Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:11 AM - Canopy restraints (Larry McFarland)
2. 08:06 AM - Tricycle vs Taildragger (Dave & Darlene)
3. 09:18 AM - Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger (Thomas F Marson)
4. 10:13 AM - Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger (Larry McFarland)
5. 10:23 AM - Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger (Ray Montagne)
6. 10:23 AM - Re: front wheel bearing failure - CH601XL, stock Matco wheel (Brett)
7. 10:40 AM - Re: Spar Jig Problem (DEGlass1@aol.com)
8. 10:41 AM - 601XL Firewall (kit built) (W.R. \)
9. 10:57 AM - Re: 601XL Firewall (kit built) (DEGlass1@aol.com)
10. 11:03 AM - Re: 601XL Firewall (kit built) (Cdngoose)
11. 11:26 AM - Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger (Larry McFarland)
12. 11:39 AM - 601 XL fuel sender layout (Joemotis@aol.com)
13. 12:32 PM - Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger (Leo Gates)
14. 12:37 PM - Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger (Ray Montagne)
15. 02:01 PM - Re: 601XL Firewall (kit built) (wizard-24@juno.com)
16. 02:01 PM - Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout (wizard-24@juno.com)
17. 04:14 PM - Re: 601XL Firewall (kit built) (Lawrence Webber)
18. 04:39 PM - Re: Canopy restraints (Lawrence Webber)
19. 05:23 PM - Re: 601XL Firewall (kit built) (Dave Alberti)
20. 07:32 PM - Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
21. 07:40 PM - Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
22. 07:40 PM - Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
23. 10:02 PM - baggage locker (Geronimo423@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Canopy restraints |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi guys,
The 601 forward tilt canopy seems to react to
the wind in the up position and I've become concerned
that perhaps a tether from the rear to the seat area might
be necessary to constrain it in gusty conditions. It's also
a reach to lower when it's all the way up. Have any
of you put a retractible reel or cord on it to control or limit
its energy in windy conditions?
I'm very interested in ideas or solutions that might prevent
a canopy incident.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tricycle vs Taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
This will stir up the list I'm sure with all kinds of comments but I'm debating
with whether to go taildragger or tricycle gear in my XL. I'm still along way
to that stage but would like anyone's comments on this. My thoughts are as
follows.
(1) I really like the look of the tail dragger ( have liked this look since I was
a kid ).
(2) Less weight I presume with the taildragger
(3) Tricycle gear has better stability on the ground (taxiing).
(4) Tricycle gear is probably better ( more stable ) when taking off or landing
Does it really matter which way I go or is one way better than the other. I know
I'll need taildragger training but that's not an issue. I've talked to flyers
who say definitely go taildragger, I've also talked to some who say stay with
the tricycle. Are these people just scared of the taildragger or want a more
stable plane to taxi around. I sure would like thoughts on this. I don't
want this to be a place of argument between what people think is right. I just
want some opinions.
Dave
601Xl
Most form blocks made
Still collecting items etc.
1% done
99% to go
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
I takes a more competent pilot to land and takeoff in a taildragger ------
but I believe anyone who wants to develop that skill can do so. You will be
a better pilot when you have developed that skill.
Taildraggers is a little faster in level flight.
Resale value will be higher for the tricycle gear plane as more pilots will
be in the market to buy it. If resale is a valueable attribute, then built
the plane with a nose wheel.
I personally like taildraggers best. Tom Marson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Tricycle vs Taildragger
> -->
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Tricycle vs Taildragger
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
<dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
>I'm debating with whether to go taildragger or tricycle gear in my XL.
Dave,
Some fact, some opinion, but here goes;
The tri-gear sets level and offers a better seating view when taxiing.
Passengers will find they have to put their legs up a little more getting
onto the tri-gear wing. It's
much more awkward to exit the taildragger tho. Rough ground is handled
better by the tri-gear (larger wheels). Structurally, I like nose gear over
a tail wheel because there's less shock on a delicate airframe
canopy and the instruments, etc. The flare to landing should be about the
same. The tail dragger places everything at an aft tilt that requires a
good sense of where the canopy is and baggage that can roll will in the
stowage area. The taildragger, tho popular with many, is not a modern
design and seems relegated
to people trying to grab something of aviation's past. Surely speed with
this aircraft is not an issue.
> Does it really matter which way I go or is one way better than the other.
I just want some opinions.
> Dave
> 601Xl
It's still you're decision.
Larry McFarland 601HDS Tri-gear and taxiing this morning at 1.7 hours!
Do Not Archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 5/9/04 8:03 AM, "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
I wrestled with this too! The tail dragger also does not have the
interference drag that exists with tricycle landing gear. I had expected
that this would result in higher cruise speed by a query to ZAC resulted in
an answer that indicated that there is no difference in cruise speed.
All accounts I've heard of on the HD indicate that the tail dragger is
extremely docile - especially with the full flying rudder. I'm sure anyone
with tail dragger experience could handle it.
I'm still on the fence but am leaning toward the tricycle only because (1)
it came with my kit so I already have it, (2) the attitude gyro that I
already have is for a tricycle gear plane and (3) the insurance is higher on
the tail dragger.
Countering those arguments are that if the tail dragger has higher cruise
speed then the fuel economy would go up but even a significant increase in
fuel economy would not balance out the additional insurance cost.
BTW: ZAC indicated that you can get a higher angle of attack on take-off
rotation with the tricycle gear. I don't know if that puts the tail dragger
performance at a point where the take-off run is longer. It would be
interesting to know what the performance figures of the tail dragger versus
the tricycle gear are in all respects and wish that ZAC would publish some
figures on their web site...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: front wheel bearing failure - CH601XL, stock Matco wheel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
Save your breath on talking to Zenith about it. Just go buy some good
bearings and be done with it.
I told them my bearings didn't feel good when they were new. I said I
wanted them replaced they said go ahead and use them and see if there
is a problm. Well they lasted all of about 15 min. of taxi time. I
called them back to tell them. Then they said send the whole wheel
tire and all back to us and we will send it back to have it checked.
Then if it is our fault we will send you a replacement. This would no
doubt take weeks of waiting. But then all you get is another junk made
in China bearing.
So I went and got some good bearings for about $14 each and no more
problem.
You should have a spacer in the middle of the bearings. Then you can
tighten it up without side loading the bearings.
But I would tell every one to not even use the bearings that come with
the front wheel. This is the 4th one I have heard of failing very fast.
>
> The main bearings are tapered bearings and need to be tightened
> enough to set them. The front wheel bearings are not tapered and
> the center could be pushed in too far. I have to assume that I
> did the damage.....
>
> Joe
> N633Z @ AWO -- AOG
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Spar Jig Problem |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: DEGlass1@aol.com
To emphasize Bryan's answer, I had the same exact issue with the holes
alignment, before learning that ZAC match-drills a kit. Bill Howerton had posted
once that he had a terrible time (taking much longer and much more thought than
expected) building the spar jigs. One reply to him suggested that those holes
aren't really critical, especially when drilling the center spar mounting
flange holes. I used the top hole only, as Bryan suggests, and just clamped the
bottom.
My brother, a pilot, had more than casual interest in my building project.
When he was in town, I thought these jigs would be a good project for us during
an evening, to get him involved. Wrong... as Bill H said, they're a pain to
figure out, for some reason. He left saying, "I'd never have the
patience..." and hasn't helped since.
The list has been an invaluable frustration resolver, and patience is only
one virtue in a kit build. Thanks to all!
David Glass
XL fuse, controls, gear
Forest, VA
Message 8
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| Subject: | 601XL Firewall (kit built) |
-0.0 BAYES_44 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 44 to 50%
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "W.R. \"Gig\" Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox-internet.com>
Couple of questions for all the 601 builders especially the XL guys.
The firewall construction is next in the construction manual for me and the
first thing it syas to do is mark the engine mount locations. My question is
do all engine mounts for all engines for the XL use the same engine mount
positions? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'd like to be sure.
Gig Giacona 601XL
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Firewall (kit built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: DEGlass1@aol.com
Hi, Gig -
The engine mounts attach at the four longeron ends, setting the hole
locations. [An editorial note here from a first-time builder: I think the Heintz
design is just too good. It may be common design practice, but having the engine
tug the structure along by focusing the pull on the 4 longerons is elegant
simplicity.]
David Glass
XL fuse, controls, and gear
Forest, VA
Message 10
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| Subject: | 601XL Firewall (kit built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Yup and if I remember right all 601's and 701's have the same basic
firewall.
Mark Townsend
601XL EJ 2.2L
Alma, Ontario
-----Original Message-----
Couple of questions for all the 601 builders especially the XL guys.
The firewall construction is next in the construction manual for me and
the
first thing it syas to do is mark the engine mount locations. My
question is
do all engine mounts for all engines for the XL use the same engine
mount
positions? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I'd like to be sure.
Gig Giacona 601XL
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Tricycle vs Taildragger
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
<dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
I'm debating with whether to go taildragger or tricycle gear in my XL.
If I didn't mention this, my first real taxiing this morining was such fun.
The steering
on the tri-gear is an extremely positive thing and being able to get a
controlled tight turn radius
on the hangar apron and on the irregular surface beyond it was very
encouraging. Had to
run up to about 4000 rpms and then let off and stand on the brakes to glaze
them and make
them effective. The stopping power improved a little bit at each point. I
wouldn't
have enjoyed having to do this in a tail dragger nearly as much.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | 601 XL fuel sender layout |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
My prints show it on the end and am unable to locate on ZAC website the
update for installing the sensor on the top.
Thanks
Joe
601 XL
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
Larry McFarland wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Tricycle vs Taildragger
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
>>
>>
><dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
> I'm debating with whether to go taildragger or tricycle gear in my XL.
>
>The steering on the tri-gear is an extremely positive thing and being able to
get a
>controlled tight turn radius on the hangar apron and on the irregular surface
beyond it was very encouraging.
>
The steering on the taildragger is an extremely positive thing and being able to
turn on a dime is very encouraging.
>Had to run up to about 4000 rpms and then let off and stand on the brakes to glaze
>them and make them effective. The stopping power improved a little bit at each
point.
>
Me too!
>I wouldn't have enjoyed having to do this in a tail dragger nearly as much.
>
I wouldn't have enjoyed having to do this in a tri-gear nearly as much.
>Larry McFarland - 601HDS
>
Leo Gates - 601HDS
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Tricycle vs Taildragger |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 5/9/04 12:32 PM, "Leo Gates" <leogates@allvantage.com> wrote:
>> I wouldn't have enjoyed having to do this in a tail dragger nearly as much.
>>
> I wouldn't have enjoyed having to do this in a tri-gear nearly as much.
There is something to be said in that flying lasts a little longer when
you're not done until the plane is tied down ;)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Firewall (kit built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> do all engine mounts for all engines for the XL use the same engine
> mount positions?
I think the idea here is that the mounts are designed to fit the plane,
not the other way around. So. I think the mount positions are (or should
be) the same for all the different engines. One thing though....if you
plan to use a heavier engine (*such as the Corvair, and I think the
Lycoming too) then you will need the longer mounting bolts, which ZAC
will sell you.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> My prints show it on the end and am unable to locate on ZAC website
> the update for installing the sensor on the top.
My plans show it as either way, but I recall that the builder's area of
the web site has (or at least used to have) instructions for top mount.
Keep in mind that if you do mount the fuel senders on the top of the tank
(which I think makes the most leak-proof sense), then you may not have
enough room for the sensor terminal to fit under the top skin, even with
cutting the terminal length down. I know that's what happened to me, and
I had to cut holes in the top skin which I'll later cover with some sort
of removable domed cap. I suppose the side benefit of this is that I'll
be able to get to the sender if I ever need to.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 17
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| Subject: | 601XL Firewall (kit built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lawrence Webber" <lawrencewebber@hotmail.com>
The bolt on locations are usually the same unless you go out of spec in your engine
choice
Message 18
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| Subject: | Canopy restraints |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lawrence Webber" <lawrencewebber@hotmail.com>
A 2.00$ bungee cord is the easiest i have seen so far hooked to inside lip and
depending on length of bungee rear shelf or seat or hook to seat belt at oshkosh
i saw a seat belt used as a tie down in conjunction with a bungee or rope
Message 19
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| Subject: | 601XL Firewall (kit built) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
How does a longer bolt get stronger?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
wizard-24@juno.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL Firewall (kit built)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> do all engine mounts for all engines for the XL use the same engine
> mount positions?
I think the idea here is that the mounts are designed to fit the plane,
not the other way around. So. I think the mount positions are (or should
be) the same for all the different engines. One thing though....if you
plan to use a heavier engine (*such as the Corvair, and I think the
Lycoming too) then you will need the longer mounting bolts, which ZAC
will sell you.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
If you put it on top, put it as close to the spar as you can, this gives you a
little more room. I did this and dissassembled the terminals and put the lock
washer on the bottom of the sender plate to get a lower profile and after putting
the terminal on, I used a belt sander to grind off the terminal screws down
flush with the top of the nuts. This got the terminals low enough to clear the
top skin. I also put a couple layers of cork around perimeter of the sender
and taped some insulation over the terminals just in case the skin gets pushed
down too far. I also made access panels in the top skin over the senders just
in case I ever have to service them.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
>
> My prints show it on the end and am unable to locate on ZAC website the
> update for installing the sensor on the top.
>
> Thanks
> Joe
> 601 XL
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
If you put the sender on top put it as close to the spar as possible, this gives
you a little more clearance for the terminals. I also disassembled the terminal
screws and put the lock washer on the bottom side of the sender plate to get
a lower profile for the termination. After installing the terminal, I used
a belt sander to grind down the terminal screws flush with the top of the nuts.
This got everything clear of the top skin. Just to be sure the skin would not
contact the terminals, I put a couple layers of cork around the perimeter of
the sender units and put insulating material over the screws. I also put access
panels in the top skin over the senders in case I ever have to service them.
I used flat sheets of aluminum for the access covers.
Bryan
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
>
> My prints show it on the end and am unable to locate on ZAC website the
> update for installing the sensor on the top.
>
> Thanks
> Joe
> 601 XL
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 601 XL fuel sender layout |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
If you put the sender on top put it as close to the spar as possible, this gives
you a little more clearance for the terminals. I also disassembled the terminal
screws and put the lock washer on the bottom side of the sender plate to get
a lower profile for the termination. After installing the terminal, I used
a belt sander to grind down the terminal screws flush with the top of the nuts.
This got everything clear of the top skin. Just to be sure the skin would not
contact the terminals, I put a couple layers of cork around the perimeter of
the sender units and put insulating material over the screws. I also put access
panels in the top skin over the senders in case I ever have to service them.
I used flat sheets of aluminum for the access covers.
Bryan
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
>
> My prints show it on the end and am unable to locate on ZAC website the
> update for installing the sensor on the top.
>
> Thanks
> Joe
> 601 XL
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Geronimo423@aol.com
Okay.. I didn't seem to see anything in the archives about eliminating the
hinge for the wing locker door/cover altogether.... has anyone entertained the
idea of eliminating the hinge and the resulting ugly gap with a tongue in
groove arrangement on the forward edge of the cover? The whole cover could then
be
removed and placed on the ground, allowing for full access to the compartment
without reaching around the cover.... ?? Would this not put a tight seal as a
butt-joint on the forward edge, reducing leak problems??? Anyone have any
thoughts/comments/experience with this set up?
Roger Parnow
601xl
corvair power
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