Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:23 AM - Re: Paint (Randall Stout)
2. 03:47 AM - Re: Physics of Vapour lock (Bob Miller)
3. 03:50 AM - Re: barbed hose fittings (Bob Miller)
4. 04:21 AM - Re: Paint (sportpilot)
5. 05:12 AM - Re: Fuel selectors (Cy Galley)
6. 05:46 AM - Re: Fuel selectors (Ron DeWees)
7. 06:20 AM - Re: Savannah vs. CH701 (Larry Martin)
8. 06:20 AM - Re: Aux fuel tanks (Larry Martin)
9. 06:36 AM - Re: Fuel selectors (Larry Martin)
10. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Physics of Vapour lock (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
11. 08:15 AM - Re: barbed hose fittings (Rick)
12. 08:32 AM - Re: Fuel selectors (Thomas F Marson)
13. 08:35 AM - Vacuum Pump (Andrew SanClemente)
14. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Physics of Vapour lock (Thomas F Marson)
15. 08:38 AM - Re: Aux fuel tanks (Dirk Slabbert)
16. 09:21 AM - Re: barbed hose fittings (Leo J. Corbalis)
17. 09:25 AM - Re: barbed hose fittings (Dirk Slabbert)
18. 09:34 AM - Re: Vacuum Pump (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
19. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: Physics of Vapour lock (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
20. 09:46 AM - Re: barbed hose fittings (Dave Pepper)
21. 10:02 AM - Re: Vacuum Pump (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
22. 10:07 AM - Re: Fuel selectors (Gary Gower)
23. 10:08 AM - Sport Pilot Article on Fuel selectors and Vapour Lock (Bob Miller)
24. 10:12 AM - Re: Re: Physics of Vapour lock (Bob Miller)
25. 10:17 AM - Re: barbed hose fittings ()
26. 10:26 AM - Re: Vacuum Pump (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
27. 10:29 AM - Re: Vacuum Pump ()
28. 10:44 AM - Re: Sport Pilot Article on Fuel selectors and Vapou (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
29. 10:56 AM - UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? (Grant Corriveau)
30. 11:07 AM - Great Zodiac XL for sale... (Grant Corriveau)
31. 11:10 AM - Re: HDS "Sport Pilot?" (Traveling Man)
32. 11:14 AM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes (Gordon Duke)
33. 11:14 AM - Re: Vacuum Pump (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
34. 11:16 AM - Re: barbed hose fittings (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
35. 11:53 AM - Re: Fuel Bladders (Wayne McIntosh)
36. 12:04 PM - Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? (Dan knezacek)
37. 12:04 PM - Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? (Larry McFarland)
38. 12:27 PM - Re: barbed hose fittings (Cy Galley)
39. 12:30 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
40. 12:37 PM - Re: Vacuum Pump (Andrew SanClemente)
41. 12:37 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (Dave Pepper)
42. 12:40 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (Dave Pepper)
43. 12:53 PM - Re: barbed hose fittings (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
44. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes (David & Maria Lumgair)
45. 01:03 PM - Re: Great Zodiac XL for sale... (Dan knezacek)
46. 01:07 PM - Re: Vacuum Pump (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
47. 01:10 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
48. 01:17 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (Dave Pepper)
49. 01:19 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (Dave Pepper)
50. 01:29 PM - Plastic-protection (Chris Weber)
51. 01:40 PM - Re: Vacuum Pump (Robert Schoenberger)
52. 01:46 PM - Re: Vacuum Pump (Stanley Challgren)
53. 01:50 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (George Swinford)
54. 02:09 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
55. 02:12 PM - Re: Vacuum Pump (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
56. 02:19 PM - Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Gordon Duke)
57. 02:48 PM - Re: Vacuum Pump (Ron DeWees)
58. 02:54 PM - Re: Fuel selectors (Bryan Martin)
59. 03:17 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (Dave Pepper)
60. 03:17 PM - Re: Fuel Bladders (Dave Pepper)
61. 03:40 PM - Re: Hoses & Pumps (wizard-24@juno.com)
62. 03:49 PM - Re: Hoses & Pumps (Dave Pepper)
63. 04:16 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (Dave Pepper)
64. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes (Scott Laughlin)
65. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Bladders (ALEMBIC7@aol.com)
66. 05:00 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1))
67. 05:08 PM - Re: Plastic-protection (Cy Galley)
68. 05:14 PM - Re: Hoses & Pumps (Gary Gower)
69. 05:26 PM - Re: barbed hose fittings (The Meiste's)
70. 05:27 PM - Corvair (Brandon Tucker)
71. 05:31 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (Joemotis@aol.com)
72. 05:38 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (bad luck?) (Gary Gower)
73. 05:58 PM - Re: Hoses & Pumps (wizard-24@juno.com)
74. 06:40 PM - Dead Horse (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
75. 07:01 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (Dave Pepper)
76. 07:06 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (bad luck?) (Dave Pepper)
77. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Savannah vs CH701 (Larry Martin)
78. 07:34 PM - Re: Fuel selectors (Larry Martin)
79. 07:41 PM - Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? (Thomas F Marson)
80. 08:04 PM - Re: Re: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes (Thomas F Marson)
81. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: Physics of Vapour lock (Thomas F Marson)
82. 08:08 PM - Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? (Jim and Lucy)
83. 08:17 PM - skydat (Bill Cardell)
84. 08:25 PM - Re: Plastic-protection (Thomas F Marson)
85. 08:25 PM - Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? (Thomas F Marson)
86. 08:29 PM - Re: skydat (Dave Pepper)
87. 08:38 PM - Hose clamps (Jim and Lucy)
88. 09:16 PM - Re: Re: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes (morawski@highway1.com.au)
89. 09:21 PM - Re: Hoses & Pumps (Bryan Martin)
90. 09:31 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (Bryan Martin)
91. 09:54 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (Bryan Martin)
92. 10:52 PM - Re: Fuel selectors (Thomas F Marson)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Randall Stout <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
Actually, I thinned it according to the instructions. With it being so thin, it
flows out smoother than it would otherwise. It takes several coats to get a good
finish, but it doesn't take much paint. I used 1.5 quarts to do the blue and
I figure it will take about 4 quarts to do the white.
As for ease of rolling vs. spraying, the tough part is preparation. Everything
has to be clean and taped off no matter which way you go. I just don't have to
create a paint booth, deal with breathing equipment, and overspray.
Randy Stout - San Antonio
n282rs@sbcglobal.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>>>> Rolling sounds so easy compared with setting up and
finding equipment to spray, though I know most people manage it.
In am wondering the reason you thinned the paint as much as you did.
Could you get a good finish with fewer coats with less thinning?
Jim Greenough
701 in Portland<<<<<<<
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Physics of Vapour lock |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Frank,
Thanks for bringing us back to the elementals. I have a 16 gallon header
tank only, with an electric fuel pump parallel to the mechanical pump.
Since the electric pump is below the header tank, does this mean that vapour
lock is eliminated or overcome when this pump is on?
Bob
-----
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Sure glad you were close to the field, had an EIS with a warning light, and
up on your dead-stick landings, Rick. Where exactly was the leak, and what
do you think happened? I sure hope this spurs some good discussion, cause I
have a Jabiru with rubber hoses and barbed fittings.
Bob
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "sportpilot" <sportpilot@moneypit.com>
Randy I need to come see your plane , I am from corpus chirsti..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Stout" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Paint
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Randall Stout <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Actually, I thinned it according to the instructions. With it being so
thin, it flows out smoother than it would otherwise. It takes several coats
to get a good finish, but it doesn't take much paint. I used 1.5 quarts to
do the blue and I figure it will take about 4 quarts to do the white.
>
> As for ease of rolling vs. spraying, the tough part is preparation.
Everything has to be clean and taped off no matter which way you go. I just
don't have to create a paint booth, deal with breathing equipment, and
overspray.
>
> Randy Stout - San Antonio
> n282rs@sbcglobal.net
> www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
>
>
> >>>> Rolling sounds so easy compared with setting up and
> finding equipment to spray, though I know most people manage it.
>
> In am wondering the reason you thinned the paint as much as you did.
> Could you get a good finish with fewer coats with less thinning?
>
> Jim Greenough
> 701 in Portland<<<<<<<
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
The conversation has me convinced. IF you are pumping from 2 sources and
one goes dry you will pump air. BUT if you have a pump pumping from a single
source then you are go to go until you pump it dry. If you have two tanks
and use two pumps then you are good to go. One pump, two tanks and you have
a problem.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Russell" <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
> After a lot of consideration on the fuel system and some discussion with
the eaa adviser I went for the left both right valve. Sucking air is not an
issue because you can simply switch to left or right if this happens. If you
use a left/right valve you would still suck air when one tank emptied and
would have to switch anyway. If you use ZAC's design with the shut off valve
at each tank you will still be having to shut off one of the valves on a dry
tank. Besides that, I have never ran a tank dry in any plane I have flown.
Most of the time I get fuel at 1/2 tanks.
>
>
> Jack Russell -Clovis CA
> 601 XL Jabiru 3300
> Progress update at:
> http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Mike,
I guess ZAC is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They designed a
simple and safe center stick and lots don't like that . Apparantly there
IS no design that everyone can live with. That's why it's an experimental
plane, I guess.
Just my observation,
Ron D
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> Now that I've read through about 15 gazillion posts on fuel systems for
> ZAC's planes, it only emphasizes that ZAC should get their act together
> and come up with a design that everyone can live with.
"snip"
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Savannah vs. CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I guess it doesn't really matter, because I don't remember seeing any
copyright or design patents by Zenith. So it's open season, and Zenith or
anyone else doesn't have a right to bitch. I looked at the Savannah very
hard before I bought my 701 kit. There are some significant differences,
what I call improvements. If the Savannah was manufactured in the USA I
probably would have went that way. I got on the Savannah forum and saw too
many war stories about bad parts, missing parts and having to wait 5 months
for replacements. Two things I really liked about the Savannah was the
seats and the fact it is a lot closer to 49% provided, Zenith is more like
29%. I like dealing with people close to home that speak American. I
e-mail the Savannah folks with a couple of questions and it took a few weeks
to get an answer. ZAC answers immediately. That's worth a lot to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ihab A.B. Awad" <ihab@ahc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Savannah vs. CH701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ihab A.B. Awad" <ihab@ahc.umn.edu>
>
>
> On Tuesday 30 March 2004 12:41, ALEMBIC7@aol.com wrote:
> > Just a thought re ethics...how about if you build a Savannah you buy a
set
> > of 701 plans from ZAC...that gives you the right to build one to Chris's
> > design...seems only fair...
>
> Sounds like a great idea to me....
>
> Just f-my-i, what *is* the similarity between the CH and Savannah designs?
Is
> the Savannah design a line-for-line copy of the blueprints? Certainly,
they
> must have used some CAD software to design the parts. Did they redesign
the
> whole thing from scratch while "studying" the CH plans, or did they import
> CH's CAD files or scan in his drawings?
>
> Peace,
>
> Ihab
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
---
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aux fuel tanks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I am putting in extra tanks on my PegaStol wings. I will have a total
capacity of 32 gals. Major over kill. But, I was thinking about resale
value and they are there if I need them. They would be pretty difficult to
install after the fact, so why not?
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel tanks
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> > How many are putting in auxiliary fuel tanks?
>
> I put 'em in. Not sure how often I'll actually fill them, but to me the
> relatively small extra expense while the wing was open was worth it for
> the extra range if needed.
>
> > What do you guys think are the pros and cons.
>
> Other than the small extra expense and the work installing them, I can't
> think of any other cons. The pros are longer range, and perhaps more
> redundancy if you have all four tanks to feed fuel from.
>
> > what #'s do you think I can expect from the XL Corvair.
>
> No idea yet, but I'll find out soon as I'll also install a 'Vair engine.
> I expect the performance to be as good as most any other powerplant out
> there. If that turns out to be true, then I'll rejoice at all that $$$$
> I'm saving by not using the far more expensive Rotax, Jabiru, Lycoming,
> etc. If not, I can always change later I suppose.
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
---
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
You are exactly right. Zac's stick is simple and safe. I don't have a
problem with it. I just think there is a better way. That's why we evolve.
It is in mine and many other's nature to attempt to improve things.
Sometimes we are wrong but more often than not we are correct. Someone on
this forum said to "resist change", that is totally counter to the American
way and absolutely asinine. I could understand a resistance to change just
for the sake of change, but if we had resisted change, we would still be
riding bicycles or even less. I change things because I like it better and
in my opinion it's an improvement or better way of doing what ever we do.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi Mike,
> I guess ZAC is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They designed
a
> simple and safe center stick and lots don't like that . Apparantly there
> IS no design that everyone can live with. That's why it's an experimental
> plane, I guess.
>
> Just my observation,
> Ron D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> >
> >
> > Now that I've read through about 15 gazillion posts on fuel systems for
> > ZAC's planes, it only emphasizes that ZAC should get their act together
> > and come up with a design that everyone can live with.
> "snip"
> > Mike Fortunato
> > 601XL
> >
>
>
---
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Physics of Vapour lock |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Absolutly....What you have is a "flooded suction" system which is what any
industrial pumping system attempts to achieve. The only way you would get
vapour lock is if you plugged the strainer in the tank...Highly unlikely.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Miller
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Physics of Vapour lock
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
--> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Frank,
Thanks for bringing us back to the elementals. I have a 16 gallon header
tank only, with an electric fuel pump parallel to the mechanical pump. Since
the electric pump is below the header tank, does this mean that vapour lock
is eliminated or overcome when this pump is on? Bob
-----
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
Bob Miller wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Sure glad you were close to the field, had an EIS with a warning light, and
> up on your dead-stick landings, Rick. Where exactly was the leak, and what
> do you think happened? I sure hope this spurs some good discussion, cause I
> have a Jabiru with rubber hoses and barbed fittings.
> Bob
That EIS with it's big red blinking light sure helped! I doubt that I
would have caught the sudden drop in oil pressure without the warning light.
The leak was at the barbed fitting and hose connection. When I put the
new oil cooler in I had to change one of the lines to fit the new
installation, the other line still fit nicely so I left it alone. The
one that I DIDN'T change was the one that developed the leak. I had just
changed the oil and filter, and while unscrewing the filter the adapter
started to unscrew too. I held the adapter with one hand and finished
unscrewing the filter. When I put the new filter on the adapter screwed
back in and stopped a little past the spot where it had originally been.
The lines weren't stressed, so I left it where it wanted to stay and
safetied the filter. I started the engine and let it run for about 30
seconds, then shut it off and checked for leaks... everything was dry. I
think that the jostling about of the lines allowed the old line to
change position a little, apparently enough to allow a little bit of oil
to start leaking past the barbs once the engine warmed up and the
pressure went to max. When I removed the lines I noticed that the clamp
on the leaky fitting was looser than the others, maybe due to the rubber
hose relaxing under the clamp as things settled in over the last 25
hours of flight. That's my theory at this point anyway, looking for
other's experience to see if anything else might have contributed to the
leak.
I did add another hose clamp on each connection when I changed the
hoses, a little bit of redundancy just in case one of the clamps gets
loose again.
The plane sure glided in nicely :) probably 'cause it was so slippery
with all that oil on the belly ;)
Rick
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Seems like the sum total of all this is a good short article in Sport Pilot.
Fuel starvation is a major problem with homebuilts and when the smoke
clears the answers and not too complex. But boy there are lots of "opinions"
that are not correct. Seems like lots of people "hear" someting and accept
it as fact without enough personal thought and evaluation.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> The conversation has me convinced. IF you are pumping from 2 sources and
> one goes dry you will pump air. BUT if you have a pump pumping from a
single
> source then you are go to go until you pump it dry. If you have two tanks
> and use two pumps then you are good to go. One pump, two tanks and you
have
> a problem.
>
>
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
I have searched the archives regarding vacuum systems and see that
most have either gone with an electric panel or use a venturi.
Has anyone out there used a vacuum pump and if so can you let me in
on the details of what you used?
I may still use a venturi but I would really like my gyro's spooled
up from the get-go.
Thanks
Andrew (601 HDS / Stratus EA-81)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Physics of Vapour lock |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Probably is eliminated ---- but not if you have a section of fuel line
between the header tank and the electric pump AND IF THAT LINE IS EXPOSED TO
HOT ENGINE COMPARTMENT TEMPS. Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Physics of Vapour lock
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
<drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Frank,
> Thanks for bringing us back to the elementals. I have a 16 gallon header
> tank only, with an electric fuel pump parallel to the mechanical pump.
> Since the electric pump is below the header tank, does this mean that
vapour
> lock is eliminated or overcome when this pump is on?
> Bob
> -----
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Aux fuel tanks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
Dunno Larry, them Pego Stol slats have a mind of their own as it is, now you're
loading them heavy too....
May work in cold, smooth air, but hot an thermic ? bet you'll have a hand full.
What if it goes wrong close to ground, slow, slat pulls in due to a strong thermal,
with the wing loaded, then you drop a wing ....something about this worries
me.
Dirk in Africa.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel tanks
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
I am putting in extra tanks on my PegaStol wings. I will have a total
capacity of 32 gals. Major over kill. But, I was thinking about resale
value and they are there if I need them. They would be pretty difficult to
install after the fact, so why not?
----- Original Message -----
From: <wizard-24@juno.com>
To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aux fuel tanks
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> > How many are putting in auxiliary fuel tanks?
>
> I put 'em in. Not sure how often I'll actually fill them, but to me the
> relatively small extra expense while the wing was open was worth it for
> the extra range if needed.
>
> > What do you guys think are the pros and cons.
>
> Other than the small extra expense and the work installing them, I can't
> think of any other cons. The pros are longer range, and perhaps more
> redundancy if you have all four tanks to feed fuel from.
>
> > what #'s do you think I can expect from the XL Corvair.
>
> No idea yet, but I'll find out soon as I'll also install a 'Vair engine.
> I expect the performance to be as good as most any other powerplant out
> there. If that turns out to be true, then I'll rejoice at all that $$$$
> I'm saving by not using the far more expensive Rotax, Jabiru, Lycoming,
> etc. If not, I can always change later I suppose.
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I have barbed fittings WITH hose clamps. I never ever at any time reinstall
the dented hose ends. I cut off the end or replace the whole hose. I have
had Zero leakage problems. 410 hrs. I do stick to fabric renforced rubber
hoses from the auto store. I arranged my plumbing so that replacing all the
hoses is not too awful a job which I did after 6 years.
Leo Corbalis
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" <dirkslabbert@telkomsa.net>
How about hydraulic hose type fittings? never seen them come loose, hose clamp
scares me.
Dirk.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: barbed hose fittings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
Bob Miller wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Sure glad you were close to the field, had an EIS with a warning light, and
> up on your dead-stick landings, Rick. Where exactly was the leak, and what
> do you think happened? I sure hope this spurs some good discussion, cause
I
> have a Jabiru with rubber hoses and barbed fittings.
> Bob
That EIS with it's big red blinking light sure helped! I doubt that I
would have caught the sudden drop in oil pressure without the warning light.
The leak was at the barbed fitting and hose connection. When I put the
new oil cooler in I had to change one of the lines to fit the new
installation, the other line still fit nicely so I left it alone. The
one that I DIDN'T change was the one that developed the leak. I had just
changed the oil and filter, and while unscrewing the filter the adapter
started to unscrew too. I held the adapter with one hand and finished
unscrewing the filter. When I put the new filter on the adapter screwed
back in and stopped a little past the spot where it had originally been.
The lines weren't stressed, so I left it where it wanted to stay and
safetied the filter. I started the engine and let it run for about 30
seconds, then shut it off and checked for leaks... everything was dry. I
think that the jostling about of the lines allowed the old line to
change position a little, apparently enough to allow a little bit of oil
to start leaking past the barbs once the engine warmed up and the
pressure went to max. When I removed the lines I noticed that the clamp
on the leaky fitting was looser than the others, maybe due to the rubber
hose relaxing under the clamp as things settled in over the last 25
hours of flight. That's my theory at this point anyway, looking for
other's experience to see if anything else might have contributed to the
leak.
I did add another hose clamp on each connection when I changed the
hoses, a little bit of redundancy just in case one of the clamps gets
loose again.
The plane sure glided in nicely :) probably 'cause it was so slippery
with all that oil on the belly ;)
Rick
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hmmm, You know there are much better ways to go than this...I know this 'cos
I am researching it right now for my RV.
What I can tell you is there is not a vacuum option with the Stratus nor
anyone that I know of who has sucessfully made one.
Vacuum pumps are junk anyway and Electric Gyro's cost a fourtune. The one
guy I know used a venturi did not have a very sucessful installation...and
lets face it, a venturi is big and ugly!
What you want is a Dynon EFIS....Yes, for $2000 you get a state of the art
solid state gyro based AI and DG together with a bunch of other functions
depending on what sensors you buy.
With a simple hookup to the Pitot/static system you get airspeed, altitude,
rate of climb and angle of attack but this will require an additional
sensor...Of course its highly desirable to have a ASI and altimeter as a
backup but for an all in one package its hard to beat and that's not even
mentioning the COOL factor of having this thing in your instrument panel.
It fits in a standard 3 1/8 panel hole too.
There are other EFIS systems but not for this price, many RV pilots are
installing these for their primary IFR instrument...Can't be beat really.
http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/efis-d10FAQ.html#Q1
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
SanClemente
Subject: Zenith-List: Vacuum Pump
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
--> <ansancle@townisp.com>
I have searched the archives regarding vacuum systems and see that
most have either gone with an electric panel or use a venturi.
Has anyone out there used a vacuum pump and if so can you let me in
on the details of what you used?
I may still use a venturi but I would really like my gyro's spooled
up from the get-go.
Thanks
Andrew (601 HDS / Stratus EA-81)
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Physics of Vapour lock |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I don't think this is an issue in real life, The amount of heat the line
will pickup is minimal.
If your worried about it simply use a section of firesleeve to insulate the
line, which if its flexible you would do anyway.
Frank
Probably is eliminated ---- but not if you have a section of fuel line
between the header tank and the electric pump AND IF THAT LINE IS EXPOSED TO
HOT ENGINE COMPARTMENT TEMPS. Tom
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Rotax installs their engine fuel pump with hose fittings! So I guess if
they do that then it is a safe installation. Cars have hose fittings too,
without any problems. And hose fittings seem a lot easier to connect than
the gazillions of expensive AN fittings offered. What's really interesting
is that most fluid leaks seem to occur with the AN fittings! I have rarely
heard of a hose fitting leaking or failing, especially if secured with a
hose clamp.
Dave
> How about hydraulic hose type fittings? never seen them come loose, hose
clamp scares me.
> Dirk.
>
>
>
Message 21
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
OK now you got my creative juices flowing...
Why do you want gyro instruments anyway?...Surely your not thinking of
taking this plane IFR?...Assuming this is a VFR only plane I have a MUCH
better solution to using Gyro's or the Dynon...This is unconventional so I
hope your sitting down...
I can tell you in 320 hours of flying the HDS I have NEVER felt the need for
an AI...OK maybe once flying at night over the desert with NO horizon at
all...more creepy than anything else certainly not dangerous.
The only time I could have done with a DG is flying in crontrolled airspace
when the controller gives you a new heading...a little bit of a pain with
just a compass.
So how about this?.....A single axis autopilot on the aileron's....Before
you roll your eyes let me tell you about how the fast boys just LOVE the new
Digitraks. You can get them on special for $1600 and I'm told they are good
in scary turbulence...in fact they react faster than you can.
So they will always keep your wings level...so you will never need an
AI...:)...They have a digital readout of the heading slected on the front
with a simple left and right arrow. The heading comes from its own solid
state gyro and it will self adjust to fly the assigned course.
Now the best bit...You can hook it up to your handheld GPS!...Thats
right...simply put in your "Go TO" airport, engage the autopilot and the
plane will swing round and fly you there completely hands off...It will even
compensate for out of trim!
I have been told by a user that he was flying at 90 degrees to the GPS
course, engaged the A/P and the plane swung round and settle right on course
wings perfectly level.
How ***** cool is that?
Want more?...For $1995 you can have the same autopilot with a solid state
turn coordinator built into the A/P display.....If you have ever actually
tried to use a mechanical TC you will see it never agrees with the
horizon...a solid state device always will...Now you even have a reliable
for of AI as well...:)
For IFR work I'm going to use the Dynon backed up but this A/P with the turn
coordinator.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
SanClemente
Subject: Zenith-List: Vacuum Pump
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
--> <ansancle@townisp.com>
I have searched the archives regarding vacuum systems and see that
most have either gone with an electric panel or use a venturi.
Has anyone out there used a vacuum pump and if so can you let me in
on the details of what you used?
I may still use a venturi but I would really like my gyro's spooled
up from the get-go.
Thanks
Andrew (601 HDS / Stratus EA-81)
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Hello Mike,
Well, I thought that I will not comment about this issue, I am not that
expert, I couldnt resist this one, I have built (and helped built) a
few projects.
What I find VERY important in ZAC's airplanes is that they all have
this things in common: Very simple airplane with KIS in capital
letters, very strong, very light, easy to build (even that someones of
us get lost in this simplicity:-) and low priced for its class.
...Also I forgot, maybe also not as fast (?) ;-) but very safe to fly
and land.
I am sure that the fuel system can be built like the one in any high$$
plane (certified of kits built), maybe with that high cost could be
almost perfect and practically fool proof, but even sometimes fail (we
can sadly remember TWA 800 fight, for example).
I will like to know of a failure (in a ZAC plane) when the fuel system
was built acording with ZAC plans and/or the engine manufacturer. Facts
not hangar talk. This will be very educative for me and for all of us.
I have about 2 years in the list and about 18 years of building
experience and also reading homebuilt aviation related articles and
magazines, also some years in internet.
Maybe I am not totaly right, but I cant remember reading of a engine
problem (fuel related), where the builder didnt "improved or modified"
the design...
Also the experienced builders in this list can back me up: The more
inexperienced we are in building, the more modifications we want to do
to the plans, This I something I fight everyday, with me and the
builders in my area, is dificult.
KIS Friends KIS! Remember: The most inteligent thinker is the one
that makes his invetions as simple as possible, is easy to complicate
things.
Saludos
Gary Gower.
701 912S
A few weeks away (I hope) from testing the simple ZACs fuel system in
the air :-)
--- wizard-24@juno.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> Now that I've read through about 15 gazillion posts on fuel systems
> for
> ZAC's planes, it only emphasizes that ZAC should get their act
> together
> and come up with a design that everyone can live with. Personally,
> I'm
> following their recommendations, but that includes rubber fuel lines
> to
> barbed fittings (taboo to many), pump sucking fuel (taboo to at least
> one), and a fuel selector valve and gascolators. For crying out loud
> --
> if we have to design our own airplane, why buy a kit?
>
> Hopefully what ZAC recommends, works. If not, then why is it on their
> plans? I know it's experimental aviation, but geez...
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Message 23
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot Article on Fuel selectors and Vapour Lock |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
That sounds like a great idea. Hint, hint...Frank do you copy?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> Seems like the sum total of all this is a good short article in Sport
Pilot.
>
> Fuel starvation is a major problem with homebuilts and when the smoke
> clears the answers and not too complex. But boy there are lots of
"opinions"
> that are not correct. Seems like lots of people "hear" someting and accept
> it as fact without enough personal thought and evaluation.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > The conversation has me convinced. IF you are pumping from 2 sources
and
> > one goes dry you will pump air. BUT if you have a pump pumping from a
> single
> > source then you are go to go until you pump it dry. If you have two
tanks
> > and use two pumps then you are good to go. One pump, two tanks and you
> have
> > a problem.
> >
> >
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Physics of Vapour lock |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Yep, there is a section like that, and the electric pump sucks fuel
downstream of the gascolator in the engine compartment. But where would
vapour form in this system upstream from the elec pump? And if it did form,
wouldn't it move upward to the tank?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Physics of Vapour lock
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> Probably is eliminated ---- but not if you have a section of fuel line
> between the header tank and the electric pump AND IF THAT LINE IS EXPOSED
TO
> HOT ENGINE COMPARTMENT TEMPS. Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Physics of Vapour lock
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> >
> > Frank,
> > Thanks for bringing us back to the elementals. I have a 16 gallon
header
> > tank only, with an electric fuel pump parallel to the mechanical pump.
> > Since the electric pump is below the header tank, does this mean that
> vapour
> > lock is eliminated or overcome when this pump is on?
> > Bob
> > -----
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
I don't like rubber hose! I've used aluminum tubing with Swagelok fittings for
oil, fuel, hydraulic & instrument lines. No barbs/no rubber except for 6" flex-section
at Rotax Pierberg fuel pump. No issues in 470 some hours.
GGP
Message 26
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Check here on the Auto pilot.
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ttfsdigiflightslick.html
Real world flying in an HDS tells me one of these would be very sweet
indeed.
Frank
HDS /Stratus, with Ram heads 320 hours
I have searched the archives regarding vacuum systems and see that
most have either gone with an electric panel or use a venturi.
Message 27
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
The 4-cylinder Rotax engines are designed to accept a vacuum pump driven by the
integral gearbox. Mine's worked well for 356 hours so far! Cost was about $550
+ $150. some 6 years ago.
GGP
Message 28
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| Subject: | Sport Pilot Article on Fuel selectors and Vapou |
r Lock
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Yes and some opinions are from folks who are professional engineers with 20
years of designing pumping systems. Sure there are many designs even on
certified airplanes that are questionable, I,e yes you CAN get away with
sucking AVGAS uphill but does it make sense to do it when there are better
ways?
I will read the article and correct for errors....:)...A bit like when my
Boss tells me to take a class...does he mean take it or teach it?....:)
Humbly yours!
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Miller
Subject: Zenith-List: Sport Pilot Article on Fuel selectors and Vapour Lock
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
--> <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
That sounds like a great idea. Hint, hint...Frank do you copy? Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> Seems like the sum total of all this is a good short article in Sport
Pilot.
>
> Fuel starvation is a major problem with homebuilts and when the
> smoke clears the answers and not too complex. But boy there are lots
> of
"opinions"
> that are not correct. Seems like lots of people "hear" someting and
> accept it as fact without enough personal thought and evaluation.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > The conversation has me convinced. IF you are pumping from 2
> > sources
and
> > one goes dry you will pump air. BUT if you have a pump pumping from
> > a
> single
> > source then you are go to go until you pump it dry. If you have two
tanks
> > and use two pumps then you are good to go. One pump, two tanks and
> > you
> have
> > a problem.
> >
> >
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 29
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| Subject: | UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Hi all,
Been 'lurking' the digest version for a while -- not much to say
(surprise!)...
However the imminent threat of summer has me thinking flying again. I found
and fixed the problem with my CAM100 ignition -- finally -- now if the
engine still runs, I'm in business (it was a magnet with a 'burr' that was
touching the face of the Hall Effect sensors when the gap became small due
to engine heating)...
Now I've found that my nose gear bearings (and others?) have worn very
quickly and I want to make some plastic bearings from that nice white
plastic stuff -- UHMEP..Z?..X?? You know what I'm talking about - right?
Does someone remember offhand how big and thick a slice is needed to do all
the top and lower gear strut bearings? And a good source? Or can you at
least remind me of the proper name for this stuff so I can search the
archives...?
BTW - I think my bearings may be wearing so fast because of the industrial
chrome finish on the struts -- is this possible? Does this finish have a
rougher texture against the aluminum than the original steel leg? If that's
not the reason, then I'm stumped. Tony Colucci operates from the same
field, and his bearings with the original steel legs are lasting longer than
this...
Thanks,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 30
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| Subject: | Great Zodiac XL for sale... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
I was talking to Art Mitchell recently (original founder/owner of
Flypast)... He's returned to missionary work with Mission Aviation
Fellowship of Canada, and mentioned that he is considering selling his own
'XL' --- This one was manufactured in the Czech Republic (i.e. exquisite
workmanship), and has the fibreglass gear legs...
If anyone's interested they can contact Art at:
Mitchell, Art P. <amitchell@mafc.org>
BTW, I've signed on as MAFC's volunteer area rep in Montreal, so Art is now
my boss! Maybe you'll see us setting up an MAFC booth some day at an
airshow near you?? Who knows...
In case you're interested - check out the MAF sites at:
www.mafc.org (Canada)
or
www.maf.org (USA)
And while I'm posting 'Airplane For Sale' ads -- the STOL 701 that flew 3/4
of the way around the world is still parked at my local airstrip -- a
testament to Canadian Beauracracy gone mad -- and is probably for sale in
case anyone's interested. This a/c was also manufactured in the Czech
Republic and the local Rotax dealer has commented, it's one of the
"best-built aircraft" he's seen. If it's not sold here soon, I suspect
it'll be crated and shipped back to Slovenia.
Regards,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: HDS "Sport Pilot?" |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" <travliman58@hotmail.com>
In reading this thread I note several individuals commenting on the new
Sport Pilot/Light Sport Aircraft rule. I think its important that we all
realize that until its approved and published all we know is what the last
proposal was. No one I've talked to, including Zenith, and the E.A.A. Sport
Pilot phone line people KNOW what SP/LSA is going to be in its final form.
The rule could undergo several radical changes. The indications are that
Gross Weight will go up, that the stall speed limitations will remain as is,
but those are only indications.
Phillip - There is a builder in Florida that turned the wing root fairings
into 17 inch (?) wide flaps on his plane, I conntacted him and I think he
said he got about 5 mph knocked off the stall speed. I don't kow if that
will bring it into SP/LSA proposed limits though.
Good Luck
Bob Lindley
CH601-HD - I got a rudder and lots of paper now! 97% to go.
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
Message 32
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| Subject: | RE: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
Hi:
On the issue of punched holes, a friend who took a metal-working class
tells me that the instructor specifically said not to punch aluminum for
aircraft structural parts. His explanation was that (1) punching stresses
the metal in ways that drilling does not and (2) punching may create
micro-cracks that could propagate and these cannot be deburred out on
the front side of the punched hole and (3) the back side of the punched
hole should be deburred for the same reasons as a drilled hole.
== Gordon Duke
St. Paul, MN USA
701 rudder
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Morawski"
<morawski@highway1.com.au>
Hope I can have some meaningful input into this thread.
I built a 701 over three years (1300+ hours) and then pranged it after just
56 hours flying.
I didn't want to go through all that building again so I bought a Savannah
( I call it a Savannoh one)
I have completed all assembly (rivetting etc) after just 132 hours and
should be ready to paint in a few more hours work. How??
All (99%)the parts are made and accurately. You just assemble. Mostly you
dont even have to deburr because the holes are punched not drilled, just
whack em together and rivet. For example, one wing in a weekend, all slats
in a day, all ailerons in a day, horizontal stab in a day, rear fuse in a
day.
The metal is stamped and looks to come from the same mills as the ZAC parts
and most parts are beautifully cut and finished.
There are some small but nice improvements which 701 scratch builders could
use. (Could they sue if you copied?) and I think it is every bit as strong
if not more so. Mine is legal for 520kg MTOW.
I can't say anything about flying qualities yet as I havent flown but will
let you know when it happens
I havn't grappled with the moral/ ethical question - I just want to fly
sooner than later.
Rick Morawski
morawski@highway1.com.au
Message 33
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
My point is that vacuum pumps are subject to regular maintenance/rebuilds
and are generally limited as are most mechanical instruments, gyro's
included.
Apart from the fact one can't fit a vacuum pump to a Stratus, I am simply
saying there are better ways, as long as you are talking about "experimental
aircraft".
Case in point, Gyro's will not tolerate aerobatics (ok so not too relevent
in a ZAC) but solid state gyros are (claimed to be) bullet proof.
So bottom line the solid state gyro systems (either EFIS's or autopilots)
looki like a much better long term solution.
FRank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
george.pinneo@ngc.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Vacuum Pump
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
The 4-cylinder Rotax engines are designed to accept a vacuum pump driven by
the integral gearbox. Mine's worked well for 356 hours so far! Cost was
about $550 + $150. some 6 years ago.
GGP
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 34
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| Subject: | barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I have to agree, rubber hose on a high pressure oil line would seem a lot
hokey to me.
For fuel at 5psi I am OK with, providing the flex lines are not in the
cockpit...Metal will not burn through in the case of fire..
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
george.pinneo@ngc.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: barbed hose fittings
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
I don't like rubber hose! I've used aluminum tubing with Swagelok fittings
for oil, fuel, hydraulic & instrument lines. No barbs/no rubber except for
6" flex-section at Rotax Pierberg fuel pump. No issues in 470 some hours.
GGP
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Bladders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh" <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
Dave,
I talked to the people from Eagle Fuel Cells from Eagle River WI, when I
was at Oshkosh last Summer. They say their fuel cells are resistant to
anything used in auto or aviation fuels. They will make any shape fuel cell
you want. I was told that a simple rectangular tank of aproximately10
gallons cost around $400.00. The more unusual the shape and the more complex
the fittings are will add to the cost. They can also furnish foam like
blocks to fill up the inside of the tank to reduce the chance of sloshing
and explosion in an accident, this will also add to the cost. The Eagle Fuel
Cell people told me that a fuel cell was less likely to be punctured in an
accident and seldom leak although they can be repaired if they should become
punctured. A neat thing about fuel cells is that they can be removed from
the plane through the opening where the filler is. Also the cell must be
completely contained on all sides.
Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> Has anyone considered using rubberized fuel bladders in the wing lockers,
to fit the entire area? Or is this a no-no? I'm trying to maximize the fuel
in the lockers without going to LE tanks or having a header tank. Or maybe a
custom aluminium tank in the shape of the locker is best. Any comments are
always appreciated.
>
> Thanks.....Dave
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" <dknezace@bconnex.net>
Hi Grant,
I believe it's UHMW, standing for Ultra HIgh Molecular Weight.
(Polyethylene, I think)
I got mine from a local machine shop.
Are both top and bottom bearings wearing or just the bottom ones?
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Corriveau" <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Been 'lurking' the digest version for a while -- not much to say
> (surprise!)...
>
> However the imminent threat of summer has me thinking flying again. I
found
> and fixed the problem with my CAM100 ignition -- finally -- now if the
> engine still runs, I'm in business (it was a magnet with a 'burr' that was
> touching the face of the Hall Effect sensors when the gap became small due
> to engine heating)...
>
> Now I've found that my nose gear bearings (and others?) have worn very
> quickly and I want to make some plastic bearings from that nice white
> plastic stuff -- UHMEP..Z?..X?? You know what I'm talking about - right?
> Does someone remember offhand how big and thick a slice is needed to do
all
> the top and lower gear strut bearings? And a good source? Or can you at
> least remind me of the proper name for this stuff so I can search the
> archives...?
>
> BTW - I think my bearings may be wearing so fast because of the industrial
> chrome finish on the struts -- is this possible? Does this finish have a
> rougher texture against the aluminum than the original steel leg? If
that's
> not the reason, then I'm stumped. Tony Colucci operates from the same
> field, and his bearings with the original steel legs are lasting longer
than
> this...
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Grant,
What you're looking for is Ultra-high Molecular Weight Polyethylene
(UHMW) The stuff I used was a Delrin product. Could have used Nylon 6/6,
but
that's what I had. A good source for these is McMaster - Carr Supply Co
PO Box 4355, Chicago, IL 60680-4355. Their catalog is on the internet.
They sell sheets 12" x 24" x 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", etc. About $30. then,
for
the 1/2", what I used and I turned the hole in a square and tapered the
outside the
hole down to a flange about 5/16" thick. Really nice people to deal with.
Extremely prompt on delivery.
Sales Desk 1-630-833-0300
Subject: Zenith-List: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff?
> Now I've found that my nose gear bearings (and others?) have worn very
> quickly and I want to make some plastic bearings from that nice white
> plastic stuff -- UHMEP..Z?..X?? You know what I'm talking about - right?
> Does someone remember offhand how big and thick a slice is needed to do
all
> the top and lower gear strut bearings? And a good source? > Thanks,
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Don't want to burst your balloon but Aluminum tubing will quickly melt so it
doesn't make any difference whether the fuel line burns or melts, it will
feed the fire. Fire sleeve any fuel or oil line in front of the firewall.
Many fires are started when the exhaust system fails and the hot gasses melt
fuel or oil lines, carb bowls, and the like. There is a reason that we need
firewalls. FAA even made Bellanca replace an aluminum heater intake and
replace with steel.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: barbed hose fittings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I have to agree, rubber hose on a high pressure oil line would seem a lot
> hokey to me.
>
> For fuel at 5psi I am OK with, providing the flex lines are not in the
> cockpit...Metal will not burn through in the case of fire..
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> george.pinneo@ngc.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: barbed hose fittings
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
>
> I don't like rubber hose! I've used aluminum tubing with Swagelok fittings
> for oil, fuel, hydraulic & instrument lines. No barbs/no rubber except for
> 6" flex-section at Rotax Pierberg fuel pump. No issues in 470 some hours.
>
> GGP
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 39
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Not sure what the motivation is to avoid LE tanks Vs. locker tanks. My guess
is that the wings are already buttoned up and the builder does not want to
unzip them.
What I can tell you is that unzipping the wings is really not that hard...I
did it to mine twice, once bacause the LE tanks became available after I
finished my wings and once to weld one of the tanks that developed a leak.
Its preety easy to drill the rivet heads without touching the skin
underneath. What is important is to pilot drill them first with a 3/32nd
drill bit then follow through with a 1/8th bit very slowly.
The head will snap off before the drill bit touches the skin.
Sounds tricky but you will get pretty quick at doing this after a few.
The advantage is the LE tanks take up space that can't be used for anything
else...but still leaves the winglockers for baggage.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne McIntosh
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Bladders
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne McIntosh"
--> <mcintosh3017@insightbb.com>
Dave,
I talked to the people from Eagle Fuel Cells from Eagle River WI, when I
was at Oshkosh last Summer. They say their fuel cells are resistant to
anything used in auto or aviation fuels. They will make any shape fuel cell
you want. I was told that a simple rectangular tank of aproximately10
gallons cost around $400.00. The more unusual the shape and the more complex
the fittings are will add to the cost. They can also furnish foam like
blocks to fill up the inside of the tank to reduce the chance of sloshing
and explosion in an accident, this will also add to the cost. The Eagle Fuel
Cell people told me that a fuel cell was less likely to be punctured in an
accident and seldom leak although they can be repaired if they should become
punctured. A neat thing about fuel cells is that they can be removed from
the plane through the opening where the filler is. Also the cell must be
completely contained on all sides. Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> Has anyone considered using rubberized fuel bladders in the wing
> lockers,
to fit the entire area? Or is this a no-no? I'm trying to maximize the fuel
in the lockers without going to LE tanks or having a header tank. Or maybe a
custom aluminium tank in the shape of the locker is best. Any comments are
always appreciated.
>
> Thanks.....Dave
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 40
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
Problem with going without vacuum instruments or substituting a new
piece of equipment is that my panel is done and installed, including
vacuum driven gyros.
Hindsight being 20/20 I should have put more up-front thought into
this but I always knew a venturi would get the job done. At the time
I did my panel (a few years ago) the high-tech replacements for these
items were MUCH more expensive than they seem to be now. Oh well,
time to look for a good "hiding spot" for my venturi ;)
Thanks all
Andrew
Message 41
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|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
You got it, Frank. The wings are done, and I really didn't want to fool
with the leading edge skin. There's enough work to do without redoing what
has already been done. I'm even thinking about the header tank
again.......AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Isn't it Achem's Razor that
says the simplest method is the best solution! And ZAC's is the simplest
method.
Dave
> Not sure what the motivation is to avoid LE tanks Vs. locker tanks. My
guess
> is that the wings are already buttoned up and the builder does not want to
> unzip them.
>
> What I can tell you is that unzipping the wings is really not that
hard...I
> did it to mine twice, once bacause the LE tanks became available after I
> finished my wings and once to weld one of the tanks that developed a leak.
>
> Its preety easy to drill the rivet heads without touching the skin
> underneath. What is important is to pilot drill them first with a 3/32nd
> drill bit then follow through with a 1/8th bit very slowly.
>
> The head will snap off before the drill bit touches the skin.
>
> Sounds tricky but you will get pretty quick at doing this after a few.
>
> The advantage is the LE tanks take up space that can't be used for
anything
> else...but still leaves the winglockers for baggage.
>
> Frank
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Bladders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
This may be a good option but the cost is high if you do both wings. Maybe
a cell in one wing only.
Dave
>
> Dave,
> I talked to the people from Eagle Fuel Cells from Eagle River WI,
when I
> was at Oshkosh last Summer. They say their fuel cells are resistant to
> anything used in auto or aviation fuels. They will make any shape fuel
cell
> you want. I was told that a simple rectangular tank of aproximately10
> gallons cost around $400.00. The more unusual the shape and the more
complex
> the fittings are will add to the cost. They can also furnish foam like
> blocks to fill up the inside of the tank to reduce the chance of sloshing
> and explosion in an accident, this will also add to the cost. The Eagle
Fuel
> Cell people told me that a fuel cell was less likely to be punctured in an
> accident and seldom leak although they can be repaired if they should
become
> punctured. A neat thing about fuel cells is that they can be removed from
> the plane through the opening where the filler is. Also the cell must be
> completely contained on all sides.
> Wayne McIntosh Lafayette IN
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Actually that reminds me of a weak spot on the Stratus, namely the primer
line (if indeed you use the primer port instead of a choke cable) can only
be mad of thin walled 1/4" tygon tube.
The tube needs to be carefully routed or will rub aginst the cylinder heads
and will melt. Its ok if its tied up but I didn't firesleeve it due to the
fact that it is downstream of a solenoid that is also on the firewall.
I will check to see that I firesleeved the alu tubing though, that's a good
point!
Frank
Don't want to burst your balloon but Aluminum tubing will quickly melt so it
doesn't make any difference whether the fuel line burns or melts, it will
feed the fire. Fire sleeve any fuel or oil line in front of the firewall.
Many fires are started when the exhaust system fails and the hot gasses melt
fuel or oil lines, carb bowls, and the like. There is a reason that we need
firewalls. FAA even made Bellanca replace an aluminum heater intake and
replace with steel.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: barbed hose fittings
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> I have to agree, rubber hose on a high pressure oil line would seem a
> lot hokey to me.
>
> For fuel at 5psi I am OK with, providing the flex lines are not in the
> cockpit...Metal will not burn through in the case of fire..
>
> Frank
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> george.pinneo@ngc.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: barbed hose fittings
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
>
> I don't like rubber hose! I've used aluminum tubing with Swagelok
> fittings for oil, fuel, hydraulic & instrument lines. No barbs/no
> rubber except for 6" flex-section at Rotax Pierberg fuel pump. No
> issues in 470 some hours.
>
> GGP
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
Just for the info of all - The holes in a Savannah kit are not "punched."
The whole airframe is CNC machined, and either cut with lazers or high
pressure water. Don't know who started that "punched" rumor.. Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
>
> Hi:
>
> On the issue of punched holes, a friend who took a metal-working class
> tells me that the instructor specifically said not to punch aluminum for
> aircraft structural parts. His explanation was that (1) punching stresses
> the metal in ways that drilling does not and (2) punching may create
> micro-cracks that could propagate and these cannot be deburred out on
> the front side of the punched hole and (3) the back side of the punched
> hole should be deburred for the same reasons as a drilled hole.
>
> == Gordon Duke
> St. Paul, MN USA
> 701 rudder
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Morawski"
> <morawski@highway1.com.au>
>
> Hope I can have some meaningful input into this thread.
> I built a 701 over three years (1300+ hours) and then pranged it after
just
> 56 hours flying.
> I didn't want to go through all that building again so I bought a Savannah
> ( I call it a Savannoh one)
> I have completed all assembly (rivetting etc) after just 132 hours and
> should be ready to paint in a few more hours work. How??
> All (99%)the parts are made and accurately. You just assemble. Mostly you
> dont even have to deburr because the holes are punched not drilled, just
> whack em together and rivet. For example, one wing in a weekend, all slats
> in a day, all ailerons in a day, horizontal stab in a day, rear fuse in a
> day.
> The metal is stamped and looks to come from the same mills as the ZAC
parts
> and most parts are beautifully cut and finished.
> There are some small but nice improvements which 701 scratch builders
could
> use. (Could they sue if you copied?) and I think it is every bit as strong
> if not more so. Mine is legal for 520kg MTOW.
> I can't say anything about flying qualities yet as I havent flown but will
> let you know when it happens
> I havn't grappled with the moral/ ethical question - I just want to fly
> sooner than later.
> Rick Morawski
> morawski@highway1.com.au
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Great Zodiac XL for sale... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" <dknezace@bconnex.net>
Hey Grant,
What's the story about the "STOL 701 that flew 3/4
of the way around the world"? Why is it parked at your strip?
Dan
>
> And while I'm posting 'Airplane For Sale' ads -- the STOL 701 that flew
3/4
> of the way around the world is still parked at my local airstrip -- a
> testament to Canadian Beauracracy gone mad -- and is probably for sale in
> case anyone's interested. This a/c was also manufactured in the Czech
> Republic and the local Rotax dealer has commented, it's one of the
> "best-built aircraft" he's seen. If it's not sold here soon, I suspect
> it'll be crated and shipped back to Slovenia.
>
> Regards,
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 46
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Bummer!
Wonder what the resale value is for a pair of gyros....remember the
certified guys can't run the cool stuff so Ebay might not be a bad
solution...Also the Trutrack and or Dynon will fit in a standard 3 1/8
instrument hole...
That Truetrack would be a hot solution...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
SanClemente
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Vacuum Pump
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
--> <ansancle@townisp.com>
Problem with going without vacuum instruments or substituting a new
piece of equipment is that my panel is done and installed, including
vacuum driven gyros.
Hindsight being 20/20 I should have put more up-front thought into
this but I always knew a venturi would get the job done. At the time
I did my panel (a few years ago) the high-tech replacements for these
items were MUCH more expensive than they seem to be now. Oh well,
time to look for a good "hiding spot" for my venturi ;)
Thanks all
Andrew
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 47
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
True, and it will work just fine and the fuel stink would have made my Wife
sick...:)
Personally I just couldn't put the fuel over my lap (and there has been a
case of the straps failing during a forced landing that caused a fire I
believe).
Honestly thought, putting the LE tanks in will take you about a day and a
half if your tempted.
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Pepper
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Bladders
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
--> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
You got it, Frank. The wings are done, and I really didn't want to fool with
the leading edge skin. There's enough work to do without redoing what has
already been done. I'm even thinking about the header tank
again.......AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Isn't it Achem's Razor that says
the simplest method is the best solution! And ZAC's is the simplest method.
Dave
> Not sure what the motivation is to avoid LE tanks Vs. locker tanks. My
guess
> is that the wings are already buttoned up and the builder does not
> want to unzip them.
>
> What I can tell you is that unzipping the wings is really not that
hard...I
> did it to mine twice, once bacause the LE tanks became available after
> I finished my wings and once to weld one of the tanks that developed a
> leak.
>
> Its preety easy to drill the rivet heads without touching the skin
> underneath. What is important is to pilot drill them first with a
> 3/32nd drill bit then follow through with a 1/8th bit very slowly.
>
> The head will snap off before the drill bit touches the skin.
>
> Sounds tricky but you will get pretty quick at doing this after a few.
>
> The advantage is the LE tanks take up space that can't be used for
anything
> else...but still leaves the winglockers for baggage.
>
> Frank
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 48
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
But my temptations change every day! :{)
There shouldn't be any fuel smell in the cockpit if the header tank
connections are leak free and the tank properly vented. to the outside.
> True, and it will work just fine and the fuel stink would have made my
Wife
> sick...:)
>
> Personally I just couldn't put the fuel over my lap (and there has been a
> case of the straps failing during a forced landing that caused a fire I
> believe).
>
> Honestly thought, putting the LE tanks in will take you about a day and a
> half if your tempted.
>
> Frank
>
>
Message 49
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Frank,
A day's work for you is probably likely to be 10 days work for me......for
each wing!
> [Original Message]
> From: HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) <frank.hinde@hp.com>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/31/2004 2:10:50 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Bladders
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> True, and it will work just fine and the fuel stink would have made my
Wife
> sick...:)
>
> Personally I just couldn't put the fuel over my lap (and there has been a
> case of the straps failing during a forced landing that caused a fire I
> believe).
>
> Honestly thought, putting the LE tanks in will take you about a day and a
> half if your tempted.
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Pepper
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Bladders
>
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
> --> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> You got it, Frank. The wings are done, and I really didn't want to fool
with
> the leading edge skin. There's enough work to do without redoing what has
> already been done. I'm even thinking about the header tank
> again.......AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Isn't it Achem's Razor that
says
> the simplest method is the best solution! And ZAC's is the simplest
method.
>
> Dave
>
>
> > Not sure what the motivation is to avoid LE tanks Vs. locker tanks. My
> guess
> > is that the wings are already buttoned up and the builder does not
> > want to unzip them.
> >
> > What I can tell you is that unzipping the wings is really not that
> hard...I
> > did it to mine twice, once bacause the LE tanks became available after
> > I finished my wings and once to weld one of the tanks that developed a
> > leak.
> >
> > Its preety easy to drill the rivet heads without touching the skin
> > underneath. What is important is to pilot drill them first with a
> > 3/32nd drill bit then follow through with a 1/8th bit very slowly.
> >
> > The head will snap off before the drill bit touches the skin.
> >
> > Sounds tricky but you will get pretty quick at doing this after a few.
> >
> > The advantage is the LE tanks take up space that can't be used for
> anything
> > else...but still leaves the winglockers for baggage.
> >
> > Frank
> >
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Plastic-protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
Hello Listers,
I am currently building a 601 HD from scratch, it is the second scratch
built Zodie I have tackled so far. With the first one I had spent agonizing
hours trying to pull, peel and force the plastic protection layer of the new
sheets, and then later on spent days priming and painting. I am able to
learn, and this time I am very carefull in handling the sheets, and simply
keep the plastic on. It is durable as anything, and I found a very tough
white packing tape that will cover joints neatly, sticks like buggery. I
don't have to prime the joints either, as the plastic keeps the metal from
touching.
Only disadvantage is the colour, you can get any, as long as it is white.
Guess a few taped on blue cheat lines will do the trick.
Building is so much easier this way, thought I'd let you guys know!
Cheers, Chris
50% done on the plastic fantastic
Message 51
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Andrew . . . I'm nostalgic, and I think venturi tubes are funky neat on a
plane like the 701. I'm also going to strut mount a pitot tube on my 701.
If I was building a "speedster" like a 601, then I would go streamline. The
old stuff is part of low and slow in my opinion. Robert Schoenberger Do
not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew SanClemente" <ansancle@townisp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Vacuum Pump
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
<ansancle@townisp.com>
>
> Problem with going without vacuum instruments or substituting a new
> piece of equipment is that my panel is done and installed, including
> vacuum driven gyros.
> Hindsight being 20/20 I should have put more up-front thought into
> this but I always knew a venturi would get the job done. At the time
> I did my panel (a few years ago) the high-tech replacements for these
> items were MUCH more expensive than they seem to be now. Oh well,
> time to look for a good "hiding spot" for my venturi ;)
> Thanks all
> Andrew
>
>
Message 52
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Stanley Challgren <challgren@mac.com>
Andrew:
We got our vacuum system kit from Rocky Mountain Propellors (Eire,
Colorado 303-665-7905) for $673 in July 2000. It is a RAVAC-K2 and
has worked great since first flight. While installation was difficult
because of the 15 gallon header tank, it is possible to install. Given
the other options now, I'd go all electric and EFIS.
Stan
601 HDS
On Mar 31, 2004, at 9:35 AM, Andrew SanClemente wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
> <ansancle@townisp.com>
>
> I have searched the archives regarding vacuum systems and see that
> most have either gone with an electric panel or use a venturi.
> Has anyone out there used a vacuum pump and if so can you let me in
> on the details of what you used?
> I may still use a venturi but I would really like my gyro's spooled
> up from the get-go.
> Thanks
> Andrew (601 HDS / Stratus EA-81)
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Bladders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
I think the razor was Occam's.
George Swinford
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Bladders
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> You got it, Frank. The wings are done, and I really didn't want to fool
> with the leading edge skin. There's enough work to do without redoing what
> has already been done. I'm even thinking about the header tank
> again.......AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Isn't it Achem's Razor that
> says the simplest method is the best solution! And ZAC's is the simplest
> method.
>
> Dave
>
>
> > Not sure what the motivation is to avoid LE tanks Vs. locker tanks. My
> guess
> > is that the wings are already buttoned up and the builder does not want
to
> > unzip them.
> >
> > What I can tell you is that unzipping the wings is really not that
> hard...I
> > did it to mine twice, once bacause the LE tanks became available after I
> > finished my wings and once to weld one of the tanks that developed a
leak.
> >
> > Its preety easy to drill the rivet heads without touching the skin
> > underneath. What is important is to pilot drill them first with a 3/32nd
> > drill bit then follow through with a 1/8th bit very slowly.
> >
> > The head will snap off before the drill bit touches the skin.
> >
> > Sounds tricky but you will get pretty quick at doing this after a few.
> >
> > The advantage is the LE tanks take up space that can't be used for
> anything
> > else...but still leaves the winglockers for baggage.
> >
> > Frank
> >
>
>
Message 54
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Uh huh....sure...:)...Wait till the first time you spill some on top of the
fuse.
That's like when I promised my Wife there would be no dust when I sanded the
drywall in our house 'cos we would make sure everything was covered up...:)
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Pepper
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel Bladders
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
--> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
But my temptations change every day! :{)
There shouldn't be any fuel smell in the cockpit if the header tank
connections are leak free and the tank properly vented. to the outside.
> True, and it will work just fine and the fuel stink would have made my
Wife
> sick...:)
>
> Personally I just couldn't put the fuel over my lap (and there has
> been a case of the straps failing during a forced landing that caused
> a fire I believe).
>
> Honestly thought, putting the LE tanks in will take you about a day
> and a half if your tempted.
>
> Frank
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 55
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I think you can get an electric powered vacuum pump too...Do know anything
about them, you also have a pretty good output from the Stratus Alternator
too.
Frank
> Problem with going without vacuum instruments or substituting a new
> piece of equipment is that my panel is done and installed, including
> vacuum driven gyros. Hindsight being 20/20 I should have put more
> up-front thought into this but I always knew a venturi would get the
> job done. At the time I did my panel (a few years ago) the high-tech
> replacements for these items were MUCH more expensive than they seem
> to be now. Oh well, time to look for a good "hiding spot" for my
> venturi ;) Thanks all
> Andrew
>
Message 56
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|
| Subject: | RE: Savannah vs CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
I disagree. I am certain that the plans are copyrighted. There are
probably no patents. However, you cannot build more than one airplane
from a set of plans without violating the contract, the law and ethics.
So, a manufacturing company cannot (in my opinion) obtain a copy of
the plans for a CH701 and manufacture more than one completed plane or
one kit.
The issue in my mind is how many parts are identical in the two planes.
If the answer is zero, then the Savannah is a legitimate plane.
Can someone give me the answer as to how many of the parts of the
two planes are interchangeable? Thanks.
== Gordon Duke
St. Paul, MN USA
701 rudder
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>I guess it doesn't really matter, because I don't remember seeing any
>copyright or design patents by Zenith. So it's open season, and Zenith or
>anyone else doesn't have a right to bitch. I looked at the Savannah very
>hard before I bought my 701 kit. There are some significant differences,
Message 57
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Andrew,
I can't give you any reports on how the system will work in the air but I
inherited the parts for a conventional vacuum system with my project and
have incorporated it into my panel. The Jab 3300 will directly drive a
conventional dry vacuum pump and Tony B's book gives good directions on how
to plumb the system. I have only turned the system over with the starter
but the A I starts to erect with only a few RPM so I don't expect any
problems. I don't expect any IFR in the Zenair but like seeing the horizon
and DG in front of me. I have a Mooney with full IFR and it's more like I'm
used to to have a gyro panel. I might consider the electronic gyro if I
didn't have vacuum already. There is something to say for non-electric
gauges, tho. The Anywhere Map map system using a PDA has an optional
electonic gyro that will display on the map. Not quite as nice as HUD, but
combines a lot of info in one screen.
Good luck
Ron D
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew SanClemente" <ansancle@townisp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Vacuum Pump
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
<ansancle@townisp.com>
>
> I have searched the archives regarding vacuum systems and see that
> most have either gone with an electric panel or use a venturi.
> Has anyone out there used a vacuum pump and if so can you let me in
> on the details of what you used?
> I may still use a venturi but I would really like my gyro's spooled
> up from the get-go.
> Thanks
> Andrew (601 HDS / Stratus EA-81)
>
>
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/30/04 2:45 AM, Peter Franke at adsl4749@tpg.com.au wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Franke" <adsl4749@tpg.com.au>
>
> Dave, give this experiment a try
>
> Get two drinking glasses and two straws. Fill one glass up with water (or
> any other beveridge), and only slightly fill the other glass. Put a straw
> into each glass and start sucking. You'll see what happens when one glass
> empties.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
You don't suck fuel out the top of a fuel tank, it flows out the bottom
under its own weight to the tee at the gascolator. The only time you would
have a problem is if the empty tank has enough air pressure in it to push
the fuel from the other tank away from the tee. This is more likely to
happen with low wings than with high wings because of the lower head
pressure in the low wing case. A fuel pump at the outlet of each tank would
most likely prevent this problem.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Nearly done.
do not archive.
Message 59
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Ya, but you cannot prevent dust when sanding drywall no matter what you do.
But you can be careful when refueling so you don't spill any.....and carry
a cockpit air freshener! LOL
Dave
>
> Uh huh....sure...:)...Wait till the first time you spill some on top of
the
> fuse.
>
> That's like when I promised my Wife there would be no dust when I sanded
the
> drywall in our house 'cos we would make sure everything was covered
up...:)
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Bladders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Right
>
> I think the razor was Occam's.
>
> George Swinford
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: Hoses & Pumps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> What I find VERY important in ZAC's airplanes is that they all have
> this things in common: Very simple airplane with KIS in capital
> letters, very strong, very light, easy to build (even that someones
> of us get lost in this simplicity:-)
Gary, I certainly agree with that in concept, and in fact, it was the
sole reason why I elected to stay with the hose/barbed fittings for the
fuel system, and my facet pump being mounted as per the plans (aka
sucking some fuel) parallel to the engine driven pump. I figured Chris
Heintz knows a hell of a lot more about building an airplane than I do.
BUT, then you read the Bingelis books, and he advises not even to
consider barbed fittings (same advice given by the Corvair expert William
Wynne). So, where does a dummy like me go to get the right advice? Even
those on this list (whose credentials I don't know, but seem to know a
heck of a lot more than me!) are divided on these important issues.
So in the end, my plane will have the simplicity of ZAC's design, and
hopefully there won't be any I-told-you-so'd later! I know that in all
the cars I've ever owned, I've never had a fuel hose blow out on me. And
if the clamp starts to dig into the hose over the barbed fitting, I
should be able to see traces of slight leakage before it becomes a major
problem. Or at least that's what I'm hoping.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: Hoses & Pumps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Then I'd love to know why Rotax has barbed hose fittings on its fuel pump.
Unless you remove the pump from the engine, you will have barbed hoses on
inlet and outlet. The carbs are also barbed fittings! The certified engine
has the same layout, I think.
I my experience, just because it's "aviation" certified or FAA approved
doesn't mean a product is fail safe.
Dave
> > What I find VERY important in ZAC's airplanes is that they all have
> > this things in common: Very simple airplane with KIS in capital
> > letters, very strong, very light, easy to build (even that someones
> > of us get lost in this simplicity:-)
>
> Gary, I certainly agree with that in concept, and in fact, it was the
> sole reason why I elected to stay with the hose/barbed fittings for the
> fuel system, and my facet pump being mounted as per the plans (aka
> sucking some fuel) parallel to the engine driven pump. I figured Chris
> Heintz knows a hell of a lot more about building an airplane than I do.
>
> BUT, then you read the Bingelis books, and he advises not even to
> consider barbed fittings (same advice given by the Corvair expert William
> Wynne). So, where does a dummy like me go to get the right advice? Even
> those on this list (whose credentials I don't know, but seem to know a
> heck of a lot more than me!) are divided on these important issues.
>
> So in the end, my plane will have the simplicity of ZAC's design, and
> hopefully there won't be any I-told-you-so'd later! I know that in all
> the cars I've ever owned, I've never had a fuel hose blow out on me. And
> if the clamp starts to dig into the hose over the barbed fitting, I
> should be able to see traces of slight leakage before it becomes a major
> problem. Or at least that's what I'm hoping.
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
>
>
Message 63
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Frank,
What will you do if you lose both wing fuel pumps, and you don't have an
engine pump as a backup? Don't you think the trees will be getting bigger
and bigger?
> No! it's far better to be deposited (fuel) all around you...or if it's in
a
> compromised wing tank with a collapsed gear running into the cockpit
through
> the lightening holes. Face it, if you crash your going to die because
the G
> loads are going to get you. If you land, you may bend your plane but
> survive.
>
> And no thanks on dumping the fuel pump, I'll keep my engine driven fuel
pump
> attached right where rotax designed it to be.
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 64
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| Subject: | RE: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Gordon:
All of the holes on the ZAC rib lightening holes are punched and flanged at
the same time with a very smart tool. The workers at the ZAC factory let me
punch/flange few holes for fun while I was there for my rudder-building
workshop. If you have purchased a kit from ZAC, you wil have MANY punched
holes in your airplane.
If you are talking about small, punched holes where rivets go, I can't
imagine why they would do this on kit parts. Since they are most certainly
done in batches with several sheets piled up, punching would not work very
well.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/home.asp
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Bladders |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ALEMBIC7@aol.com
Occam's
Message 66
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Well that requires two independent failures which I do not plan for in any
of my critical systems...Think about it, you have two independent ignition
systems...not three, correct?
The reason the pumps are independent is they have two different sources of
fuel (one per each tank) and they are driven by two independent
batteries...Both charged by the same alternator but seperated by a diode.
I make sure there are no potential interconnecting points between the two
electrical systems such as any changeover switches...evertyhing has its own
on/off switch
About the only thing that can go wrong as far as I can see is if the
alternator voltage regulator goes whacko and over volts
everything....couldn't find good solution for that one.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Pepper
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Fuel tanks
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
--> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Frank,
What will you do if you lose both wing fuel pumps, and you don't have an
engine pump as a backup? Don't you think the trees will be getting bigger
and bigger?
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: Plastic-protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Let me get this right. You are placing plastic tape in between the metal
pieces that you are riveting together? My gut feeling is this will destroy
the strength of the riveted joint. I would make a phone call to ZAC for
approval if this is what you are doing.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Plastic-protection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I am currently building a 601 HD from scratch, it is the second scratch
> built Zodie I have tackled so far. With the first one I had spent
agonizing
> hours trying to pull, peel and force the plastic protection layer of the
new
> sheets, and then later on spent days priming and painting. I am able to
> learn, and this time I am very carefull in handling the sheets, and simply
> keep the plastic on. It is durable as anything, and I found a very tough
> white packing tape that will cover joints neatly, sticks like buggery. I
> don't have to prime the joints either, as the plastic keeps the metal
from
> touching.
> Only disadvantage is the colour, you can get any, as long as it is white.
> Guess a few taped on blue cheat lines will do the trick.
> Building is so much easier this way, thought I'd let you guys know!
>
> Cheers, Chris
> 50% done on the plastic fantastic
>
>
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: Hoses & Pumps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
--- wizard-24@juno.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>
> > What I find VERY important in ZAC's airplanes is that they all have
> > this things in common: Very simple airplane with KIS in capital
> > letters, very strong, very light, easy to build (even that someones
>
> > of us get lost in this simplicity:-)
>
> Gary, I certainly agree with that in concept, and in fact, it was the
> sole reason why I elected to stay with the hose/barbed fittings for
> the
> fuel system, and my facet pump being mounted as per the plans (aka
> sucking some fuel) parallel to the engine driven pump. I figured
> Chris
> Heintz knows a hell of a lot more about building an airplane than I
> do.
>
> BUT, then you read the Bingelis books, and he advises not even to
> consider barbed fittings (same advice given by the Corvair expert
> William
> Wynne). So, where does a dummy like me go to get the right advice?
> Even
> those on this list (whose credentials I don't know, but seem to know
> a
> heck of a lot more than me!) are divided on these important issues.
>
> So in the end, my plane will have the simplicity of ZAC's design, and
> hopefully there won't be any I-told-you-so'd later! I know that in
> all
> the cars I've ever owned, I've never had a fuel hose blow out on me.
> And
> if the clamp starts to dig into the hose over the barbed fitting, I
> should be able to see traces of slight leakage before it becomes a
> major
> problem. Or at least that's what I'm hoping.
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
Mike,
I advise to change the hoses and clamps every year or two...
In our Club, we have several Ultralights (FAI stds) and a few
homebuilts, about 40 planes in total, 30 members closed membership.
Most of the planes have rather simple fuel systems with easy reach and
mantainance, we always use the hoses type advised by the manufactures.
One of the "clubs particular" rules included in our yearly "full check
out" of our planes; is to change all the fuel hoses and clamps (no more
than every 2 years), most of us change them every year.
The cost of this "peace of mind" is only two or 3 yards of hose, about
10 new clamps and a few nylon ty wraps (sp?) (nylon straps), we all
help each other.
Also the Clubs Safety Commite (with I am part), "signs off" the planes.
We look at each other as family, we all have kids... so we take care of
all of us.
Saludos
Gary Gower
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
Message 69
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| Subject: | Re: barbed hose fittings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
> I don't like rubber hose! I've used aluminum tubing with Swagelok fittings
for oil, fuel, hydraulic & instrument lines. No barbs/no rubber except for
6" flex-section at Rotax Pierberg fuel pump. No issues in 470 some hours.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Must be what one get accustom to ...... as I flew my first plane (ultra
light) with nothing BUT rubber hoses, barbs, and clamps for almost 300 hours
without a lick of trouble. And that darn plane would shake the fillings out
of your teeth with it's 2 stroke engine. I figured if it can take that abuse
it's good enough for my 601 (now with 80 hours on the clock). And the only
dip of fuel I've ever seen was from my leaking 16 gal header tank, but
that's another story!
Kelly
601 HD Stratus
Message 70
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
> I'll give it a try. Hows the Corvair running and
> what are your thoughts on
> it. This is the one i'm leaning towards
Dave,
The corvair has a broken valve and a melted
piston, but what do you expect for $100!
-Joking aside, I just recently picked up a core
and misc heads and parts. I think Mike is getting
pretty close to flying w/corvair. I am still way out
from flying. I have been looking into power plants
for 4 years, and finally decided on corvair. Check
these out if you haven't already:
www.flycorvair.com
www.Corvaircraft.com
Corvaircraft.com has a corvair e-mail list
similar to this one. Their members are even
crotchetier and more stubborn than here - which is to
say that they know everything and can answer anything.
flycorvair.com is William Wynn's site. He is
recognized as the "Corvair Authority" and his
conversion manual ($59 avail on his website) is the
bible for us mere mortals to build from. He is very
close to flying a 601xl with corvair power (within a
couple of weeks), and offers motor mounts specifically
for the Zodie as well as an amazing looking nose bowl
for the cowling.
This is probably old news to most of the list,
but maybe useful to a newcomer.
Respectfully,
Brandon Tucker
__________________________________
Message 71
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Frank
How about the "Crowbar" O.V . protection mentioned in the Aeroelectric
Connection?
Also where would one place checkvalves to supplement the ones on the Facet
Pumps? Intake or the outlet side? At the pump?
Joe Motis
601 XL
working on wings
Message 72
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| Subject: | Fuel tanks (bad luck?) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Dave...,
I think first our wife will keep us home working on mantainance or a
new volcano below our fight path will make explosion, this will be bad
luck :-) :-) :-)
Then aviation engines will require 3 magnetos (4 will be better, one as
back up of each magneto)...
I am sure each pump has his own fuse and switch, and is tested every
preflight, so if one fails I am sure nobody will dare to fly the plane
until it is changed.
One pump working (if one pump fails in flight) will take you safetly to
the next alternate airstip in your map or GPS... Never wait until the
tank is completly empty to change tanks...
Saludos
Gary Gower.
PLEASE Do not archive.
--- Dave Pepper <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> Frank,
>
> What will you do if you lose both wing fuel pumps, and you don't have
> an
> engine pump as a backup? Don't you think the trees will be getting
> bigger
> and bigger?
>
>
> > No! it's far better to be deposited (fuel) all around you...or if
> it's in
> a
> > compromised wing tank with a collapsed gear running into the
> cockpit
> through
> > the lightening holes. Face it, if you crash your going to die
> because
> the G
> > loads are going to get you. If you land, you may bend your plane
> but
> > survive.
> >
> > And no thanks on dumping the fuel pump, I'll keep my engine driven
> fuel
> pump
> > attached right where rotax designed it to be.
> > Do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: Hoses & Pumps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> I advise to change the hoses and clamps every year or two...
That's good advice, and one I plan to implement every couple or few
years. Problem is a few of those lines will be really difficult to
replace without tearing the wings apart, such as the lines running to the
outboard auxiliary tanks (those lines run through a sleeve welded to the
inside if the inboard tanks, and are a tight fit).
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 74
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
The fuel tank, vapor lock, selector valve horse has been badly mauled.
Beaten to death is more correct.
However, is there anyone on the list who has built and flown a 701 with only
the firewall-mounted "header tank" as in the earlier plans BEFORE the wing
tanks became either standard or an option?
Reason for the question is that the bottom of the tank, and therefore the
gascolator, is below the bottom of the engine. This arrangement would then
depend on the Rotax engine-mounted fuel pump being able to suck fuel uphill. This
is the method ZAC shows on plans up to about 2001. Comments solicited.
Thanks,
Zed Smith/801/R912/92.xxx% do not archive
Message 75
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
One alternator and one voltage regulator? and no engine pump or gravity
feed system! Trees! Even airliners have have total electrical failures, but
engines keep running because they suck fuel from the tanks. A total
electrical failure is not beyond the realm of possibilities.
Dave
>
> Well that requires two independent failures which I do not plan for in any
> of my critical systems...Think about it, you have two independent ignition
> systems...not three, correct?
>
> The reason the pumps are independent is they have two different sources of
> fuel (one per each tank) and they are driven by two independent
> batteries...Both charged by the same alternator but seperated by a diode.
>
> I make sure there are no potential interconnecting points between the two
> electrical systems such as any changeover switches...evertyhing has its
own
> on/off switch
>
> About the only thing that can go wrong as far as I can see is if the
> alternator voltage regulator goes whacko and over volts
> everything....couldn't find good solution for that one.
>
> Frank
>
>
Message 76
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| Subject: | Fuel tanks (bad luck?) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Gary,
Think total electrical system failure. And think that if one pump can fail,
then so can the other one.....and it always happens in flight.
>
> I think first our wife will keep us home working on mantainance or a
> new volcano below our fight path will make explosion, this will be bad
> luck :-) :-) :-)
>
> Then aviation engines will require 3 magnetos (4 will be better, one as
> back up of each magneto)...
>
> I am sure each pump has his own fuse and switch, and is tested every
> preflight, so if one fails I am sure nobody will dare to fly the plane
> until it is changed.
> One pump working (if one pump fails in flight) will take you safetly to
> the next alternate airstip in your map or GPS... Never wait until the
> tank is completly empty to change tanks...
>
> Saludos
> Gary Gower.
>
> PLEASE Do not archive.
>
>
> --- Dave Pepper <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
> > <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Frank,
> >
> > What will you do if you lose both wing fuel pumps, and you don't have
> > an
> > engine pump as a backup? Don't you think the trees will be getting
> > bigger
> > and bigger?
> >
> >
> > > No! it's far better to be deposited (fuel) all around you...or if
> > it's in
> > a
> > > compromised wing tank with a collapsed gear running into the
> > cockpit
> > through
> > > the lightening holes. Face it, if you crash your going to die
> > because
> > the G
> > > loads are going to get you. If you land, you may bend your plane
> > but
> > > survive.
> > >
> > > And no thanks on dumping the fuel pump, I'll keep my engine driven
> > fuel
> > pump
> > > attached right where rotax designed it to be.
> > > Do not archive
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
>
>
Message 77
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Savannah vs CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
You are correct, the plans are copyrighted. Which means you can't copy the
plans without their permission. Has nothing to do with how many times or
what you can use them for. I bought the plans with the rights to use them
as I please except to copy or republish without ZAC's permission. I don't
remember any contract stipulating the number of times I could use the plans.
I have no idea how many parts are interchangeable. With the pegastol wings,
there are none that I know of. I looked at the Savanna real hard and there
are a lot of differences/improvements, so I really doubt too many parts are
interchangeable.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Savannah vs CH701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
>
> I disagree. I am certain that the plans are copyrighted. There are
> probably no patents. However, you cannot build more than one airplane
> from a set of plans without violating the contract, the law and ethics.
> So, a manufacturing company cannot (in my opinion) obtain a copy of
> the plans for a CH701 and manufacture more than one completed plane or
> one kit.
>
> The issue in my mind is how many parts are identical in the two planes.
> If the answer is zero, then the Savannah is a legitimate plane.
>
> Can someone give me the answer as to how many of the parts of the
> two planes are interchangeable? Thanks.
>
> == Gordon Duke
> St. Paul, MN USA
> 701 rudder
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
> >I guess it doesn't really matter, because I don't remember seeing any
> >copyright or design patents by Zenith. So it's open season, and Zenith
or
> >anyone else doesn't have a right to bitch. I looked at the Savannah very
> >hard before I bought my 701 kit. There are some significant differences,
>
>
---
Message 78
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Tom, would you please enlighten us as to which opinion is correct, then we
can move on.
Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
<tmarson@pressenter.com>
>
> Seems like the sum total of all this is a good short article in Sport
Pilot.
>
> Fuel starvation is a major problem with homebuilts and when the smoke
> clears the answers and not too complex. But boy there are lots of
"opinions"
> that are not correct. Seems like lots of people "hear" someting and accept
> it as fact without enough personal thought and evaluation.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > The conversation has me convinced. IF you are pumping from 2 sources
and
> > one goes dry you will pump air. BUT if you have a pump pumping from a
> single
> > source then you are go to go until you pump it dry. If you have two
tanks
> > and use two pumps then you are good to go. One pump, two tanks and you
> have
> > a problem.
> >
> >
>
>
---
Message 79
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| Subject: | Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
It is UHMW, This means Ultra High Molecular Weight, and it is polyethelyne.
Mc Master-Carr in Chicago has it. Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Corriveau" <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Been 'lurking' the digest version for a while -- not much to say
> (surprise!)...
>
> However the imminent threat of summer has me thinking flying again. I
found
> and fixed the problem with my CAM100 ignition -- finally -- now if the
> engine still runs, I'm in business (it was a magnet with a 'burr' that was
> touching the face of the Hall Effect sensors when the gap became small due
> to engine heating)...
>
> Now I've found that my nose gear bearings (and others?) have worn very
> quickly and I want to make some plastic bearings from that nice white
> plastic stuff -- UHMEP..Z?..X?? You know what I'm talking about - right?
> Does someone remember offhand how big and thick a slice is needed to do
all
> the top and lower gear strut bearings? And a good source? Or can you at
> least remind me of the proper name for this stuff so I can search the
> archives...?
>
> BTW - I think my bearings may be wearing so fast because of the industrial
> chrome finish on the struts -- is this possible? Does this finish have a
> rougher texture against the aluminum than the original steel leg? If
that's
> not the reason, then I'm stumped. Tony Colucci operates from the same
> field, and his bearings with the original steel legs are lasting longer
than
> this...
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 80
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Dont know if Vans RVs are punched or drilled but they are "preholed".
Thousands of Kits. Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" <gduke@csom.umn.edu>
>
> Hi:
>
> On the issue of punched holes, a friend who took a metal-working class
> tells me that the instructor specifically said not to punch aluminum for
> aircraft structural parts. His explanation was that (1) punching stresses
> the metal in ways that drilling does not and (2) punching may create
> micro-cracks that could propagate and these cannot be deburred out on
> the front side of the punched hole and (3) the back side of the punched
> hole should be deburred for the same reasons as a drilled hole.
>
> == Gordon Duke
> St. Paul, MN USA
> 701 rudder
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Rick Morawski"
> <morawski@highway1.com.au>
>
> Hope I can have some meaningful input into this thread.
> I built a 701 over three years (1300+ hours) and then pranged it after
just
> 56 hours flying.
> I didn't want to go through all that building again so I bought a Savannah
> ( I call it a Savannoh one)
> I have completed all assembly (rivetting etc) after just 132 hours and
> should be ready to paint in a few more hours work. How??
> All (99%)the parts are made and accurately. You just assemble. Mostly you
> dont even have to deburr because the holes are punched not drilled, just
> whack em together and rivet. For example, one wing in a weekend, all slats
> in a day, all ailerons in a day, horizontal stab in a day, rear fuse in a
> day.
> The metal is stamped and looks to come from the same mills as the ZAC
parts
> and most parts are beautifully cut and finished.
> There are some small but nice improvements which 701 scratch builders
could
> use. (Could they sue if you copied?) and I think it is every bit as strong
> if not more so. Mine is legal for 520kg MTOW.
> I can't say anything about flying qualities yet as I havent flown but will
> let you know when it happens
> I havn't grappled with the moral/ ethical question - I just want to fly
> sooner than later.
> Rick Morawski
> morawski@highway1.com.au
>
>
Message 81
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| Subject: | Re: Physics of Vapour lock |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Vapor forming between the final pump and the carb would just move up the
Carb bowl and percolate out. No Problem there. A hot line between the tank
and the pump is the source of potiential vapor lock.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Physics of Vapour lock
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
<drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Yep, there is a section like that, and the electric pump sucks fuel
> downstream of the gascolator in the engine compartment. But where would
> vapour form in this system upstream from the elec pump? And if it did
form,
> wouldn't it move upward to the tank?
> Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Physics of Vapour lock
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
> <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> >
> > Probably is eliminated ---- but not if you have a section of fuel line
> > between the header tank and the electric pump AND IF THAT LINE IS
EXPOSED
> TO
> > HOT ENGINE COMPARTMENT TEMPS. Tom
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Physics of Vapour lock
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
> > <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> > >
> > > Frank,
> > > Thanks for bringing us back to the elementals. I have a 16 gallon
> header
> > > tank only, with an electric fuel pump parallel to the mechanical pump.
> > > Since the electric pump is below the header tank, does this mean that
> > vapour
> > > lock is eliminated or overcome when this pump is on?
> > > Bob
> > > -----
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 82
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| Subject: | Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
Hi Grant
There are a couple suitable pieces on Ebay right now
with the bonus that the sellers actually know how to
send it to Canada.
Jim Pollard
Message 83
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell <bill@flyinmiata.com>
Has anybody tried this yet?:
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Ultra/ultra.html
Message 84
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| Subject: | Re: Plastic-protection |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Chris, From what you just said I understand that you final rivet pieces of
alumimnum together with the protective plastic still inplace between the two
pieces. Is that correct?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Plastic-protection
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
>
> Hello Listers,
>
> I am currently building a 601 HD from scratch, it is the second scratch
> built Zodie I have tackled so far. With the first one I had spent
agonizing
> hours trying to pull, peel and force the plastic protection layer of the
new
> sheets, and then later on spent days priming and painting. I am able to
> learn, and this time I am very carefull in handling the sheets, and simply
> keep the plastic on. It is durable as anything, and I found a very tough
> white packing tape that will cover joints neatly, sticks like buggery. I
> don't have to prime the joints either, as the plastic keeps the metal
from
> touching.
> Only disadvantage is the colour, you can get any, as long as it is white.
> Guess a few taped on blue cheat lines will do the trick.
> Building is so much easier this way, thought I'd let you guys know!
>
> Cheers, Chris
> 50% done on the plastic fantastic
>
>
Message 85
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| Subject: | Re: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
I have run some wear tests between UHMW and Delrin. Delrin wore much
faster. If some one wants a picure of the aluminum tube spun in the
different bearings let me know. I will email it --- dont think this list
will accept Digital pics. tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Grant,
> What you're looking for is Ultra-high Molecular Weight Polyethylene
> (UHMW) The stuff I used was a Delrin product. Could have used Nylon 6/6,
> but
> that's what I had. A good source for these is McMaster - Carr Supply Co
> PO Box 4355, Chicago, IL 60680-4355. Their catalog is on the internet.
> They sell sheets 12" x 24" x 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8", etc. About $30.
then,
> for
> the 1/2", what I used and I turned the hole in a square and tapered the
> outside the
> hole down to a flange about 5/16" thick. Really nice people to deal with.
> Extremely prompt on delivery.
>
> Sales Desk 1-630-833-0300
>
>
> Subject: Zenith-List: UMHE...pztzle....gurble...plastic stuff?
>
> > Now I've found that my nose gear bearings (and others?) have worn very
> > quickly and I want to make some plastic bearings from that nice white
> > plastic stuff -- UHMEP..Z?..X?? You know what I'm talking about -
right?
> > Does someone remember offhand how big and thick a slice is needed to do
> all
> > the top and lower gear strut bearings? And a good source? > Thanks,
> > --
> > Grant Corriveau
> > C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 86
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Bill,
No but I am installing the E2 EMS as an engine monitor. I may go for a few
"smart singles" , including the attitude and and compass. MGL's instruments
are small, and fit a 601 panel very well.
Dave
>
>
> Has anybody tried this yet?:
> http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/Ultra/ultra.html
>
>
Message 87
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
Clamped hoses are funny things.
Sometimes they seem to loosen up by themselves
and start leaking, other times they ares on so good
you cant get them off without splitting the hose end
with your knife.
There are 2 kinds of clamps that I know of that keep
a spring like clamping force on the hose so as the
fittings expand and contract with heat, the clamping
force stays the same.
One kind is called Oetiker clamps they are a bit of a pain
to install because you need a special pincher. It looks a bit
like a pair of side cutters. It is basically a band with ears
on one or both sides that are pinched. You can see these
often on acetylene hoses. To remove them they have to
be cut off.
There are also worm or jubilee style clamps that have a
spring under the head of the worm screw. Known as
a constant torque clamp some places.. Some have
a regular looking spiral spring and some have what look
like Belleville washers.You tighten
these until the spring is mostly compressed and it keeps
the same amount of tension on the hose even if the
hose starts to extrude some over time. The only place
I have seen these are on large equipment on the air
intake hoses. I think they are getting popular with
silicon type hoses for coolant also. The only place
I have seen these in a small fuel line size is in the
Del city on line catalog at https://www.delcity.net
They also have lots of electrical stuff. Use clamps
in the search box.
Jim Pollard
Message 88
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Savannah vs CH701 -- punched holes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: morawski@highway1.com.au
I said the holes were punched because a few of the holes in my kit still retained
the "plug" part and
it was too close fitting for laser, maybe I'm wrong there
Rick Morawski
Quoting David & Maria Lumgair <dlummy@visi.net>:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "David & Maria Lumgair" <dlummy@visi.net>
>
> Just for the info of all - The holes in a Savannah kit are not "punched."
> The whole airframe is CNC machined, and either cut with lazers or high
> pressure water. Don't know who started that "punched" rumor.. Dave
>
>
>
Message 89
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| Subject: | Re: Hoses & Pumps |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/31/04 8:58 PM, wizard-24@juno.com at wizard-24@juno.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
>> I advise to change the hoses and clamps every year or two...
The only problem with rubber fuel lines is that they do have to be replaced
every so often. Replacing the fuel lines between the tanks and the fuselage
would require removing the wings and working through the lightening holes in
the nose ribs. I decided to use aluminum lines in this location. If
installed correctly, they should last many years with no trouble. I used the
rubber lines for the rest of the system where they are easier to replace.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Nearly done.
do not archive.
Message 90
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/31/04 8:00 PM, HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1) at frank.hinde@hp.com
wrote:
> About the only thing that can go wrong as far as I can see is if the
> alternator voltage regulator goes whacko and over volts
> everything....couldn't find good solution for that one.
>
> Frank
>
http://www.bandc.biz/cgi-bin/ez-catalog/cat_display.cgi?26X358218
Overvoltage protection.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Nearly done.
do not archive.
Message 91
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 3/31/04 10:01 PM, Dave Pepper at rockinrimranch@earthlink.net wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
> <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> One alternator and one voltage regulator? and no engine pump or gravity
> feed system! Trees! Even airliners have have total electrical failures, but
> engines keep running because they suck fuel from the tanks. A total
> electrical failure is not beyond the realm of possibilities.
>
> Dave
>
>
I've see a whole lot more mechanical fuel pump failures than total
electrical failures. Besides, if my plane has a total electrical failure, a
mechanical fuel pump won't do any good, my ignition systems won't function.
The typical electrical failure involves alternator or regulator failure,
then you have an hour or two to find an airport before you run out of
battery life. The only times I've ever heard of total electrical failures in
airliners is when they've run out of fuel and can't run any of their engine
driven generators, another case where engine driven fuel pumps are useless.
The main thing is to be aware of the risks and to plan your flight
accordingly.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Airframe construction complete.
Panel and engine installed.
Nearly done.
do not archive.
Message 92
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel selectors |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Sorry, it is not either/or there are several subjects that have been beat to
death.
Such as:
1. Use a fuel selector valve when using two wing tanks?
1a. How about using two fuel pumps and a selector valve also. (dont see a
reason for the selector valve). Switching pumps will control fuel flow.
2. Use an electric pump directly at the output of each wing tank and push
the fuel toward the engine (good idea)
2a. Why not use elect pumps at each tank controlling fuel flow by turning
one or the other off/on. (good idea).
2b. What if one tank is pumped dry, will that pump air into the suction
line of the engine driven pump. If you are pumping from both tanks the first
to run dry it is not likely to pump air. In addition the other will
continue to pump fuel with a pressure of between 4 and 8 lbs depending on
the specific pump. This will keep a solid supply of fuel at the inlet of the
engine driven pump and at that same pressure.
3. Dont use electric tank pumps, instead use a fuel selector valve to
control the flow and suck the fuel all the way forward with the engine
driven pump?
3a. Can work but can be subject to vapor lock if the engine compartment gets
real hot. Then suction can create vapor at the input to the fuel pump. Vapor
at the inlet and the pump will stop pumping fuel.
3b If you use this method don't have a BOTH position on the valve or the
first tank to run dry will cause the engine pump to stop pumping if the
Both position is selected.
4. Will either of these two options be more or less likely to contribute to
vapor lock (yes one will, sucking the fuel) with the engine driven pump and
haveing no tank pumps pushing.
5. Is vapor lock even a problem (yes it can be) For example heat soaking an
engine and within a short time a takeoff is attempted, Or long wait to take
off with the engine idling on a hot day.
6 What causes it? ( hot fuel and reduced pressure on it in the line feeding
the fuel pump) When fuel flashes to vapor the pump will stop pumping.. In
the above example it is probably not the fuel in the tanks that is hot but
the fuel in the engine compartment that is flowing very slowly or not at all
that is getting hot.
6a. Is there a solution in this case? Several things help, use 100LL not
auto fuel,.
Keep the engine compartment cool, when parking after a flight make sure the
engine compartment is ventilated to let the heat out, if you intend to
takeoff again soon.
Install a bleed line at the pump output side back to the fuel tank, cover
the fuel lines, direct a blast tube with fresh air onto the
gascolater-lines. etc. The bleed line on the pump outlet will port some fuel
back and keep a flow of cooler tank fuel flowing into the engine
compartment. This not only keep the fuel in the engine compartment cooler
it provides some cooling to the fuel pump itself.
7. Will a bleed line from the output of the engine driven fuel pump back to
the fuel tank resolve the vapor lock problem?" (answer yes it really helps)
but there are other measures too. Some mentioned above
8. Will putting fire sleeve on lines in the engine compartment help
eliminate Vapor lock, ( yes, to extent that they assist in keeping fuel
cool). Good idea anyway as insurance against engine compartment fire.
9 Not mentioned so far but should the wing tank pumps be in series with the
engine pump. In most cases I suggest YES. This will keep the pressure
higher at the engine driven pump input and will very helpful to eliminate
vapor lock.
There may be some cases where a failed engine driven pump will not pass fuel
to the engine so in that case the electric tank pumps will not be able to
provide a redundant way to supply fuel. Everything is a set of compromises
but when I hooked such a system up in my RV6 that is the way I did it.
I suppose there is more but for now the above is my take.
Tom in Wisconsin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
>
> Tom, would you please enlighten us as to which opinion is correct, then we
> can move on.
>
> Do not archive.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson"
> <tmarson@pressenter.com>
> >
> > Seems like the sum total of all this is a good short article in Sport
> Pilot.
> >
> > Fuel starvation is a major problem with homebuilts and when the smoke
> > clears the answers and not too complex. But boy there are lots of
> "opinions"
> > that are not correct. Seems like lots of people "hear" someting and
accept
> > it as fact without enough personal thought and evaluation.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel selectors
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> > >
> > > The conversation has me convinced. IF you are pumping from 2 sources
> and
> > > one goes dry you will pump air. BUT if you have a pump pumping from a
> > single
> > > source then you are go to go until you pump it dry. If you have two
> tanks
> > > and use two pumps then you are good to go. One pump, two tanks and you
> > have
> > > a problem.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
>
>
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