Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:39 AM - Re: 801 crash? (Benford2@aol.com)
2. 03:34 AM - Sport Pilot Rule Delay (Elwood140@aol.com)
3. 04:57 AM - Re: center stick (Roger Roy)
4. 08:28 AM - Savannah vs CH701 (88tierra)
5. 10:31 AM - Re: The MYTH of dual sticks (Dan knezacek)
6. 11:45 AM - Zenith center stick (Robert Schoenberger)
7. 12:22 PM - Re: Zenith center stick (Ron DeWees)
8. 12:27 PM - Sun-n-Fun (Brett Ray)
9. 12:37 PM - Re: T throttle (Brett Ray)
10. 12:48 PM - Re: Zenith center stick (Frank Stutzman)
11. 01:04 PM - Re: 701 center stick and flying from the right side (Dabusmith@aol.com)
12. 01:10 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Roger Roy)
13. 02:48 PM - Battery cable terminals (George Swinford)
14. 02:57 PM - Re: T throttle (Wayne McIntosh)
15. 02:58 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Robert Schoenberger)
16. 03:25 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Jon Croke)
17. 03:51 PM - Re: OAT Sensor location (royt.or@netzero.com)
18. 04:00 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
19. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: OAT Sensor location (Roger Roy)
20. 04:33 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Roger Roy)
21. 04:37 PM - Battery cable terminal question (George Swinford)
22. 05:07 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Larry McFarland)
23. 07:09 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Jim and Lucy)
24. 08:05 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
Here is the lonk to the mishap in California. The NTSB usually posts a final
report in less then 1 year from the date on an accident but this crash seems
puzzling for sure. Gary Liming and I both have called the LAX office and tried
to get some info but they will not release anything to either of us. Maybe
someone else in this group have some pull with the Feds.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030312X00321&key=1
Ben Haas N801BH
Message 2
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot Rule Delay |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com
Is anyone surprised?
SPORT PILOT RULE UNEXPECTEDLY RETURNS TO FAA
The FAA has temporarily withdrawn the proposed Sport Pilot rule from
consideration by the federal Office of Management and Budget. Just
before a 90-day review period expired, FAA Administrator Marion Blakey
ordered the proposal withdrawn so that the agency could answer questions
about its economic costs and benefits. The questions were raised during
the OMB review, essentially the final step in the approval process for
the new Sport Pilot certificate and accompanying Light-Sport Aircraft
category. AOPA has supported the Sport Pilot rule in large part because
of the proposal's recognition that a driver's license is adequate evidence
of medical fitness to fly. For more information on the proposal, see AOPA's
regulatory brief ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/regsport.html
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: center stick |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:57:02 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
I don't dispute that Larry, cost is now always a prime factor to consider as this
sport is trying if not already there pricing itself out of business. I'm not
familiar with Gyro throttle setup but your proposition sounds worthwhile. I
guess the bottom line is, this is EXPERIMENTAL and we are allowed to do exactly
that. Whatever you decide please keep us posted as I'm certain many on the
list have an interest on that topic. Good luck.
RJ
Savannah N7802W
CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Thanks Roger, but I haven't heard anything about a 701 conversion. Plus I
prefer to do my own, it's cheaper.
Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
>
> Larry, evidently the folks at Zenair have heard yours and others plight on
this subject and a dual stick retrofit I believe is available. Call the
factory I'm sure they can help all of you that are thinking of making the
comversion.
>
> RJ
> CH-701/912ULS
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Larry Martin
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:05 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
> I can fly it either way. But to me the question is "Which is the most
> logical and practical?". The center stick is a departure from the norm.
As
> I said before the vast majority of aircraft that use a stick
configuration,
> go with dual sticks. The 701 cabin is pretty small as it is. So, why
would
> one want to waste usable space by putting a stick in the middle of it,
when
> the space between you legs is not used anyway? The passenger/co-pilot
stick
> can easily be made removable by pinning or bolting it. As it is now and
I
> have experience it, the center stick causes the passenger some
discomfort
> because the stick can and often hits his/her left leg when the pilot is
> taking a right turn. The dual stick is easily usable with either hand
while
> the center stick dictates which hand you must use. To me the dual stick
> option is a "no-brainer".
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john butterfield" <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
> To: <Zenith-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: center stick
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield
> <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
> >
> > Hi list
> > i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair
> > power. I have been watching this list and wonder why
> > people are going for the duel stick option. I believe
> > the center stick would be ideal for the left hand
> > occupant. I can also see that the right seater would
> > have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem?
> > I my past, usually the right seater is basically a
> > passenger and would not be flying that much.
> >
> > I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the
> > center position of the stick. seems like it would be
> > a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance
> > or exit. What are your thoughts.
> >
> > john butterfield
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | Savannah vs CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" <lnk@cis.net>
Roger, I almost missed the fact that your signature indicates you have a
flying Savannah but are building a CH701. While evaluating options over the
past few years I had considered both models and even though I now plan to
build a 601XL I am still a fan of the 701. Forgive me if it has been
discussed before but I am curious about your feelings about the two craft,
how do they compare, how do they differ, etc. It would be very interesting,
too, to know how they compare in flight once you reach that point.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Roy
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Snip ><--
... RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection
Do not Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: The MYTH of dual sticks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" <dknezace@bconnex.net>
Well said Jeff!
When I first flew the 701 I flew several hours from the right seat. I guess
I wasn't supposed to do that since the left is designated as the pilot seat
in that particular plane. Evidently, in Canada, the builder can chose which
seat he wants to designate as the pilot seat.
I found this arrangement was more intuitive for a Cessna/Piper pilot.
Eventually my instructor insisted that I fly from the left seat and I found
that it really wasn't that difficult.
Sincerely,
Dan Knezacek
CH601 HD Soob EA81/Reductions redrive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: The MYTH of dual sticks
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
>
> >>The center Y stick adds a lot of simplicity and lightness.
>
> >>An airplane is a cloud of compromises riveted together. Just do it.
>
> >I agree w/ Leo: the Y-stick is smaller, lighter, simpler and transparent
> >to use from either seat. It's well thought out.
>
> Thank you gentlemen, agree wholeheartedly. The center Y IS the greatest
thing since sliced bread and peanut butter. The simplicity of design with
fewer parts and less weight echoes Chris Heintz's genius and a dedication to
do things simply. To imply that the utilitarian layout was done "...because
it was easy," is to equate complication with excellence and simplicity with
mediocrity. Chris' body of work (for homebuilders) is simple but far from
mediocre.
>
> For the lurkers and wannabes out there who now have a new conundrum about
which to worry:
>
> Keep it simple - resist the urge to change things - you're likely not an
aeronautical engineer.
>
> See the real thing - real life often shows you that some ideas are best
left unfertilized.
>
> Sit in the model of your choice, for as long as the owner will allow. A
twenty minute test flight with Roger does not an expert make.
>
> Realize that comparing rotorcraft and gyros to the Zenith models
is...well, apples and oranges.
>
> Realize that most of the pro dual stick posting come from folks not yet
finished and flying. This was not meant as a sarcastic remark. George and
Leo probably have 700 + hours of 601 time between them.
>
> If you get a flight the owner's insurance is not likely to allow you in
the left seat. Your judgment about ease of flying the a/c may be clouded by
a short right seat flight (especially if the hand you use during the flight
is not your normal flight hand or your dominant hand).
>
> If building/thinking about the 601 series - stand on the wing and think
about getting in the seat with a stick in the middle of it. Think about
shoelaces, trouser cuffs, and family jewels becoming entangled with that.
Think about how your passengers are going to feel. Most of your pax will be
a bit unnerved about getting in your beautiful creation the first time, now
throw the hurdle of a stick at 'em. The area taken by the Y-stick in the
601 is small and is comparable to a 5x7 photo.
>
> If building/thinking about the 701 - you want to pick that leg up over
that stick? You say the center Y-stick takes up space so now you're going
to save space by having two sticks? Two is less than one?
>
> Mount the throttle, carb heat, flap switch right where your left hand will
access them as you rest your forearm/wrist on your knee. Your other forearm
is on the armrest controlling the center Y. The "armrest rule" in my a/c is
simple - the armrest belong to whomever is flying - a few fellows on the
list will confirm that rule as I tell it to all who come for a test flight.
This setup allows far less fatigue than the typical spamcan induces.
>
> Since there has been a lot of preaching about safety that comes "only"
with the dual sticks, don't preach safety without taking into account that
pilot fatigue is a major factor in many misjudgments.
>
> >If you gotta have dual sticks, OK, but don't tell me they're: needed,
safer, better!
>
> Amen! It's your a/c, knock yourself out, but they (dual sticks) are one
way, not the only way. And you "dual stickers," may you never slip or
misstep and find your voice two octaves higher.
>
> tailwinds jeff (The latest issue of the Zenair Newsletter has begun the
listing of builders willing to take other prospective builders for flights.
This list should continue to grow so take advantage of it and experience
things off the ground.)
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Zenith center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick setup? A
lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in England is a connection
as to why our planes have center sticks. In my 701 demo ride I was
very impressed with the feel of the center stick (from the right seat) , but I
wonder a bit about the rest of the right hand stuff like writing headings, operating
radios, etc. when in the left seat.
It wouldn't take much thought to design a lateral stick extension which would go
left horizontally from a point just below the stick wye. This could be folded
against the stick when the extension is not needed. On long trips, It would
also give one's hand/arm a rest. This would be very similar to a rudder hiking
stick on sailboats.
How are others storing completed parts? I have the completed right wing back in
the box it came in (slightly extended) with the trailing edge up and the bottom
edge resting on the slat supports. My garage space is very limited, and there's
no room in the basement aircraft factory.
Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing done
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Robert,
I just got thur reading Ken Follet's book; Hornet Flight , which describes a
covered cockpit version of the Tiger Moth doing a perilous flight in
wartime. Good reading and lots of description of the plane and the center
"y" stick.
Ron D
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith center stick
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
<hrs1@frontiernet.net>
>
> List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick
setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in
England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. -Snip_
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
Any of you going to Sun N Fun stop by and see me. I will have my
plane in the ultralight section booth #58. We are going be there all
week and I would like to meet some of you guys in person. And you can
check out the Harley engine while your there. We should be doing some
fly overs during the week as well.
Hope to see you there.
Brett
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
I know some of you guys don't like or will even think about change but.
I put my throttle on the stick like a motorcycle. Except you twist
forward to go and back to stop. And it has a friction lock right on it.
It really works nice and your hand is always on it. Some long time
pilots here were not to sure about it until they tried it and so far
they like it. Just another idea.
Brett Ray
owner Hog Air
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith center stick |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Robert Schoenberger wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
>
> List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick
> setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in
> England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. In my
Ah, er, I'm no tiger moth expert, but I thought they had tandem seating.
Pictures at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Cockpits/TigerMoth.htm and
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/tigermothflightbg_1.htm seem show this.
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 701 center stick and flying from the right side |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
A nice feature of the 701 is the great visibility looking back to the
downwind traffic through the cabin roof over the wing. From the left seat it is
great
when turning base leg on a right hand pattern and from the right seat it is
great in a left hand pattern. You 601 guys have the best view.
We have been having a ball with my 701. I'll be sending some pictures to
Jon's web site soon. We have flown almost 130 hours in the last 4 1/2 months!
Dave Smith
N701XL 912ULS
Thun Field, Puyallop Wa.
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Savannah vs CH701 |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:10:42 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
You are quite observant. I flew a CH701 a few years ago and it met all of my expectations for a STOL aircraft and was delight to fly with a 80 hp Rotax. About a year or so ago I bought a set of plans for review but undecided whether to scratch build or build from a kit. I was one evening surfing Barnstormers web site when I came upon the Savannah USA Rep web site. He is located in Virginia and I in Boston MA so a phone call and the next weekend I was on the road for 10 hrs to pay Bill Magrini a visit and a demo flight. Once again I enjoyed the flight as much as the 701. The Savannah had a 912S and the take off and climb performance was somewhat increased but the cruise was about the same with two of us weighing 230# each and 10 gal of fuel in fact I liked it so much that I ordered one that day Five weeks later Jan12, 2002 the kits was delivered and the hardest part building the kit was inventory of all the parts. The kit came complete, all sheet metal cut to exact specs all holes drilled and deburred using a water/laser CNC equipment. All instruments flight and engine were provided, all electrical harnesses made "Plug "n" Play all hardware nuts bolts rivets etc. they even include a pneumatic riveter that worked flawlessly. Anyway to shorten up this story I started to build Jan21, 2002 and first flight was April 22, 2002. So I listed my CH-701 plans for sale and of course everyone that contacted me was offering top $$$$ 100.00 when I had paid 385.00 so I sat on it until Fall of 2002 and decided to build over the winter months. Building the 701 was fun only because the design is almost identical with the exception of the empennage section and a few other minor differrences. Started to scratch build in Sept 2002 and finished Feb 22,2004 (17 months) If I hadn't had the Savannah to have a copy it could have been much longer. I might add I have access of a lot of sheet metal tooling that the average homebuilder does not have. Savannah has the following websites if you're interested www.icp.it which is the manufacturer in Italy and www.sky-rider.net Feel free to contact me if you would like additional info. BTW you can't beat a 601XL for cross country flying, excellent choice. In fact I'm toying with the idea of ordering an XL for next winter building. I have a Lycoming O-235-N2C in a craft with a fresh overhaul, that could be just what needs to power that beauty. Cheers
RJ
Savannah N7802W
CH-701 Spring Take Off?????
----- Original Message -----
From: 88tierra
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" <lnk@cis.net>
Roger, I almost missed the fact that your signature indicates you have a
flying Savannah but are building a CH701. While evaluating options over the
past few years I had considered both models and even though I now plan to
build a 601XL I am still a fan of the 701. Forgive me if it has been
discussed before but I am curious about your feelings about the two craft,
how do they compare, how do they differ, etc. It would be very interesting,
too, to know how they compare in flight once you reach that point.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Roy
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Snip ><--
... RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection
Do not Archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Battery cable terminals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
I have AMP terminals for my #4 battery cables. These terminals have a body which
has an ID approximately the same as the diameter of the insulation sheath on
the #4 cable and is 7/16 inch long. The picture in the ACS catalog notes that
the terminal can be crimped or soldered. I asume that in either case the insulation
is to be stripped back 7/16 of an inch. Is it better to solder or crimp
these terminals? I have a crimping tool which will create a depression perpendicular
to the axis of the terminal. Is one crimp sufficient?
I also have a different style terminal (also by AMP) which has a closed cavity
about an inch deep into which the cable is to be inserted. I'm guessing that for
these terminals the cable is to be stripped back about half an inch,crimped
once on the bare cable and once on the insulated portion, similar to the way
smaller AMP terminals are crimped.
I'd appreciate some input from builders who have done this already.
George Swinford
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
Brett,
Now that is neat! Is it a regular motorcycle twist grip? And I take it
it uses a cable operated throttle on the carb right? Do you think it could
be used with an airplane carb with a lever on the carb that goes to full
throttle when the linkage falls off?
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
---- Original Message -----
From: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
>
> I know some of you guys don't like or will even think about change but.
> I put my throttle on the stick like a motorcycle. Except you twist
> forward to go and back to stop. And it has a friction lock right on it.
> It really works nice and your hand is always on it. Some long time
> pilots here were not to sure about it until they tried it and so far
> they like it. Just another idea.
>
>
> Brett Ray
> owner Hog Air
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Savannah vs CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
The movie on www.icp.it surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a
701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
>
> You are quite observant. I flew a CH701 a few years ago and it met all of
my expectations for a STOL aircraft and was delight to fly with a 80 hp
Rotax. About a year or so ago I bought a set of plans for review but
undecided whether to scratch build or build from a kit. I was one evening
surfing Barnstormers web site when I came upon the Savannah USA Rep web
site. He is located in Virginia and I in Boston MA so a phone call and the
next weekend I was on the road for 10 hrs to pay Bill Magrini a visit and a
demo flight. Once again I enjoyed the flight as much as the 701. The
Savannah had a 912S and the take off and climb performance was somewhat
increased but the cruise was about the same with two of us weighing 230#
each and 10 gal of fuel in fact I liked it so much that I ordered one that
day Five weeks later Jan12, 2002 the kits was delivered and the hardest
part building the kit was inventory of all the parts. The kit came complete,
all sheet metal cut to exact specs al!
> l holes drilled and deburred using a water/laser CNC equipment. All
instruments flight and engine were provided, all electrical harnesses made
"Plug "n" Play all hardware nuts bolts rivets etc. they even include a
pneumatic riveter that worked flawlessly. Anyway to shorten up this story I
started to build Jan21, 2002 and first flight was April 22, 2002. So I
listed my CH-701 plans for sale and of course everyone that contacted me was
offering top $$$$ 100.00 when I had paid 385.00 so I sat on it until Fall of
2002 and decided to build over the winter months. Building the 701 was fun
only because the design is almost identical with the exception of the
empennage section and a few other minor differrences. Started to scratch
build in Sept 2002 and finished Feb 22,2004 (17 months) If I hadn't had the
Savannah to have a copy it could have been much longer. I might add I have
access of a lot of sheet metal tooling that the average homebuilder does not
have. Savannah has the fo!
> llowing websites if you're interested www.icp.it which is the manufacturer
in Italy and www.sky-rider.net Feel free to contact me if you would like
additional info. BTW you can't beat a 601XL for cross country flying,
excellent choice. In fact I'm toying with the idea of ordering an XL for
next winter building. I have a Lycoming O-235-N2C in a craft with a fresh
overhaul, that could be just what needs to power that beauty. Cheers
>
> RJ
> Savannah N7802W
> CH-701 Spring Take Off?????
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 88tierra
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:26 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" <lnk@cis.net>
>
> Roger, I almost missed the fact that your signature indicates you have a
> flying Savannah but are building a CH701. While evaluating options over
the
> past few years I had considered both models and even though I now plan
to
> build a 601XL I am still a fan of the 701. Forgive me if it has been
> discussed before but I am curious about your feelings about the two
craft,
> how do they compare, how do they differ, etc. It would be very
interesting,
> too, to know how they compare in flight once you reach that point.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Roy
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
>
> Snip ><--
> ... RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Battery cable terminals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
For those of us w/o those big crimpers..... I just used a propane torch and
spool of solder and made a very nice attachment....! Also, I used welding
cables... flexible, and easily attainable... and come in all colors of the
rainbow as long as your rainbow is BLACK! (used red tape on ends for
marker)
Jon
N701US rebuild
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
> I have AMP terminals for my #4 battery cables. These terminals have a body
which has an ID approximately the same as the diameter of the insulation
sheath on the #4 cable and is 7/16 inch long. The picture in the ACS catalog
notes that the terminal can be crimped or soldered. I asume that in either
case the insulation is to be stripped back 7/16 of an inch. Is it better to
solder or crimp these terminals? I have a crimping tool which will create a
depression perpendicular to the axis of the terminal. Is one crimp
sufficient?
>
> I also have a different style terminal (also by AMP) which has a closed
cavity about an inch deep into which the cable is to be inserted. I'm
guessing that for these terminals the cable is to be stripped back about
half an inch,crimped once on the bare cable and once on the insulated
portion, similar to the way smaller AMP terminals are crimped.
>
> I'd appreciate some input from builders who have done this already.
>
> George Swinford
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: OAT Sensor location |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com
Larry,
Many planes flying with NACA fresh air ducts on the sides have the OAT sensor mounted in the duct. The ducts I used from Van's Aircraft (Vent SV-1 at http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1080344727-272-3&browse=heatvent&product=ventilation-components) had a mold mark in the center that I used for positioning my OAT sensors. (Both my EIS and my uEncoder have an OAT).
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 179hrs
"Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net> wrote
Any suggestions as to where is the best place to put the Outside Air Temperature
Gauge (OAT) sensor?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Battery cable terminals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Unless you have some really high-dollar crimpers that effectively crimp the
entire length of the terminal body you should consider the following: This is
a HIGH current circuit, the starter motor.
A couple of half-hearted squeezes with Radio Shack crimpers just won't do the
job. So, cut off however much insolation is required for a flush fit in the
terminal, lay it on an anvil and smack it right hard, evenly, lovingly, etc,
with a hammer then apply plenty of solder.
If you don't have an iron of sufficient wattage, use a propane torch. Flow
the solder. FLOW. It'll be nice and shiny when it cools. Apply red tape on
the "positive" cable to keep the electrons from getting mixed up. Same process,
different color for the ground cable. And one other caution.....take a look
at the terminal.....satisfy yourself that the metal tang with the bolt hole is
sufficiently beefy to carry as much current as the starter demands. Welding
supply stores have the heavy copper terminals that exactly fit #4 (or whatever
size) welding cable, and these terminals generally are available in several
bolt-hole sizes.
Check cable prices there, too.
77 degrees in NE Texas.
Zed Smith/R912/701/91% do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: OAT Sensor location |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:08:05 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
Larry, my OAT probe for the Savannah is mounted on the floor under the co-pilots
seat. I have a 5X5 access panel on the seat and it works AOK in that position
also easy to get at should it ever need maintenance, ie. probe change, wiring,
so I mounted the probe for the 701 in the same place. Cheers
RJ
----- Original Message -----
From: royt.or@netzero.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: OAT Sensor location
--> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com
Larry,
Many planes flying with NACA fresh air ducts on the sides have the OAT sensor mounted in the duct. The ducts I used from Van's Aircraft (Vent SV-1 at http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1080344727-272-3&browseheatvent&productventilation-components) had a mold mark in the center that I used for positioning my OAT sensors. (Both my EIS and my uEncoder have an OAT).
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 179hrs
"Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net> wrote
Any suggestions as to where is the best place to put the Outside Air Temperature
Gauge (OAT) sensor?
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Battery cable terminals |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:32:41 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" <Savannah174@msn.com>
I have soldered my battery connection the same way Jon mentioned but I have used
the long handle nicopress swaging tool and you are able to put three (3) crimps.
How long will it last you ask? I'm running on two (2) years on set of cables
on a Long EZ and they look like I crimped them yesterday, The soldered connections
have to be cleaned periodically due to flux corrosion no big deal but
its something to keep an eye on. The flux I used was acid in nature should have
used an electronic flux and perhaps should have had them silver soldered.
Some how I always manage to remember the operative word EXPERIMENTAL, only in
America, Cheers
RJ
Savannah N7802W
CH-701 N9869L
----- Original Message -----
From: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Unless you have some really high-dollar crimpers that effectively crimp the
entire length of the terminal body you should consider the following: This is
a HIGH current circuit, the starter motor.
A couple of half-hearted squeezes with Radio Shack crimpers just won't do the
job. So, cut off however much insolation is required for a flush fit in the
terminal, lay it on an anvil and smack it right hard, evenly, lovingly, etc,
with a hammer then apply plenty of solder.
If you don't have an iron of sufficient wattage, use a propane torch. Flow
the solder. FLOW. It'll be nice and shiny when it cools. Apply red tape on
the "positive" cable to keep the electrons from getting mixed up. Same process,
different color for the ground cable. And one other caution.....take a look
at the terminal.....satisfy yourself that the metal tang with the bolt hole is
sufficiently beefy to carry as much current as the starter demands. Welding
supply stores have the heavy copper terminals that exactly fit #4 (or whatever
size) welding cable, and these terminals generally are available in several
bolt-hole sizes.
Check cable prices there, too.
77 degrees in NE Texas.
Zed Smith/R912/701/91% do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Battery cable terminal question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
I should have described the crimper I have. It is a tool which holds the shank
of the terminal in a circular depression. A spring-loaded lever with a projecting
lug is located just above the depression. You put the terminal (with the cable
inserted) in the depression, then smack the end of the lever with a hammer.
This flattens the shank of the terminal somewhat. The projecting lug puts a
pretty good dimple in the terminal and causes the cable to pretty much fill the
available space inside the shank of the terminal. I tried this and can't pull
the terminal off. Flowing some solder into the terminal after all this might
be a good idea.
Thanks for the input.
George Swinford
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Battery cable terminals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
George,
I soldered the terminals for my #4 battery cables
and was very pleased with the results. I used a
silver bearing solder which seems to work better as
well from Radio Shack.
Larry McFarland 601HDS
Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
Is it better to solder or crimp these terminals? > I'd appreciate some
input from builders who have done this already.
>
> George Swinford
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Battery cable terminals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
At 02:55 PM 3/26/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
>I have AMP terminals
I always liked the closed end ones around batteries because
it keeps the wire ends from corroding due to battery fumes.
I don't think you want to put the insulation in the crimps,
not on these big wires anyway. If you got room to double
crimp I think it would be better to crimp 2 times on the wire
itself.
A big piece of heat shrink will seal this area after the end
is attached.
I have a local farm dealer do most of mine. They have a
tool that looks like a pair of bolt cutters.
Jim Pollard
ch601hds
ea81
installing fuel pumps in wing
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Battery cable terminals |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/26/04 5:55 PM, George Swinford at grs-pms@comcast.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
> I have AMP terminals for my #4 battery cables. These terminals have a body
> which has an ID approximately the same as the diameter of the insulation
> sheath on the #4 cable and is 7/16 inch long. The picture in the ACS catalog
> notes that the terminal can be crimped or soldered. I asume that in either
> case the insulation is to be stripped back 7/16 of an inch. Is it better to
> solder or crimp these terminals? I have a crimping tool which will create a
> depression perpendicular to the axis of the terminal. Is one crimp sufficient?
If the crimper is designed for to put a tight crimp on the entire length of
these terminals then crimping alone is fine. If in doubt, crimp and then
flow some solder into the terminal. The starter can draw over 200 amps, so
the termination must be tight and continuous over its entire length.
>
> I also have a different style terminal (also by AMP) which has a closed cavity
> about an inch deep into which the cable is to be inserted. I'm guessing that
> for these terminals the cable is to be stripped back about half an
> inch,crimped once on the bare cable and once on the insulated portion, similar
> to the way smaller AMP terminals are crimped.
>
You don't crimp the insulation on this type of terminal, just the conductor.
The conductor should just fit into the terminal with a minimum of slop. Then
you can cover the ends with heat shrink.
You might want to check out this link:
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?25X358218
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Nearly done.
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