Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:19 AM - Re: T throttle (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com)
2. 04:37 AM - Re: center stick (caspainhower@aep.com)
3. 05:27 AM - Re: center stick (Frank Jones)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: center stick (Larry Martin)
5. 06:19 AM - Re: center stick (Roger Roy)
6. 06:34 AM - Re: dual stick option (Dan knezacek)
7. 06:37 AM - Re: center stick (Dirk Slabbert)
8. 06:42 AM - Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition (Andrew SanClemente)
9. 07:14 AM - Re: New Zenith in the sky.. Big Thanks (Benford2@aol.com)
10. 07:57 AM - Re: Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
11. 08:03 AM - Re: Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition (Larry McFarland)
12. 08:03 AM - Re: Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition (Benford2@aol.com)
13. 08:19 AM - Re: Dual Stick option (Kevin W Bonds)
14. 08:26 AM - 801 crash? (Kevin W Bonds)
15. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: Dual Stick option (Leo J. Corbalis)
16. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Re: Dual Stick option ()
17. 09:23 AM - Re: Re: Dual Stick option (Dave Kubassek)
18. 09:54 AM - Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition (Andrew SanClemente)
19. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Dual Stick option ()
20. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Dual Stick option (caspainhower@aep.com)
21. 10:39 AM - Re: New Zenith in the sky.. Big Thanks (ronnie wehba)
22. 11:44 AM - Left seat Right seat Center seat... (Bima, Martin)
23. 11:55 AM - clecos (Dave & Darlene)
24. 12:15 PM - bending brake (Dave & Darlene)
25. 12:17 PM - sheet list (Dave & Darlene)
26. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (Gary Gower)
27. 03:05 PM - Corvair (Dave (theCoverts))
28. 04:15 PM - Re: Left seat Right seat Center seat... (Gary Gower)
29. 04:16 PM - Re: Dual Stick option (Bob Miller)
30. 04:23 PM - Re: Corvair (Gary Gower)
31. 04:38 PM - Sport Pilot Update (Jon Croke)
32. 05:26 PM - Re: Re: Dual Stick option (Ray Montagne)
33. 05:32 PM - Re: Sport Pilot Update (Dave Alberti)
34. 06:21 PM - Re: center stick (Fred or Sandy Hulen)
35. 06:41 PM - Re: Corvair (Steve Dixon)
36. 06:57 PM - Re: Corvair (Larry Martin)
37. 06:57 PM - Re: center stick (Larry Martin)
38. 07:03 PM - Re: Re: center stick (Larry Martin)
39. 07:13 PM - OAT Sensor location (Larry Martin)
40. 07:45 PM - The MYTH of dual sticks (Jeff Small)
41. 08:28 PM - Re: Corvair (jnbolding1)
42. 08:35 PM - Re: Re: Re: Dual Stick option ()
43. 09:08 PM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (john H)
44. 10:09 PM - Zenith: off list (Kevin W Bonds)
45. 10:14 PM - Re: Zenith: off list (Ray Montagne)
46. 10:46 PM - Re: Corvair (Gary Gower)
47. 10:56 PM - Re: Re: Re: Dual Stick option (Gary Gower)
48. 10:59 PM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (Gary Gower)
49. 10:59 PM - Re: center stick (Tebenkof@aol.com)
50. 11:05 PM - Re: Zenith: off list (Gary Gower)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by:
John, Zed and Frank.
Thank you all for your great advice. This is just what I needed to make my
decision on the throttle setup. I am so sorry that you (John) had to
experiance the spring trouble. Hope your wings building will go smooth.
Looking forward to Sun and Fun.
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Do not archive.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Johann,
>
> I have to agree 100% with Frank in Ottawa. This was the whole basis of the
> downing of N701US into scrap aluminum just 5 months ago. (All in archives)
> I WILL be using a friction lock next time around and will be donating my T
> handles to the cabin heat control mechanism.. maybe.
>
> "Be careful
> not to change the springs, they are factory-set for several valid reasons.
> Zed Smith 701/R912/90% "
>
> Now where was Zed with his advice when I needed it ????????????? !!!
>
> Jon near Green Bay
> N701US Fuse done working on wings.
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
> >
> > Johann,
> >
> > I found that I prefer having a friction lock throttle on the pilot side
> > and a regular T throttle on the passenger side. This way I can adjust
> > the friction in flight to stop the creep of the throttle to full. The
> > designed friction lock is inside the firewall and I found it difficult
> > to set properly so that there is enough friction to prevent creep, but
> > not too much to make throttle adjustments too hard.
> >
> > Frank in Ottawa
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
03/25/2004 07:37:06 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the
>center position of the stick. seems like it would be
>a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance
>or exit. What are your thoughts.
>john butterfield
OK, this is my two cents worth and purely my opinion. I thought I would
like the center stick, but have been checking out in a Diamond Katana which
has the duel sticks. It is very comfortable to fly with duel sticks but
more importantly it frees up a lot of space on the center console. I
really like the throttle quadrant in the middle and having no obstructions
in front of the panel. I had a concern about passenger comfort with the
stick on that side, but I may just make that stick removable. I am too
cheap to pay what they want for the conversion so I bought the plans and
will install the duel sticks if I get the parts fabricated in time. As far
as getting in and out, I spend a lot more time flying than getting in and
out of the plane, I'll get used to it.
Craig S.
N601XS, 601XL lyc. 0-235
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the
>center position of the stick. seems like it would be
>a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance
>or exit. What are your thoughts.
>john butterfield
I've got the center Y-stick and if I had to do it all over again I'd go
with the dual sticks. Main reason - it's a pain to control radios,
write, tap on my iPaq moving map display etc. with my left hand. If I
were left handed it might work out better, however I still think the
dual stick is the way to go for either hand-dominance for ergonomic
reasons mentioned by others in this thread.
Frank in Ottawa
C-GYXQ 601XL 912ULS 33 hours
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I can fly it either way. But to me the question is "Which is the most
logical and practical?". The center stick is a departure from the norm. As
I said before the vast majority of aircraft that use a stick configuration,
go with dual sticks. The 701 cabin is pretty small as it is. So, why would
one want to waste usable space by putting a stick in the middle of it, when
the space between you legs is not used anyway? The passenger/co-pilot stick
can easily be made removable by pinning or bolting it. As it is now and I
have experience it, the center stick causes the passenger some discomfort
because the stick can and often hits his/her left leg when the pilot is
taking a right turn. The dual stick is easily usable with either hand while
the center stick dictates which hand you must use. To me the dual stick
option is a "no-brainer".
----- Original Message -----
From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: center stick
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
<jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi list
> i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair
> power. I have been watching this list and wonder why
> people are going for the duel stick option. I believe
> the center stick would be ideal for the left hand
> occupant. I can also see that the right seater would
> have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem?
> I my past, usually the right seater is basically a
> passenger and would not be flying that much.
>
> I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the
> center position of the stick. seems like it would be
> a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance
> or exit. What are your thoughts.
>
> john butterfield
>
>
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:18:54 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Larry, evidently the folks at Zenair have heard yours and others plight on this
subject and a dual stick retrofit I believe is available. Call the factory I'm
sure they can help all of you that are thinking of making the comversion.
RJ
CH-701/912ULS
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I can fly it either way. But to me the question is "Which is the most
logical and practical?". The center stick is a departure from the norm. As
I said before the vast majority of aircraft that use a stick configuration,
go with dual sticks. The 701 cabin is pretty small as it is. So, why would
one want to waste usable space by putting a stick in the middle of it, when
the space between you legs is not used anyway? The passenger/co-pilot stick
can easily be made removable by pinning or bolting it. As it is now and I
have experience it, the center stick causes the passenger some discomfort
because the stick can and often hits his/her left leg when the pilot is
taking a right turn. The dual stick is easily usable with either hand while
the center stick dictates which hand you must use. To me the dual stick
option is a "no-brainer".
----- Original Message -----
From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
To: <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: center stick
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
<jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi list
> i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair
> power. I have been watching this list and wonder why
> people are going for the duel stick option. I believe
> the center stick would be ideal for the left hand
> occupant. I can also see that the right seater would
> have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem?
> I my past, usually the right seater is basically a
> passenger and would not be flying that much.
>
> I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the
> center position of the stick. seems like it would be
> a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance
> or exit. What are your thoughts.
>
> john butterfield
>
>
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: dual stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" <dknezace@bconnex.net>
I know that none of us ever plans to have a collision with some immovable
object. In the unlikely event that such a thing should occur, however, the
stick between the knees is in a place where it could do much damage to a
sensitive part of the anatomy.
I know a man who had a crash with a dual control wheel airplane. The shaft
punctured his rib cage in several places, and he spent a long time
recuperating. He wouldn't have had as many problems if that plane had side
sticks.
Could the dual sticks do the same thing if one's shoulder belt wasn't on or
failed? It seems likely to me.
Some things to think about.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: dual stick option
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
> I can very little logic for having a single stick in the middle. Perhaps
a
> little less complex and weighs a little less, but that's it, no handling
or
> flight reasons. The vast majority of two place aircraft which use a
cyclic
> or control stick such as helicopters, gyroplanes, use dual sticks. Just
> because some designs are that way, doesn't make it the best. I think
single
> designs are done that way simply because it was easy. Putting the stick
in
> the middle waste valuable space that could be used for other things, e.g.,
> console, radio, switches, etc. With the stick in the middle you have no
> options. Insofar as the argument about hard to get in and out of the
> aircraft, that's easily overcome by using a stick which is bent where it
> goes away at the feet toward the firewall then bent back in a slow turn
> toward the seat and up to the hand. That allows your inner foot to easily
> pass the stick when you are getting in or out of the aircraft. Anyway,
> having the stick between our legs comes natural.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mike honer" <amhoner@rtmc.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: dual stick option
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" <amhoner@rtmc.net>
> >
> > Anne and I learned to fly in a stodgy 172, and we have a total of 3100
> hours in the air, much of it IFR in ours, N222US.
> >
> > For us, the dual stick option makes sense because the single throttle
can
> be in the middle, and the radio and transponder can also be there, so we
can
> both use them.
> >
> > So, no matter who is in the left or right seat, the dual stick option
> makes a lot of sense to us.
> >
> > I am building the 601XL as a safety net against the time we both lose
our
> medicals.
> >
> > Mike and Anne Honer
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
Did not know there is a dual stick option available for the 701 ? from ZAC?
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I can fly it either way. But to me the question is "Which is the most
logical and practical?". The center stick is a departure from the norm. As
I said before the vast majority of aircraft that use a stick configuration,
go with dual sticks. The 701 cabin is pretty small as it is. So, why would
one want to waste usable space by putting a stick in the middle of it, when
the space between you legs is not used anyway? The passenger/co-pilot stick
can easily be made removable by pinning or bolting it. As it is now and I
have experience it, the center stick causes the passenger some discomfort
because the stick can and often hits his/her left leg when the pilot is
taking a right turn. The dual stick is easily usable with either hand while
the center stick dictates which hand you must use. To me the dual stick
option is a "no-brainer".
----- Original Message -----
From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
To: <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: center stick
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
<jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> Hi list
> i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair
> power. I have been watching this list and wonder why
> people are going for the duel stick option. I believe
> the center stick would be ideal for the left hand
> occupant. I can also see that the right seater would
> have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem?
> I my past, usually the right seater is basically a
> passenger and would not be flying that much.
>
> I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the
> center position of the stick. seems like it would be
> a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance
> or exit. What are your thoughts.
>
> john butterfield
>
>
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
Question on Stratus Dual Ignition.
I am currently wiring the toggle switch that will control which
ignition is active, primary or backup. The question I have is what
gauge wire (I'm thinking 12 based on what I have read to date) and
what size fuse (30 amp - based on what was in firewall forward
stuff).
There is a remarkable lack of information from Zenith or Stratus on
this sort of thing and I have searched the archives so sorry if I
missed it. The one diagram I found has 12 Gauge wire with a 12 amp
fuse.
Thanks
Andrew
601 HDS Stratus EA-81
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: New Zenith in the sky.. Big Thanks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 3/25/2004 8:11:46 AM Mountain Standard Time, Benford2
writes:
>
> >>
>>
>> Ben,
>> Beautiful plane, beautiful photos! I'm intrigued by the engine
>> -- I've been looking for a plane/engine combination to build (and
>> friends to help) for two years. Knowing that for job reasons I can't
>> actually start until this winter I've been throrough and patient. We
>> now have a club of five ready to start, and we have it narrowed down to
>> a Zenith or a Sonex. Until now, I've assumed aircooled, either VW
>> (AeroVee or Great Plains) or Jabiru (2.2 or 3.3). I've looked a bit at
>> the Raven Redrive Geo conversions, but I haven't considered the
>> small-block V-8.
>>
>> I'd like a little more info on your engine. Which engine? How many
>> cubic inches? How many horsepower? What weight with coolant?
>>
>> And then, what pros and cons do you think of for an engine like this
>> (water-cooled auto V-8, reduction drive)? What went into your decision
>> to choose this?
>>
>> And now, sounds like you are happy with your results?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Rich Meyer
>> 13416 CR 44
>>
>
> This is a good response to use to answer all the nice compliments and
> private emails I have received. First, thanks to all of you for the nice words,
ya
> have to admit this Maronics list is a great thing for Experimental builders.
> This internet thing might catch on.... Ha. Second, I picked the 801 over
> all the other kits because my private airport , 2WY3, is located at 8000 MSL
> and other kits wouldn't perform well in this thin air . The reason for me
> picking the Ford is two fold, one is I love to be different, second is I used
to
> race professionally so it is in my blood. The Ford block is not as tall as a
> Chevy so thats why I picked it. It is proven and has billions miles on the
> design. The motor is a 700 HP set up detuned to about 335HP at sea level, Here
> is Jackson Hole Wy where it sits now that makes it 270 hp or so and at my own
> strip it will be about 255hp. I will have to behave my self at sea level so
> I don't break the plane in half. The weight of the whole assembly firewall
> forward is right at 440 lbs. That was the design weight Chris Heinz stated
> when I bought the kit in 2001. Now that an 801 disintergrated in Califonia last
> spring and spread itself over 2 miles they have removed all other engine
> choices except Lycomings 0-360 from the 801 site and downrated the firewall
> forward weight to 400 lbs. I built mine incorporating several added structural
> beef ups since I knew it would need it. 801BH shows no sign of deforming
> anywhere and other then the hokey nose gear bushings and a undersized
> horizontal/elevator design for this size plane I am VERY happy with its performance.
> Keep building guys cause the feeling one gets on the first flight is
> PRICELESS.. .
>
> Ben Haas N801BH. Jackson Hole Wy.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
I asked the same question several months ago when I was preparing to wire my ignition.
The answer I got was 5 Amps will run the ignition circuit just fine. That
means 16 to 18 guage wire. This was about what I figured it should be. There's
no way will you need 30 Amps to run just the ignition modules. Check the
ignition circuit in a typical auto, I think you'll find it's fused at 5A or less.
Remember, the fuse is there to protect the wire feeding the circuit, not the devices
on the circuit. In all cases the wire needs to be large enough to handle
the maximum current the fuse can provide. For short wire runs, that is the determining
factor. For long wire runs, a larger wire may be required to keep the
voltage drop across the wire acceptable.
Bryan Martin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
>
> Question on Stratus Dual Ignition.
> I am currently wiring the toggle switch that will control which
> ignition is active, primary or backup. The question I have is what
> gauge wire (I'm thinking 12 based on what I have read to date) and
> what size fuse (30 amp - based on what was in firewall forward
> stuff).
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Andrew,
I wired the ignition switch to the selective a-b toggle switch using 16 Ga
and all else
pretty much throughout. The Hot bus to the ignition switch is 16 Ga
and the fuse is a 7 amp. These components are separated from heavy
voltage etc because of contactors. You need the handbook "The AeroElectric
Connection" for aircraft electrical systems published by Bob Nuckolls. For
$35
it's a real bargan. See aeroelectric.com and the related Matronics list to
get
information that is probably more comprehensive.
Larry McFarland
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
<ansancle@townisp.com>
>
> Question on Stratus Dual Ignition.
> I am currently wiring the toggle switch that will control which
> ignition is active, primary or backup. The question I have is what
> gauge wire (I'm thinking 12 based on what I have read to date) and
> what size fuse (30 amp - based on what was in firewall forward
> stuff).
> Thanks
> Andrew
>
> 601 HDS Stratus EA-81
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 3/25/2004 8:57:42 AM Mountain Standard Time,
bryanmmartin@comcast.net writes:
>
> I asked the same question several months ago when I was preparing to wire my
> ignition. The answer I got was 5 Amps will run the ignition circuit just
> fine. That means 16 to 18 guage wire. This was about what I figured it should
> be. There's no way will you need 30 Amps to run just the ignition modules.
> Check the ignition circuit in a typical auto, I think you'll find it's fused
at
> 5A or less.
>
> Remember, the fuse is there to protect the wire feeding the circuit, not the
> devices on the circuit. In all cases the wire needs to be large enough to
> handle the maximum current the fuse can provide. For short wire runs, that is
> the determining factor. For long wire runs, a larger wire may be required to
> keep the voltage drop across the wire acceptable.
>
>
He is correct. Most electronic systems need 1 amp for every thousand rpm.
Message 13
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| Subject: | RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
I have not maid up my mind about what config to use. Thought I was sold on th Y
stick until you guys chimmed in with so many valid points. So my question is.
How soon do I need to make up my mind? What is different about the Dual stick
option that I have to plan for while building the other components? Are there
any changes to Control horns on the rudder, elevator, etc. . . or do the changes
pertain only to the fuselage?
Thanks
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! Working on Rib Templates. Aluminum
should be here tomorrow!
Side not: Clyde Barcus are you on the list yet? You can probably help with this.
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
Ben Haas wrote:
>Now that an 801 disintergrated in Califonia last
> spring and spread itself over 2 miles they have removed all other. . .
I missed this story. What happened? NTSB link?
Kevin
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I have about 4000 hrs, mostly as a USAF pilot. They had the gas and the
airplanes and they'd give me money too! The center Y stick adds a lot of
simplicity and lightness. I've never had a chance to fly Rutan's side stick
which seems closest to the best of all worlds. Stick, wheel, Y stick, and
I'm sure side stick will take only a few minutes to get used to and you'll
go back to thinking I want to turn and it will happen without any conscious
input to either hand.
An airplane is a cloud of comprimises riveted together. Just do it
Leo Corbalis
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
I agree with Leo. I fly Super Cubs and Piper Warriors. The CUB has the stick
between the legs which you fly with the right hand with the left hand on the throttle.
In the Warrior you fly the yoke with the left with the right hand doing
everything else. Like Leo says you think about turning right and the plane
turns right without any councious input from either hand.
Jerry
CH601 HDS
Just purchased the 912S
Stick option
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
>
> > I'm sure side stick will take only a few minutes to get used to and you'll
> go back to thinking I want to turn and it will happen without any conscious
> input to either hand.
> An airplane is a cloud of comprimises riveted together. Just do it
>
> Leo Corbalis
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
I was sceptical at first coming from 30 years of flying champs and cubs etc.
But personally, for the little input required on the 601 XL regardless of
the manouver,
It's actually kinda nice to rest your arm on the centre console and relax.
Mind you ,you couldnt fly a champ that way
as Leo put it, it only takes a matter of minutes to get used to it and then
it becomes old hat.
dave ....
C-FDSF 601 XL. 0235 Lyc.
25 hrs and waiting for strip to dry up
----- Original Message ----- > I'm sure side stick will take only a few
minutes to get used to and you'll
> go back to thinking I want to turn and it will happen without any
conscious
> input to either hand.
> An airplane is a cloud of comprimises riveted together. Just do it
>
> Leo Corbalis
> do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Stratus EA-81 Dual Ignition |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
Great,
thanks guys, I appreciate the info!
Andrew
Message 19
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| Subject: | RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
I agree w/ Leo: the Y-stick is smaller, lighter, simpler and transparent to use
from either seat. It's well thought out. Sticks are intuitively easier to use
than yokes. The Y-stick is safer w/ your arm supported on a raised central armrest,
which, in my plane is a small toolbox w/ a foam pad on top. My 10-year
old daughter could make perfect circles some years ago in my plane.
If you gotta have dual sticks, OK, but don't tell me they're: needed, safer, better!
GGP
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dual Stick option |
03/25/2004 01:33:33 PM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>How soon do I need to make up my mind? What is different about the Dual
stick option that I have to plan for while >building the other components?
Are there any changes to Control horns on the rudder, elevator, etc. . . or
do the >changes pertain only to the fuselage?
I have the plans and downloaded the photo assembly guide for the dual
sticks. There are a few fusilage components (mostly center console) and
the control torque tube is different. No other components; rudder,
elevator, etc. are affected. The assembly guide can be downloaded from the
builders resources area on ZAC's site for reference. That and the prints
should make it very easy to fabricate and install the dual sticks.
Craig S.
N601XS
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: New Zenith in the sky.. Big Thanks |
required 5, BAYES_01, RCVD_IN_MONKEY_DSBL)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ronnie wehba" <rwehba@wtxs.net>
what happened to the one in california?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Benford2@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Zenith in the sky.. Big Thanks
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 3/25/2004 8:11:46 AM Mountain Standard Time, Benford2
> writes:
>
>
> >
> > >>
> >>
> >> Ben,
> >> Beautiful plane, beautiful photos! I'm intrigued by the engine
> >> -- I've been looking for a plane/engine combination to build (and
> >> friends to help) for two years. Knowing that for job reasons I can't
> >> actually start until this winter I've been throrough and patient. We
> >> now have a club of five ready to start, and we have it narrowed down to
> >> a Zenith or a Sonex. Until now, I've assumed aircooled, either VW
> >> (AeroVee or Great Plains) or Jabiru (2.2 or 3.3). I've looked a bit at
> >> the Raven Redrive Geo conversions, but I haven't considered the
> >> small-block V-8.
> >>
> >> I'd like a little more info on your engine. Which engine? How many
> >> cubic inches? How many horsepower? What weight with coolant?
> >>
> >> And then, what pros and cons do you think of for an engine like this
> >> (water-cooled auto V-8, reduction drive)? What went into your decision
> >> to choose this?
> >>
> >> And now, sounds like you are happy with your results?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Rich Meyer
> >> 13416 CR 44
> >>
> >
> > This is a good response to use to answer all the nice compliments and
> > private emails I have received. First, thanks to all of you for the
nice words, ya
> > have to admit this Maronics list is a great thing for Experimental
builders.
> > This internet thing might catch on.... Ha. Second, I picked the 801
over
> > all the other kits because my private airport , 2WY3, is located at 8000
MSL
> > and other kits wouldn't perform well in this thin air . The reason for
me
> > picking the Ford is two fold, one is I love to be different, second is I
used to
> > race professionally so it is in my blood. The Ford block is not as tall
as a
> > Chevy so thats why I picked it. It is proven and has billions miles on
the
> > design. The motor is a 700 HP set up detuned to about 335HP at sea
level, Here
> > is Jackson Hole Wy where it sits now that makes it 270 hp or so and at
my own
> > strip it will be about 255hp. I will have to behave my self at sea level
so
> > I don't break the plane in half. The weight of the whole assembly
firewall
> > forward is right at 440 lbs. That was the design weight Chris Heinz
stated
> > when I bought the kit in 2001. Now that an 801 disintergrated in
Califonia last
> > spring and spread itself over 2 miles they have removed all other engine
> > choices except Lycomings 0-360 from the 801 site and downrated the
firewall
> > forward weight to 400 lbs. I built mine incorporating several added
structural
> > beef ups since I knew it would need it. 801BH shows no sign of
deforming
> > anywhere and other then the hokey nose gear bushings and a undersized
> > horizontal/elevator design for this size plane I am VERY happy with its
performance.
> > Keep building guys cause the feeling one gets on the first flight is
> > PRICELESS.. .
> >
> > Ben Haas N801BH. Jackson Hole Wy.
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Left seat Right seat Center seat... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
What are you most comfortable with.
Cessna is flown from the left seat because that's where the instruments
are. Left hand on yoke and right hand on throttle.
Piper is flown also from the left seat because it is the one farthest
from the exit. Again, left hand on yoke and right hand on throttle.
I have yet to fly a tandem (other than one amateur built Chinook) that
has your left hand on the stick. Also, look at fighter jets. Right
hand on the stick. Helicopters are traditionally flown from the right
to put your right hand on the cyclic (stick) and left on the collective
(power). I may be wrong, but don't some newer European aircraft fly
from the right seat?
Does it matter? Only when you are getting very low on short final and
forget which seat you are sitting in and which hand does what and if
your fan is on top or in front ...push left and pull right, or pull left
and push right?
I hope this helps clear things up.
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
Closing right wing
22% complete
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
I'm in the process of plans building a 601XL and was wondering if anyone is done
and not using their clecos and pliers. I'm willing to give fair dollar and pay
shipping. I live in Alberta
Dave
dnimigon@telusplanet.net
Message 24
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Does anyone have tha drawings for the Home Depot bending brake
dnimigon@telusplanet.net
Message 25
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Would anyone have a list of materials for the 601XL.
Not sure how much I'll need, especialy sheeting
dnimigon@telusplanet.net
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: dual stick option/ Left handed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Is the same here, but when an accident (fatal) where there were
ocupants (both pilots) in both seats, a logical statement is that the
left pilot was the PIC, or a student if the case.
Normally airplanes with dual or full dual (included brakes) can be
flown from either side, but instruments are normally arranged for left
side seat, this is my question... just follow the previous designers
or a justified reason. Just thought about it, will not keep me awaken
if I dont get an answer :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- john H <professor71@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
>
>
> I don't know about Mexican laws, but in the US you can legally fly
> from either side
>
>
> From: Keith Ashcraft keith.ashcraft@itt.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/Left handed
> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:17:44 -0700
>
> -- Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Ashcraft
> keith.ashcraft@itt.com
>
>
> Hi Gary,
>
> A question to the experts:Is there a reason (legal or else) to fly
> from the left seat in airplanes?Just thought about it...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Guadalajara, Jalisco Mexico.
>
>
> Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1!
> (Limited-time offer)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave (theCoverts)" <dave@thecoverts.com>
Anybody know of a builder putting a Corvair engine on a 701? I am wondering
about the extent of mods needed to use a >205lb engine on a 701...
Dave
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Left seat Right seat Center seat... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Is a thing of practice and reflexes.
Just a note, off list.
I drive 3 diferent motorcycles, with diferent foot controls each:
An Enfield (India) with right foot shift, first up and all down and
left foot brake. A Yamaha with left foot shift "normal" 1st down and
all up, with right foot brake. Also a Honda C-90 semiauto left foot
all down, no foot brake or clutch...
The only dificult part is in emergency "automatic" response, I once
pressed the shift pedal instead of the brake, but could handle the
incident fine, a litle adrenaline but that was all. Practice is the
only advice.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
>
>
> What are you most comfortable with.
>
> Cessna is flown from the left seat because that's where the
> instruments
> are. Left hand on yoke and right hand on throttle.
>
> Piper is flown also from the left seat because it is the one farthest
> from the exit. Again, left hand on yoke and right hand on throttle.
>
> I have yet to fly a tandem (other than one amateur built Chinook)
> that
> has your left hand on the stick. Also, look at fighter jets. Right
> hand on the stick. Helicopters are traditionally flown from the
> right
> to put your right hand on the cyclic (stick) and left on the
> collective
> (power). I may be wrong, but don't some newer European aircraft fly
> from the right seat?
>
> Does it matter? Only when you are getting very low on short final
> and
> forget which seat you are sitting in and which hand does what and if
> your fan is on top or in front ...push left and pull right, or pull
> left
> and push right?
>
> I hope this helps clear things up.
>
> Martin Bima
> STOL-Vair
> Closing right wing
> 22% complete
>
>
__________________________________
Message 29
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| Subject: | RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
One of the advantages of building our own airplanes is we can put the
instruments and engine controls anywhere we want to. With the center stick,
one can have remote controls for radio and transponder and whatelse either
on the stick or on the panel in easy reach of the left hand.
Bob Miller
Message 30
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
The engine is too heavy, It will need lots of reinforcement and Weight
& Balance problems to solve. This is for ZAC to answer...
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- "Dave (theCoverts)" <dave@thecoverts.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave (theCoverts)"
> <dave@thecoverts.com>
>
>
> Anybody know of a builder putting a Corvair engine on a 701? I am
> wondering
> about the extent of mods needed to use a >205lb engine on a 701...
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 31
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot Update |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
For those of you following Sport Pilot progress, there was an official
update from the FAA relayed by USUA.
Complete text is reproduced at www.CH701.com
Patience is the key here....!!
Jon
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 3/25/04 9:14 AM, "jlatimer1@cox.net" <jlatimer1@cox.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
>
> I fly Super Cubs and Piper Warriors.
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but a yoke really isn't valid for
comparison since it can be flown either hand and all the issues brought up
to now are rendered moot...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
Message 33
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot Update |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
try this!
http://eaa.org/communications/eaanews/040325_sp.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jon Croke
Subject: Zenith-List: Sport Pilot Update
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
For those of you following Sport Pilot progress, there was an official
update from the FAA relayed by USUA.
Complete text is reproduced at www.CH701.com
Patience is the key here....!!
Jon
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@comcast.net>
There certainly has been a lot of postings about the stick issue. I
personally think you should do considerable thinking about being comfortable
while flying the plane, and include the question of "what am I going to do
with the OTHER hand?". I flew a Cessna for many years and always thought it
was "dumb engineering" to have your right hand uncomfortably hanging out
there in space holding on to the throttle during operations. Why didn't
they provide a more comfortable method of reaching and manipulating the
throttle??? When I designed the cockpit layout of my HDS, I gave much
thought to "what would be comfortable". I laid out my instrument panel with
dual throttles (much like you see in Zenith's demo plane). I positioned the
pilots throttle at the lower left corner of the instrument panel. As a
matter of fact I positioned it so that when I'm totally relaxed that my
forearm rests comfortably on my left knee against the left side panel, while
my fingers are on the throttle knob. I can fly for hours and not feel
fatigue from throttle or carb heat operations.
If you'd care to see my panel and cockpit interior layout, try clicking on
this web link:
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=Zodie_Rocket&action=display&private=1
About 2 weeks ago while doing a run-up before take-off, a friend of mine
noted how far the stick can move left and right during the "control check".
He commented that if there were two sticks between our legs instead of in
the center that it would be more awkward as two peoples legs would be in the
way of stick movements, and that passengers could get "up tight", feeling
that they are getting in the way. He also commented that the single stick
sure made it easier for the pilot and passengers to get in and out.
As one or two of the other builders have said, do what seems best for you.
As for me,.... well, I've got 112 hours on my 601 HDS and I personally love
the center stick. Left arm comfortably rested, controlling the throttle and
carb heat, right arm comfortably resting on the center arm rest controlling
the stick.......
Smooth landings guys
Fred Hulen
Message 35
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Steve Dixon" <dix39@charter.net>
FWIW
I agree that it is a bit heavy for the 701, but it is in the weight ballpark
of the numerous Subaru and Continental engines that have been used to power
this airplane. I considered it, but thought it turned a bit fast for the
701 and opted for the 0-200.
Steve Dixon
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> The engine is too heavy, It will need lots of reinforcement and Weight
> & Balance problems to solve. This is for ZAC to answer...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Do not archive.
> --- "Dave (theCoverts)" <dave@thecoverts.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave (theCoverts)"
> > <dave@thecoverts.com>
> >
> >
> > Anybody know of a builder putting a Corvair engine on a 701? I am
> > wondering
> > about the extent of mods needed to use a >205lb engine on a 701...
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 36
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I'm putting a heaver engine than that in my 701, 259lbs. I talked to zak
about it several times and they said it shouldn't be a problem with the new
updated kit, which I have. Radiator and batteries in the back to balance
CG. I'll have to play with it a little. Plus I'm using PegaStol wings
which give an additional 100 lbs useful load.
Plus the main reason I am so set about using dual sticks is because I want
to build a center console. Flying it is ok with either arrangement.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gower" <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Corvair
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
> The engine is too heavy, It will need lots of reinforcement and Weight
> & Balance problems to solve. This is for ZAC to answer...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Do not archive.
> --- "Dave (theCoverts)" <dave@thecoverts.com> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave (theCoverts)"
> > <dave@thecoverts.com>
> >
> >
> > Anybody know of a builder putting a Corvair engine on a 701? I am
> > wondering
> > about the extent of mods needed to use a >205lb engine on a 701...
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
---
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Thanks Roger, but I haven't heard anything about a 701 conversion. Plus I
prefer to do my own, it's cheaper.
Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
>
> Larry, evidently the folks at Zenair have heard yours and others plight on
this subject and a dual stick retrofit I believe is available. Call the
factory I'm sure they can help all of you that are thinking of making the
comversion.
>
> RJ
> CH-701/912ULS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Martin
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
> I can fly it either way. But to me the question is "Which is the most
> logical and practical?". The center stick is a departure from the norm.
As
> I said before the vast majority of aircraft that use a stick
configuration,
> go with dual sticks. The 701 cabin is pretty small as it is. So, why
would
> one want to waste usable space by putting a stick in the middle of it,
when
> the space between you legs is not used anyway? The passenger/co-pilot
stick
> can easily be made removable by pinning or bolting it. As it is now and
I
> have experience it, the center stick causes the passenger some
discomfort
> because the stick can and often hits his/her left leg when the pilot is
> taking a right turn. The dual stick is easily usable with either hand
while
> the center stick dictates which hand you must use. To me the dual stick
> option is a "no-brainer".
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
> To: <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: center stick
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hi list
> > i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair
> > power. I have been watching this list and wonder why
> > people are going for the duel stick option. I believe
> > the center stick would be ideal for the left hand
> > occupant. I can also see that the right seater would
> > have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem?
> > I my past, usually the right seater is basically a
> > passenger and would not be flying that much.
> >
> > I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the
> > center position of the stick. seems like it would be
> > a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance
> > or exit. What are your thoughts.
> >
> > john butterfield
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Have you seen how they put almost all throttles on gyros? They are down by
your left thigh. It is really comfortable. I have all the parts left over
from one of my gyros and am giving it serious consideration to doing just
that. I've flown quite a bit with a seat throttle and really like it, it's
a natural position for your left hand.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred or Sandy Hulen" <hulens61@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: center stick
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Fred or Sandy Hulen"
<hulens61@comcast.net>
>
> There certainly has been a lot of postings about the stick issue. I
> personally think you should do considerable thinking about being
comfortable
> while flying the plane, and include the question of "what am I going to do
> with the OTHER hand?". I flew a Cessna for many years and always thought
it
> was "dumb engineering" to have your right hand uncomfortably hanging out
> there in space holding on to the throttle during operations. Why didn't
> they provide a more comfortable method of reaching and manipulating the
> throttle??? When I designed the cockpit layout of my HDS, I gave much
> thought to "what would be comfortable". I laid out my instrument panel
with
> dual throttles (much like you see in Zenith's demo plane). I positioned
the
> pilots throttle at the lower left corner of the instrument panel. As a
> matter of fact I positioned it so that when I'm totally relaxed that my
> forearm rests comfortably on my left knee against the left side panel,
while
> my fingers are on the throttle knob. I can fly for hours and not feel
> fatigue from throttle or carb heat operations.
>
> If you'd care to see my panel and cockpit interior layout, try clicking on
> this web link:
>
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/pm.cgi?login=Zodie_Rocket&action=display&p
rivate=1
>
> About 2 weeks ago while doing a run-up before take-off, a friend of mine
> noted how far the stick can move left and right during the "control
check".
> He commented that if there were two sticks between our legs instead of in
> the center that it would be more awkward as two peoples legs would be in
the
> way of stick movements, and that passengers could get "up tight", feeling
> that they are getting in the way. He also commented that the single stick
> sure made it easier for the pilot and passengers to get in and out.
>
> As one or two of the other builders have said, do what seems best for you.
> As for me,.... well, I've got 112 hours on my 601 HDS and I personally
love
> the center stick. Left arm comfortably rested, controlling the throttle
and
> carb heat, right arm comfortably resting on the center arm rest
controlling
> the stick.......
>
> Smooth landings guys
>
> Fred Hulen
>
>
---
Message 39
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| Subject: | OAT Sensor location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Any suggestions as to where is the best place to put the Outside Air Temperature
Gauge (OAT) sensor?
---
Message 40
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| Subject: | The MYTH of dual sticks |
Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:45:25 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>>The center Y stick adds a lot of simplicity and lightness.
>>An airplane is a cloud of compromises riveted together. Just do it.
>I agree w/ Leo: the Y-stick is smaller, lighter, simpler and transparent
>to use from either seat. It's well thought out.
Thank you gentlemen, agree wholeheartedly. The center Y IS the greatest thing
since sliced bread and peanut butter. The simplicity of design with fewer parts
and less weight echoes Chris Heintz's genius and a dedication to do things
simply. To imply that the utilitarian layout was done "...because it was easy,"
is to equate complication with excellence and simplicity with mediocrity.
Chris' body of work (for homebuilders) is simple but far from mediocre.
For the lurkers and wannabes out there who now have a new conundrum about which
to worry:
Keep it simple - resist the urge to change things - you're likely not an aeronautical
engineer.
See the real thing - real life often shows you that some ideas are best left unfertilized.
Sit in the model of your choice, for as long as the owner will allow. A twenty
minute test flight with Roger does not an expert make.
Realize that comparing rotorcraft and gyros to the Zenith models is...well, apples
and oranges.
Realize that most of the pro dual stick posting come from folks not yet finished
and flying. This was not meant as a sarcastic remark. George and Leo probably
have 700 + hours of 601 time between them.
If you get a flight the owner's insurance is not likely to allow you in the left
seat. Your judgment about ease of flying the a/c may be clouded by a short
right seat flight (especially if the hand you use during the flight is not your
normal flight hand or your dominant hand).
If building/thinking about the 601 series - stand on the wing and think about getting
in the seat with a stick in the middle of it. Think about shoelaces, trouser
cuffs, and family jewels becoming entangled with that. Think about how
your passengers are going to feel. Most of your pax will be a bit unnerved about
getting in your beautiful creation the first time, now throw the hurdle of
a stick at 'em. The area taken by the Y-stick in the 601 is small and is comparable
to a 5x7 photo.
If building/thinking about the 701 - you want to pick that leg up over that stick?
You say the center Y-stick takes up space so now you're going to save space
by having two sticks? Two is less than one?
Mount the throttle, carb heat, flap switch right where your left hand will access
them as you rest your forearm/wrist on your knee. Your other forearm is on
the armrest controlling the center Y. The "armrest rule" in my a/c is simple
- the armrest belong to whomever is flying - a few fellows on the list will confirm
that rule as I tell it to all who come for a test flight. This setup allows
far less fatigue than the typical spamcan induces.
Since there has been a lot of preaching about safety that comes "only" with the
dual sticks, don't preach safety without taking into account that pilot fatigue
is a major factor in many misjudgments.
>If you gotta have dual sticks, OK, but don't tell me they're: needed, safer, better!
Amen! It's your a/c, knock yourself out, but they (dual sticks) are one way, not
the only way. And you "dual stickers," may you never slip or misstep and
find your voice two octaves higher.
tailwinds jeff (The latest issue of the Zenair Newsletter has begun the listing
of builders willing to take other prospective builders for flights. This
list should continue to grow so take advantage of it and experience things off
the ground.)
Message 41
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>
>The engine is too heavy, It will need lots of reinforcement and Weight
>& Balance problems to solve. This is for ZAC to answer...
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower
>
How interesting, I have a letter in my file from Chris in which he answers my
question of mounting the corvair in the 701 by saying " use the Corvair as is
with no airframe modifications" Blanket statements without homework sometimes
misinform those who haven't done their homework either,everybody looses. LOW&SLOW
John
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
Sorry but I disagree. With the yoke you fly the plane with the left hand and the
right hand is busy with throttle, radio, mixture, etc.
My point the plane doesn't care which hand is used, and your mind and hands only
take a few seconds to adjust to whatever you are using to fly the aircraft.
Like Leo said before, when you think right hand turn the plane turns right.
Jerry
do not archive
> Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but a yoke really isn't valid for
> comparison since it can be flown either hand and all the issues brought up
> to now are rendered moot...
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> Ray Montagne
> Cupertino, CA
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: dual stick option/ Left handed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
Hi Gary
I'm not quite sure what you are asking. I agree that in case of an accident
that the authorities would probably assume the PIC or student was in the
left seat. I have a feeling that US built planes fly from the left because
that is the side we drive our cars from. I'm not sure if European built
planes are set up the same or if they fly from the right side. Maybe someone
from Europe could help out here. I have actually mounted my instruments in
the center of my panel on my 601 so they are easy to read from both sides.
That way my passenger friends can fly and not have to look across the panel
to see. One of the nice things about being experimental.
Regards
John
Do not archive
From: Gary Gower ggower_99@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed
Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower ggower_99@yahoo.com
Is the same here, but when an accident (fatal) where there were
ocupants (both pilots) in both seats, a logical statement is that the
left pilot was the PIC, or a student if the case.
Normally airplanes with dual or full dual (included brakes) can be
flown from either side, but instruments are normally arranged for left
side seat, this is my question... just follow the previous designers
or a justified reason. Just thought about it, will not keep me awaken
if I dont get an answer :-)
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Zenith: off list |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
Hello Leo
I may be getting a trojan from the list. I have gotten the following message a
couple of times. Your name was hidden in the message source. Does your IP address
match the one below? I copied this directly form the message source window.
If you don't know how to do this in Outlook Express just right click any message;
and go down to "properties"; and select "details".
> Delivered-To: kbonds@worldshare.net
>Received: from computer ( [207.144.214.185])
>by visp5.pacificnet.net (smtpd 0.4) with SMTP id 1080259967.23837
>env-from (leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net) ; Thu Mar 25 16:12:46 2004 -0800 (PST)
>Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:00:10 -0500
>To: kbonds@worldshare.net
>Subject: Important notify about your e-mail account.
>From: support@worldshare.net
>Message-ID: <tnwvlnwmqcfyouhlehq@worldshare.net>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>
>----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid
>Hello user of Worldshare.net e-mail server,
>Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail content)
>outgoing from your e-mail account. Probably, you have been infected by
>a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer safe,
>follow the instructions.
>
>Further details can be obtained from attached file.
>
>Attached file is protected with the password for security reasons. Password
is >27.
>
>Sincerely,
> The Worldshare.net team http://www.worldshare.net
>----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid
You can see your name in the env-from line. I'm fairley sure this is not legit.
I have emailed support to find out. But I don't believe the IP address above
is inside my (the Worldshare) network. I of course did not open the attached file
so I am not infected. This could have nothing to do with you. If the IP address
does not match yours then it is probably not from you unless someone has
figured out how to spoof that too! Anyway let me know if this looks fishey to
you. Maybe we can figure it out.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville Tn
601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go!
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith: off list |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 3/25/04 10:08 PM, "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
>
> Hello Leo
>
> I may be getting a trojan from the list.
The list filters attachments which makes it impossible for you to get a
trojan horse directly from the list. It is more likely that you're getting
this from directly from someone on the list who has a trojan horse
installed...
Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
Message 46
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
John,
Those are good news, I have read about this engine conversion a lot,
more interest now that William Wayne is using the 601 XL...
Will be a great project, once our kits are finished, or maybe as a
side work for resting after a deburing sesion :-)
Thanks a lot for the posting.
Saludos
Gary Gower
--- jnbolding1 <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1"
> <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:23:28 -0800 (PST)
>
> >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
> >
> >The engine is too heavy, It will need lots of reinforcement and
> Weight
> >& Balance problems to solve. This is for ZAC to answer...
> >
> >Saludos
> >Gary Gower
> >
> How interesting, I have a letter in my file from Chris in which he
> answers my question of mounting the corvair in the 701 by saying "
> use the Corvair as is with no airframe modifications" Blanket
> statements without homework sometimes misinform those who haven't
> done their homework either,everybody looses. LOW&SLOW John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Dual Stick option |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
This is a great truth... If the mind will not adjust to the diference,
just imagine this, some of my normal saturdays:
I drive the truck to my shop, take the motorcycle to the strip, then go
flying. In the afternoon everyting the oposite until I get home.
Imagine what will happen if my brain will not adjust to the diferent
machines, end of my comments about the dual or Y Stick... Just built
as you feel like to.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive.
--- jlatimer1@cox.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <jlatimer1@cox.net>
>
> Sorry but I disagree. With the yoke you fly the plane with the left
> hand and the right hand is busy with throttle, radio, mixture, etc.
>
> My point the plane doesn't care which hand is used, and your mind and
> hands only take a few seconds to adjust to whatever you are using to
> fly the aircraft.
>
> Like Leo said before, when you think right hand turn the plane turns
> right.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
> > Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but a yoke really isn't valid for
> > comparison since it can be flown either hand and all the issues
> brought up
> > to now are rendered moot...
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> > Ray Montagne
> > Cupertino, CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: dual stick option/ Left handed |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
John,
Good reason, I just was curios. Thanks for your comment.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.
--- john H <professor71@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "john H" <professor71@hotmail.com>
>
> Hi Gary
> I'm not quite sure what you are asking. I agree that in case of an
> accident
> that the authorities would probably assume the PIC or student was in
> the
> left seat. I have a feeling that US built planes fly from the left
> because
> that is the side we drive our cars from. I'm not sure if European
> built
> planes are set up the same or if they fly from the right side. Maybe
> someone
> from Europe could help out here. I have actually mounted my
> instruments in
> the center of my panel on my 601 so they are easy to read from both
> sides.
> That way my passenger friends can fly and not have to look across the
> panel
> to see. One of the nice things about being experimental.
> Regards
> John
> Do not archive
>
> From: Gary Gower ggower_99@yahoo.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed
> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:29:27 -0800 (PST)
>
> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower ggower_99@yahoo.com
>
> Is the same here, but when an accident (fatal) where there were
> ocupants (both pilots) in both seats, a logical statement is that the
> left pilot was the PIC, or a student if the case.
>
> Normally airplanes with dual or full dual (included brakes) can be
> flown from either side, but instruments are normally arranged for
> left
> side seat, this is my question... just follow the previous
> designers
> or a justified reason. Just thought about it, will not keep me
> awaken
> if I dont get an answer :-)
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower
> Do not archive.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com
John,
Just one more humble opinion on the dual/center stick question: The only
good argument I have seen yet for dual sticks is having the writing hand free if
you're IFR. Even then having the lap free for approach plates and all might
lead to the center stick. The rest seems like personal preference, and that
really is what it comes down to.
I am a ways from flying, but I have had two shots at flying the demo 701.
The center stick seemed OK to me. One reason I rather prefer the center stick
is that I am not as nimble as I used to be. Flying on floats requires pretty
quick exits sometimes, and it seems easier with a center stick. A headfirst
exit is amusing to the audience but considered bad form in most circles.
But it could be hanger talked forever. What do you like?
Jim Greenough
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Re: Zenith: off list |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Looks like one, just dont open any attachment without scanning it with
your antivirus, in any dought just delete the message. Lately there
are lots of messages with attachments of about 30K that are trojans,
just delete them.
Saludos
Gary Gower
Do not archive
--- Kevin W Bonds <kbonds@worldshare.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds"
> <kbonds@worldshare.net>
>
> Hello Leo
>
> I may be getting a trojan from the list. I have gotten the following
> message a couple of times. Your name was hidden in the message
> source. Does your IP address match the one below? I copied this
> directly form the message source window. If you don't know how to do
> this in Outlook Express just right click any message; and go down to
> "properties"; and select "details".
>
> > Delivered-To: kbonds@worldshare.net
> >Received: from computer ( [207.144.214.185])
> >by visp5.pacificnet.net (smtpd 0.4) with SMTP id 1080259967.23837
> >env-from (leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net) ; Thu Mar 25 16:12:46 2004
> -0800 (PST)
> >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:00:10 -0500
> >To: kbonds@worldshare.net
> >Subject: Important notify about your e-mail account.
> >From: support@worldshare.net
> >Message-ID: <tnwvlnwmqcfyouhlehq@worldshare.net>
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >
> >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid
>
> >Hello user of Worldshare.net e-mail server,
>
> >Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail
> content)
> >outgoing from your e-mail account. Probably, you have been
> infected by
> >a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer
> safe,
> >follow the instructions.
> >
> >Further details can be obtained from attached file.
> >
> >Attached file is protected with the password for security reasons.
> Password is >27.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> > The Worldshare.net team
> http://www.worldshare.net
>
> >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid
>
> You can see your name in the env-from line. I'm fairley sure this is
> not legit. I have emailed support to find out. But I don't believe
> the IP address above is inside my (the Worldshare) network. I of
> course did not open the attached file so I am not infected. This
> could have nothing to do with you. If the IP address does not match
> yours then it is probably not from you unless someone has figured out
> how to spoof that too! Anyway let me know if this looks fishey to
> you. Maybe we can figure it out.
>
> Kevin Bonds
> Nashville Tn
> 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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