---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/22/04: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:23 AM - Wiring Diagram ... (Bima, Martin) 2. 07:42 AM - Re: N569Z Crash (Larry Martin) 3. 08:02 AM - Re: N569Z Crash (HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)) 4. 08:42 AM - Re: Wiring Diagram ... (Larry McFarland) 5. 08:52 AM - Re: Wiring Diagram ... (Bill Steer) 6. 01:22 PM - 601XL brake line routing (mike honer) 7. 01:38 PM - Canadian supplier for aluminum welding flux??? (Bima, Martin) 8. 06:06 PM - Re: 601XL brake line routing (Bryan Martin) 9. 06:43 PM - Re: Wiring Diagram ... (Frank Jones) 10. 07:58 PM - Re: N569Z Crash (Jim Fosse) 11. 07:58 PM - Re: Suzuki Engine Conversion, CH701 (Jim Fosse) 12. 09:02 PM - Header tanks, balance lines,etc (George Swinford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Wiring Diagram ... From: "Bima, Martin" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" Hello List, I am looking for some typical wiring and protection diagrams for an aircraft electrical system including Battery Alternator Ignition Radios Lights Etc. Thanks Martin Bima Winnipeg, Canada STOL-Vair www.autobahn.mb.ca/~bima ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:51 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" The only thing I see is that it might be a little slower, depends on the size of your balance tubes. Put a couple of 3/8" balance tubes and it will equalize pretty quick. I just thinking out loud. I haven't really decided yet. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ray Montagne" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne > > On 4/21/04 7:02 PM, "Larry Martin" wrote: > > > \ I'm seriously thinking of direct runs to a small > > header tank on the firewall and all tanks with balance tubes between them > > would be the best bet. > > Gonna be tough to get it filled up. The tank being filled will drain to the > emptier tanks... > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > Cupertino, CA > > =========================================================================== > > Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL > Build Status: Rudder completed > Elevator Completed > Stabilizer Completed > Flaps Completed > Ailerons Completed > Right Wing Completed > Right Wing Tip Completed > Left Wing Completed > Right Wing Tip Completed > Fuselage Under Construction > > NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include > the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not > be viewable by me. > > =========================================================================== > > --- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:00 AM PST US From: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash --> Zenith-List message posted by: "HINDE,FRANK (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" I have two wing tanks and NO selector...I simply switch pumps to switch tanks...I ALWAYS have both pumps running when in the pattern. Even if one tank is sucked dry it still works flawlessly because the other pump will barly pump air and it simply vents through the carb float bowl anyway. My pumps are right at the outlet of the tanks....This avoids (almost) all possibility of vapour lock. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Gas tank switching or the lack of it seems to me an all too often re-occurring problem. I'm thinking that even being able to switch tanks is unnecessary. If you read the NTSB reports, you see that lots of times after a crash they find that the pilot was on the empty tank, while the other tank had plenty of fuel. I'm fishing for opinions. I'm seriously thinking of direct runs to a small header tank on the firewall and all tanks with balance tubes between them would be the best bet. It would keep your weight even between both wings. Seems to me that it's just a pain in the rear with more things to go wrong. I'm beginning to think it's just one of those "we always done it that way" things with no real logic behind it. I have never in my 40+ years of driving run out of gas in a vehicle, why would I think I would in an aircraft? On one of my Gyros, I had two 11 gallon tanks, one on each side of the cabin with two 3/8 balance tubes between them and the bottom of each tank fed the fuel pumps. I always use dual pumps. They have moving parts, and things with moving parts fail at some point in time. I had a full length sight gauge on the outside so I could do a pre-flight and a regular electronic gauge on the dash. I never had a problem. Maybe there's something I don't know, but would like to know the thoughts you guys have. Unless some one can tell me why I must be able to switch tanks, I'm gonna box my switching stuff up and send it back. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan knezacek" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" > --> > > Jeff, > > I'm really glad you're OK. I too survived a similar crash except it wasn't > a homebuilt (C-185 on floats). I ran one tank dry and it quit too low > to switch. > > Is the plane fixable or is it totalled? > > How far along are you on the 640? > > Dan > > --- advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:13 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wiring Diagram ... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Wiring Diagram ... > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" > > Hello List, > > I am looking for some typical wiring and protection diagrams for an > aircraft electrical system including Bima, Taka a look at the AeroElectric Connection at www.aeroelectric.com and then buy "The AeroElectric Connection written by Bob Nuckolls. It offers a lot of diagrams and considerable info on wiring aircraft, techniques, etc. A bargan at $35. There is a forum on the Matronic page which includes a lot of what goes on electrical too. Larry McFarland - 601hds ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:57 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wiring Diagram ... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" Do you know about the Aeroelectric list on Matronics? Bob Nuckolls is the expert for this kind of thing. You can either get his book, which is invaluable, or download some diagrams from his web site - www.aeroelectric.com. There's also a publication that's rather out of date, titled "Aircraft Electrical Systems" by Jeppesen. There are also some books listed in the ACS catalog. Hope this helps. Bill > I am looking for some typical wiring and protection diagrams for an > aircraft electrical system including ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:39 PM PST US From: "mike honer" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL brake line routing --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" I need a little help visualizing the routing of the brake lines. Can anyone help? Mike ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:55 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Canadian supplier for aluminum welding flux??? From: "Bima, Martin" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" Hello All, Does anyone know of a Canadian supplier for the same Aluminum welding flux sold by The Tin Man? Thanks, Martin Bima Winnipeg, Canada STOL-Vair www.autobahn.mb.ca/~bima ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:54 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL brake line routing From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 4/22/04 4:22 PM, mike honer at amhoner@rtmc.net wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" > > I need a little help visualizing the routing of the brake lines. Can anyone > help? > > Mike I used 90 degree street Ls from the front side of the cylinder facing up and attached the lines to the diagonal firewall stiffener ahead of the pedals. I ran them down the stiffener, under the nosewhweel steering rods, through the tunnel beneath the rudder cables to the back side of the seat frames. Then along the back side of the seat frames to the point where they exit the fuselage just behind the steel landing gear bracket and above the lower longeron. This will put the exit point just below the wing. I drilled and tapped some holes on the back side of the landing gear for straps to hold the hose in place. Some photos: http://home.comcast.net/~bryanmmartin/brake_cylinders.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~bryanmmartin/wing_connections.jpg -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Nearly done. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:16 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Wiring Diagram ... --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Martin, I've got one at http://www.iprules.com/plane/wiring.jpg if you are interested. If you like I can mail you my Visio version of this. Frank Jones Do not archive >I am looking for some typical wiring and protection diagrams for an >aircraft electrical system including >Martin Bima ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:57 PM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" I have had similar thoughts on a small header tank but had not thought about the balance lines, which make a lot of sense. How would these be positioned? Also, wouldn't the header tank eliminate the need for the pump at each tank? Jim Fosse CH701/Rudder Complete/Working Firewall Goreville, IL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Gas tank switching or the lack of it seems to me an all too often re-occurring problem. I'm thinking that even being able to switch tanks is unnecessary. If you read the NTSB reports, you see that lots of times after a crash they find that the pilot was on the empty tank, while the other tank had plenty of fuel. I'm fishing for opinions. I'm seriously thinking of direct runs to a small header tank on the firewall and all tanks with balance tubes between them would be the best bet. It would keep your weight even between both wings. Seems to me that it's just a pain in the rear with more things to go wrong. I'm beginning to think it's just one of those "we always done it that way" things with no real logic behind it. I have never in my 40+ years of driving run out of gas in a vehicle, why would I think I would in an aircraft? On one of my Gyros, I had two 11 gallon tanks, one on each side of the cabin with two 3/8 balance tubes between them and the bottom of each tank fed the fuel pumps. I always use dual pumps. They have moving parts, and things with moving parts fail at some point in time. I had a full length sight gauge on the outside so I could do a pre-flight and a regular electronic gauge on the dash. I never had a problem. Maybe there's something I don't know, but would like to know the thoughts you guys have. Unless some one can tell me why I must be able to switch tanks, I'm gonna box my switching stuff up and send it back. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan knezacek" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: N569Z Crash > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" > > Jeff, > > I'm really glad you're OK. I too survived a similar crash except it wasn't > a homebuilt (C-185 on floats). I ran one tank dry and it quit too low to > switch. > > Is the plane fixable or is it totalled? > > How far along are you on the 640? > > Dan > > --- ==== ==== ==== ==== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:57 PM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki Engine Conversion, CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" Bill. It's automotive and the one I have been working with is www.bilsamaviation.com. You may or may not have caught my add-on to my original listing. Also, since I was a little lengthy in that msg the list may not have caught my inquiry about reduction ratios. The engine I am looking at has 6000 max rpm. Does anyone have recommendations or data on the best prop speed which should translate to the required reduction ratio? Jim Fosse ---- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cardell" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Suzuki Engine Conversion, CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bill Cardell Jim, Who makes that one? Is it car based or the Hayabusa bike engine? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fosse [mailto:jfosse1@shawneelink.net] Subject: Zenith-List: Suzuki Engine Conversion, CH701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" I've been looking at the 1300CC Suzuki conversion and it seems to have merit, e.g., electronic ignition, fuel injection, turbo charge compatible, 100 to 120 h.p. and 168 lbs. The one thing I'm concerned about is lack of dual ignition. Should this be a show stopper? I know that current state of the art systems are very reliable but I still have that uneasy feeling about a single ignition system. Comments would be appreciated. Jim Fosse Goreville, Illinois CH701/Rudder completed/Kit Received advertising on the Matronics Forums. ==== ==== ==== ==== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:18 PM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Zenith-List: Header tanks, balance lines,etc --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" Consider the Ercoupe fuel system: It has a shallow 6 gallon header tank feeding the updraft carb on a Continental C85 by gravity.The header tank is replenished by the engine driven pump which draws(!) fuel from both 8 gallon wing tanks and pumps it into the header tank. The wing tank feed lines are teed together and a balance line connects those 2 tanks. Excess fuel from the header tank is returned to one of the wing tanks. If the transfer pump quits you have about an hour's worth of fuel in the header tank, giving you plenty of time to decide what to do about it. This is a simple system with years of good history behind it. A Rotax or Stratus Subaru needs an electric pump (or pumps) to feed the carbs, and an electric fuel transfer pump. Gravity feed from the header to the engine pump(s) should eliminate any cavitation problem. Again, transfer pump failure will not be an immediate emergency. George