---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/17/04: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:17 AM - Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl (Rick Roberts) 2. 05:48 AM - Re: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl (Benford2@aol.com) 3. 06:17 AM - Re: stabilizer FTT reinforcement rib (Scott Laughlin) 4. 07:03 AM - Re: Hobbs Meter Pressure Switch (Larry Martin) 5. 07:03 AM - Re: Hour Meter (Larry Martin) 6. 09:13 AM - Zinc Cromate paint (Mark Sherman) 7. 11:20 AM - Re: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl 8 valve in a 701? (Jim Fosse) 8. 11:20 AM - Re: Zinc chromate primer (Jim Fosse) 9. 11:33 AM - Re: Alarm System (Traveling Man) 10. 12:13 PM - Re: Hobbs Meter Pressure Switch (Fred Sanford) 11. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: Alarm System (Ray Montagne) 12. 02:19 PM - laser etched labeling (Frank Jones) 13. 02:36 PM - Re: Hour Meter (Dave & Darlene) 14. 03:05 PM - Re: aileron trim anti-servo tab (Dan knezacek) 15. 07:39 PM - Re: aileron trim anti-servo tab (Jeff Small) 16. 07:58 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate ?? (Jim Frisby) 17. 09:11 PM - Re: wing strut fittings (RURUNY@aol.com) 18. 11:27 PM - Hour Meter (Dave & Darlene) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:21 AM PST US From: Rick Roberts Subject: Zenith-List: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Roberts From all I can pull from the digest, this combo will work for a 701: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl 8 valve engine with redrive from Cleo or Raven and engine mount from Raven. Fraction of the price of a 912. Is anybody using this setup? --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:12 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 5/17/2004 5:21:21 AM Mountain Daylight Time, n601gr@yahoo.com writes: > > From all I can pull from the digest, this combo will work for a 701: > Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl 8 valve engine with redrive from Cleo or Raven and > engine mount from Raven. Fraction of the price of a 912. Is anybody > using this setup? > Winston Ellis in Idaho is going this route and I think he is close to buttoning it up.. Look for his contact info on the 701 builders on the web listung in the ZAC web site. Ben Haas, N801BH ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:24 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: stabilizer FTT reinforcement rib --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" "I did make my form and one rib with a small piece left over with .016 but I feel not comfortable using that." Hi Danny: I used .016" aluminum for the "Fit Ribs," (6-T-1-8). After it is all put together, everything is very sturdy. I used two layers of fiberglass for the tips, so they were pretty stiff already. I agree with you about the fiberglass work. It can be frustrating. I just made some more fiberglass parts (wing tips and rudder saddle) and it was easier this time. I plan to make some root wing fairings out of fiberglass that may prove to be interesting. Happy Building, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:31 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hobbs Meter Pressure Switch --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Thanks, I have no experience with non-auto engines. I learn something every day. As for a auto engines , connect the meter to the Run terminal and you test all other circuits on the Acc terminal. That way the meter only runs when power is supplied directly to the ignition. It might cost you a minute once in a while. I only run four wires off the run terminal, ignition, two hour meters, and belly strobe. All other circuits come off the power buss which is supplied by the Acc terminal. The ignition switch is power by the main power switch. Correct me if I'm wrong, I was once, but there is no requirement for a hour meter on Experimental aircraft anyway. Since auto engines don't "time out" in hours as aircraft engines do, it just becomes a piece of equipment for record keeping. Even though I don't have to, I use two meters, since my engine had miles on it when I installed it, I best guessed hours by taking the total number of miles and dividing by an average of 50 miles per hour and then run one meter up to that figure and started the other one from zero for the overall aircraft. Of course they both only run when power is supplied to the ignition. Larry N1345L ----- Original Message ----- From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hobbs Meter Pressure Switch --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net On a typical aircraft engine with magneto ignition, all the ignition switch does is to short the magnetos to ground in the off position. When the switch is on, it is an open circuit, no power is applied to anything. I believe this applies to the Rotax as well. In this setup you need another way to run the hourmeter. The simpleest way is to connect one lead of the meter to power and the other to a pressure switch. The pressure switch supplies a ground when the engine is running. With an electrically driven ignition as found on most auto conversions you could do it as you described and it would probably be a satisfacory solution. However, the meter would run anytime the ignition switch is on. Even when you are testing out circuits on the ground during inspections or troubleshooting. This could add several hours to the meter over time and, if you don't fly very often, could become a significant fraction of the total time recorded. -- N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Airframe construction complete. Panel and engine installed. Nearly done. do not archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > > I've never use a pressure switch with a hour meter. Just wire it into the > ignition switch, start engine, it runs. I guess this is something I'm not aware > of, why would you want to run it from a pressure switch? I guess to answer my > own question, it would give you exact time engine was running. Is a few seconds > here and there that important? Someone straighten me out. Politely please, I > may have been doing it wrong all these years. > Larry N1345L > ----- Original Message ----- --- Version: 6.0.675 / Virus Database: 437 - Release Date: 5/2/2004 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:36 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hour Meter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" As long as the voltage is correct, it will work. Larry N1345L ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave & Darlene To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:11 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Hour Meter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Just for everyones info and anyone who's looking. I was at Princess Auto today and they had an Hour Meter on sale. I paid $24.99 CDN. I'm a long way in needing one but I thought it was a good price in case any of you builders are looking. I assume these will work the same as a Hobbs meter. Dave XL plans only 1% done 99% to go. looking for deals on anything to do with the XL dnimigon@telusplanet.net --- Version: 6.0.675 / Virus Database: 437 - Release Date: 5/2/2004 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:53 AM PST US From: Mark Sherman Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc Cromate paint --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman Zinc Chromate primer has not had zinc in it for a number of years (thanks EPA). So what your are left with is automotive primer (not real oil or fuel resistant) or a good mil spec aircraft two part epoxy. I found that at Aircraft Spruce. For your almost $110.00, you get a gallon of paint and a gallon of catalyst (two gallons sprayable). This is some tough stuff, after it sets up (about one half hour) the only thing to touch this stuff is aircraft paint stripper. A 3M pad will scuff it up for finish painting. I used some automotive epoxy primer in the cabin area and found that wiping it down with thinner would remove some of the paint, even after setting up for a couple of days. Because there is no zinc in the paint (zinc was the sacrifice material in the paint so the metal wouldn't corrode) all you can do is seal the metal so moisture won't penetrate to the metal. It is best to Alumiprep and then Alodine aluminum before priming. The ACS part # for the paint is 09-24735. I have used this process on every piece of aluminum on my 701. It has added about 50 hours to the build, I think well worth the time and cost. Have any of you had a 30 year old Cessna and looked on the inside and seen all the corrosion ? I hope to be still flying this thing 30 years form now, and in the meantime not worry about leaving it outside or in the salt air by the coast. After all this IS a Jeep. Mark S. CH-701/912ULS 80% done, just started on instruments and engine ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:09 AM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl 8 valve in a 701? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" It's a long way from home (Poland) but you might want to take a look at www.bilsamaviation.com-engine. Their Suzuki conversion has a gear redrive. Question for Dirk. Where is the info for the BMW? Jim Fosse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl 8 valve in a 701? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" Had a look at that too, but for some reason or another I'm not so happy with a belt redrive and radiators. Have you ever thought about the R1100 RS BMW engine? 100 HP continious, feul injected, easy on petrol, very reliable etc? This installation should be lighter or the same weight as the 912, and a bit cheaper too, also comes with a geared redrive. Dirk. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Roberts To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:33 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl 8 valve in a 701? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick Roberts From all I can pull from the digest, this combo will work for a 701: Suzuki 1.3L 4 cyl 8 valve engine with redrive from Cleo or Raven and engine mount from Raven. Fraction of the price of a 912. Is anybody flying this setup? Thanks in advance, Rick --------------------------------- ==== ==== ==== ==== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:09 AM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" Why not zinc oxide? Readily available and allegedly as effective as zinc chromate and safer too. Jim Fosse, 701, Rudder, Firewall and Horiz Stab completed. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: Zinc chromate primer --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com I called Aircraft Spruce about my back ordered zinc chromate and they informed me that the company who bought Randolph paints is discontinuing the manufacture of it. So, I then called Wicks and they had 4 gallons left so I bought 2. Looks like another wrench has been thrown in the works. Some boatshops still have spray cans at $8.oo a pop; any suggestions? Joe Motis 601 XL do not archive ==== ==== ==== ==== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:20 AM PST US From: "Traveling Man" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Alarm System --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" The battery runnig dead is a problem motorcyclists who have alarms on their rides have to deal with. (Small batteries, longish times of not being used/recharged. I would suggest looking into a system for a motorcycle. Below is a link to one site that offers alarms for motorcycles, good luck. http://shop.vendio.com/evan2002/category/6069/ Bob Lindley download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:23 PM PST US From: Fred Sanford Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hobbs Meter Pressure Switch --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Sanford Leo: Probably too late for you at 99% complete, but I was going to look into making a little comparator with a 741 op amp. The voltage across the oil pressure gage at 40 or so psi is 2.2 volts. One small ic, a resistor, and a zener diode; ($3 total) connected to the oil pressure gage terminals should give either zero or twelve volts out to run the hobbs. If you have an electronics friend, perhaps he could make you a comparator circuit, and you would not have to be tapping into your engine's blood supply. Haven't built one, so it's just a suggestion.................. Fred Sanford 701 rudder Ca. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Alarm System From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 5/17/04 11:30 AM, "Traveling Man" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" > > I would suggest looking into a system for a motorcycle. > Even that solution will still draw current. My motorcycle alarm will draw the battery down within several weeks to where the motorcycle will not start. Supplementing a small solar charger that has a capacity greater than the current consumption of the alarm would solve the problem and these are readily available. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:44 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: Zenith-List: laser etched labeling --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" Just thought I'd share this experience with the list. When I first laid out my panel I used Visio to produce labels for my switches, throttle, choke etc. I printed them out using my laser printer onto Avery labels. The solution seemed to be ok until some of them started peeling and some began to fade as my finger tried to reattach them and over time rubbed off some of the ink. Anyway I looked into laser etching (like found on trophies), and for $50 Canadian I got some labels etched into a rigid black plastic with white lettering. The nice thing was that I could use my own fonts and do some bordering which all came out nicely from the laser etcher. All I needed to do was provide a CorelDraw file with the layout of the labels to scale. I'll take some photos when I have a chance if anyone is interested. Frank Jones C-GYXQ Ottawa ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:54 PM PST US From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hour Meter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Hi Larry The voltage is 12-30 V. So I'll assume this will work in most applications. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hour Meter > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > > As long as the voltage is correct, it will work. Larry N1345L > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Dave & Darlene > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2004 9:11 PM > Subject: Zenith-List: Hour Meter > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" > > Just for everyones info and anyone who's looking. I was at Princess Auto today and they had an Hour Meter on sale. I paid $24.99 CDN. I'm a long way in needing one but I thought it was a good price in case any of you builders are looking. I assume these will work the same as a Hobbs meter. > Dave > XL plans only > 1% done > 99% to go. > looking for deals on anything to do with the XL > dnimigon@telusplanet.net > > > --- > Version: 6.0.675 / Virus Database: 437 - Release Date: 5/2/2004 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:23 PM PST US From: "Dan knezacek" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: aileron trim anti-servo tab --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" I am considering putting in an anti-servo tab as aileron trim. One thing I have found is that while the elevator forces are light, on the 601HD, that the aileron forces are quite a bit heavier with the "elastically hinged ailerons". An anti-servo tab would tend to lighten up the ailerons. The challenge would be to not lighten them up too much. Another advantage would be to be able to mount the servo inside the wing instead of inside the aileron. This would mean that there would be no flexing on the cable, therefore longer cable life. Any comments? Dan CH-601 HD EA81 soob ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:53 PM PST US From: "Jeff Small" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: aileron trim anti-servo tab Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:34:35 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan knezacek" >I am considering putting in an anti-servo tab as aileron trim. Dan, what you're proposing is called a boost tab if it's what I think you're describing. It's found on aerobatic a/c but usually on the elevator. I've used them on 1/4 and 1/3 scale RC a/c. >that the aileron forces are quite a bit heavier with the "elastically hinged ailerons". Are you basing this on your completed and flying a/c or just on the popular rumor that infests this list? >Another advantage would be to be able to mount the servo inside the wing instead of inside the aileron. To my knowledge it doesn't require a servo, just linkage that moves the tab opposite the surface to which it is attached; at least that's how all versions I've seen and installed have worked. jeff ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:52 PM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zinc Chromate ?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" NAPA auto parts stores carry a product "martin senour 7222 Zincrom primer". According to it's MSDS (http://www.martinsenour-autopaint.com/msds/martin/3198.pdf) it contains "zinc oxide". I've used this to prime aluminum on my project. http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:49 PM PST US From: RURUNY@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: re: wing strut fittings 0.5 MIME_BASE64_LATIN RAW: Latin alphabet text using base64 encoding 1.0 MIME_BASE64_TEXT RAW: Message text disguised using base64 encoding --> Zenith-List message posted by: RURUNY@aol.com I just worked on this on Sunday. I spent about 20 minutes drilling and 2 hours thinking about how to do this. I do not have the fwd and rear fuselage riveted but just clecoed and this was the last step before taking it apart, deburring and riveting. I opened all the holes to #20 he front of the fitting and clecoed it down firm. I cut a #40 bit just short enough to fit into my right angle drill attachment that fits on my regular air drill. I drilled the pilot holes from the inside of the channel and clecoed. I cut a 3/16" bit short but it did not fit good in the chuck. I used another 3/16" and the right angle drill and could drill the fwd 2 holes from inside the cabin thru the pilot holes. I could not get the rear holes due to the angle of the rear fuselage. I will open them up when I take apart the 2 halves for deburring. If any of this was not possible I would have marked the location of the channel pickups on the gear channel as best I could and when taking it all apart for deburring fit it back together and drilled it from the outside the channel. since you predrilled the holes in the fitting you could punch or mark thru them and drill them with the fittings off. You might be able to get them with the flexible attachment on your dremel tool if you have one. I found the small right angle drill attachment invaluable for this and drilling the gussets. Brian I am about to drill the wing strut fittings to fuselage. Does anyone have any words of wisdom for drilling the holes inside the channel. I have the holes drilled in the steel tabs that fit inside the channel, the problem is then back drilling through the aluminum portion. There is no room to drill from inside of the cabin so they must be drilled from inside of the channel. This would take a very small angle drill head which I do not have. Does anyone have another solution. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:06 PM PST US From: "Dave & Darlene" Subject: Zenith-List: Hour Meter --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene" Just for everyones info and anyone who's looking. I was at Princess Auto today and they had an Hour Meter on sale. I paid $24.99 CDN. I'm a long way in needing one but I thought it was a good price in case any of you builders are looking. I assume these will work the same as a Hobbs meter. Dave XL plans only 1% done 99% to go. looking for deals on anything to do with the XL dnimigon@telusplanet.net