---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/28/04: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:31 AM - Re: Primer (Cy Galley) 2. 04:02 AM - Hog throttle (Philip A. C.) 3. 04:51 AM - Re: Primer (Ron DeWees) 4. 04:58 AM - center stick (alex trent) 5. 05:24 AM - Re: Primer (Roger Roy) 6. 05:41 AM - Re: center stick (Ron DeWees) 7. 06:10 AM - Re: Primer (Larry Martin) 8. 06:35 AM - AvMap (Larry Martin) 9. 06:47 AM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Johann) 10. 06:47 AM - Re: Primer (Jim Kepford) 11. 06:51 AM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Jim Kepford) 12. 07:09 AM - Re: AvMap (Bill Howerton) 13. 08:04 AM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Robert Schoenberger) 14. 08:10 AM - Re: Primer (Cy Galley) 15. 08:37 AM - Aileron Trim, pro or con (Richard Vetterli) 16. 09:31 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (Clive Richards) 17. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed (Clive Richards) 18. 10:30 AM - Re: Primer (Jeff Paden) 19. 10:58 AM - Re: Wing support (Jon Croke) 20. 11:53 AM - cockpit fam (john butterfield) 21. 12:42 PM - Re: Primer (Roger Roy) 22. 01:35 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Thomas F Marson) 23. 02:16 PM - 701 flap control mount (Flydog1966@aol.com) 24. 02:39 PM - Re: cockpit fam (Rick) 25. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: Savannah vs CH701 () 26. 03:16 PM - Primer-primer-PRIMER (mike honer) 27. 03:24 PM - Re: Savannah vs. CH701 (Gordon Duke) 28. 04:12 PM - Re: Primer-primer-PRIMER (Cy Galley) 29. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Savannah vs. CH701 (Boss) 30. 04:24 PM - Re: Aileron Trim, pro or con (Dave Austin) 31. 05:21 PM - Re: Hog throttle (Brett Ray) 32. 05:27 PM - Re: Aileron Trim, pro or con (Brett Ray) 33. 05:28 PM - Re: Primer-primer-PRIMER (Roger Roy) 34. 06:11 PM - Re: Aileron Trim, pro or con (Al Young) 35. 06:16 PM - Rivet gun (Dave & Darlene) 36. 07:09 PM - Re: Rivet gun (Ray Montagne) 37. 08:35 PM - Re: cockpit fam (Jack Russell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:07 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" In a word NO! You need a self-etching primer designed for aluminum. Dupont has a good one but you are looking for aluminum primer not steel. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > dave > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:17 AM PST US From: "Philip A. C." Subject: Zenith-List: Hog throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip A. C." Brett, That's a good idea if I know one! A bike's twist throttle sure works for any type of control feel you may imagine, on all sorts of bikes, in the dust, in the rain, in fast-and-brutal races, in precise-and-slow trial contests, in beat-the-crap-out-of-the-bugger motocross... Gonna give it a try, if I need to work out a couple of things (cable routing, size, or other details) I'll give you a shout. Thanks Philip ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:49 AM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" I found a good self-etching spray primer at a NAPA auto store. I think it's made by Martin Senoir but branded as NAPA. It's about $7 or $8 and seems to work very well. Ron D. do not arechive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > In a word NO! You need a self-etching primer designed for aluminum. Dupont > has a good one but you are looking for aluminum primer not steel. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave & Darlene" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > > > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will > automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > > dave > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:38 AM PST US From: alex trent Subject: Zenith-List: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent Not only is it a center stick it is a single seat. alex t. Time: 01:47:05 PM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: tiger moth --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" The tiger moth is tandem. You should look at a spitfire cockpit. They have a center stick with a large ring , bigger than a bagel and maybe a little thinner! Leo Corbalis don not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "alex trent" Subject: Zenith-List: tiger moth >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent >> >> Any tiger moth that I have seen was tandem. >> alex t. >> > > >>> >On Fri, 26 Mar 2004, Robert Schoenberger wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >> >> >>>> >>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" >>> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >>List . . . isn't the venerable Tiger Moth from England a center stick >>>> >>setup? A lot of these are still flying. Perhaps Chris's design work in >>>> >>England is a connection as to why our planes have center sticks. In my >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >>> >>> > >>> >Ah, er, I'm no tiger moth expert, but I thought they had tandem seating. >>> > >>> >Pictures at http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Cockpits/TigerMoth.htm and >>> >http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/tigermothflightbg_1.htm seem show >> >> this. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> >> >> >> > > do not archive. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:40 AM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:24:24 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Cy, I bought a Grumman American AA1B back in 1997 and stripped the old paint and under that top coat was Red Oxide Primer, the entire aircraft was primed that way, talking to other savvy Grumman owners, they all claim that is what was used on them in my case 1975. The top coat was removed easily but the Red Primer took 2 and at times 3 applications of stripper for its removal. Do you think the aluminum was acid etched prior to priming? if you don't agree than your statement is not accurate. Is there anything you'd like to add on this topic I for one would be interested on what you have to say as well as others on the list. Always willing to learn. Cheers RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:31 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" In a word NO! You need a self-etching primer designed for aluminum. Dupont has a good one but you are looking for aluminum primer not steel. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Darlene" To: Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > dave > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:19 AM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" Alex and others-- Maybe I can put this thread to bed. No it's not a Tiger Moth I said was Y stick but a Hornet Moth. look at http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/aircraft/HornetMoth.htm. It was sometimes used as an RAF recon aircraft and was TWO place. It's not too obscure as almost 2000 were made. Better still read about it in Ken Follet's book: Hornet Flight. He gives an acknowledgement to a historian who gave him a ride and info about the plane which is the centerpiece of the book. Ron D do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "alex trent" Subject: Zenith-List: center stick > --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > > Not only is it a center stick it is a single seat. alex t. Time: > 01:47:05 PM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: tiger moth --> Zenith-List message posted by: > "Leo J. Corbalis" The tiger moth is tandem. > You should look at a spitfire cockpit. They have a center stick with a > large ring , bigger than a bagel and maybe a little thinner! Leo > Corbalis don not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "alex trent" > Subject: Zenith-List: tiger moth > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: alex trent > >> > >> Any tiger moth that I have seen was tandem. > >> alex t. > >> ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:06 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Use a Zinc Chromate Primer. You can get it at Aircraft Spruce. It's not very expensive. You will also need a wash for cleaning and etching the metal. They got it too. Don't take a shortcut here, use the right products for aircraft aluminum. This is your foundation, mess it up and you will regret it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > dave > > --- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:01 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Zenith-List: AvMap --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Has anyone out there own and have experience with an AVMap GPS? I just bought one and really like it. I want to know more about the flight planner and what can or can not be put on the User C-card. Their street cards are just too expensive. You get only one State for $299. I would like to be able to download street info using MS MapPoint or something like it. Take a look, www.gyrostabs.com --- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:25 AM PST US From: "Johann" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" Hello Hap. I have been looking all over the web site to find the movie you mention, but can not find it. Even though it is a Savannah, I would like to see... Regards, Johann G. Do not archive "The movie on www.icp.it surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a 701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:36 AM PST US From: Jim Kepford Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford A while back I wrote this up, it may help you: I've been lurking a while (trying to decide weather to build a 701 or a 601) but this a topic I know something about as a former auto body repairman and I also have a few thousand hours behind a paint gun in a scoreboard plant painting aluminum scoreboards. I would stick with what ever brand of paint your cousin is most familiar with most of the companies be it DuPont, PPG or SW. All of those companies have very good urethane paint products that will give a long life with little care. I used primarily PPG paints on score boards. The surface was washed with a good degreaser/cleaner and primed with a wash primer. That was allowed to flash and was top coated with paint using two coats. This is the lightest paint job you gonna get. When I paint my plane it will be primed with a trio prime and done 2 tone using a base coat clear coat system. Not quit as light but the filling properties of the trio prime will give a much nicer finish. I have a car out back in the north forty t hat I painted with a base coat clear coat (catalyzed enamel with a urethane clear top coat) 10 years ago. It has been setting in the sun ever since and it has yet to show any oxidation with no care at all. If you stick with all urethane products Flexibility will not be a problem, I have bent metal to a fairly small radius and not cracked the paint. Jim Cy Galley wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" In a word NO! You need a self-etching primer designed for aluminum. Dupont has a good one but you are looking for aluminum primer not steel. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > dave > > --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:50 AM PST US From: Jim Kepford Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford It took me a while to find it too, but it's accually on the first page you load. It's called: Nuovo sito Avio Jim Johann wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" Hello Hap. I have been looking all over the web site to find the movie you mention, but can not find it. Even though it is a Savannah, I would like to see... Regards, Johann G. Do not archive "The movie on surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a 701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive" --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:28 AM PST US From: "Bill Howerton" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AvMap --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" As a matter of fact, I'm using an AvMap II. While I haven't put it in my airplane yet (what with it not built and all) I have used it in my truck, and have driven around with it. I live in Colorado Springs, and work in Denver, and my average commute is 45 miles in which I have to climb and descend twice - once to 7352 feet and again to about 6200 feet, the GPS was accurate to within 20 feet of altitude (according to the altitude signs), and near as I could tell was dead-on accurate for location direction and speed. I'd recommend it to anybody. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Zenith-List: AvMap > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > > Has anyone out there own and have experience with an AVMap GPS? I just bought one and really like it. I want to know more about the flight planner and what can or can not be put on the User C-card. Their street cards are just too expensive. You get only one State for $299. I would like to be able to download street info using MS MapPoint or something like it. > > > Take a look, www.gyrostabs.com > > > --- > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:11 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" Johann . . . try the following: htpp://www.icp.it / Nuovo Avio / English version / Savanah (found on the left) / download short movie (about 3 min. ) A small TV screen appears. Click the middle button at the bottom. For a more impressive display, click the enlarge button in the upper left of the TV. A black screen appeared for me, but upon clicking on the black screen, the movie started. When finished and for reviewing, grab the time indicator at the bottom and drag it back to the left. Hope this helps. Let me know what you think. Hap ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johann" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" > > > Hello Hap. > > I have been looking all over the web site to find the movie you mention, but > can not find it. Even though it is a Savannah, I would like to see... > > Regards, > Johann G. > Do not archive > > > "The movie on www.icp.it surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a > 701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive" > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:18 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I was always under the impression that about the only thing that will stick to aluminum is zinc chromate. In later years, epoxies were developed that will do the same. Normal automotive red oxide will not reliably stick to aluminum. My guess is that Grumman used a two-part primer with red oxide as the pigment. In any case they were in a controlled environment which most homebuilders can't replicate. Cleaning of the aluminum is very important as skin oil from your hands will cause paint to peal. I would still look for a primer designed for aluminum. You don't want to have to do the job over. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > Cy, I bought a Grumman American AA1B back in 1997 and stripped the old paint and under that top coat was Red Oxide Primer, the entire aircraft was primed that way, talking to other savvy Grumman owners, they all claim that is what was used on them in my case 1975. The top coat was removed easily but the Red Primer took 2 and at times 3 applications of stripper for its removal. Do you think the aluminum was acid etched prior to priming? if you don't agree than your statement is not accurate. Is there anything you'd like to add on this topic I for one would be interested on what you have to say as well as others on the list. Always willing to learn. Cheers > RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cy Galley > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:31 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > In a word NO! You need a self-etching primer designed for aluminum. Dupont > has a good one but you are looking for aluminum primer not steel. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave & Darlene" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > > > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will > automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > > dave > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:40 AM PST US From: Richard Vetterli Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim, pro or con --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli Any arguments, pro or con, about the electric aileron trim option for the 601XL? All of my flying time has been in Skyhawks with no aileron trim, but does the 601 need it? Is it only for autopilot? Any suggestions before I place my wing order. Sorry if this has been covered recently, but I'm new to the list and did't find much about this in the archives. Rich Vetterli __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:21 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > >In Uk most planes are flown from Left seat. As I understand this is because standard circuits are Left Hand > although mainly due to noise abatement or other restrictions this is becoming less so. eg At Sleap where I fly from 36 & 05 are Right Hand when RAF Shawbury is operating else we use Left Hand. Rays Lasniers 601HD is being built with instruments & throttle on the left & with Y centre stick. Regards Clive Richards Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:04 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Clive Richards" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Gower" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: dual stick option/ Left handed > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower > >In Uk most planes are flown from Left seat. As I understand this is because standard circuits are Left Hand > although mainly due to noise abatement or other restrictions this is becoming less so. eg At Sleap where I fly from 36 & 05 are Right Hand when RAF Shawbury is operating else we use Left Hand. Rays Lasniers 601HD is being built with instruments & throttle on the left & with Y centre stick. Regards Clive Richards Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:21 AM PST US From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" There are many primers out there that will work just fine on aluminum. ANY self etching primer seems to do a nice job. I have tested a few of them and all I do to prep the aluminum is to wash it down with dawn dish soap and a scotch pad. There really is no reason to use all the harsh chemicals when you can get just a good of a result with out them. My paint job is now 10 years old and still looks like new! Jeff Paden -------Original Message------- From: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I was always under the impression that about the only thing that will stick to aluminum is zinc chromate. In later years, epoxies were developed that will do the same. Normal automotive red oxide will not reliably stick to aluminum. My guess is that Grumman used a two-part primer with red oxide as the pigment. In any case they were in a controlled environment which most homebuilders can't replicate. Cleaning of the aluminum is very important as skin oil from your hands will cause paint to peal. I would still look for a primer designed for aluminum. You don't want to have to do the job over. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > Cy, I bought a Grumman American AA1B back in 1997 and stripped the old paint and under that top coat was Red Oxide Primer, the entire aircraft was primed that way, talking to other savvy Grumman owners, they all claim that is what was used on them in my case 1975. The top coat was removed easily but the Red Primer took 2 and at times 3 applications of stripper for its removal. Do you think the aluminum was acid etched prior to priming? if you don't agree than your statement is not accurate. Is there anything you'd like to add on this topic I for one would be interested on what you have to say as well as others on the list. Always willing to learn. Cheers > RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cy Galley > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:31 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > In a word NO! You need a self-etching primer designed for aluminum. Dupont > has a good one but you are looking for aluminum primer not steel. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave & Darlene" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > > > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will > automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > > dave > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:55 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wing support --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" I placed a photo of a stiffener used in the 701 wings at www.CH701.com under builder photos. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > Help would be appreciated from some of you more experienced builders. I am > about ready to close up the first completed wing. Looking at the expanse of > 016 aluminum in the big space between the ribs it seems awfully flexible. Are > most people reinforcing these areas, or leaving them as they are? And if > adding support, are you doing so on the the bottom skin, top skin, or both? I > was thinking of 'L" angle span-wise so there is no need to match the curve of > the wing. Does this make sense? > > apologies if this has all be discussed before. > > and thanks. > > Jim Greenough > 701 in Portland, OR > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:09 AM PST US From: john butterfield Subject: Zenith-List: cockpit fam --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield Hi list I plan to build the zodiac XL using corvair power. I have never sat in one or even looked close up at a Zociac or any of the 601 models. Are there any 601's flying or near completion in the Los Angeles Area. My airport of choice is ToA, Torrance, California, but I will travel about anywhere (so.cal.)to look at /sit in a 601. If anyone is willing to give me a ground preview, i would gladly buy lunch. best regards, john butterfield Redondo Beach, CA --- Zenith-List Digest Server wrote: > * > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > > Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can be also be > found in either > of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file > includes the Digest > formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and > features Hyperlinked > Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file > includes the plain ASCII > version of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed > with a generic > text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > > HTML Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-03-26.html > > Text Version: > > > http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list/Digest.Zenith-List.2004-03-26.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > > > Zenith-List Digest > Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Fri > 03/26/04: 24 > > > > > Today's Message Index: > ---------------------- > > 1. 01:39 AM - Re: 801 crash? > (Benford2@aol.com) > 2. 03:34 AM - Sport Pilot Rule Delay > (Elwood140@aol.com) > 3. 04:57 AM - Re: center stick (Roger Roy) > 4. 08:28 AM - Savannah vs CH701 (88tierra) > 5. 10:31 AM - Re: The MYTH of dual sticks (Dan > knezacek) > 6. 11:45 AM - Zenith center stick (Robert > Schoenberger) > 7. 12:22 PM - Re: Zenith center stick (Ron > DeWees) > 8. 12:27 PM - Sun-n-Fun (Brett Ray) > 9. 12:37 PM - Re: T throttle (Brett Ray) > 10. 12:48 PM - Re: Zenith center stick (Frank > Stutzman) > 11. 01:04 PM - Re: 701 center stick and flying > from the right side (Dabusmith@aol.com) > 12. 01:10 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Roger > Roy) > 13. 02:48 PM - Battery cable terminals (George > Swinford) > 14. 02:57 PM - Re: T throttle (Wayne McIntosh) > 15. 02:58 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Robert > Schoenberger) > 16. 03:25 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Jon > Croke) > 17. 03:51 PM - Re: OAT Sensor location > (royt.or@netzero.com) > 18. 04:00 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals > (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com) > 19. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: OAT Sensor location > (Roger Roy) > 20. 04:33 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals > (Roger Roy) > 21. 04:37 PM - Battery cable terminal question > (George Swinford) > 22. 05:07 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals > (Larry McFarland) > 23. 07:09 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals (Jim > and Lucy) > 24. 08:05 PM - Re: Battery cable terminals > (Bryan Martin) > > > > ________________________________ Message 1 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 01:39:27 AM PST US > From: Benford2@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 801 crash? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com > > Here is the lonk to the mishap in California. The > NTSB usually posts a final > report in less then 1 year from the date on an > accident but this crash seems > puzzling for sure. Gary Liming and I both have > called the LAX office and tried > > to get some info but they will not release anything > to either of us. Maybe > someone else in this group have some pull with the > Feds. > > http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20030312X00321&key=1 > > Ben Haas N801BH > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 03:34:35 AM PST US > From: Elwood140@aol.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Sport Pilot Rule Delay > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com > > Is anyone surprised? > > > SPORT PILOT RULE UNEXPECTEDLY RETURNS TO FAA > The FAA has temporarily withdrawn the proposed Sport > Pilot rule from > consideration by the federal Office of Management > and Budget. Just > before a 90-day review period expired, FAA > Administrator Marion Blakey > ordered the proposal withdrawn so that the agency > could answer questions > about its economic costs and benefits. The questions > were raised during > the OMB review, essentially the final step in the > approval process for > the new Sport Pilot certificate and accompanying > Light-Sport Aircraft > category. AOPA has supported the Sport Pilot rule in > large part because > of the proposal's recognition that a driver's > license is adequate evidence > of medical fitness to fly. For more information on > the proposal, see AOPA's > regulatory brief ( > http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/regsport.html > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 > _____________________________________ > > > Time: 04:57:44 AM PST US > From: "Roger Roy" > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick > Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:57:02 -0500 > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > > I don't dispute that Larry, cost is now always a > prime factor to consider as this > sport is trying if not already there pricing itself > out of business. I'm not > familiar with Gyro throttle setup but your > proposition sounds worthwhile. I > guess the bottom line is, this is EXPERIMENTAL and > we are allowed to do exactly > that. Whatever you decide please keep us posted as > I'm certain many on the > list have an interest on that topic. Good luck. > RJ > Savannah N7802W > CH-701 Awaiting FAA Inspection > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Martin > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:33 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center stick > > > === message truncated === ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:40 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 15:39:18 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Cy, thanks for your additional commentary and you could be absolutely correct or wrong for that matter but not being a painting guru, what do I know? Guys like me depend on others such as yourself for your expertise and experience, that might be why I am such an accomplished aircraft builder/restorer, thank you Sir, Cheers RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:11 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" I was always under the impression that about the only thing that will stick to aluminum is zinc chromate. In later years, epoxies were developed that will do the same. Normal automotive red oxide will not reliably stick to aluminum. My guess is that Grumman used a two-part primer with red oxide as the pigment. In any case they were in a controlled environment which most homebuilders can't replicate. Cleaning of the aluminum is very important as skin oil from your hands will cause paint to peal. I would still look for a primer designed for aluminum. You don't want to have to do the job over. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Roy" To: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" > > Cy, I bought a Grumman American AA1B back in 1997 and stripped the old paint and under that top coat was Red Oxide Primer, the entire aircraft was primed that way, talking to other savvy Grumman owners, they all claim that is what was used on them in my case 1975. The top coat was removed easily but the Red Primer took 2 and at times 3 applications of stripper for its removal. Do you think the aluminum was acid etched prior to priming? if you don't agree than your statement is not accurate. Is there anything you'd like to add on this topic I for one would be interested on what you have to say as well as others on the list. Always willing to learn. Cheers > RJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Cy Galley > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:31 AM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" > > In a word NO! You need a self-etching primer designed for aluminum. Dupont > has a good one but you are looking for aluminum primer not steel. > > Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org > > Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave & Darlene" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Primer > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > > > > Tried to find a correct answer on matronics.com but couldn't. > > From Alberta and wondering where to get some aluminium primer. Will > automaotive primers work. I was told the red oxide is okay. > > dave > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:48 PM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" I agree with what has been said about the unethicality of copying someone elses design even though bits of that have been part of most new planes since the Wright brothers. It's just that sometimes the amount of copying in a single plane gets to be flagrant. With that said the email writer who said he bought and completed a Savannah did so in just a couple of months (sorry I dont remember his name). The after a period of flying the Savannah he built a 701 from plans and that took 24 months. I am wondering if that writer will tell us how similar the the following characteristics are: 1. Flying qualities 2. His estimate of the relative strength of the planes 3 How the material compares ie: was the metal the same specs and thicknesses 4. How did the completed empty wts. compare 5. How did the rated of climb and level flight speeds compare 6 How did the cockpit visibility compare 7 How did ground handling and runway manners compare. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I understand. But there certainly is a lot of difference in eye appeal between the two planes. Tom Marson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kepford" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford > > It took me a while to find it too, but it's accually on the first page you load. It's called: > > Nuovo sito Avio > > > Jim > > > Johann wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" > > > Hello Hap. > > I have been looking all over the web site to find the movie you mention, but > can not find it. Even though it is a Savannah, I would like to see... > > Regards, > Johann G. > Do not archive > > > "The movie on surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a > 701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive" > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:47 PM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: 701 flap control mount --> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com I'm plans/scratch building, and ready to start on the Flap Control Mount 7C3-1. The dwgs show two tubes 500 m.m. apart,center-to-center, or 519 m.m. outside edge-to- outside. The two Flap Control Bearings 7F6-3, are spaced 520 m.m. apart. Hmmm, should fit nice, and not slip back and forth, but.... the weld fillet,or bead, will increase the required spacing of the bearings, no? So can anyone tell me how to deal with this ? Is the factory mount really 500 m.m. center-to-center? Is that weld what bears against the bearing? Befuddled Phil ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:41 PM PST US From: Rick Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cockpit fam --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick john butterfield wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield > > Hi list > I plan to build the zodiac XL using corvair power. I > have never sat in one or even looked close up at a > Zociac or any of the 601 models. Are there any 601's > flying or near completion in the Los Angeles Area. > My airport of choice is ToA, Torrance, California, but > I will travel about anywhere (so.cal.)to look at /sit > in a 601. If anyone is willing to give me a ground > preview, i would gladly buy lunch. > best regards, > > john butterfield > Redondo Beach, CA N601ZR is parked on the ramp at WJF (Fox Field) in Lancaster Calif. Come on up if you'd like to sit in a 601HD. I'm still flying off the 40 hours so I won't be able to give you a ride. We're about an hour north of Los Angeles most of the time, about 2 1/2 hours during "Rush" hour traffic ;) There's a nice little restaurant there at the airport, I'll have the $100 hamburger with fries and a Pepsi. Rick Pitcher ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:57 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: I'm still looking at airplanes and the 701 looks like it would be a heck of a lot easier/quicker if CAD drawings came with the plans. Call me lazy, but I'd rather let the abrasive water jet do all the cutting and hole making. -t > > From: "Thomas F Marson" > Date: 2004/03/28 Sun PM 04:32:37 EST > To: > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:30 PM PST US From: "mike honer" Subject: Zenith-List: Primer-primer-PRIMER --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" Anyone who follows this list will realize that the typical question or comment results in the following types of reponses: 1. Well, I tried this and it seemed to work OK 2. MY GOD, NO! You will certainly die if you try that 3. I can say without contradiction that I know best, and you should believe me 4. You know, I saw the opposite of what you said, and it worked fine Amazing and useful use of bandwidth. Having said that, here is what I ended up with: Sherwin Williams Industrial Wash Primer: Green P60 G 2 (522-8804) Catalyst Reducer: R7 K 44 (530-7236) Costs a LOT $120 per gallon, but you can prime half the world with a gallon...Good buy for an EAA group, and it lasts a long time...great shelf life, certainly better than a year. Now, for those of you who want to think that Aluminum is special, a quote from the LABEL..." for untreated Aluminum, non-ferrous or ferrous metals, and galvanized steel"....WOW! Problem: it stinks! Advantage: don't need to clean the metal..It just works! I can't wait to hear replies 1 through 4. Mike Honer ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:52 PM PST US From: "Gordon Duke" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Savannah vs. CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" In a similar manner, I think that downloading free music from Napster is unethical. Having said that, does anyone know about the quality of such downloads and what music is available? == Gordon Duke St. Paul, MN USA 701 rudder --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" I agree with what has been said about the unethicality of copying someone elses design even though bits of that have been part of most new planes since the Wright brothers. It's just that sometimes the amount of copying in a single plane gets to be flagrant. With that said the email writer who said he bought and completed a Savannah did so in just a couple of months (sorry I dont remember his name). The after a period of flying the Savannah he built a 701 from plans and that took 24 months. I am wondering if that writer will tell us how similar the the following characteristics are: 1. Flying qualities 2. His estimate of the relative strength of the planes 3 How the material compares ie: was the metal the same specs and thicknesses 4. How did the completed empty wts. compare 5. How did the rated of climb and level flight speeds compare 6 How did the cockpit visibility compare 7 How did ground handling and runway manners compare. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I understand. But there certainly is a lot of difference in eye appeal between the two planes. Tom Marson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kepford" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford > > It took me a while to find it too, but it's accually on the first page you load. It's called: > > Nuovo sito Avio > > > Jim > > > Johann wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" > > > Hello Hap. > > I have been looking all over the web site to find the movie you mention, but > can not find it. Even though it is a Savannah, I would like to see... > > Regards, > Johann G. > Do not archive > > > "The movie on surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a > 701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive" > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:22 PM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer-primer-PRIMER --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Your material fits the bill and works for everything. Just don't expect all primers for steel to work on aluminum just because this one for aluminum works for steel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike honer" Subject: Zenith-List: Primer-primer-PRIMER > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" > > Anyone who follows this list will realize that the typical question or comment results in the following types of reponses: > 1. Well, I tried this and it seemed to work OK > 2. MY GOD, NO! You will certainly die if you try that > 3. I can say without contradiction that I know best, and you should believe me > 4. You know, I saw the opposite of what you said, and it worked fine > > Amazing and useful use of bandwidth. > > Having said that, here is what I ended up with: > > Sherwin Williams Industrial Wash Primer: > Green P60 G 2 (522-8804) > Catalyst Reducer: > R7 K 44 (530-7236) > > Costs a LOT $120 per gallon, but you can prime half the world with a gallon...Good buy for an EAA group, and it lasts a long time...great shelf life, certainly better than a year. > > Now, for those of you who want to think that Aluminum is special, a quote from the LABEL..." for untreated Aluminum, non-ferrous or ferrous metals, and galvanized steel"....WOW! > > Problem: it stinks! Advantage: don't need to clean the metal..It just works! > > I can't wait to hear replies 1 through 4. > > Mike Honer > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:41 PM PST US From: "Boss" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Savannah vs. CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Boss" Not only are there download from Napster but the usenet is a source for downloads. The quality is excellent but it might stretch your ethics. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Duke" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Savannah vs. CH701 > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" > > In a similar manner, I think that downloading free music from > Napster is unethical. Having said that, does anyone know about > the quality of such downloads and what music is available? > > == Gordon Duke > St. Paul, MN USA > 701 rudder > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" > > > I agree with what has been said about the unethicality of copying someone > elses design even though bits of that have been part of most new planes > since the Wright brothers. It's just that sometimes the amount of copying in > a single plane gets to be flagrant. > > With that said the email writer who said he bought and completed a Savannah > did so in just a couple of months (sorry I dont remember his name). The > after a period of flying the Savannah he built a 701 from plans and that > took 24 months. I am wondering if that writer will tell us how similar the > the following characteristics are: > > 1. Flying qualities > 2. His estimate of the relative strength of the planes > 3 How the material compares ie: was the metal the same specs and > thicknesses > 4. How did the completed empty wts. compare > 5. How did the rated of climb and level flight speeds compare > 6 How did the cockpit visibility compare > 7 How did ground handling and runway manners compare. > > Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I understand. But there certainly is a > lot of difference in eye appeal between the two planes. > > > Tom Marson > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Kepford" > To: > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Savannah vs CH701 > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim Kepford > > > > It took me a while to find it too, but it's accually on the first page you > load. It's called: > > > > Nuovo sito Avio > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > Johann wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" > > > > > > Hello Hap. > > > > I have been looking all over the web site to find the movie you mention, > but > > can not find it. Even though it is a Savannah, I would like to see... > > > > Regards, > > Johann G. > > Do not archive > > > > > > "The movie on surely gets the juices flowing even if it's not a > > 701. Hap Schoenberger 701 tail and right wing completed. Do not archive" > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:24 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim, pro or con --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" I've had the aileron trim on my 601 for 10 years and I wouldn't be without it. Apart from obvious trim needs like a passenger, there is nothing like being able to fine trim both pitch and roll so that the plane flies almost hands-off. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:33 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hog throttle --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" Ok I'll help if I can. I have a place that will custom make the cables to fit. Its nice when your on final and you need just a touch of throttle and then just as easy to back off. > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip A. C." > > Brett, > > That's a good idea if I know one! A bike's twist throttle sure works for any > type of control feel you may imagine, on all sorts of bikes, in the dust, in > the rain, in fast-and-brutal races, in precise-and-slow trial contests, in > beat-the-crap-out-of-the-bugger motocross... > > Gonna give it a try, if I need to work out a couple of things (cable > routing, size, or other details) I'll give you a shout. > > Thanks > > Philip > > > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > > > > > > -- Thanks Brett Ray owner Hog Air ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:37 PM PST US From: "Brett Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim, pro or con --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" I didn't put them on mine. And so far it flys hands off. BUT... I have yet to have a passenger it the other seat. This may change things. Someone please let me know if it changed yours. I think if you take your time setting up the wings you shouldn't need it. Brett > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli > > Any arguments, pro or con, about the electric aileron > trim option for the 601XL? All of my flying time has > been in Skyhawks with no aileron trim, but does the > 601 need it? Is it only for autopilot? Any > suggestions before I place my wing order. > Sorry if this has been covered recently, but I'm new > to the list and did't find much about this in the > archives. > Rich Vetterli > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:29 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer-primer-PRIMER Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:25:50 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Hi Mike, I know a fellow pilot that built a BD-4 and used the system that you mentioned throughout Aluminum, steel and fiberglass, Its been about 235 hrs ago since he painted it and it still looks like showroom quality. The secret to his success might be he followed the manufacture's instructions and used a total PPG system. On the other hand it may peel off at the 300hr time frame who knows? Factory paint jobs peel a couple of years Go figure. Thanks for your input Cheers. RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Cy Galley To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Primer-primer-PRIMER --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" Your material fits the bill and works for everything. Just don't expect all primers for steel to work on aluminum just because this one for aluminum works for steel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike honer" To: Subject: Zenith-List: Primer-primer-PRIMER > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" > > Anyone who follows this list will realize that the typical question or comment results in the following types of reponses: > 1. Well, I tried this and it seemed to work OK > 2. MY GOD, NO! You will certainly die if you try that > 3. I can say without contradiction that I know best, and you should believe me > 4. You know, I saw the opposite of what you said, and it worked fine > > Amazing and useful use of bandwidth. > > Having said that, here is what I ended up with: > > Sherwin Williams Industrial Wash Primer: > Green P60 G 2 (522-8804) > Catalyst Reducer: > R7 K 44 (530-7236) > > Costs a LOT $120 per gallon, but you can prime half the world with a gallon...Good buy for an EAA group, and it lasts a long time...great shelf life, certainly better than a year. > > Now, for those of you who want to think that Aluminum is special, a quote from the LABEL..." for untreated Aluminum, non-ferrous or ferrous metals, and galvanized steel"....WOW! > > Problem: it stinks! Advantage: don't need to clean the metal..It just works! > > I can't wait to hear replies 1 through 4. > > Mike Honer > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:28 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aileron Trim, pro or con --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Rich- My only comment is, for the price, it sure is easier to put it in while in the building process, rather than wishing you had later. Al Young 80% done 40% to go. 601XL ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:21 PM PST US From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Rivet gun --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Will a standard rivet gun work for riveting. I see where they talk about the dimple etc. Dave ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rivet gun From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 3/28/04 6:13 PM, "Dave & Darlene" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > Will a standard rivet gun work for riveting. I see where they talk about the > dimple etc. > Dave > A standard blind rivet gun should work _PROVIDED_ that the head is machined as specified per ZAC instructions. You may need to adjust the air pressure regulator. I find myself lowering and raising pressure depending on whether I'm using A4 or A5 rivets. I use just enough pressure to efficiently pull the blind rivet and no more in order to avoid damaging the gun. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:12 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cockpit fam --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell John: I am quite a ways from you but if you ever travel by Fresno I will be happy to show you an XL in progress. I am not quite to a good "sit in it" place in the build yet but should be by summer. do not archive. Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html