---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/26/04: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:39 AM - Re: 801 crash? (Benford2@aol.com) 2. 03:34 AM - Sport Pilot Rule Delay (Elwood140@aol.com) 3. 04:57 AM - Re: center stick (Roger Roy) 4. 08:28 AM - Savannah vs CH701 (88tierra) 5. 10:31 AM - Re: The MYTH of dual sticks (Dan knezacek) 6. 11:45 AM - Zenith center stick (Robert Schoenberger) 7. 12:22 PM - Re: Zenith center stick (Ron DeWees) 8. 12:27 PM - Sun-n-Fun (Brett Ray) 9. 12:37 PM - Re: T throttle (Brett Ray) 10. 12:48 PM - Re: Zenith center stick (Frank Stutzman) 11. 01:04 PM - Re: 701 center stick and flying from the right side (Dabusmith@aol.com) 12. 01:10 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Roger Roy) 13. 02:48 PM - Battery cable terminals (George Swinford) 14. 02:57 PM - Re: T throttle (Wayne McIntosh) 15. 02:58 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Robert Schoenberger) 16. 03:25 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Jon Croke) 17. 03:51 PM - Re: OAT Sensor location (royt.or@netzero.com) 18. 04:00 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) 19. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: OAT Sensor location (Roger Roy) 20. 04:33 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Roger Roy) 21. 04:37 PM - Battery cable terminal question (George Swinford) 22. 05:07 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Larry McFarland) 23. 07:09 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Jim and Lucy) 24. 08:05 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Bryan Martin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:27 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 crash? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com Here is the lonk to the mishap in California. The NTSB usually posts a final report in less then 1 year from the date on an accident but this crash seems puzzling for sure. Gary Liming and I both have called the LAX office and tried to get some info but they will not release anything to either of us. Maybe someone else in this group have some pull with the Feds. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030312X00321&key=1 Ben Haas N801BH ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:34:35 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Sport Pilot Rule Delay --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com Is anyone surprised? SPORT PILOT RULE UNEXPECTEDLY RETURNS TO FAA The FAA has temporarily withdrawn the proposed Sport Pilot rule from consideration by the federal Office of Management and Budget. Just before a 90-day review period expired, FAA Administrator Marion Blakey ordered the proposal withdrawn so that the agency could answer questions about its economic costs and benefits. The questions were raised during the OMB review, essentially the final step in the approval process for the new Sport Pilot certificate and accompanying Light-Sport Aircraft category. AOPA has supported the Sport Pilot rule in large part because of the proposal's recognition that a driver's license is adequate evidence of medical fitness to fly. For more information on the proposal, see AOPA's regulatory brief ( http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/regsport.html ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:44 AM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:57:02 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" I don't dispute that Larry, cost is now always a prime factor to consider as this sport is trying if not already there pricing itself out of business. I'm not familiar with Gyro throttle setup but your proposition sounds worthwhile. I guess the bottom line is, this is EXPERIMENTAL and we are allowed to do exactly that. Whatever you decide please keep us posted as I'm certain many on the list have an interest on that topic. Good luck. RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Martin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:33 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Thanks Roger, but I haven't heard anything about a 701 conversion. Plus I prefer to do my own, it's cheaper. Do not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Roy" To: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > Larry, evidently the folks at Zenair have heard yours and others plight on this subject and a dual stick retrofit I believe is available. Call the factory I'm sure they can help all of you that are thinking of making the comversion. > > RJ > CH-701/912ULS > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Martin > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:05 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > > I can fly it either way. But to me the question is "Which is the most > logical and practical?". The center stick is a departure from the norm. As > I said before the vast majority of aircraft that use a stick configuration, > go with dual sticks. The 701 cabin is pretty small as it is. So, why would > one want to waste usable space by putting a stick in the middle of it, when > the space between you legs is not used anyway? The passenger/co-pilot stick > can easily be made removable by pinning or bolting it. As it is now and I > have experience it, the center stick causes the passenger some discomfort > because the stick can and often hits his/her left leg when the pilot is > taking a right turn. The dual stick is easily usable with either hand while > the center stick dictates which hand you must use. To me the dual stick > option is a "no-brainer". > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john butterfield" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: center stick > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield > > > > > Hi list > > i am planning to build the Zodiac XL using corvair > > power. I have been watching this list and wonder why > > people are going for the duel stick option. I believe > > the center stick would be ideal for the left hand > > occupant. I can also see that the right seater would > > have to fly left handed, but is this such a problem? > > I my past, usually the right seater is basically a > > passenger and would not be flying that much. > > > > I guess my real question is, do you people dislike the > > center position of the stick. seems like it would be > > a handy location and not be in the way upon entrance > > or exit. What are your thoughts. > > > > john butterfield > > > > > > > --- > > --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:10 AM PST US From: "88tierra" Subject: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" Roger, I almost missed the fact that your signature indicates you have a flying Savannah but are building a CH701. While evaluating options over the past few years I had considered both models and even though I now plan to build a 601XL I am still a fan of the 701. Forgive me if it has been discussed before but I am curious about your feelings about the two craft, how do they compare, how do they differ, etc. It would be very interesting, too, to know how they compare in flight once you reach that point. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Roy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Snip ><-- ... RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:14 AM PST US From: "Dan knezacek" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: The MYTH of dual sticks --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" Well said Jeff! When I first flew the 701 I flew several hours from the right seat. I guess I wasn't supposed to do that since the left is designated as the pilot seat in that particular plane. Evidently, in Canada, the builder can chose which seat he wants to designate as the pilot seat. I found this arrangement was more intuitive for a Cessna/Piper pilot. Eventually my instructor insisted that I fly from the left seat and I found that it really wasn't that difficult. Sincerely, Dan Knezacek CH601 HD Soob EA81/Reductions redrive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Zenith-List: The MYTH of dual sticks > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" > > >>The center Y stick adds a lot of simplicity and lightness. > > >>An airplane is a cloud of compromises riveted together. Just do it. > > >I agree w/ Leo: the Y-stick is smaller, lighter, simpler and transparent > >to use from either seat. It's well thought out. > > Thank you gentlemen, agree wholeheartedly. The center Y IS the greatest thing since sliced bread and peanut butter. The simplicity of design with fewer parts and less weight echoes Chris Heintz's genius and a dedication to do things simply. To imply that the utilitarian layout was done "...because it was easy," is to equate complication with excellence and simplicity with mediocrity. Chris' body of work (for homebuilders) is simple but far from mediocre. > > For the lurkers and wannabes out there who now have a new conundrum about which to worry: > > Keep it simple - resist the urge to change things - you're likely not an aeronautical engineer. > > See the real thing - real life often shows you that some ideas are best left unfertilized. > > Sit in the model of your choice, for as long as the owner will allow. A twenty minute test flight with Roger does not an expert make. > > Realize that comparing rotorcraft and gyros to the Zenith models is...well, apples and oranges. > > Realize that most of the pro dual stick posting come from folks not yet finished and flying. This was not meant as a sarcastic remark. George and Leo probably have 700 + hours of 601 time between them. > > If you get a flight the owner's insurance is not likely to allow you in the left seat. Your judgment about ease of flying the a/c may be clouded by a short right seat flight (especially if the hand you use during the flight is not your normal flight hand or your dominant hand). > > If building/thinking about the 601 series - stand on the wing and think about getting in the seat with a stick in the middle of it. Think about shoelaces, trouser cuffs, and family jewels becoming entangled with that. Think about how your passengers are going to feel. Most of your pax will be a bit unnerved about getting in your beautiful creation the first time, now throw the hurdle of a stick at 'em. The area taken by the Y-stick in the 601 is small and is comparable to a 5x7 photo. > > If building/thinking about the 701 - you want to pick that leg up over that stick? You say the center Y-stick takes up space so now you're going to save space by having two sticks? Two is less than one? > > Mount the throttle, carb heat, flap switch right where your left hand will access them as you rest your forearm/wrist on your knee. Your other forearm is on the armrest controlling the center Y. The "armrest rule" in my a/c is simple - the armrest belong to whomever is flying - a few fellows on the list will confirm that rule as I tell it to all who come for a test flight. This setup allows far less fatigue than the typical spamcan induces. > > Since there has been a lot of preaching about safety that comes "only" with the dual sticks, don't preach safety without taking into account that pilot fatigue is a major factor in many misjudgments. > > >If you gotta have dual sticks, OK, but don't tell me they're: needed, safer, better! > > Amen! It's your a/c, knock yourself out, but they (dual sticks) are one way, not the only way. And you "dual stickers," may you never slip or misstep and find your voice two octaves higher. > > tailwinds jeff (The latest issue of the Zenair Newsletter has begun the listing of builders willing to take other prospective builders for flights. This list should continue to grow so take advantage of it and experience things off the ground.) > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:45:01 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. In my 701 demo ride I was very impressed with the feel of the center stick (from the right seat) , but I wonder a bit about the rest of the right hand stuff like writing headings, operating radios, etc. when in the left seat. It wouldn't take much thought to design a lateral stick extension which would go left horizontally from a point just below the stick wye. This could be folded against the stick when the extension is not needed. On long trips, It would also give one's hand/arm a rest. This would be very similar to a rudder hiking stick on sailboats. How are others storing completed parts? I have the completed right wing back in the box it came in (slightly extended) with the trailing edge up and the bottom edge resting on the slat supports. My garage space is very limited, and there's no room in the basement aircraft factory. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing done ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:22 PM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" Hi Robert, I just got thur reading Ken Follet's book; Hornet Flight , which describes a covered cockpit version of the Tiger Moth doing a perilous flight in wartime. Good reading and lots of description of the plane and the center "y" stick. Ron D do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith center stick > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. -Snip_ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:59 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Zenith-List: Sun-n-Fun --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" Any of you going to Sun N Fun stop by and see me. I will have my plane in the ultralight section booth #58. We are going be there all week and I would like to meet some of you guys in person. And you can check out the Harley engine while your there. We should be doing some fly overs during the week as well. Hope to see you there. Brett ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:40 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" I know some of you guys don't like or will even think about change but. I put my throttle on the stick like a motorcycle. Except you twist forward to go and back to stop. And it has a friction lock right on it. It really works nice and your hand is always on it. Some long time pilots here were not to sure about it until they tried it and so far they like it. Just another idea. Brett Ray owner Hog Air ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:42 PM PST US From: Frank Stutzman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Robert Schoenberger wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick > setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in > England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. In my Ah, er, I'm no tiger moth expert, but I thought they had tandem seating. Pictures at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Cockpits/TigerMoth.htm and http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/tigermothflightbg_1.htm seem show this. Frank Stutzman Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl" Hood River, OR ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:12 PM PST US From: Dabusmith@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 701 center stick and flying from the right side --> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com A nice feature of the 701 is the great visibility looking back to the downwind traffic through the cabin roof over the wing. From the left seat it is great when turning base leg on a right hand pattern and from the right seat it is great in a left hand pattern. You 601 guys have the best view. We have been having a ball with my 701. I'll be sending some pictures to Jon's web site soon. We have flown almost 130 hours in the last 4 1/2 months! Dave Smith N701XL 912ULS Thun Field, Puyallop Wa. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:53 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:10:42 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" You are quite observant. I flew a CH701 a few years ago and it met all of my expectations for a STOL aircraft and was delight to fly with a 80 hp Rotax. About a year or so ago I bought a set of plans for review but undecided whether to scratch build or build from a kit. I was one evening surfing Barnstormers web site when I came upon the Savannah USA Rep web site. He is located in Virginia and I in Boston MA so a phone call and the next weekend I was on the road for 10 hrs to pay Bill Magrini a visit and a demo flight. Once again I enjoyed the flight as much as the 701. The Savannah had a 912S and the take off and climb performance was somewhat increased but the cruise was about the same with two of us weighing 230# each and 10 gal of fuel in fact I liked it so much that I ordered one that day Five weeks later Jan12, 2002 the kits was delivered and the hardest part building the kit was inventory of all the parts. The kit came complete, all sheet metal cut to exact specs all holes drilled and deburred using a water/laser CNC equipment. All instruments flight and engine were provided, all electrical harnesses made "Plug "n" Play all hardware nuts bolts rivets etc. they even include a pneumatic riveter that worked flawlessly. Anyway to shorten up this story I started to build Jan21, 2002 and first flight was April 22, 2002. So I listed my CH-701 plans for sale and of course everyone that contacted me was offering top $$$$ 100.00 when I had paid 385.00 so I sat on it until Fall of 2002 and decided to build over the winter months. Building the 701 was fun only because the design is almost identical with the exception of the empennage section and a few other minor differrences. Started to scratch build in Sept 2002 and finished Feb 22,2004 (17 months) If I hadn't had the Savannah to have a copy it could have been much longer. I might add I have access of a lot of sheet metal tooling that the average homebuilder does not have. Savannah has the following websites if you're interested www.icp.it which is the manufacturer in Italy and www.sky-rider.net Feel free to contact me if you would like additional info. BTW you can't beat a 601XL for cross country flying, excellent choice. In fact I'm toying with the idea of ordering an XL for next winter building. I have a Lycoming O-235-N2C in a craft with a fresh overhaul, that could be just what needs to power that beauty. Cheers RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Spring Take Off????? ----- Original Message ----- From: 88tierra To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:26 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" Roger, I almost missed the fact that your signature indicates you have a flying Savannah but are building a CH701. While evaluating options over the past few years I had considered both models and even though I now plan to build a 601XL I am still a fan of the 701. Forgive me if it has been discussed before but I am curious about your feelings about the two craft, how do they compare, how do they differ, etc. It would be very interesting, too, to know how they compare in flight once you reach that point. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Roy To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Snip ><-- ... RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:17 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" I have AMP terminals for my #4 battery cables. These terminals have a body which has an ID approximately the same as the diameter of the insulation sheath on the #4 cable and is 7/16 inch long. The picture in the ACS catalog notes that the terminal can be crimped or soldered. I asume that in either case the insulation is to be stripped back 7/16 of an inch. Is it better to solder or crimp these terminals? I have a crimping tool which will create a depression perpendicular to the axis of the terminal. Is one crimp sufficient? I also have a different style terminal (also by AMP) which has a closed cavity about an inch deep into which the cable is to be inserted. I'm guessing that for these terminals the cable is to be stripped back about half an inch,crimped once on the bare cable and once on the insulated portion, similar to the way smaller AMP terminals are crimped. I'd appreciate some input from builders who have done this already. George Swinford ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:07 PM PST US From: "Wayne McIntosh" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" Brett, Now that is neat! Is it a regular motorcycle twist grip? And I take it it uses a cable operated throttle on the carb right? Do you think it could be used with an airplane carb with a lever on the carb that goes to full throttle when the linkage falls off? Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN ---- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: T throttle > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" > > I know some of you guys don't like or will even think about change but. > I put my throttle on the stick like a motorcycle. Except you twist > forward to go and back to stop. And it has a friction lock right on it. > It really works nice and your hand is always on it. Some long time > pilots here were not to sure about it until they tried it and so far > they like it. Just another idea. > > > Brett Ray > owner Hog Air > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:35 PM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" The movie on www.icp.it surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a 701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > You are quite observant. I flew a CH701 a few years ago and it met all of my expectations for a STOL aircraft and was delight to fly with a 80 hp Rotax. About a year or so ago I bought a set of plans for review but undecided whether to scratch build or build from a kit. I was one evening surfing Barnstormers web site when I came upon the Savannah USA Rep web site. He is located in Virginia and I in Boston MA so a phone call and the next weekend I was on the road for 10 hrs to pay Bill Magrini a visit and a demo flight. Once again I enjoyed the flight as much as the 701. The Savannah had a 912S and the take off and climb performance was somewhat increased but the cruise was about the same with two of us weighing 230# each and 10 gal of fuel in fact I liked it so much that I ordered one that day Five weeks later Jan12, 2002 the kits was delivered and the hardest part building the kit was inventory of all the parts. The kit came complete, all sheet metal cut to exact specs al! > l holes drilled and deburred using a water/laser CNC equipment. All instruments flight and engine were provided, all electrical harnesses made "Plug "n" Play all hardware nuts bolts rivets etc. they even include a pneumatic riveter that worked flawlessly. Anyway to shorten up this story I started to build Jan21, 2002 and first flight was April 22, 2002. So I listed my CH-701 plans for sale and of course everyone that contacted me was offering top $$$$ 100.00 when I had paid 385.00 so I sat on it until Fall of 2002 and decided to build over the winter months. Building the 701 was fun only because the design is almost identical with the exception of the empennage section and a few other minor differrences. Started to scratch build in Sept 2002 and finished Feb 22,2004 (17 months) If I hadn't had the Savannah to have a copy it could have been much longer. I might add I have access of a lot of sheet metal tooling that the average homebuilder does not have. Savannah has the fo! > llowing websites if you're interested www.icp.it which is the manufacturer in Italy and www.sky-rider.net Feel free to contact me if you would like additional info. BTW you can't beat a 601XL for cross country flying, excellent choice. In fact I'm toying with the idea of ordering an XL for next winter building. I have a Lycoming O-235-N2C in a craft with a fresh overhaul, that could be just what needs to power that beauty. Cheers > > RJ > Savannah N7802W > CH-701 Spring Take Off????? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: 88tierra > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:26 AM > Subject: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" > > Roger, I almost missed the fact that your signature indicates you have a > flying Savannah but are building a CH701. While evaluating options over the > past few years I had considered both models and even though I now plan to > build a 601XL I am still a fan of the 701. Forgive me if it has been > discussed before but I am curious about your feelings about the two craft, > how do they compare, how do they differ, etc. It would be very interesting, > too, to know how they compare in flight once you reach that point. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Roy > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > Snip ><-- > ... RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection > > Do not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:23 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" For those of us w/o those big crimpers..... I just used a propane torch and spool of solder and made a very nice attachment....! Also, I used welding cables... flexible, and easily attainable... and come in all colors of the rainbow as long as your rainbow is BLACK! (used red tape on ends for marker) Jon N701US rebuild ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" > > I have AMP terminals for my #4 battery cables. These terminals have a body which has an ID approximately the same as the diameter of the insulation sheath on the #4 cable and is 7/16 inch long. The picture in the ACS catalog notes that the terminal can be crimped or soldered. I asume that in either case the insulation is to be stripped back 7/16 of an inch. Is it better to solder or crimp these terminals? I have a crimping tool which will create a depression perpendicular to the axis of the terminal. Is one crimp sufficient? > > I also have a different style terminal (also by AMP) which has a closed cavity about an inch deep into which the cable is to be inserted. I'm guessing that for these terminals the cable is to be stripped back about half an inch,crimped once on the bare cable and once on the insulated portion, similar to the way smaller AMP terminals are crimped. > > I'd appreciate some input from builders who have done this already. > > George Swinford > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:30 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: OAT Sensor location From: royt.or@netzero.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com Larry, Many planes flying with NACA fresh air ducts on the sides have the OAT sensor mounted in the duct. The ducts I used from Van's Aircraft (Vent SV-1 at http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1080344727-272-3&browse=heatvent&product=ventilation-components) had a mold mark in the center that I used for positioning my OAT sensors. (Both my EIS and my uEncoder have an OAT). Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 179hrs "Larry Martin" wrote Any suggestions as to where is the best place to put the Outside Air Temperature Gauge (OAT) sensor? ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:15 PM PST US From: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Unless you have some really high-dollar crimpers that effectively crimp the entire length of the terminal body you should consider the following: This is a HIGH current circuit, the starter motor. A couple of half-hearted squeezes with Radio Shack crimpers just won't do the job. So, cut off however much insolation is required for a flush fit in the terminal, lay it on an anvil and smack it right hard, evenly, lovingly, etc, with a hammer then apply plenty of solder. If you don't have an iron of sufficient wattage, use a propane torch. Flow the solder. FLOW. It'll be nice and shiny when it cools. Apply red tape on the "positive" cable to keep the electrons from getting mixed up. Same process, different color for the ground cable. And one other caution.....take a look at the terminal.....satisfy yourself that the metal tang with the bolt hole is sufficiently beefy to carry as much current as the starter demands. Welding supply stores have the heavy copper terminals that exactly fit #4 (or whatever size) welding cable, and these terminals generally are available in several bolt-hole sizes. Check cable prices there, too. 77 degrees in NE Texas. Zed Smith/R912/701/91% do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:08:15 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: OAT Sensor location Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:08:05 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Larry, my OAT probe for the Savannah is mounted on the floor under the co-pilots seat. I have a 5X5 access panel on the seat and it works AOK in that position also easy to get at should it ever need maintenance, ie. probe change, wiring, so I mounted the probe for the 701 in the same place. Cheers RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: royt.or@netzero.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:50 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: OAT Sensor location --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com Larry, Many planes flying with NACA fresh air ducts on the sides have the OAT sensor mounted in the duct. The ducts I used from Van's Aircraft (Vent SV-1 at http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident1080344727-272-3&browseheatvent&productventilation-components) had a mold mark in the center that I used for positioning my OAT sensors. (Both my EIS and my uEncoder have an OAT). Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 179hrs "Larry Martin" wrote Any suggestions as to where is the best place to put the Outside Air Temperature Gauge (OAT) sensor? ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:02 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:32:41 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" I have soldered my battery connection the same way Jon mentioned but I have used the long handle nicopress swaging tool and you are able to put three (3) crimps. How long will it last you ask? I'm running on two (2) years on set of cables on a Long EZ and they look like I crimped them yesterday, The soldered connections have to be cleaned periodically due to flux corrosion no big deal but its something to keep an eye on. The flux I used was acid in nature should have used an electronic flux and perhaps should have had them silver soldered. Some how I always manage to remember the operative word EXPERIMENTAL, only in America, Cheers RJ Savannah N7802W CH-701 N9869L ----- Original Message ----- From: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Unless you have some really high-dollar crimpers that effectively crimp the entire length of the terminal body you should consider the following: This is a HIGH current circuit, the starter motor. A couple of half-hearted squeezes with Radio Shack crimpers just won't do the job. So, cut off however much insolation is required for a flush fit in the terminal, lay it on an anvil and smack it right hard, evenly, lovingly, etc, with a hammer then apply plenty of solder. If you don't have an iron of sufficient wattage, use a propane torch. Flow the solder. FLOW. It'll be nice and shiny when it cools. Apply red tape on the "positive" cable to keep the electrons from getting mixed up. Same process, different color for the ground cable. And one other caution.....take a look at the terminal.....satisfy yourself that the metal tang with the bolt hole is sufficiently beefy to carry as much current as the starter demands. Welding supply stores have the heavy copper terminals that exactly fit #4 (or whatever size) welding cable, and these terminals generally are available in several bolt-hole sizes. Check cable prices there, too. 77 degrees in NE Texas. Zed Smith/R912/701/91% do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:21 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminal question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" I should have described the crimper I have. It is a tool which holds the shank of the terminal in a circular depression. A spring-loaded lever with a projecting lug is located just above the depression. You put the terminal (with the cable inserted) in the depression, then smack the end of the lever with a hammer. This flattens the shank of the terminal somewhat. The projecting lug puts a pretty good dimple in the terminal and causes the cable to pretty much fill the available space inside the shank of the terminal. I tried this and can't pull the terminal off. Flowing some solder into the terminal after all this might be a good idea. Thanks for the input. George Swinford ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:36 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" George, I soldered the terminals for my #4 battery cables and was very pleased with the results. I used a silver bearing solder which seems to work better as well from Radio Shack. Larry McFarland 601HDS Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" > Is it better to solder or crimp these terminals? > I'd appreciate some input from builders who have done this already. > > George Swinford ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:48 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy At 02:55 PM 3/26/2004 -0800, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" > >I have AMP terminals I always liked the closed end ones around batteries because it keeps the wire ends from corroding due to battery fumes. I don't think you want to put the insulation in the crimps, not on these big wires anyway. If you got room to double crimp I think it would be better to crimp 2 times on the wire itself. A big piece of heat shrink will seal this area after the end is attached. I have a local farm dealer do most of mine. They have a tool that looks like a pair of bolt cutters. Jim Pollard ch601hds ea81 installing fuel pumps in wing ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 3/26/04 5:55 PM, George Swinford at grs-pms@comcast.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" > > I have AMP terminals for my #4 battery cables. These terminals have a body > which has an ID approximately the same as the diameter of the insulation > sheath on the #4 cable and is 7/16 inch long. The picture in the ACS catalog > notes that the terminal can be crimped or soldered. I asume that in either > case the insulation is to be stripped back 7/16 of an inch. Is it better to > solder or crimp these terminals? I have a crimping tool which will create a > depression perpendicular to the axis of the terminal. Is one crimp sufficient? If the crimper is designed for to put a tight crimp on the entire length of these terminals then crimping alone is fine. If in doubt, crimp and then flow some solder into the terminal. The starter can draw over 200 amps, so the termination must be tight and continuous over its entire length. > > I also have a different style terminal (also by AMP) which has a closed cavity > about an inch deep into which the cable is to be inserted. I'm guessing that > for these terminals the cable is to be stripped back about half an > inch,crimped once on the bare cable and once on the insulated portion, similar > to the way smaller AMP terminals are crimped. > You don't crimp the insulation on this type of terminal, just the conductor. The conductor should just fit into the terminal with a minimum of slop. Then you can cover the ends with heat shrink. You might want to check out this link: http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?25X358218 -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Nearly done.