---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 03/27/04: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:55 AM - tiger moth (alex trent) 2. 06:14 AM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Cy Galley) 3. 06:21 AM - Battery cable terminals per AeroElectric Connection (Bob Miller) 4. 06:39 AM - Wing support (Tebenkof@aol.com) 5. 07:05 AM - Re: Wing support (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) 6. 07:51 AM - Re: Zenith: off list (Cy Galley) 7. 09:14 AM - Re: Zenith: off list (Kevin W Bonds) 8. 09:59 AM - Re: Zenith: off list (88tierra) 9. 10:16 AM - Battery cable terminals (George Swinford) 10. 10:23 AM - Re: Zenith: off list (Cy Galley) 11. 10:40 AM - Re: Wing support (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com) 12. 10:54 AM - Re: Wing support (Rich) 13. 10:58 AM - Test message, please ignore (Gordon Duke) 14. 11:09 AM - What is a Savannah? (Gordon Duke) 15. 12:18 PM - Re: What is a Savannah? (Ray Montagne) 16. 01:09 PM - Re: What is a Savannah? (Gordon Duke) 17. 01:35 PM - Re: Zenith: off list (Leo J. Corbalis) 18. 01:41 PM - Battery terminals. (Leo J. Corbalis) 19. 01:44 PM - Re: Wing support (Bryan Martin) 20. 01:47 PM - Re: tiger moth (Leo J. Corbalis) 21. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: What is a Savannah? (Ray Montagne) 22. 02:20 PM - Santa Maria CA Fly-in (April 30-May 2) (Cory Emberson) 23. 02:59 PM - Re: ZAK (Dave & Darlene) 24. 03:07 PM - Re: Wing support (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com) 25. 03:28 PM - Re: Re: ZAK (Roger Roy) 26. 04:38 PM - Wing stiffener -not support (Tebenkof@aol.com) 27. 04:43 PM - Re: tiger moth (Ron DeWees) 28. 04:48 PM - Re: Wing stiffener -not support (Ray Montagne) 29. 07:54 PM - Primer (Dave & Darlene) 30. 09:21 PM - Re: Zenith: off list (Kevin W Bonds) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:00 AM PST US From: alex trent Subject: Zenith-List: tiger moth --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent Any tiger moth that I have seen was tandem. alex t. >On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Robert Schoenberger wrote: > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" >> >>List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick >>setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in >>England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. In my >> >> > >Ah, er, I'm no tiger moth expert, but I thought they had tandem seating. > >Pictures at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Cockpits/TigerMoth.htm and >http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/tigermothflightbg_1.htm seem show this. > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:13 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Many welding supply houses may have the crimper to make up the proper length and size cable. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals > --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com > > Unless you have some really high-dollar crimpers that effectively crimp the > entire length of the terminal body you should consider the following: This is > a HIGH current circuit, the starter motor. > A couple of half-hearted squeezes with Radio Shack crimpers just won't do the > job. So, cut off however much insolation is required for a flush fit in the > terminal, lay it on an anvil and smack it right hard, evenly, lovingly, etc, > with a hammer then apply plenty of solder. > If you don't have an iron of sufficient wattage, use a propane torch. Flow > the solder. FLOW. It'll be nice and shiny when it cools. Apply red tape on > the "positive" cable to keep the electrons from getting mixed up. Same process, > different color for the ground cable. And one other caution.....take a look > at the terminal.....satisfy yourself that the metal tang with the bolt hole is > sufficiently beefy to carry as much current as the starter demands. Welding > supply stores have the heavy copper terminals that exactly fit #4 (or whatever > size) welding cable, and these terminals generally are available in several > bolt-hole sizes. > Check cable prices there, too. > 77 degrees in NE Texas. > Zed Smith/R912/701/91% do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:56 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals per AeroElectric Connection --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" The AeroElectric Connection describes a neat way of making "flag terminals" (named for their shape) for those big wires. First cut about a 1" section of 1/2" or 3/4" soft copper tubing, then choose a drill bit the size of the stripped wire. Put the shank of the drill bit inside the tubing and mash the unoccupied part of the tubing flat in a vise. Next remove the drill bit, and drill a hole through the flat part to fit over the diameter of the terminal, being careful to secure the piece because copper likes to snag and spin on your drill bit. Then put the stripped part of the wire in the flag terminal and, using a large iron or a propane torch, solder the terminal to the wire. It helps to have previously drilled a couple .040 holes on both sides of the barrel part of the terminal so you can flow solder into the middle of the joint. Because the wire is large, he says, you can get adequate vibration protection by supporting the wire against structure close to the terminal. If you do have those monster crimpers, though, see the article on using big terminals at http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/big_term.pdf Bob Miller ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:14 AM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Wing support --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com Help would be appreciated from some of you more experienced builders. I am about ready to close up the first completed wing. Looking at the expanse of .016 aluminum in the big space between the ribs it seems awfully flexible. Are most people reinforcing these areas, or leaving them as they are? And if adding support, are you doing so on the the bottom skin, top skin, or both? I was thinking of 'L" angle span-wise so there is no need to match the curve of the wing. Does this make sense? apologies if this has all be discussed before. and thanks. Jim Greenough 701 in Portland, OR ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:13 AM PST US From: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing support --> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com No, none, no. Zed Smith 701/R912/91.77% do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:04 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Delete and don't worry. I get similar phony messages from the administrator of my domain all the time and I am the administrator!! Cy Galley - Webmaster www.qcbc.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" > > Hello Leo > > I may be getting a trojan from the list. I have gotten the following message a couple of times. Your name was hidden in the message source. Does your IP address match the one below? I copied this directly form the message source window. If you don't know how to do this in Outlook Express just right click any message; and go down to "properties"; and select "details". > > > Delivered-To: kbonds@worldshare.net > >Received: from computer ( [207.144.214.185]) > >by visp5.pacificnet.net (smtpd 0.4) with SMTP id 1080259967.23837 > >env-from (leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net) ; Thu Mar 25 16:12:46 2004 -0800 (PST) > >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:00:10 -0500 > >To: kbonds@worldshare.net > >Subject: Important notify about your e-mail account. > >From: support@worldshare.net > >Message-ID: > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid > > >Hello user of Worldshare.net e-mail server, > > >Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail content) > >outgoing from your e-mail account. Probably, you have been infected by > >a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer safe, > >follow the instructions. > > > >Further details can be obtained from attached file. > > > >Attached file is protected with the password for security reasons. Password is >27. > > > >Sincerely, > > The Worldshare.net team http://www.worldshare.net > > >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid > > You can see your name in the env-from line. I'm fairley sure this is not legit. I have emailed support to find out. But I don't believe the IP address above is inside my (the Worldshare) network. I of course did not open the attached file so I am not infected. This could have nothing to do with you. If the IP address does not match yours then it is probably not from you unless someone has figured out how to spoof that too! Anyway let me know if this looks fishey to you. Maybe we can figure it out. > > Kevin Bonds > Nashville Tn > 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:30 AM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" Cy and all Does Leo's name in the env-from line under properties (not the message from line) mean it could be coming from him? Not that I'm trying to point fingers. I just thought if we could figure it out, it might save some spamming from happening. I'm really just trying to learn about this stuff so I can notify people that they are infected. I would want someone to notify me if my machine was spamming. Leo: As all the youngsters say "I aint mad at cha" Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete; Working on Forming blocks. 97.1% to go ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > Delete and don't worry. > > I get similar phony messages from the administrator of my domain all the > time and I am the administrator!! > > > Cy Galley - Webmaster www.qcbc.org > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin W Bonds" > To: ; > Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" > > > > Hello Leo > > > > I may be getting a trojan from the list. I have gotten the following > message a couple of times. Your name was hidden in the message source. Does > your IP address match the one below? I copied this directly form the message > source window. If you don't know how to do this in Outlook Express just > right click any message; and go down to "properties"; and select "details". > > > > > Delivered-To: kbonds@worldshare.net > > >Received: from computer ( [207.144.214.185]) > > >by visp5.pacificnet.net (smtpd 0.4) with SMTP id 1080259967.23837 > > >env-from (leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net) ; Thu Mar 25 16:12:46 2004 -0800 > (PST) > > >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:00:10 -0500 > > >To: kbonds@worldshare.net > > >Subject: Important notify about your e-mail account. > > >From: support@worldshare.net > > >Message-ID: > > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > > >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid > > > > >Hello user of Worldshare.net e-mail server, > > > > >Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail content) > > >outgoing from your e-mail account. Probably, you have been infected by > > >a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer safe, > > >follow the instructions. > > > > > >Further details can be obtained from attached file. > > > > > >Attached file is protected with the password for security reasons. > Password is >27. > > > > > >Sincerely, > > > The Worldshare.net team http://www.worldshare.net > > > > >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid > > > > You can see your name in the env-from line. I'm fairley sure this is not > legit. I have emailed support to find out. But I don't believe the IP > address above is inside my (the Worldshare) network. I of course did not > open the attached file so I am not infected. This could have nothing to do > with you. If the IP address does not match yours then it is probably not > from you unless someone has figured out how to spoof that too! Anyway let me > know if this looks fishey to you. Maybe we can figure it out. > > > > Kevin Bonds > > Nashville Tn > > 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:03 AM PST US From: "88tierra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" The particular messages you are discussing are the result of a feud between some "script kiddies" trying to out do each other. When they infect a machine they scan documents on that machine looking for e-mail addresses and then silently send out copies of themselves spoofing the return address. Your effort to evaluate the IP address is much more than most people would do to find the origin but probably not worth the effort. You are tilting at windmills here. Our corporate network serves about 800 internal mailboxes. During the height of this feud our server was receiving nearly 200 infected messages per hour and nearly all of them from address that were known to someone somewhere in the company even though none of the owners of those addresses actually sent them. The issue has become so much of a problem for us that we now run automated anti-virus "DAT" updates _hourly_ on every computer on the network. Practice safe computing. L. Kilburg 601XL Wanna Builder. Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin W Bonds Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" --> Cy and all Does Leo's name in the env-from line under properties (not the message from line) mean it could be coming from him? Not that I'm trying to point fingers. I just thought if we could figure it out, it might save some spamming from happening. I'm really just trying to learn about this stuff so I can notify people that they are infected. I would want someone to notify me if my machine was spamming. Leo: As all the youngsters say "I aint mad at cha" Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete; Working on Forming blocks. 97.1% to g ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:12 AM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Battery cable terminals --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Thanks to everyone who responded to my inquiry on attaching battery cable terminals. George Swinford Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:16 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Probably not. Leo's address is on someone computer that is sending out these "spoofs." Unfortunately, many times you can not tell even the ISP of the sending computer. Just delete! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" > > Cy and all > > Does Leo's name in the env-from line under properties (not the message from > line) mean it could be coming from him? Not that I'm trying to point > fingers. I just thought if we could figure it out, it might save some > spamming from happening. I'm really just trying to learn about this stuff so > I can notify people that they are infected. I would want someone to notify > me if my machine was spamming. > > Leo: As all the youngsters say "I aint mad at cha" > > Kevin Bonds > Nashville Tn > 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete; Working on Forming blocks. 97.1% to go > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cy Galley" > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > > > Delete and don't worry. > > > > I get similar phony messages from the administrator of my domain all the > > time and I am the administrator!! > > > > > > Cy Galley - Webmaster www.qcbc.org > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kevin W Bonds" > > To: ; > > Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list > > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" > > > > > > > Hello Leo > > > > > > I may be getting a trojan from the list. I have gotten the following > > message a couple of times. Your name was hidden in the message source. > Does > > your IP address match the one below? I copied this directly form the > message > > source window. If you don't know how to do this in Outlook Express just > > right click any message; and go down to "properties"; and select > "details". > > > > > > > Delivered-To: kbonds@worldshare.net > > > >Received: from computer ( [207.144.214.185]) > > > >by visp5.pacificnet.net (smtpd 0.4) with SMTP id 1080259967.23837 > > > >env-from (leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net) ; Thu Mar 25 16:12:46 2004 -0800 > > (PST) > > > >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:00:10 -0500 > > > >To: kbonds@worldshare.net > > > >Subject: Important notify about your e-mail account. > > > >From: support@worldshare.net > > > >Message-ID: > > > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > > > > >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid > > > > > > >Hello user of Worldshare.net e-mail server, > > > > > > >Some of our clients complained about the spam (negative e-mail > content) > > > >outgoing from your e-mail account. Probably, you have been infected > by > > > >a proxy-relay trojan server. In order to keep your computer safe, > > > >follow the instructions. > > > > > > > >Further details can be obtained from attached file. > > > > > > > >Attached file is protected with the password for security reasons. > > Password is >27. > > > > > > > >Sincerely, > > > > The Worldshare.net team http://www.worldshare.net > > > > > > >----------mnnvluajvbiadarkadid > > > > > > You can see your name in the env-from line. I'm fairley sure this is not > > legit. I have emailed support to find out. But I don't believe the IP > > address above is inside my (the Worldshare) network. I of course did not > > open the attached file so I am not infected. This could have nothing to do > > with you. If the IP address does not match yours then it is probably not > > from you unless someone has figured out how to spoof that too! Anyway let > me > > know if this looks fishey to you. Maybe we can figure it out. > > > > > > Kevin Bonds > > > Nashville Tn > > > 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:02 AM PST US From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing support --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hello Jim. I used the "L" support between the ribs, span-wise like you suggested. I used two "L's" between each rib, and in line with the tank rear bracket, and then one between the rear channel and the rear tank braket. BTW, I am using the small old wing tanks, approx 20 liters. Regards, Johann G. Iceland. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > Help would be appreciated from some of you more experienced builders. I am > about ready to close up the first completed wing. Looking at the expanse of > > .016 aluminum in the big space between the ribs it seems awfully flexible. > Are > most people reinforcing these areas, or leaving them as they are? And if > adding support, are you doing so on the the bottom skin, top skin, or both? > I > was thinking of 'L" angle span-wise so there is no need to match the curve of > > the wing. Does this make sense? > > apologies if this has all be discussed before. > > and thanks. > > Jim Greenough > 701 in Portland, OR > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:46 AM PST US From: "Rich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing support --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rich" I saw someone do this on his 801 & I will do the same to the lower skin. I have a place or two that is not as tight as the other rib spans, especially where I mounted a heated Cessna pitot tube & the weight & drag of it can cause extra vibration in that area & riveting in an extra 'L' will do the trick. I will match the curve from front to back. Rich 801 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: Wing support > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > Help would be appreciated from some of you more experienced builders. I am > about ready to close up the first completed wing. Looking at the expanse of > .016 aluminum in the big space between the ribs it seems awfully flexible. Are > most people reinforcing these areas, or leaving them as they are? And if > adding support, are you doing so on the the bottom skin, top skin, or both? I > was thinking of 'L" angle span-wise so there is no need to match the curve of > the wing. Does this make sense? > > apologies if this has all be discussed before. > > and thanks. > > Jim Greenough > 701 in Portland, OR > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:24 AM PST US From: "Gordon Duke" Subject: Zenith-List: Test message, please ignore --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" Please ignore this message. Test. == Gordon Duke 701 rudder ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:29 AM PST US From: "Gordon Duke" Subject: Zenith-List: What is a Savannah? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" If you want to see more pictures of the Savannah, go to the Zenithair website and look under illegal copies of the Zenithair STOL CH-701. http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo-copies.html == Gordon Duke St. Paul, MN USA 701 rudder ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What is a Savannah? From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 3/27/04 11:13 AM, "Gordon Duke" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" > > If you want to see more pictures of the Savannah, go to > the Zenithair website and look under illegal copies of the > Zenithair STOL CH-701. > FWIW: No place on this page indicates 'illegal'... Best regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:36 PM PST US From: "Gordon Duke" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: What is a Savannah? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" Mr. Montagne must be a lawyer. Technically correct. How about "not authorized by designer Chris Heintz"? == Gordon Duke St. Paul, MN USA authorized 701 rudder --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 3/27/04 11:13 AM, "Gordon Duke" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" > > If you want to see more pictures of the Savannah, go to > the Zenithair website and look under illegal copies of the > Zenithair STOL CH-701. > FWIW: No place on this page indicates 'illegal'... Best regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA == Gordon Duke St. Paul, MN USA 701 rudder ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:08 PM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" My daughter is my computer gruru. I'll have her check this mess out next wedensday if she can get here. Leo do not archive> ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:55 PM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Zenith-List: Battery terminals. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" I got my wire and terminals from B&C. I crimped them with the chapter owned Nicropress long handled squeezer and the soldered the open end by the tab. Leo Corbalis> ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing support From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 3/27/04 9:38 AM, Tebenkof@aol.com at Tebenkof@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > Help would be appreciated from some of you more experienced builders. I am > about ready to close up the first completed wing. Looking at the expanse of > .016 aluminum in the big space between the ribs it seems awfully flexible. > Are > most people reinforcing these areas, or leaving them as they are? And if > adding support, are you doing so on the the bottom skin, top skin, or both? I > was thinking of 'L" angle span-wise so there is no need to match the curve of > the wing. Does this make sense? > > apologies if this has all be discussed before. > If you are adding things to the wing that weren't in the original design (landing lights, fuel tanks, missile launch rails, etc) then adding extra support structure might make sense. Otherwise you are just adding unnecessary weight and complexity. If those reinforcements were necessary I'm sure Chris would have included them in the plans. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Nearly done. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:05 PM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: tiger moth --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" The tiger moth is tandem. You should look at a spitfire cockpit. They have a center stick with a large ring , bigger than a bagel and maybe a little thinner! Leo Corbalis don not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "alex trent" Subject: Zenith-List: tiger moth > --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > > Any tiger moth that I have seen was tandem. > alex t. > > >On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Robert Schoenberger wrote: > > > > > > > >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > >> > >>List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick > >>setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in > >>England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. In my > >> > >> > > > >Ah, er, I'm no tiger moth expert, but I thought they had tandem seating. > > > >Pictures at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Cockpits/TigerMoth.htm and > >http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/tigermothflightbg_1.htm seem show this. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: What is a Savannah? From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 3/27/04 1:13 PM, "Gordon Duke" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" > > Mr. Montagne must be a lawyer. Technically correct. How about > "not authorized by designer Chris Heintz"? > Don't get me wrong - I don't support plagiarism, theft of knowledge or out right theft. Heck, I don't even accept copies of software from people - EVER! I only point out that I looked for the 'illegal' term so that I could click on it and could not find it on the page in the hope that if the term did exist (as indicated) the originator could offer a correction. If you read into that what you apparently did then so be it... Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:10 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: Zenith-List: Santa Maria CA Fly-in (April 30-May 2) --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Hello everyone! With Matt Dralle's blessing (thank you, Matt!), I'm pleased to post this announcement for a terrific aviation fly-in weekend. SMXgig (in Santa Maria, CA) has become the year's largest face-to-face get-together of electronically networked aviators. We hope you'll plan to attend because we expect this year's gig to be the best ever. People come from all over the country (and sometimes overseas) to attend, and most of the sessions qualify for FAA Wings cards. The dates are 4/30-5/2/04 (Friday-Sunday) - it's a lot of fun, and a great chance for pilots from all over to mingle and share aviation stories, ideas, etc. The announcement below contains most of the crucial information, and you can get the rest from the website (www.smxgig.org). If you have any questions at all, just let me know, and thanks! ~~Cory Emberson KHWD >>> NOTICE TO AIRMEN! <<< Announcing the Sixteenth Annual SMXgig to be held on April 30 - May 2, 2004 at the Radisson on the Santa Maria (CA) Airport (aka SMX) www.smxgig.org SMXgig will be April 30 - May 2, 2004, at the Santa Maria Radisson. This year, our featured speaker after Friday night's dinner will be Rod Machado! "MACH 2 WITH MACHADO" is the byline Rod Machado has earned for his rapid fire delivery at his lively safety seminars and keynote speeches. His programs are information-packed, energetic, and humorous. He has spoken in all fifty of the United States and in Europe sharing his fresh approach to aviation education. If you can make it, please do. It's going to be pretty special. More information and the announcement/ registration info is available at www.smxgig.org You may also contact me by email at: cory@smxgig.org. All technical sessions will be held in the Enterprise Ballroom at the SMX Radisson. Each session will last about an hour. We schedule four tech sessions on Saturday morning, and four on Sunday morning. Most of the speakers are set (I'm still firming up a couple of slots - I'm working on a session about Experimentals): MIKE BUSCH - The Art and Science of Troubleshooting Your A frequently, that person is you. That's particularly true of problems that occur only in-flight and/or are intermittent. This session offers methodology for troubleshooting aimed at aircraft owners who aren't A&Ps. ED WILLIAMS - GPS - How It Works, and How to Work It Ed is a nuclear physicist working at Lawrence Livermore Labs. Ed does a remarkable job of making physics phun! BRENT BLUE, M.D. - Pilot Medicals: How to Avoid Problems with the FAA Brent is an AME Advocate, who specializes in helping the tough cases renew their medicals. He's a former member of EAA's medical advisory committee. DOUG RITTER - Equipping Yourself To Survive - Personal Survival Gear for Pilots Doug is a survival evangelist, personally driven to help pilots live through whatever comes next. www.equipped.org PAUL MILLNER - The Future of Avgas Paul works with ChevronTexaco, and is right in the middle of the industry developments regarding our fuel of choice. MARY DUFFY & UWE LEMKE - Flying in Europe Mary and Uwe are a Scot and a German who live in the San Francisco Bay Area, but return "home" often. As always, each qualifying session will get you a WINGS Safety Session card. Our Saturday evening event should be a delicious one! At 5:45 p.m., the BFUB (Big Fat Ugly Bus) will arrive at the Santa Maria Radisson to bring us to the Far Western Tavern for dinner in beautiful Guadalupe (www.farwesterntavern.com). DOLLARS AND CENTS Just as in previous years, there will be one flat all-encompassing "gig" fee that covers all events that involve significant out-of-pocket costs for the organizers. The fee is $160 per person, and will cover: - Friday afternoon welcome party - Friday evening dinner banquet - Saturday and Sunday tech sessions - Saturday afternoon lunch - Saturday evening dinner at the Far Western Tavern in Guadalupe - Meeting rooms and coffee service at the Santa Maria Radisson - Transportation to (and from) the Far Western Tavern Lodging at the SMX Radisson will cost $89.00/night for either a single or double room, which is far below the regular hotel room rate. Be sure you check in as a SMXgig attendee and get the special rate. We have our definitive preference listed with the hotel for rampside rooms - early registration can only help, but of course, the rampside rooms are subject to availability depending on how many existing guests are in those rooms. You do not need to register with the hotel - just give me your preferences, and I will take care of the reservations. Important: This year, our final rooming lists are due to the hotel on April 11, 2004 (the even of Sun 'n Fun), which will guarantee space and the group rate. The hotel will accept additional room reservations after that, on a space- and rate-available basis. They will try their best to accommodate us after that date, but the hotel is already sold out for the weekend. The website (www.smxgig.org) has detailed information about the schedule, meals, hotel accommodations, and online registration. If you'd like your own announcement/registration emailed to you, or have any other questions, just let me know. (cory@smxgig.org or bootless@earthlink.net ). Thanks, and see you there! best, Cory Emberson ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:01 PM PST US From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: ZAK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Might seem like a dumb question but who or what is ZAK ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:46 PM PST US From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing support --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hi Brian, Jim and members. The added "L" in my wings are not for increasing structural strength to the wings, but only to reduce the drumming in the skin. The extra material is lighter than the standard wing tanks in todays kits. Regards, Johann G. Iceland. Zenith 701. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin > > on 3/27/04 9:38 AM, Tebenkof@aol.com at Tebenkof@aol.com wrote: > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > > > Help would be appreciated from some of you more experienced builders. I > am > > about ready to close up the first completed wing. Looking at the expanse > of > > .016 aluminum in the big space between the ribs it seems awfully flexible. > > Are > > most people reinforcing these areas, or leaving them as they are? And if > > adding support, are you doing so on the the bottom skin, top skin, or both? > I > > was thinking of 'L" angle span-wise so there is no need to match the curve > of > > the wing. Does this make sense? > > > > apologies if this has all be discussed before. > > > > If you are adding things to the wing that weren't in the original design > (landing lights, fuel tanks, missile launch rails, etc) then adding extra > support structure might make sense. Otherwise you are just adding > unnecessary weight and complexity. If those reinforcements were necessary > I'm sure Chris would have included them in the plans. > > > -- > Bryan Martin > N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. > Airframe construction complete. > Panel and engine installed. > Nearly done. > do not archive. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:49 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: ZAK Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:28:30 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" The correct spelling is "ZAC" Zenith Aircraft Company RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave & Darlene To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: RE: ZAK --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Might seem like a dumb question but who or what is ZAK ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:58 PM PST US From: Tebenkof@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Wing stiffener -not support --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com I appreciate all the people responding to my Q about the wings. I obviously used the wrong words asking the question. As Johann indicated there is a big difference between structural change to the wings and stopping the oil canning type movement of the skin. Such stiffening of the the skin, not structural redesign, was what I meant to ask about. I hope this clearer. thanks to those who responded. Jim Greenough 701 in Portland ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:13 PM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: tiger moth --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" It's the Hornet Moth I was referring to and it's side by side. Ron D Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "alex trent" Subject: Zenith-List: tiger moth > --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > > Any tiger moth that I have seen was tandem. > alex t. > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing stiffener -not support From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 3/27/04 4:38 PM, "Tebenkof@aol.com" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > I appreciate all the people responding to my Q about the wings. I obviously > used the wrong words asking the question. As Johann indicated there is a big > difference between structural change to the wings and stopping the oil > canning type movement of the skin. Such stiffening of the the skin, not > structural > redesign, was what I meant to ask about. I hope this clearer. > > thanks to those who responded. > > Jim Greenough > 701 in Portland > If I read you right, what you're talking about is called a "False Rib". I'm considering opening up the ends of my 601XL wings to add a false rib because of oil canning I can see occurring with thermal variation. I know it has been discussed on the list before and implemented by some builders... DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:45 PM PST US From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. dave ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:11 PM PST US From: "Kevin W Bonds" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith: off list --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" L. Kilburg wrote: >Your effort to evaluate the IP address is much more than most people would > do to find the origin but probably not worth the effort. You are tilting at > windmills here. Hello L. Kilburg Seems like it would be hard for a Virus to hide the last address that the email came from. I know we would never be able to trace it back any further or anything but, isn't there a way to find out where they are coming from? Not that big a deal but it is annoying. BTW get started building! Its cool man. Everybody is doing it. It can't hurt you! C'mon you know you want to. Kevin Bonds Nashville Tn 601XL plansbuilder; rudder complete;97.3% to go! > >