Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:43 AM - construction order (john butterfield)
2. 11:24 AM - Re: 601 XL rear ribs (Joemotis@aol.com)
3. 12:10 PM - Re: 601 XL rear ribs (Ken Szewc)
4. 04:00 PM - Bad Back (Jim)
5. 05:31 PM - Re: Bad Back (Larry McFarland)
6. 05:47 PM - Re: Bad Back (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
7. 06:22 PM - Re: 601 XL rear ribs (Ray Montagne)
8. 06:33 PM - N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with a Jabiru 3300. (xl)
9. 06:58 PM - Re: N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with a Jabiru 3300. (wizard-24@juno.com)
10. 07:02 PM - Re: Bad Back (wizard-24@juno.com)
11. 07:21 PM - Re: N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with a Jabiru 3300. (Al Young)
12. 07:40 PM - Rudder cemtering and pressures (Walt Cannon)
13. 07:57 PM - Re: Static location for 601 (Ron DeWees)
14. 08:19 PM - Re: Rudder cemtering and pressures (ZSMITH3rd@aol.com)
15. 08:56 PM - Cortec primer? (Kevin W Bonds)
16. 09:06 PM - Re: Re: Static location for 601 (Randy Stout)
17. 11:51 PM - Re: N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | construction order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: john butterfield <jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
Hi list:
Thanks for all the responses regarding my question.
FYI the vast majority suggested tail, wings, fuse.
That is what i will do.
thanks again
john butterfield
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL rear ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Greetings listers
When the I try to align the rear ribs on the centerline of the front flange
to the pre drilled holes on the spar, to keep the centerline aligned on the top
and bottom of the nose ribs and rear ribs it is almost 4MM to the radius side
of the rear rib front flange off. The nose rib is set into position by the L
angle and their is no adjustment on that and the rivet centerline on the rear
rib front flange ends up almost into the corner of the flange. Naturally, the
prints show the F and RR ribs in perfect alignment. Anybody else with this
issue and what was the resolve? The photo guides, again, do not help at all. This
issue deals with NR 1 and RR 1; have not gone any farther. My biggest concern
is that the rear channel pre drilled holes will be way off also and the ribs
will not set square to the spar. Or am I worrying to much and just keep the
centerlines on the top and bottom ribs as close as I can and not worry?
Thanks to all
Joe Motis
Cursing on wings
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL rear ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc <szewc@direcway.com>
Joe
Well it sounds like you definitely have a Zenith Kit.
I am almost finished with my 701 and had many similar issues to the one you
described below. When building from a kit one must put aside some of the
perfectionist in ourselves and make due the best we can (unless safety is a
concern). As long as the edge distances are fine, I would keep the
centerlines as close as possible to the middle and move on. Don't worry I
think the cursing is in the plans some where, next to the L angle it was the
most used part in my kit.
701SP 912S (N701SZ reserved) 99.95% done
>
> Greetings listers
> When the I try to align the rear ribs on the centerline of the front
flange
> to the pre drilled holes on the spar, to keep the centerline aligned on
the top
> and bottom of the nose ribs and rear ribs it is almost 4MM to the radius
side
> of the rear rib front flange off. The nose rib is set into position by the
L
> angle and their is no adjustment on that and the rivet centerline on the
rear
> rib front flange ends up almost into the corner of the flange. Naturally,
the
> prints show the F and RR ribs in perfect alignment. Anybody else with this
> issue and what was the resolve? The photo guides, again, do not help at
all. This
> issue deals with NR 1 and RR 1; have not gone any farther. My biggest
concern
> is that the rear channel pre drilled holes will be way off also and the
ribs
> will not set square to the spar. Or am I worrying to much and just keep
the
> centerlines on the top and bottom ribs as close as I can and not worry?
> Thanks to all
> Joe Motis
> Cursing on wings
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim" <211jbmm@cablespeed.com>
I have a bad back that limits the amount of bending that I can do. Bending in a
position like that required to work on a car engine for any length of time is
now out of the question. I have built a small aircraft in the past (wooden Minimax)
and know that many a strange position is required to complete the task.
Only when covering the wings on my Minimax did I have to spend great amounts
of time bent in the "no-no" position. What kind of problems do you think that
I would have trying to take on an XL? Is it doable?
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Jim,
I'd decide where this work needed to be done and put a tracked sling and
trolley
overhead of that area and hang from a chest sling to lower the pressure on
your lower
back while working. Putting your work tables on casters would assist the
movement
as well. There's always an amount of the overhanging needed to do the
riveting and layout
but this type of solution has been used by others.
Larry McFarland (601HDS moved to the airport hangar)
@ www.macsmachine.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Bad Back
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim" <211jbmm@cablespeed.com>
>
> I have a bad back that limits the amount of bending that I can do. Bending
in a position like that required to work on a car engine for any length of
time is now out of the question. I have built a small aircraft in the past
(wooden Minimax) and know that many a strange position is required to
complete the task. Only when covering the wings on my Minimax did I have to
spend great amounts of time bent in the "no-no" position. What kind of
problems do you think that I would have trying to take on an XL? Is it
doable?
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
One of the cures for this problem is the work table.
Even if you have a perfect back and workout with weights daily, standing in a
half-stooped knuckle-dragging crouch is NOT comfortable.
Suggest you make the work table the height of your elbows.
This may look too high, but try it. You can always cut the legs off.
Zed/701/R912/9x% do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL rear ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 4/9/04 11:23 AM, "Joemotis@aol.com" <Joemotis@aol.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
>
> Anybody else with this
> issue and what was the resolve?
I had a similar problem where one of the rear ribs was manufactured too
short. I called ZAC to inquire if cutting off the rear flange and riveting
L Angle in place would be appropriate. Nick indicated that this would be
OK. He offered to send the angle material or a new rib. I declined as I
had angle stock on hand. Took just a few minutes to fix...
If you would like me to send you a photo, please advise...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with a Jabiru |
3300.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Hello all!
I flew out of AWO. The takeoff was exciting - 633Z floated off the
ground. I eased the stick back. The elevator has *lots* of authority
and I quickly released pressure. I climbed at 100mph at about 700fpm
to 3000ft and circled the airfield. I needed full right aileron trim
to fly fairly straight hands off. In my 4th oval around the field I
entered the crosswind and settled into the pattern. I trimmed for the
approach and N633Z returned to the ground nicely. N633Z now has 0.5hrs
on the tach.
Whew! It was one of the most intense experiences that I've had.
(Primarily because it was the first time that I've test flown an aircraft.)
Once off the ground I had to fly the plane and land. It was a handful
with the sensitive elevator and bad bank trim - until I got the feel of
it. I learned enough during my circuits over the field to know how 633Z
would handle during landing. The EAA flight advisor program and technical
advisor program helped me a lot. The goal of the first flight is to land
the airplane safely. Thanks EAA (especially Jim + Geoff Chapter 26, Seattle).
And thanks to Marvin, my FAA designated Airworthiness Inspector. And thanks
to my wife Belle, a ground observer + Audin my designated first flight
photographer.
Now that I know what to expect, the second flight should go more smoothly
from the start! And I'll have the trim adjusted better for that one.
See an earlier photo of N633Z at:
http://www.eaa.org/homebuilders/list/Zenith%20Zodiac%20CH%20601%20XL_Edwards.asp
I may put some first flight pictures on the web after the dust settles.
Whoooowie!!!!!!!!!
Joe Edwards
N633Z @ AWO
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with a |
Jabiru 3300.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
Mega-congrats Joe! I look forward to that day for myself. Did you do any
high speed taxi runs before lifting off for the first time? Or was the
temptation just too great? :)
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
As one that often suffers from the occasional flare-up of a bad back due
to herniated discs, I have to warn you.....there is a need to become
somewhat of a contortionist in the later building stages. There's no way
to avoid having to crawl into that rear fuselage or behind the instrument
panel to install something you forgot to do earlier, or to add something
you feel you want. This is not to say that it is impossible -- quite the
contrary, if you plan ahead (with bad back in mind), you can certainly
handle it. Also, you could recruit help for those instances where your
back prevents you from doing it yourself.
Oh, and don't forget about the seats....lots and lots of temperfoam. :)
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with a |
Jabiru 3300.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Joe- Great news of your 1st flight!! Congratulations and have many more
great flights ahead! Al Young- 601XL 80% done- 40% to go.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Rudder cemtering and pressures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Walt Cannon" <grnlake@earthlink.net>
All,
I know this topic has been brought up before, but here I go again. I have
about 15 hours on my CH701 and love every aspect of the handling qualities
except the feel of the rudder in the air. Pitch and roll inputs are nice,
smooth, and linear through the stick. But I find the rudder to have a
miserable feel in the air. There seems to be just enough binding in the
system coupled with the "V" shaped notch to center the landing gear that I
find it almost impossible to initiate and roll out of a nice smoothly
coordinated turn.
Has anyone dealt with this issue in a way you found effective? I thought I
would just fly awhile to see it I had fit things to tightly and it would
loosen up a bit. I have also applied some grease to the strut, bearing and
riding surface of the "V" notch, but this seems to have little effect.
It is not terrible, but I know others must have found a way to deal with
this to give it the same nice feel as the other controls.
Walt Cannon
N701WD
Seattle WA
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Static location for 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi learned gang!
I searched the archives and read 82 messages about static port location and
there wasn't any agreement on location. I had planned on using a "Y"
adapter and putting static fittings on opposite sides behind and above the
rear of the wing. Anybody used this location and had any problems? Several
suggested a port out each side just forward of the instrument panel. Seems
like this would get disturbed air from the prop. If it works it would be a
lot easier to install than from the rear.
Ideas, experiences?
Thanks
Ron DeWees
601 Hds in final birthing phase
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder cemtering and pressures |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: ZSMITH3rd@aol.com
Not to the flight stage yet, but others have mentioned previously that the
V-notch is not necessary, or at most just needs to be very slight. Reasoning
behind this is that everyone thinks you'd have the nosegear pointing ahead at
takeoff and landing anyway. Makes sense. After reading those comments I
removed most of the V simply because in the flight condition (nose wheel off the
ground) I found turning the nose wheel required too much pressure on pedals.
Zed/701/R921/9x% do not archive
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Kevin W Bonds" <kbonds@worldshare.net>
What is the latest on the primer debate? I have read all the archives and have
determined that I want 373 in green--thin with hardware grade denatured alcohol.
Where can I get some in small quantity (quart or 1 gallon)?.
Kevin Bonds
Nashville, Tn
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Static location for 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
I bought a pitot tube that has the static port built in. So far, I'm real
happy with it. I put it on the underside of the wing, away from the prop
wash. Fairly simple.
Randy Stout
CH 601 HD
n282rs@sbcglobal.net
http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Static location for 601
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>
> Hi learned gang!
> I searched the archives and read 82 messages about static port location
and
> there wasn't any agreement on location. I had planned on using a "Y"
> adapter and putting static fittings on opposite sides behind and above the
> rear of the wing. Anybody used this location and had any problems?
Several
> suggested a port out each side just forward of the instrument panel.
Seems
> like this would get disturbed air from the prop. If it works it would be
a
> lot easier to install than from the rear.
> Ideas, experiences?
> Thanks
>
> Ron DeWees
> 601 Hds in final birthing phase
>
> do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: N633Z's first flight was today! It's a CH601XL with |
a Jabiru 3300.
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Mike,
I decided not to do fast taxi tests.
I read about and discussed this issue.
High speed taxi testing is risky.
I built a plane that has >200 of type flying.
It's characteristics are well known.
When I pushed the throttle forward to take off I headed off to the left
of the runway. I brought 633Z back towards the center line and realized
that it was ready to liftoff. A glance at the airspeed indicator confirmed
that. I let 633Z come of the pavement and pulled on the stick - too much.
But I was ready to fly and given that I was unfamiliar with how the plane
would behave if I cut the throttle I went up. I used my time circling the
field to get comfortable. And I had no problem in the pattern and
establishing a good attitude for landing.
Given my experience I think that I made the correct decision.
I've heard stories of those who fast taxied and tried to keep the plane
on the ground - with bad results. I think that I would have really had my
hands full with fast taxi testing. It's hard to judge when to push the
throttle to idle. I got comfortable with the handling at 3000ft. I was
not trained to do high speed taxi testing I was trained to fly. I did do
some high speed taxis in Cessnas, but they handle differently than a
Zodiac. I decided that I did not have the experience needed and that the
risks outweighed the benefits.
I was ready to abort the takeoff if necessary. Once I left the ground
I concentrated on getting a good climb attitude. As the flight progressed
I could think about other things too. And I was glad to be high enough
that I did have to worry about hitting anything. It reminded me of my
first flights as a student. Thankfully, I spent a lot of time practicing
in the AWO pattern and I could keep from being overwelmed.
In any case if you decide to do fast taxi testing, I'm told that you
should be prepared to fly. High speed taxi tests can end up airborne.
Your high speed taxi test may be a first flight.
Cheers, Joe
N633Z @ AWO
On Fri, 9 Apr 2004 wizard-24@juno.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>
> Mega-congrats Joe! I look forward to that day for myself. Did you do any
> high speed taxi runs before lifting off for the first time? Or was the
> temptation just too great? :)
>
> Mike Fortunato
> 601XL
>
> do not archive
>
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