Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Welding (Jari Kaija)
2. 01:48 AM - Re: Marking and labeling for Airworthiness (Randy Stout)
3. 07:40 AM - Re: Suzuki Engine Conversion, CH701 (tongaloa)
4. 08:39 AM - Re: Tail light (royt.or@netzero.com)
5. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Tail light (Chuck Deiterich)
6. 12:31 PM - Wynne sightings (james dankovich)
7. 01:05 PM - N569Z Crash ()
8. 01:35 PM - Re: N569Z Crash (Charles Sonberg)
9. 03:21 PM - Re: Marking and labeling for Airworthiness (Wayne Cahoon @ Aircraft Engravers)
10. 03:45 PM - Re: N569Z Crash (Dan knezacek)
11. 06:57 PM - 601 XL nose skin spar rivet line (Mark Stauffer)
12. 07:03 PM - Re: N569Z Crash (Larry Martin)
13. 07:23 PM - Re: N569Z Crash (Ray Montagne)
14. 08:12 PM - Re: N569Z Crash (wizard-24@juno.com)
15. 08:16 PM - Re: 601 XL nose skin spar rivet line (wizard-24@juno.com)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jari Kaija" <jari.kaija@pp.inet.fi>
>Can send you pics of my project if you want.
Please, send.
-Jari
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Marking and labeling for Airworthiness |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@sbcglobal.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Marking and labeling for Airworthiness
Larry
I picked up some paint markers from the local office supply. Red, green ,
yellow, and white. Just mark the glass on the instruments according to the
chart on the ZAC web site. One of these days, I might get the stickers thay
sell at AS&S or Wicks. For the labels, I used a label maker that can be
bought at the same place. I got silver tape with black lettering. You can
program most of them to draw a box around the label. If I decide I want
something that looks better, I'll just scrape them off and have something
made. The guy I share a hangar with, used some clear Avery lables and
printed them on a laser printer
For the fuel tanks, I used the white paint marker to write the grade and
quantity near the fuel cap. My DAR didn't have any problem with it.
Randy Stout - San Antonio TX
CH601HD N282RS
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21
n282rs@sbcglobal.net
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Hi guys,
> There's a point when you decide to fly off the 40 hours
> before formal paint and finish (the next year) and then
> consider a need for marking things like fuel type and gallons
> at filler points, latch operations, and externalized detail for safety
> or clarity as required by the FAA in preparation for the Airworthiness
> inspection.
>
> I'd use a permanent ink marker if it were up to me for contemporary
> prepaint needs, but would like to hear what others have done about
> this problem and how fussy the requirements are for airspeed range
markings
> that are going to be more an estimate than exactitude.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS (at the airport)
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Suzuki Engine Conversion, CH701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: tongaloa <tongaloa@alltel.net>
On the topic of single plug engine reliability and electronic ignitions,
perhaps it would make sense to install a switch and LED on the panel
making a display of diagnostic codes available for comparison against
the checklist as part of preflight or runup. Say one cylinder has been
misfiring or running too lean. You'd know before your next venture into
the air. -bob
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com
The tail light socket supplied from Zenith in my kit uses a single filament bulb
with TWO contacts on the BOTTAM. The two contacts of the bulb go to either side
of the filament. The outside base of the bulb is not connected to the filament.
Automotive/Motorcycle bulbs generally have one or two contacts on the bottom of
the bulb. Each base contact is one side of a filament. The outside of the base
is usually ground, for the other side of the filament(s). The bottom of the
Zenith supplied bulb LOOKS like a standard dual filament bulb.
A single filament 1156 bulb has a single contact on the bottom. This single contact
will short the two contacts (Power and ground) in the socket supplied from
Zenith. [Wonder how I know ?? :-( ] The bulb supplied from Zenith is a 1076.
It is available from auto part stores. It is NOT an airplane specific part.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 187.7hrs,
270 landings
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Roy,
You are exactly correct about the two contacts on the ZAC supplied tail
bulb. Also the filament of a 12 V bulb will read as a short (one ohm or
less) on an ohm meter. It only has a higher resistance when it is on, that
is, the resistance goes up with temperature.
Chuck D.
----- Original Message -----
From: <royt.or@netzero.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Tail light
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: royt.or@netzero.com
>
>
> The tail light socket supplied from Zenith in my kit uses a single
filament bulb with TWO contacts on the BOTTAM. The two contacts of the bulb
go to either side of the filament. The outside base of the bulb is not
connected to the filament.
>
> Automotive/Motorcycle bulbs generally have one or two contacts on the
bottom of the bulb. Each base contact is one side of a filament. The outside
of the base is usually ground, for the other side of the filament(s). The
bottom of the Zenith supplied bulb LOOKS like a standard dual filament bulb.
>
> A single filament 1156 bulb has a single contact on the bottom. This
single contact will short the two contacts (Power and ground) in the socket
supplied from Zenith. [Wonder how I know ?? :-( ] The bulb supplied from
Zenith is a 1076. It is available from auto part stores. It is NOT an
airplane specific part.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
> N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
187.7hrs, 270 landings
>
>
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: james dankovich <jdankochiro@yahoo.com>
All: Just got home from SnF; had never been so was a totally AWESOME experience.
There was a constant crowd around the WW 601 at the corner of the Zenith
area. I was fortunate enough to meet Gus Warren and his wife, william and Grace,
and the Heintz family. The 601/ Corvair, called ZenVair, is awesome...I took
pics , will post if I can figure out how, but suffice it to say it is well
put toghther ( an understatement) ... apparently WW did not, at the last minute
, get FAA approval to fly, so he trucked it there...has performed taxi tests,
and is expecting great things. He...and the Zenith people, are nothing but
helpful... WW spent a lot of time with me and my wife explaining the engine,
the setup, and were wonderful to people with little engine experience... as was
Gus, and Grace, and Chris Heintz... So, the plane is awesome as are the people,
and we still have to wait a little longer for flight ccharacteristics. But
I Am sure we can believe what he says...he is one
of the
good guys (as are the others mentioned)....I purchased my 601 partially completed
from another builder, so ZAC got nothing from me but questions...and a refund
request for a cowling for the 0-235...and they gave me a credit for the purchase
price, and I purchased it from the previous owner!!! That is service!!!
---------------------------------
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
I just wanted to let everyone on the list know that I am still alive and will fly
again soon if the FAA will allow me to. I know that a few of you read about
my accident in the news papers or saw it on the news. Yes, I did crash my CH300
on Friday, April 16th. The accident was 100% my fault and I strongly believe
that if I had not been flying such a sturdy aircraft that I would not be
here today. I still do not know why I switched from my left fuel tank to my right
fuel tank when I was flying the pattern. However, I did and when I did I
did not get the fuel selector locked into postion and as a result I starved the
engine of fuel. By the time I lost engine power and realized that I needed
to switch back to my left fuel tank it was too late. I was already too low and
was not able to start my engine in time to avoid the trees. Yes, I know, I
should have been high enough to glide to the field, I should have not switched
fuel tanks, etc etc. I made mistakes that no pilot should ever make, but at
least I am still alive to fly again another day and I hope to help other pilots
to avoid the mistakes that I have made.
I am going to take a few weeks off from my project to heal, but rest assured, I
WILL finish my CH640 and I WILL fly again soon!
Thank you all for your support and fly safely!
Jeff Paden
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Charles Sonberg" <2408s@cox-internet.com>
One thing that truly impresses me about this list is the honesty of people
involved. Many (and perhaps average people) try their best to blame someone
else. Such as the fuel selector was improperly made so it didn't lock, ect
ect ect. Thank you for the honest appraisal of your accident and the people
that have posted in the past. You make this a better world and helps
reinstate my faith in people. Glad to hear you are ok.
Chuck
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
I just wanted to let everyone on the list know that I am still alive and
will fly again soon if the FAA will allow me to. I know that a few of you
read about my accident in the news papers or saw it on the news. Yes, I did
crash my CH300 on Friday, April 16th. The accident was 100% my fault and I
strongly believe that if I had not been flying such a sturdy aircraft that I
would not be here today. I still do not know why I switched from my left
fuel tank to my right fuel tank when I was flying the pattern. However, I
did and when I did I did not get the fuel selector locked into postion and
as a result I starved the engine of fuel. By the time I lost engine power
and realized that I needed to switch back to my left fuel tank it was too
late. I was already too low and was not able to start my engine in time to
avoid the trees. Yes, I know, I should have been high enough to glide to
the field, I should have not switched fuel tanks, etc etc. I made mistakes
that no pilo!
t should ever make, but at least I am still alive to fly again another day
and I hope to help other pilots to avoid the mistakes that I have made.
I am going to take a few weeks off from my project to heal, but rest
assured, I WILL finish my CH640 and I WILL fly again soon!
Thank you all for your support and fly safely!
Jeff Paden
Message 9
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| From: | "Wayne Cahoon @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Marking and labeling for Airworthiness |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Wayne Cahoon @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net>
Randy said: For the fuel tanks, I used the white paint marker to write the
grade and
quantity near the fuel cap. My DAR didn't have any problem with it.
There is a different solution to your problem, however it is more expensive
than your way and more permanent also. Have your fuel caps engraved by
Aircraft Engravers. See our web page at
http://engravers.net/aircraft/fuel_caps.htm. With some paints and most
decals the fuel will attack them and they will be a constant source of
maintenance and/or replacement. However, we engrave the text to .020" deep
and fill them with a two part paint, then they are filled flush to the
surface with a two part clear paint for a maintenance free labeling job. The
price is $20.00 or $25.00 depending on what you want engraved.
Wayne Cahoon
Aircraft Engravers
(860) 653-2780
(860) 653-7324 Fax
http://engravers.net/
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" <dknezace@bconnex.net>
Jeff,
I'm really glad you're OK. I too survived a similar crash except it wasn't
a homebuilt (C-185 on floats). I ran one tank dry and it quit too low to
switch.
Is the plane fixable or is it totalled?
How far along are you on the 640?
Dan
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601 XL nose skin spar rivet line |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" <mark.stauffer@comcast.net>
A question for fellow XL builders.
Marking and drilling bottom side of nose skin - front spar rivet line:
1. How many rivets (if any) did you place I/B from NR #1 to the I/B edge of
the Bottom Spar Angle? I can't seem to find any reference other than "Plan
for a rivet at intersection of rib flange center line with rivet line in
spar - A5 pitch 40" (Drawing 6-W-8)
2. How far out did you go O/B of NR#8? Again there's no guidance. Did you
place the last rivet 10mm from the O/B edge of the spar tip and then pitch
the rest at 40 back to NR #8 (also adding the 3 rivets on each side of NR
#8)?
3. Did you find yourselves "adjusting" and compromising with the front spar
rivet line. If I place the rivet line 10 mm from the aft edge of the nose
skin then I'm really blowing the edge distance for the leading edge of the
bottom rear skin. I've managed to keep a 2 x rivet diameter edge distance
(10/32 or 8mm) but was wondering if anyone else experienced the same
problem. My skins are cut correctly and the wing is jigged correctly.
Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Mark
Mark Stauffer
601XL Tail finished, rear fuselage finished, back on wing
Odenton, MD
Do not archive
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Gas tank switching or the lack of it seems to me an all too often
re-occurring problem. I'm thinking that even being able to switch tanks is
unnecessary. If you read the NTSB reports, you see that lots of times after
a crash they find that the pilot was on the empty tank, while the other tank
had plenty of fuel.
I'm fishing for opinions. I'm seriously thinking of direct runs to a small
header tank on the firewall and all tanks with balance tubes between them
would be the best bet. It would keep your weight even between both wings.
Seems to me that it's just a pain in the rear with more things to go wrong.
I'm beginning to think it's just one of those "we always done it that way"
things with no real logic behind it. I have never in my 40+ years of
driving run out of gas in a vehicle, why would I think I would in an
aircraft?
On one of my Gyros, I had two 11 gallon tanks, one on each side of the cabin
with two 3/8 balance tubes between them and the bottom of each tank fed the
fuel pumps. I always use dual pumps. They have moving parts, and things
with moving parts fail at some point in time. I had a full length sight
gauge on the outside so I could do a pre-flight and a regular electronic
gauge on the dash. I never had a problem.
Maybe there's something I don't know, but would like to know the thoughts
you guys have.
Unless some one can tell me why I must be able to switch tanks, I'm gonna
box my switching stuff up and send it back. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan knezacek" <dknezace@bconnex.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" <dknezace@bconnex.net>
>
> Jeff,
>
> I'm really glad you're OK. I too survived a similar crash except it
wasn't
> a homebuilt (C-185 on floats). I ran one tank dry and it quit too low to
> switch.
>
> Is the plane fixable or is it totalled?
>
> How far along are you on the 640?
>
> Dan
>
>
---
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 4/21/04 7:02 PM, "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net> wrote:
> \ I'm seriously thinking of direct runs to a small
> header tank on the firewall and all tanks with balance tubes between them
> would be the best bet.
Gonna be tough to get it filled up. The tank being filled will drain to the
emptier tanks...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> I have never in my 40+ years of driving run out of gas in a vehicle
To me, that's the key. You have an awareness when driving a car that
you've been driving so many miles, that you start thinking it's time to
fill up. If you keep that same awareness while flying, then this won't be
a problem. Flying a plane is a lot like driving a car, although
admittedly much less forgiving. BEFORE each flight, what happened to the
idea of advance pre-planning where you figure your fuel requirements
ahead of time? I've never left the ground on a cross country flight
without having everything mapped out, nor should any pilot. No matter how
you design your fuel system, there's no automatic, no-brainer way to make
it foolproof.
And by the way, I agree with the other person that admired the crash
victim for being forthright with their mistake. So that others may
learn....
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL nose skin spar rivet line |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
Mark,
Unfortunately I'm not at the hangar where I can check all the
measurements on my plane, but if no one else provides an answer, I'll
make it a point to find out. However, the real bit of advice is that you
can never go wrong adding an extra rivet where needed. So if the pitch
doesn't work out per plan, then simply add another one (keeping minimum
edge distances in mind of course). I used to rack my brain over the
omissions of ZAC's plans, until I finally figured out and understood the
concept of the whole thing. You'll end up making adjustments throughout
your project when it comes to rivet placement.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:56:18 -0400 "Mark Stauffer"
<mark.stauffer@comcast.net> writes:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer"
> <mark.stauffer@comcast.net>
>
> A question for fellow XL builders.
>
> Marking and drilling bottom side of nose skin - front spar rivet
> line:
>
> 1. How many rivets (if any) did you place I/B from NR #1 to the I/B
> edge of
> the Bottom Spar Angle? I can't seem to find any reference other than
> "Plan
> for a rivet at intersection of rib flange center line with rivet
> line in
> spar - A5 pitch 40" (Drawing 6-W-8)
>
> 2. How far out did you go O/B of NR#8? Again there's no guidance.
> Did you
> place the last rivet 10mm from the O/B edge of the spar tip and then
> pitch
> the rest at 40 back to NR #8 (also adding the 3 rivets on each side
> of NR
> #8)?
>
> 3. Did you find yourselves "adjusting" and compromising with the
> front spar
> rivet line. If I place the rivet line 10 mm from the aft edge of the
> nose
> skin then I'm really blowing the edge distance for the leading edge
> of the
> bottom rear skin. I've managed to keep a 2 x rivet diameter edge
> distance
> (10/32 or 8mm) but was wondering if anyone else experienced the
> same
> problem. My skins are cut correctly and the wing is jigged
> correctly.
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