---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/24/04: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:03 AM - T throttle (Johann) 2. 01:41 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ (Jonathan Starke) 3. 02:05 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ (Mick Kaye) 4. 02:28 AM - Re: New Zenith in the sky (Benford2@aol.com) 5. 05:29 AM - Re: New Zenith in the sky (Fred or Sandy Hulen) 6. 05:43 AM - Re: New Zenith in the sky (Al Young) 7. 05:51 AM - Re: New Zenith in the sky (caspainhower@aep.com) 8. 07:47 AM - Re: New Zenith in the sky (David Barth) 9. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Re: dual stick option/ (Gary Gower) 10. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (Gary Gower) 11. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ (Gary Gower) 12. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ (Gary Gower) 13. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (Keith Ashcraft) 14. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (john H) 15. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (David Barth) 16. 12:43 PM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (Mick Kaye) 17. 02:14 PM - Re: New Zenith in the sky N801BH (RURUNY@aol.com) 18. 02:14 PM - Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure (royt.or@netzero.com) 19. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (ronnie wehba) 20. 03:07 PM - dual stick option (mike honer) 21. 03:16 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure (88tierra) 22. 03:47 PM - Re: New Zenith in the sky (Monty Graves) 23. 04:08 PM - Re: T throttle (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) 24. 04:32 PM - Re: T throttle (Frank Jones) 25. 04:43 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure (WAYNE BEATTIE) 26. 06:01 PM - Re: T throttle (Jon Croke) 27. 07:01 PM - Re: T throttle (ronnie wehba) 28. 07:11 PM - Re: dual stick option (Larry Martin) 29. 07:47 PM - Re: dual stick option (Ray Montagne) 30. 07:50 PM - Dual Sticks (Dale Carlson) 31. 08:55 PM - Re: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure (Peter Dunning) 32. 10:01 PM - center stick (john butterfield) 33. 10:15 PM - zenith-list: center stick (Richard Vetterli) 34. 10:24 PM - Re: center stick (Dr. Perry Morrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:56 AM PST US From: "Johann" Subject: Zenith-List: T throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" Hello list members. I am about to start my panel arrangement on my 701, and have a question about the T throttle from Zenith. If using th T throttle, do you need to have your hand on the throttle lever all the time? Is a friction control throttle nessesary? Thanks in advance. Johann G. Iceland. Zenith 701 www.fisflug.tk ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:20 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Dirk, If you are interested in using the BMW engine, contact Frans Groottepas, he has one on a Trike, and has added fuel injection as well. Jonathan Cape Town (About to start Zodiac XL) > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > Think I'll do that Gary, hate to change anything on a good design, those controls are put that way for a reason, I'm sure, just curious. > Like I said, I'm left handed, but flying from the right seat should be ok, just arange the panel a bit different. > Have you thought about a T throttle arangement? like the one in Piper? I just dont like the push pull one. > How are you getting along with the building? does the 400 hr build time hold true? > I am looking into putting the BMW R 1150 in my 701, engine specs look good. > Dirk in Africa. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Gower > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:47 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Dirk, > > I think that the Y stick is a great idea, for most of the pilots looks > strange, but here, even an owner of a Kitfox 6 liked the idea, less > complexity and easy to get in and out the plane, he wants a flight in > our plane, once is ready, just to give the Y a "flying" try. > > A bet all of us thinked at least once in the dual sticks, but you > should first try the Y... > Just a comment > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > Do not archive. > > --- Dirk Slabbert wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > > > > > Talking about dual sticks, will it make sense in a 701? did anyone > > try this before? > > Thanks, > > Dirk. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: nhulin > > To: Zenith-List@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:47 PM > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" > > > > Mike and Tony, > > > > I've just installed the dual stick option and my sticks clear the > > bottom of > > the IP by about 15 - 20mm. My aileron torque tube may be a bit low > > because I > > was working off the 12/01 version of the drawings and I know that > > there are > > revised numbers on the newer ones. My numbers are 165mm for the > > front of the > > torque tube and not 169 as one of the update indicates. Even so, > > that only > > accounts for 4mm. If I have time I'll check for sure the distance > > from the > > floor to the centre of the torque tube > > > > For those of you contemplating the dual stick option and have not > > installed > > the centre spar section, it is MUCH easier to be able to remove the > > centre > > spar and work on it outside the plane. Just cleco it in place and > > don't > > rivet until you absolutely have to. > > > > I'd like to post some photos on the photo share but my 1 y.o > > daughter took a > > liking to my digital camera which is now in the techospital > > recovering from > > the encounter. Actually, the recovery process simply involves > > relocating the > > damage from the camera to my wallet but that can be a story for > > another > > campfire. > > > > ..neil > > Cincinnati > > 601XL/Corvair - Fuselage and stuff > > > > > > --- > > Email certified virus free when sent from original author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:50 AM PST US From: "Mick Kaye" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mick Kaye" Hia all, I'm a new member to the group, Can anyone send me a copy of 601UL build manual on CD as last week I took delivery of a kit and all I have is the dozen or so A4 pages which are not much help, also the installation notes for UL wing LE tanks about which I have nothing. Thanks Mick ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:53 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Zenith in the sky --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com Another Zenith 801 has cleared the grips of gravity........ N801BH with a V-8 NASCAR Ford in it has flown the coop. Pics of it are at CH701.com. Look for Ben Haas and click on them. What a feeling !!!!!!!!! and yes, that is airforce two in the background...... Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:25 AM PST US From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Zenith in the sky --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" > Another Zenith 801 has cleared the grips of gravity........ N801BH with a V-8 > NASCAR Ford in it has flown the coop. > Ben Haas . ++ Wow, it's really great to see so many Zenith aircraft taking flight this year. Congratulations Ben! Enjoy the feeling and keep the rest of us posted. Fred Hulen do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:29 AM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Zenith in the sky --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Ben- Congratulations! Many happy flights to you. Let us know some numbers when you get off that cloud your on. Al Young- 601XL 80% there. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Zenith in the sky From: caspainhower@aep.com 03/24/2004 08:50:55 AM --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com Another Zenith 801 has cleared the grips of gravity........ N801BH with a V-8 NASCAR Ford in it has flown the coop. Pics of it are at CH701.com. Look for Ben Haas and click on them. What a feeling !!!!!!!!! and yes, that is airforce two in the background...... Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy. Congratulations! What an awesome looking machine. The paint job is a good compliment for the NASCAR engine. Craig S. N601XS, 601XL 0-235 lyc, tail and wings done, fusilage in progress. Do Not Archive This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:16 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Zenith in the sky --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Congratulations Ben! I have seen photos of your bird and she is a real beauty. I look forward to hearing further reports. Have fun! David do not archive --- Benford2@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com > > Another Zenith 801 has cleared the grips of > gravity........ N801BH with a V-8 > NASCAR Ford in it has flown the coop. Pics of it > are at CH701.com. Look for > Ben Haas and click on them. What a feeling > !!!!!!!!! and yes, that is > airforce two in the background...... > > Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy. > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:01 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: dual stick option/ --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Good points, but looking at our 701 cabin, that basically is much like the plans nad photos of the ZAC pages, I cant find any of your points: In our plane the Rotax 912S has no carb heat, the flap level is in the floor easy reach by the left hand, the elevator trim is also near the (left) thottle handle in the left side of the panel, I think there is no swap hands needed in our case... the right hand is always in the control stick and the left hand is never to far from the throtlle, just when the flaps are moved. The only control we have in the center of the panel is the choke, the idea is when engine is cold, to pull the choke with the right hand while we start the engine with the left hand, throttle in idle... ones the engine is running the left hand moves from the key to the throttle (less than 2 inches away). (This is fully tested with some hours of engine noises, day dreaming in the cabin :-) :-) Maybe we are talking of apples and oranges, because of diferent panel arrangment and/or engine used, maybe yours is a 601. But any comments welcome. No flying experience yet in the 701, but hopefully soon. Saludos Gary Gower. --- nhulin wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" > > Gary, > > I agree that the centre stick is a great idea and I liked my flight > in > N9601Z. There are only a couple of points that swayed my decision > towards > dual sticks: > > - On a go around you need to get the carb heat off, trickle up the > flaps, > and retrim. If any of these controls are in the centre of the panel > you have > to swap hands during a critical phase of flight. I felt that reaching > across > to hold the stick with my left hand while manipulating switches on > the panel > might not be a good idea. That said, I have a wiring diagram for dual > flap > switches that you could install adjacent the T bar throttles. > - I want to install a single throttle control under the centre of the > panel, > just above the fuel selector. > - I've been doing all my recent hours in a rented Diamond DA-20 and > really > enjoy the control layout. > > On the down side I think that I would appreciate the ability to lay > charts > etc across my knees. I find that a problem in the Katana. > > Hey, if I really don't like the dual sticks, I can always install the > centre > stick. > > ..neil > Do not archive. > > On Tue Mar 23 - 4:48 PM Gary Gower wrote:Dirk, > > I think that the Y stick is a great idea, for most of the pilots > looks > strange, but here, even an owner of a Kitfox 6 liked the idea, less > complexity and easy to get in and out the plane, he wants a flight in > our plane, once is ready, just to give the Y a "flying" try. > > A bet all of us thinked at least once in the dual sticks, but you > should first try the Y... > Just a comment > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > > > --- > Email certified virus free when sent from original author. > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:25 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Dirk, I am also left handed, I think that we have to get used to having all the contols in the "wrong" place in everything we use, that is a fact all our lifes :-). When I fly/rent the Quicksilver MXII ultralight in our club, the arrangment is similar to the one in the 701, Control stick in the middle betwen the seats, and the throttle in outher side of each seat, I had no problem in getting used to flying the plane since the first flight. I am sure that you dont have to change to the right seat, you will get used to the left seat very easy. Is like learning guitar moving the strings order for leftys, they cant play in a normal guitar... Is easyer for us to train for right handed things than to find everywhere things for leftys, from scissors to airplanes :-). If you can find a QS MXII ultralight near your place try to get some time in it with an instructor, you will convince yourself. A question to the experts: Is there a reason (legal or else) to fly from the left seat in airplanes? Just thought about it... Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico. --- Dirk Slabbert wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > > Think I'll do that Gary, hate to change anything on a good design, > those controls are put that way for a reason, I'm sure, just curious. > Like I said, I'm left handed, but flying from the right seat should > be ok, just arange the panel a bit different. > Have you thought about a T throttle arangement? like the one in > Piper? I just dont like the push pull one. > How are you getting along with the building? does the 400 hr build > time hold true? > I am looking into putting the BMW R 1150 in my 701, engine specs look > good. > Dirk in Africa. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Gower > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:47 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > Dirk, > > I think that the Y stick is a great idea, for most of the pilots > looks > strange, but here, even an owner of a Kitfox 6 liked the idea, > less > complexity and easy to get in and out the plane, he wants a flight > in > our plane, once is ready, just to give the Y a "flying" try. > > A bet all of us thinked at least once in the dual sticks, but you > should first try the Y... > Just a comment > > Saludos > Gary Gower. > Do not archive. > > --- Dirk Slabbert wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > > > > > Talking about dual sticks, will it make sense in a 701? did > anyone > > try this before? > > Thanks, > > Dirk. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: nhulin > > To: Zenith-List@matronics.com > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:47 PM > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" > > > > > Mike and Tony, > > > > I've just installed the dual stick option and my sticks clear > the > > bottom of > > the IP by about 15 - 20mm. My aileron torque tube may be a bit > low > > because I > > was working off the 12/01 version of the drawings and I know > that > > there are > > revised numbers on the newer ones. My numbers are 165mm for the > > front of the > > torque tube and not 169 as one of the update indicates. Even > so, > > that only > > accounts for 4mm. If I have time I'll check for sure the > distance > > from the > > floor to the centre of the torque tube > > > > For those of you contemplating the dual stick option and have > not > > installed > > the centre spar section, it is MUCH easier to be able to remove > the > > centre > > spar and work on it outside the plane. Just cleco it in place > and > > don't > > rivet until you absolutely have to. > > > > I'd like to post some photos on the photo share but my 1 y.o > > daughter took a > > liking to my digital camera which is now in the techospital > > recovering from > > the encounter. Actually, the recovery process simply involves > > relocating the > > damage from the camera to my wallet but that can be a story for > > another > > campfire. > > > > ..neil > > Cincinnati > > 601XL/Corvair - Fuselage and stuff > > > > > > --- > > Email certified virus free when sent from original author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:19 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Dirk, Sorry forgot to answer some of your questions. The 400 hrs definitly is not for first timers, but the real building time is more a case of what final quality you want in the building details, for example, rounding the corners of some parts like the landing gear supports, fitting everthing correctly and nice, turning knobs for the throttle, routing all the electrics, etc. We just passed the 1,000 hour line a few weeks ago and we are in the final details, we are not building a "show plane" for sure, now we are finishing the cabin and ready for final assembly inside our shop, before taking it to the airstrip. There is no BMW flying around here, but great comments in Europe, there was some problems with the (gear) reductions, but I think they got solved. Try to get in touch with pilots with experience in the engine. Saludos Gary Gower. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > > > > Think I'll do that Gary, hate to change anything on a good design, > those controls are put that way for a reason, I'm sure, just curious. > > Like I said, I'm left handed, but flying from the right seat should > be ok, just arange the panel a bit different. > > Have you thought about a T throttle arangement? like the one in > Piper? I just dont like the push pull one. > > How are you getting along with the building? does the 400 hr build > time hold true? > > I am looking into putting the BMW R 1150 in my 701, engine specs > look good. > > Dirk in Africa. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gary Gower > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:47 AM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > > > > Dirk, > > > > I think that the Y stick is a great idea, for most of the pilots > looks > > strange, but here, even an owner of a Kitfox 6 liked the idea, > less > > complexity and easy to get in and out the plane, he wants a > flight in > > our plane, once is ready, just to give the Y a "flying" try. > > > > A bet all of us thinked at least once in the dual sticks, but you > > should first try the Y... > > Just a comment > > > > Saludos > > Gary Gower. > > Do not archive. > > > > --- Dirk Slabbert wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > > > > > > > > Talking about dual sticks, will it make sense in a 701? did > anyone > > > try this before? > > > Thanks, > > > Dirk. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: nhulin > > > To: Zenith-List@matronics.com > > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:47 PM > > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" > > > > > > > Mike and Tony, > > > > > > I've just installed the dual stick option and my sticks clear > the > > > bottom of > > > the IP by about 15 - 20mm. My aileron torque tube may be a > bit low > > > because I > > > was working off the 12/01 version of the drawings and I know > that > > > there are > > > revised numbers on the newer ones. My numbers are 165mm for > the > > > front of the > > > torque tube and not 169 as one of the update indicates. Even > so, > > > that only > > > accounts for 4mm. If I have time I'll check for sure the > distance > > > from the > > > floor to the centre of the torque tube > > > > > > For those of you contemplating the dual stick option and have > not > > > installed > > > the centre spar section, it is MUCH easier to be able to > remove the > > > centre > > > spar and work on it outside the plane. Just cleco it in place > and > > > don't > > > rivet until you absolutely have to. > > > > > > I'd like to post some photos on the photo share but my 1 y.o > > > daughter took a > > > liking to my digital camera which is now in the techospital > > > recovering from > > > the encounter. Actually, the recovery process simply involves > > > relocating the > > > damage from the camera to my wallet but that can be a story > for > > > another > > > campfire. > > > > > > ..neil > > > Cincinnati > > > 601XL/Corvair - Fuselage and stuff __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:21 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Dirk, Sorry forgot to answer some of your questions. The 400 hrs definitly is not for first timers, but the real building time is more a case of what final quality you want in the building details, for example, rounding the corners of some parts like the landing gear supports, fitting everthing correctly and nice, turning knobs for the throttle, routing all the electrics, etc. We just passed the 1,000 hour line a few weeks ago and we are in the final details, we are not building a "show plane" for sure, now we are finishing the cabin and ready for final assembly inside our shop, before taking it to the airstrip. There is no BMW flying around here, but great comments in Europe, there was some problems with the (gear) reductions, but I think they got solved. Try to get in touch with pilots with experience in the engine. Saludos Gary Gower. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > > > > Think I'll do that Gary, hate to change anything on a good design, > those controls are put that way for a reason, I'm sure, just curious. > > Like I said, I'm left handed, but flying from the right seat should > be ok, just arange the panel a bit different. > > Have you thought about a T throttle arangement? like the one in > Piper? I just dont like the push pull one. > > How are you getting along with the building? does the 400 hr build > time hold true? > > I am looking into putting the BMW R 1150 in my 701, engine specs > look good. > > Dirk in Africa. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gary Gower > > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:47 AM > > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > > > > > Dirk, > > > > I think that the Y stick is a great idea, for most of the pilots > looks > > strange, but here, even an owner of a Kitfox 6 liked the idea, > less > > complexity and easy to get in and out the plane, he wants a > flight in > > our plane, once is ready, just to give the Y a "flying" try. > > > > A bet all of us thinked at least once in the dual sticks, but you > > should first try the Y... > > Just a comment > > > > Saludos > > Gary Gower. > > Do not archive. > > > > --- Dirk Slabbert wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" > > > > > > > > > Talking about dual sticks, will it make sense in a 701? did > anyone > > > try this before? > > > Thanks, > > > Dirk. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: nhulin > > > To: Zenith-List@matronics.com > > > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:47 PM > > > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ > > > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" > > > > > > > Mike and Tony, > > > > > > I've just installed the dual stick option and my sticks clear > the > > > bottom of > > > the IP by about 15 - 20mm. My aileron torque tube may be a > bit low > > > because I > > > was working off the 12/01 version of the drawings and I know > that > > > there are > > > revised numbers on the newer ones. My numbers are 165mm for > the > > > front of the > > > torque tube and not 169 as one of the update indicates. Even > so, > > > that only > > > accounts for 4mm. If I have time I'll check for sure the > distance > > > from the > > > floor to the centre of the torque tube > > > > > > For those of you contemplating the dual stick option and have > not > > > installed > > > the centre spar section, it is MUCH easier to be able to > remove the > > > centre > > > spar and work on it outside the plane. Just cleco it in place > and > > > don't > > > rivet until you absolutely have to. > > > > > > I'd like to post some photos on the photo share but my 1 y.o > > > daughter took a > > > liking to my digital camera which is now in the techospital > > > recovering from > > > the encounter. Actually, the recovery process simply involves > > > relocating the > > > damage from the camera to my wallet but that can be a story > for > > > another > > > campfire. > > > > > > ..neil > > > Cincinnati > > > 601XL/Corvair - Fuselage and stuff __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:15 AM PST US From: Keith Ashcraft Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed --> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft Hi Gary, >A question to the experts: Is there a reason (legal or else) to fly >from the left seat in airplanes? Just thought about it... > >Saludos >Gary Gower >Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico. > > I asked this question once about helicopters. The home built Scorpion is (was) built for the PIC to be in the left seat (I think the current Rotorways are this way), while normally PIC of rotorwings are in the right seat. The opposite of fixed winged. I never got a straight answer, so this should be interesting to see what other people think. Keith CH701 measily 3% done, but keep getting sparked by all the others that are flying (such as 801BH, good job Ben) N 38.9947 W105.1305 Alt. 9,100' ************************************ This email and any files transmitted with it are proprietary and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT Industries, Inc. The recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. ITT Industries accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ************************************ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:47:49 AM PST US From: "john H" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" I don't know about Mexican laws, but in the US you can legally fly from either side From: Keith Ashcraft keith.ashcraft@itt.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/Left handed -- Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft keith.ashcraft@itt.com Hi Gary, A question to the experts:Is there a reason (legal or else) to fly from the left seat in airplanes?Just thought about it... Saludos Gary Gower Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico. Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:19 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth I believe sitting in the left side is a convention for pilot in command as most airports use left hand circuits and you have a better view of the landing all around from the left seat. FWIW David > A question to the experts:Is there a reason (legal > or else) to fly > from the left seat in airplanes?Just thought about > it... > ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:54 PM PST US From: "Mick Kaye" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mick Kaye" Hi All, I think it's something to with the majority of being right handed and controlled from the left hemisphere of the brain. Or is it that the US drive from the left seat? Mick > I believe sitting in the left side is a convention for > pilot in command as most airports use left hand > circuits and you have a better view of the landing all > around from the left seat. FWIW > David ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:11 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Zenith in the sky N801BH --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com Truly a beutiful creation. Congratulations on you're accomplishment, the result of hard work, dedication, and perseverence. It must feel awesome!!!! do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure From: royt.or@netzero.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com Here is some information Ive recently learned about my Rotax 912ULS which may be of interest to others on this list: My oil pressure indication on my EIS fluctuated from 0 to ~20 psi the last time I planned to fly. So, I did not fly. I could not find a specific failure that caused the low oil pressure. That prompted me to makes some calls. I called Lockwood Aviation and California Power Systems to ask about the low oil pressure. Additionally I inquired about the availability of the new carburetor flange assy (Rotax PN 267788), the new higher pressure (1.2 bar vs 0.9 bar) radiator cap (Rotax PN 922070) and tried to determine if my 912ULS has a sprang clutch. Both suppliers said the carb flange and radiator cap are not available yet. CPS the person who answered the phone seemed to be a basic order taker. He did not know about the sprang clutch, put me on hold and then came back with a pn that was $1K+. He did not sound confident he had the correct part number. He was unable to tell me if my 912ULS had a clutch or not. I did not try to ask technical recommendations for low oil pressure. Disappointing. Lockwood Offered that most 912ULSs that were more than 2 years old did not have the clutch. There is a special program where the customer sends their gearbox to Lockwood, they retrofit the clutch and ship the updated gearbox back for $571. There is also a starter exchange program where the customer ships Lockwood their existing starter and it is exchanged for the new (more powerful ?) starter for $200. The new starter is $499 !!?! outright. They were willing to look up if my engine had the clutch. I found a chart on page 71 of the 2002-2003 Lockwood catalog that identifies if a gearbox shipped with the clutch. There is a 6 digit part number on the front left top of the gear box. From the catalog: 888 560 and 888 565 did not ship with the clutch; 887 707 and 887 702 ship with the clutch. I called the next day and talked to the technicians and make sure I understood how to remove the gearbox. During the discussion I asked about the low oil pressure and was told it was all but certain due to the sender/transducer. I was told Lockwood carries the EXPENSIVE Rotax sender for ~$225.00 and the identical VDO sender for $23.00. Guess what Im getting. And a spare. My gearbox and starter are on the way to Lockwood. Hope this is helpful to someone. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 179hrs ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:44 PM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed required 5, BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_MONKEY_DSBL) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" sorry guys, but I can't resist gotta be a smart a$$ for a moment!! but I fly my single seat max from the middle!!! FWIW " ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Barth" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed > --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth > > I believe sitting in the left side is a convention for > pilot in command as most airports use left hand > circuits and you have a better view of the landing all > around from the left seat. FWIW > David > > > > A question to the experts:Is there a reason (legal > > or else) to fly > > from the left seat in airplanes?Just thought about > > it... > > > > ===== > David Barth > 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? > Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:26 PM PST US From: "mike honer" Subject: Zenith-List: dual stick option --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" Anne and I learned to fly in a stodgy 172, and we have a total of 3100 hours in the air, much of it IFR in ours, N222US. For us, the dual stick option makes sense because the single throttle can be in the middle, and the radio and transponder can also be there, so we can both use them. So, no matter who is in the left or right seat, the dual stick option makes a lot of sense to us. I am building the 601XL as a safety net against the time we both lose our medicals. Mike and Anne Honer do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:48 PM PST US From: "88tierra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" Before you disassemble everything you may want to check the oil pressure with a mechanical gage that you trust to confirm the pressure the engine is producing. Could save some time and confirms the diagnosis. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of royt.or@netzero.com Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com Here is some information Ive recently learned about my Rotax 912ULS which may be of interest to others on this list: My oil pressure indication on my EIS fluctuated from 0 to ~20 psi the last time I planned to fly. So, I did not fly. I could not find a specific failure that caused the low oil pressure. That prompted me to makes some calls. I called Lockwood Aviation and California Power Systems to ask about the low oil pressure. Additionally I inquired about the availability of the new carburetor flange assy (Rotax PN 267788), the new higher pressure (1.2 bar vs 0.9 bar) radiator cap (Rotax PN 922070) and tried to determine if my 912ULS has a sprang clutch. Both suppliers said the carb flange and radiator cap are not available yet. CPS the person who answered the phone seemed to be a basic order taker. He did not know about the sprang clutch, put me on hold and then came back with a pn that was $1K+. He did not sound confident he had the correct part number. He was unable to tell me if my 912ULS had a clutch or not. I did not try to ask technical recommendations for low oil pressure. Disappointing. Lockwood Offered that most 912ULSs that were more than 2 years old did not have the clutch. There is a special program where the customer sends their gearbox to Lockwood, they retrofit the clutch and ship the updated gearbox back for $571. There is also a starter exchange program where the customer ships Lockwood their existing starter and it is exchanged for the new (more powerful ?) starter for $200. The new starter is $499 !!?! outright. They were willing to look up if my engine had the clutch. I found a chart on page 71 of the 2002-2003 Lockwood catalog that identifies if a gearbox shipped with the clutch. There is a 6 digit part number on the front left top of the gear box. From the catalog: 888 560 and 888 565 did not ship with the clutch; 887 707 and 887 702 ship with the clutch. I called the next day and talked to the technicians and make sure I understood how to remove the gearbox. During the discussion I asked about the low oil pressure and was told it was all but certain due to the sender/transducer. I was told Lockwood carries the EXPENSIVE Rotax sender for ~$225.00 and the identical VDO sender for $23.00. Guess what Im getting. And a spare. My gearbox and starter are on the way to Lockwood. Hope this is helpful to someone. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 179hrs ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:04 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Zenith in the sky --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves At 05:28 AM 3/24/04 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com > >Another Zenith 801 has cleared the grips of gravity........ N801BH with a V-8 >NASCAR Ford in it has flown the coop. Pics of it are at CH701.com. Look for >Ben Haas and click on them. What a feeling !!!!!!!!! and yes, that is >airforce two in the background...... > >Ben Haas N801BH Jackson Hole Wy. > HEY way to go Ben Can you give us some specifics on the engine? Why you chose this power plant? Also Tell us about the reduction unit..on that Nascar Ford. Is that the radiator under the belly? Monty ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:33 PM PST US From: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com In the case of a 912 engine, the "normal" position of the throttle is wide open, the carburetor springs perform this task. The T-handle and associated linkage is used to close the trottle. A friction block on the engine side of the firewall makes the linkage remain at whatever position you set. Be careful not to change the springs, they are factory-set for several valid reasons. Zed Smith 701/R912/90% do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:39 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: T throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Johann, I found that I prefer having a friction lock throttle on the pilot side and a regular T throttle on the passenger side. This way I can adjust the friction in flight to stop the creep of the throttle to full. The designed friction lock is inside the firewall and I found it difficult to set properly so that there is enough friction to prevent creep, but not too much to make throttle adjustments too hard. Frank in Ottawa C-GYXQ > Is a friction control throttle nessesary? Thanks in advance. Johann G. Iceland. Zenith 701 www.fisflug.tk ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:54 PM PST US From: WAYNE BEATTIE Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: WAYNE BEATTIE Thanks Roy! I was going to have the flanges and radiator cap sent back when Lockwood returned my ignition housing after repairing the water pump. Now I'll save the money for those and replace the starter instead since I have it apart already. Probably even money! Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "88tierra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" > > Before you disassemble everything you may want to check the oil pressure > with a mechanical gage that you trust to confirm the pressure the engine is > producing. Could save some time and confirms the diagnosis. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > royt.or@netzero.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com > > > Here is some information Ive recently learned about my Rotax 912ULS which > may be of interest to others on this list: > > My oil pressure indication on my EIS fluctuated from 0 to ~20 psi the last > time I planned to fly. So, I did not fly. I could not find a specific > failure that caused the low oil pressure. That prompted me to makes some > calls. I called Lockwood Aviation and California Power Systems to ask about > the low oil pressure. Additionally I inquired about the availability of the > new carburetor flange assy (Rotax PN 267788), the new higher pressure (1.2 > bar vs 0.9 bar) radiator cap (Rotax PN 922070) and tried to determine if my > 912ULS has a sprang clutch. Both suppliers said the carb flange and radiator > cap are not available yet. > > CPS the person who answered the phone seemed to be a basic order taker. He > did not know about the sprang clutch, put me on hold and then came back with > a pn that was $1K+. He did not sound confident he had the correct part > number. He was unable to tell me if my 912ULS had a clutch or not. I did not > try to ask technical recommendations for low oil pressure. Disappointing. > > Lockwood Offered that most 912ULSs that were more than 2 years old did not > have the clutch. There is a special program where the customer sends their > gearbox to Lockwood, they retrofit the clutch and ship the updated gearbox > back for $571. There is also a starter exchange program where the customer > ships Lockwood their existing starter and it is exchanged for the new (more > powerful ?) starter for $200. The new starter is $499 !!?! outright. They > were willing to look up if my engine had the clutch. > > I found a chart on page 71 of the 2002-2003 Lockwood catalog that identifies > if a gearbox shipped with the clutch. There is a 6 digit part number on the > front left top of the gear box. From the catalog: 888 560 and 888 565 did > not ship with the clutch; 887 707 and 887 702 ship with the clutch. > > I called the next day and talked to the technicians and make sure I > understood how to remove the gearbox. During the discussion I asked about > the low oil pressure and was told it was all but certain due to the > sender/transducer. I was told Lockwood carries the EXPENSIVE Rotax sender > for ~$225.00 and the identical VDO sender for $23.00. Guess what Im getting. > And a spare. > > My gearbox and starter are on the way to Lockwood. > > Hope this is helpful to someone. > > Regards, > > Roy > > N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, > 179hrs > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:40 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Johann, I have to agree 100% with Frank in Ottawa. This was the whole basis of the downing of N701US into scrap aluminum just 5 months ago. (All in archives) I WILL be using a friction lock next time around and will be donating my T handles to the cabin heat control mechanism.. maybe. "Be careful not to change the springs, they are factory-set for several valid reasons. Zed Smith 701/R912/90% " Now where was Zed with his advice when I needed it ????????????? !!! Jon near Green Bay N701US Fuse done working on wings. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > Johann, > > I found that I prefer having a friction lock throttle on the pilot side > and a regular T throttle on the passenger side. This way I can adjust > the friction in flight to stop the creep of the throttle to full. The > designed friction lock is inside the firewall and I found it difficult > to set properly so that there is enough friction to prevent creep, but > not too much to make throttle adjustments too hard. > > Frank in Ottawa > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:12 PM PST US From: "ronnie wehba" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle required 5, BAYES_00, RCVD_IN_MONKEY_DSBL) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" Huh did i miss something? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > > Johann, > > I have to agree 100% with Frank in Ottawa. This was the whole basis of the > downing of N701US into scrap aluminum just 5 months ago. (All in archives) > I WILL be using a friction lock next time around and will be donating my T > handles to the cabin heat control mechanism.. maybe. > > "Be careful > not to change the springs, they are factory-set for several valid reasons. > Zed Smith 701/R912/90% " > > Now where was Zed with his advice when I needed it ????????????? !!! > > Jon near Green Bay > N701US Fuse done working on wings. > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" > > > > Johann, > > > > I found that I prefer having a friction lock throttle on the pilot side > > and a regular T throttle on the passenger side. This way I can adjust > > the friction in flight to stop the creep of the throttle to full. The > > designed friction lock is inside the firewall and I found it difficult > > to set properly so that there is enough friction to prevent creep, but > > not too much to make throttle adjustments too hard. > > > > Frank in Ottawa > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:14 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual stick option --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" I can very little logic for having a single stick in the middle. Perhaps a little less complex and weighs a little less, but that's it, no handling or flight reasons. The vast majority of two place aircraft which use a cyclic or control stick such as helicopters, gyroplanes, use dual sticks. Just because some designs are that way, doesn't make it the best. I think single designs are done that way simply because it was easy. Putting the stick in the middle waste valuable space that could be used for other things, e.g., console, radio, switches, etc. With the stick in the middle you have no options. Insofar as the argument about hard to get in and out of the aircraft, that's easily overcome by using a stick which is bent where it goes away at the feet toward the firewall then bent back in a slow turn toward the seat and up to the hand. That allows your inner foot to easily pass the stick when you are getting in or out of the aircraft. Anyway, having the stick between our legs comes natural. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike honer" Subject: Zenith-List: dual stick option > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" > > Anne and I learned to fly in a stodgy 172, and we have a total of 3100 hours in the air, much of it IFR in ours, N222US. > > For us, the dual stick option makes sense because the single throttle can be in the middle, and the radio and transponder can also be there, so we can both use them. > > So, no matter who is in the left or right seat, the dual stick option makes a lot of sense to us. > > I am building the 601XL as a safety net against the time we both lose our medicals. > > Mike and Anne Honer > > do not archive > > --- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual stick option From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 3/24/04 7:06 PM, "Larry Martin" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > > Anyway, having the stick between our legs comes natural. > I'm with you. I chose the dual stick options for the following reasons: Not to mention the ergonomic economy of not having to reach cross hand to hold the stick while writing a clearance or change a radio frequency. True that this may be very manageable under normal circumstances. Under abnormal circumstances there is no additional cockpit work load for a standard (between the legs) stick but a center mount stick most certain presents an increase in cockpit work load. Here's some examples of why I decided to go with the center stick option: For a right handed pilot in left seat with conventional 6 instrument cluster (AS, AI, ALT, VS, DG, TB) with the center cockpit stick will require mounting the radio to the right of the center line. If you've got a VOR indicator to the right of the radio cluster (or a GPS Indicator) then the radio stack is substantially to the right of the center line. Switch frequencies would require either (1) flying with the left hand across the body while changing frequencies or (2) leaning significantly to reach the radio with the left hand. The former may present control difficulties in anything but straight and level flight in smooth air. The latter may induce vertigo (especially during night flight or IFR). The right handed pilot is left only option 1 when writing a clearance - which almost always seems to occur at the most inopportune times. For a right handed pilot in the right seat with a conventional 6 instrument cluster to the right of the centerline, the inconveniences include hand swapping. Clearances can be copied while flying left handed. Changing radio or transponder settings will require either cross arm flying or leaning across the center line to reach the radio stack with the right hand (again, a risk of vertigo). For a left handed pilot in the left seat with a conventional 6 instrument cluster to the left of the center line, the situation is the same as the right handed pilot in the right seat. For a left handed pilot in the right seat with conventional 6 instrument cluster to the right of the centerline, the issues are the same as the right handed pilot in the left seat. These issues are either diminished to insignificance or eliminated by a stick mounted between the legs. Having the stick between the legs is not just natural, it affords an economy of movements that provide more comfort, may be safer (eliminates head movements that might induce vertigo are create situations where it is more difficult to maintain a highly accurate level of control). Yes, I've flown from the opposite seat (or the rear seat) and do not feel any ability to control the aircraft has been sacrificed based solely on the position of the pilot in the aircraft - given a control system that is symmetrical in presenting a level playing field for the pilot position. A local TA chastised me for my position based on his assertion that a pilot should be able to fly from either seat but his arguments did not consider the asymmetry presented here and I believe was quite short sided. Justification of his position rested more on hangar debate which seemed to have more goal in elevating his posting of his own skill rather than seeking the goal of having the best possible solution from an ergonomic and safety perspective. None of these arguments, in my mind outweigh the advantages I've outlined above. I'm certain some disagree (and that is fine) but I am in agreement with you on this one... DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:02 PM PST US From: "Dale Carlson" Subject: Zenith-List: Dual Sticks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dale Carlson" The discussion about the dual sticks is interesting and it's about time to see dual sticks in these aircraft... in my opinion. I am like many in that I wanted two sticks for my airplane. I flew a couple of times with the center stick and it was OK, but the problems already identified with a go-arounds, grabing throttle, flaps trim, writing clearances or simply changing a radio freq makes the center stick ackward, at best. I built a dual stick set-up from drawings sent to me from an 801 builder in Australia. He has been flying his 801 for a couple of years and would not return to the center stick. I have not flown 128DC yet but am getting closer. I am using two Infinity stick grips and have placed the flap switch (upper thumb switch) and elevator trim (Chinese Hat) on both stick grips. With dual throttles, flight from either seat provides all the controls necessary. I ran the tiny stick grip switches supplied by infinity through their flap buffer board and seems to work like a champ. Eliminating the flap switch on the panal seems like a natural choice to me. Placing the flap and trim position indicator high on the instrumrnt panel allows flap/trim changes while looking straight ahead..no head down in the cockpit to first find the switch than then find the position indicator. I'll have to wait a little longer to see if it all works in flight. Dale Carlson CH-801 N128DC ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:36 PM PST US From: "Peter Dunning" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rotax 912ULS info; clutch, starter, low oil pressure --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" Hi Roy Thanks for taking the time to post that info on the list ! I did a quick check of my 912ULS to make sure I had a clutch in the gearbox ! :-) I suggest you consult the ROTAX hand book and measure the static resistance (with an ohm meter) of the oil pressure sender as a first step. If you could get a controllable pressure source it would better to measure for other pressures as well. Alternatively you could present the EIS with fixed specific resistances after disconnecting the sender, to see what was indicated. I have not heard of an oil pressure sender failing (yet). Soft landings Peter Dunning CH601HD/912ULS /working on the cowling. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:26 PM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield Hi list i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair power. I have been watching this list and wonder why people are going for the duel stick option. I believe the center stick would be ideal for the left hand occupant. I can also see that the right seater would have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem? I my past, usually the right seater is basically a passenger and would not be flying that much. I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the center position of the stick. seems like it would be a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance or exit. What are your thoughts. john butterfield ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:13 PM PST US From: Richard Vetterli Subject: Zenith-List: zenith-list: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli In reply to John Butterfield. All of my flying experience has been with my left hand on the yoke and my right covering just about everything else. I'm building a 601XL and haven't decided yet which configuation to use, but I'm leaning towards the dual sticks so I don't have to re-learn to fly. Rich Vetterli __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:41 PM PST US From: "Dr. Perry Morrison" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dr. Perry Morrison" This thread has been covered mutliple times I think. Many people don't like the Y and replace it with a single grip centre stick. Others want dual sticks like "real" planes. For me the Y is very comfortable. I'm very right hand dominant and the Y stick and left throttle are perfect, fall to hand easily and the elbow rest is nice plus the stick is not an obstacle to cockpit entry. There's a lot of functionality in this choice. I think some of the objections are a little bigoted. But since most people will only build one plane in their life, I guess they're entitled to indulge it! --- john butterfield wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield > > > Hi list > i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair > power. I have been watching this list and wonder why > people are going for the duel stick option. I believe > the center stick would be ideal for the left hand > occupant. I can also see that the right seater would > have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem? > I my past, usually the right seater is basically a > passenger and would not be flying that much. > > I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the > center position of the stick. seems like it would be > a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance > or exit. What are your thoughts. > > john butterfield > > > > > > > >