" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" Mike and Tony, I've just installed the dual stick option and my sticks clear the bottom of the IP by about 15 - 20mm. My aileron torque tube may be a bit low because I was working off the 12/01 version of the drawings and I know that there are revised numbers on the newer ones. My numbers are 165mm for the front of the torque tube and not 169 as one of the update indicates. Even so, that only accounts for 4mm. If I have time I'll check for sure the distance from the floor to the centre of the torque tube For those of you contemplating the dual stick option and have not installed the centre spar section, it is MUCH easier to be able to remove the centre spar and work on it outside the plane. Just cleco it in place and don't rivet until you absolutely have to. I'd like to post some photos on the photo share but my 1 y.o daughter took a liking to my digital camera which is now in the techospital recovering from the encounter. Actually, the recovery process simply involves relocating the damage from the camera to my wallet but that can be a story for another campfire. ..neil Cincinnati 601XL/Corvair - Fuselage and stuff --- Email certified virus free when sent from original author. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:33 PM PST US From: Rick Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil coolers --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Mike Fothergill wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill > >Hi; >I don't think the problem is the size of the oil cooler. The air must be >directed through it to a low pressure area. I do not see anything in >this installation that will do that. > The pic wasn't of my Zodie's installation, it was from a Jabiru. I included it to show the size and type of oil cooler that Jabiru is now using on their 3300's. Any thoughts on where to get one similar to the one in the pic? The one that came with miy 3300 is too puny to do the job. Rick P. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 3/22/04 11:47 AM, "nhulin" wrote: > For those of you contemplating the dual stick option and have not installed > the centre spar section, it is MUCH easier to be able to remove the centre > spar and work on it outside the plane. Just cleco it in place and don't > rivet until you absolutely have to. Thanks much for this suggestion Neil!!! DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL, Jabiru 3300 Construction Log & Photos: Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:23 PM PST US From: Mike Fothergill Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Oil coolers --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill Hi; Try motorcycle performance shops. Mike Rick wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick > > Mike Fothergill wrote: > > >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill > > > >Hi; > >I don't think the problem is the size of the oil cooler. The air must be > >directed through it to a low pressure area. I do not see anything in > >this installation that will do that. > > > The pic wasn't of my Zodie's installation, it was from a Jabiru. I > included it to show the size and type of oil cooler that Jabiru is now > using on their 3300's. > Any thoughts on where to get one similar to the one in the pic? The one > that came with miy 3300 is too puny to do the job. > > Rick P. > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:49 PM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Zenith-List: plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" OK guys have made up my mind to order a set of 701 plans, anything i need to know before starting construction?? I have built a team minimax and a team airbike, so i do know the building processes' So' are the plans good or ??, and yes I can read plans very well. so I am asking are there any weird things on,about the plans I need to know about???,, thanks ron w in west tx. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:17 PM PST US From: WAYNE BEATTIE Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax Coolant Leak - The Answer From Lockwood --> Zenith-List message posted by: WAYNE BEATTIE This is a "good news/bad news" answer for me. The good news is that while I have the engine off the motor mount to repair the cracked tube, I can fix the coolant leak. The bad news is that I have to dis-assemble half of the motor the to fix it. What is leaking is the water pump rotary seal. Item #4 on page 66 of the exploded assembly drawing. This requires removing the rear casing (Ignition housing assembly) and flywheel along with the stator, starter and various other coolant related items. This could be done on a pusher with the engine mounted, but having replaced the stator a while back, on the aircraft, I won't work in such tight quarters again. Kerry at Lockwood started walking me through the replacement process, but at a point not far into it, I asked him if it would be just easier to pull the whole housing assembly (7 bolts and a tap from a rubber mallet) and ship it to Lockwood. He said that the process of replacing this part can be tricky. That made the case for sending it to the experts (My wife will be happier as well). Of course this means I must remove the motor to accomplish the full removal of the housing. I asked him for the value of the assembly for shipping insurance and he indicated it would be valued at about $1500. He indicated that he could turn it around in his shop in two or three days. I'm going to try to beat the expected Sun & Fun delay and get this thing to him early next week. Also for you Rotax guys, a bit more information. I asked if I should replace the coolant hoses while I have it apart and he indicated that after 7 years I was about due to replace them anyway. Also the rubber isolation bushings on the motor mount would not be a bad idea at this time. I asked if this is a common problem and he indicated that it is not that common. But, he said that a contributing factor could be the periods of in-activity during the winter months. Even though the aircraft is stored in a warm basement, he indicated that these engines want to be run often once they start to be used. Inactivity could lead to seal issues like I have experienced. As for the motor mount crack, I noticed an almost imperceptible imperfection in the paint radiating around the tube at the tip of the gusset on the top pilot side. Cleaning the paint to bare metal revealed an almost un-noticeable hairline about 3/8" long radiating in both directions from the tip of the gusset weld. It was caught early and should be repairable. Note to self (and others). Paint the motor mount a bright, light color (white or similar). I painted mine gloss black because it looked classy. But, I got worried about how I would see cracks. So I overpainted the hight stress gusset areas with gloss white last winter. That is how I found the defect more easily when it happened. Anyone remember if there was a mod to the motor mount to strengthen these areas. I thought it was in the newsletter, but I can't find it. Can anyone help? I will make it to Sentimental Journey, Lock Haven, Pa. for the first annual Zenith Fly-In in June. Ready Jeff? Wayne N601WB ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:14 PM PST US From: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: plans --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com My only advice is that you get a COMPLETE, up-to-date set with ALL revisions as of the date you order. As I understand the current setup, you'll get a CD with assembly photos. These are invaluable. However, just remember that it is still likely that there small "mistakes" you will discover. That's the best part of this list. Most of us have been there, done that, said a few choice words, etc. Some of the "instructions" will require several readings. You will get up some morning ready to attack the world but your brain just will not allow comprehension of the written word......consult the wizards who inhabit this list. After we insult you for a week or so we'll offer a collective solution. Maybe. Welcome to Rivetville!! Zed Smith/701/R912/90% or there abouts DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:38 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: The rain on Wayne falls mainly on his plane... Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:46:05 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" Unless it's leaking from his water pump seal... >I will make it to Sentimental Journey, Lock Haven, Pa. for the first annual Zenith Fly-In in June. Ready Jeff? Ready Wayne. Sorry, private reminder. For those who would like to think ahead (and forget this miserable cold wx here in the East) Sentimental Journey is held toward the end of June at KLHV, the home of the old Piper factory. In PA we call it Cub Haven. Best flyin around if you like things inexpensive and low key. Affordable food, bomb drop contests (rather hard for the 601 bunch but a 701 should handle it easily), entertainment every night; in other words, lots of fun. Usually a Wednesday through Saturday; camp under your a/c. About five 601's were headed in last year when the skies opened up and eliminated the chance to fly in. This year we'll just try again. do not archive jeff ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:39 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: The rain on Wayne falls mainly on his plane... QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 tests=BAYES_44 pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 BAYES_44 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 44 to 50% [score: 0.4932] --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" Jeff, do you have a date? Are Cherokees welcome? ;-) I don't have my Zenith ready but I do have the Cherokee. I would love to see other Zeniths also. Let us know. Mark Stauffer 601XL Tail finished, working on fuselage Odenton, MD Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Small Subject: Zenith-List: The rain on Wayne falls mainly on his plane... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" Sorry, private reminder. For those who would like to think ahead (and forget this miserable cold wx here in the East) Sentimental Journey is held toward the end of June at KLHV, the home of the old Piper factory. In PA we call it Cub Haven. do not archive jeff ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:32 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: plans QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 testsX-Barracuda-Spam-Report: Rule breakdown below pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" I'm about 50% through my 701 building process. You are right about reading a couple of times, four or five is more like it. There are two areas that have run me crazy. The plans refer to part numbers without descriptions too much. Keep you pick list handy. Because when they reference four or five part numbers in a row you will have to stop and look them up unless you have them committed to memory like they do. The other thing I wish they would say is when and when not to rivet. I have rivetted several parts only to find out later, that wasn't such a good idea. I'm not fussing too much, this is my third kit and Zac is no better or worse than any of them. Do not Archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: plans > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com > > My only advice is that you get a COMPLETE, up-to-date set with ALL revisions > as of the date you order. > As I understand the current setup, you'll get a CD with assembly photos. > These are invaluable. > However, just remember that it is still likely that there small "mistakes" > you will discover. That's the best part of this list. Most of us have been > there, done that, said a few choice words, etc. > Some of the "instructions" will require several readings. You will get up > some morning ready to attack the world but your brain just will not allow > comprehension of the written word......consult the wizards who inhabit this list. > After we insult you for a week or so we'll offer a collective solution. Maybe. > Welcome to Rivetville!! > > Zed Smith/701/R912/90% or there abouts DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ---