Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Crew tube vs. 4130? (Grant Corriveau)
2. 05:07 AM - FW: Crew tube vs. 4130? (Grant Corriveau)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? (Monty Graves)
4. 06:09 AM - Re: 701 Gross Weight? (Johann)
5. 07:07 AM - Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? (Larry McFarland)
6. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Zinc Chromate ?? (88tierra)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? (Jeff Small)
8. 08:09 AM - CH-701 Gross Weight (Mark Sherman)
9. 10:19 AM - Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? (cummings@stingray.net)
10. 10:46 AM - 701 gross (Brett Hanley)
11. 10:59 AM - Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? (Carlos Sa)
12. 11:33 AM - CH 601 XL Plans (Mark Bengel)
13. 11:55 AM - Re: CH 601 XL Plans (Carlos Sa)
14. 12:04 PM - Flaperon control on 701 (Johann)
15. 12:11 PM - Re: 701 gross (jnbolding1)
16. 04:38 PM - Re: 912 hard start when hot (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
17. 07:13 PM - Re: Flaperon control on 701 (Ken Szewc)
18. 08:28 PM - Re: 701 gross (Dabusmith@aol.com)
19. 08:28 PM - Re: Flaperon control on 701 (Jeff Reuschle)
20. 08:57 PM - Re: 701 Gross Weight? (JERICKSON03E@aol.com)
21. 09:12 PM - Re: Flaperon control on 701 (Dabusmith@aol.com)
22. 09:39 PM - Re: Flaperon control on 701 (Chuck Deiterich)
23. 09:43 PM - Re: Flaperon control on 701 (Chuck Deiterich)
24. 11:23 PM - Re: 912 hard start when hot (Richard McLachlan)
25. 11:38 PM - heavy left wing was: Re: aileron trim anti-servo tab (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Crew tube vs. 4130? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
The 'new' forward-lift canopy arms are specified to be of 4130 'square
tube'... I've only been able to find something called 'crew tube'. The
vendor says that 4130 is heat treated, otherwise no difference...
Can anyone tell me specifically what crew tube is vs. 4130 and more to the
point - - will it do the job for the canopy sidearms?
Thanks in advance
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 2
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| Subject: | FW: Crew tube vs. 4130? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> Can anyone tell me specifically what crew tube is vs. 4130 and more to the
> point - - will it do the job for the canopy sidearms?
>
While trying to find answers myself to this question, I found this site:
http://www.tinmantech.com/index.html
I think it will be of general interest to all builders of metal aircraft,
but especially those of you who are building from scratch...? fwiw
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves <mgraves@usmo.com>
Have you tried Charlie Volgelsong at Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
(717)432-4589 The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
Aircraft-Race Car-Machine Shop-Raw Materials
Charles T. Vogelsong
114 Sawmill Road, Dillsburg, Pa 17019
(717) 432-4589
At 07:34 AM 5/19/04 -0400, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
>The 'new' forward-lift canopy arms are specified to be of 4130 'square
>tube'... I've only been able to find something called 'crew tube'. The
>vendor says that 4130 is heat treated, otherwise no difference...
>
>Can anyone tell me specifically what crew tube is vs. 4130 and more to the
>point - - will it do the job for the canopy sidearms?
>
>Thanks in advance
>
>--
>Grant Corriveau
>C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | 701 Gross Weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Hi Mike,
I have the original plans and manual from 1986, and for the 65 hp engine,
the gross weight is 960 lbs. Empty weight 460 lbs.
Hope this is good enough source for your DAR ;-)
Best wishes,
Johann G.
Iceland.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sinclair
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Gross Weight?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
A quick, and hopefully simple question. What was the published gross weight
of
the 701 prior to the 1100 lb. SP update? I've checked my drawings (dated
1986)
and the manual and the only thing I find is 900 lbs. I'm sure I've seen
something like 976 but cannot find something solid. Zenith now only shows
1100.
Thanks for any help as to a good source to be able to show to the DAR.
Mike Sinclair N701TD
soon to fly
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Grant,
Try Wicks Aircraft Supply. I obtained my 4130 square tube from them
and wouldn't care to use a tube that had lesser properties for this purpose.
Their site is www.wicksaircraft.com
Best regards,
Larry McFarland
Subject: Zenith-List: Crew tube vs. 4130?
I've only been able to find something called 'crew tube'. The
> vendor says that 4130 is heat treated, otherwise no difference...
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Zinc Chromate ?? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" <lnk@cis.net>
I must be reading that MSDS wrong. The way I read it the only product that
has any zinc in it is the 7221 Cold Galvanizing Compound. Please show me
where I am wrong as I was about to have a friend who works at a NAPA store
order some for me.
L. Kilburg
Eastern Iowa
601 XL, Just gathering material.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Frisby
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Zinc Chromate ??
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
NAPA auto parts stores carry a product "martin senour 7222 Zincrom primer".
According to it's MSDS
(http://www.martinsenour-autopaint.com/msds/martin/3198.pdf) it contains
"zinc oxide". I've used this to prime aluminum on my project.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? |
Seal-Send-Time: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:00:45 -0400
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Small" <zodiacjeff@msn.com>
Grant,
Dillsburg has it, just checked their catalog; square in 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 7/8,
1, and up to 2 inch. Most "diameters" in .035, .049, .058, and .065 wall thickness.
This outfit is more barn and chicken coops than a modern warehouse but
old Charlie and sons have raw materials to build most anything. The phone
number below is also their fax number so you might have to make many attempts
to contact. Call today and they'll ship tomorrow morning, most days the UPS guy
is there around 2.
Luckily for me the place is eight miles away...jeff do not archive
Have you tried Charlie Volgelsong at Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
(717)432-4589 The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
Aircraft-Race Car-Machine Shop-Raw Materials
114 Sawmill Road, Dillsburg, Pa 17019
(717) 432-4589
>vendor says that 4130 is heat treated, otherwise no difference...
Message 8
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| Subject: | CH-701 Gross Weight |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
Mike.
My older set of plans have a gross weight of 960#.
You can fly with the old style of 701 at 1100 gross
but you will have to drop your G's down to +3.5 and
-2. You can do the math to get it exact.
Mark S.
CH-701/912ULS
Just starting
engine/inst install
__________________________________
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: cummings@stingray.net
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Jeff Small wrote:
> Dillsburg has it, just checked their catalog; square in 3/8, 1/2, 5/8,
I've bought tubing from them, and if Charlie doesn't have it, it can't be
had. The gotcha is shipping. Don't order a small order because you can
really be gouged on shipping, easily costing as much as your order.
Be nice to him as well, he's cantankerous and doesn't like to answer
questions, in other words, know what you want when you order for best
results.
--
Matthew P. Cummings
1974 Cessna 150L N10667
Moberly, MO (MBY)
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
The 701 gross weight was 960 pounds until the fourth
edition update. However, there are several examples in
Canada registered at 1200 pounds gross. This
increased gross weight was accomplished by changing
the classification from acrobatic class to utility class.
__________________________________
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Crew tube vs. 4130? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Grant, in case you are interested, there are two sources (other than Mtal solutions)you
could
try:
Mr. Andr Letourneau, in Beloeuil (opens Saturdays only, but you can fax/phone him
during the
week: 450 446 7400) and Mtal idal, in Laval. You might want to look up the Yellow
Pages.
Carlos
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Bengel" <bengel@bellsouth.net>
After long internal debate I've decided to build the 701 rather than the
601XL. Have original, unused, CH 601 XL plans listed on ebay in mint
condition (Edition 2.0, 1/23/03) item # 4169528141. I hope one of you can
put them to good use. - MFB
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: CH 601 XL Plans |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Mark, did you try to trade them for the 701 plans?
ZAC might agree to that...
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Bengel" <bengel@bellsouth.net>
>
> After long internal debate I've decided to build the 701 rather than the
> 601XL. Have original, unused, CH 601 XL plans listed on ebay in mint
> condition (Edition 2.0, 1/23/03) item # 4169528141. I hope one of you can
> put them to good use. - MFB
Message 14
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| Subject: | Flaperon control on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Hello list members
I would like to ask you 701 builders if anyone has used the bungy cord
method for the flaperon control handle.
If so, how do you like it? Does it hold the handle down properly?
Have you used any other method with the original flaperon handle bar?
Thank you,
Johann G.
Iceland.
do not archive
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
>
>
>The 701 gross weight was 960 pounds until the fourth
>edition update. However, there are several examples in
>Canada registered at 1200 pounds gross. This
>increased gross weight was accomplished by changing
>the classification from acrobatic class to utility class.
I think you will find that instead of going from "acrobatic" to utility, it was
calculated going from utility to standard catagory. Don't think the 701 was ever
rated in the aerobatic catagory which I think is +9 -6 G ultimate. LOW&SLOW
John
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 912 hard start when hot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 5/18/2004 5:35:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
zjohnson@ucnsb.net writes:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jackie B. Johnson" <zjohnson@ucnsb.net>
>
> Guarantee it's vapor lock..mine will do same thing if I don't remember to
> open oil access door on stopping,( so hot air can get out)..yes, it's
> insulated..fuel press gage reads nothing till it cools down, or finally get
> a surge of cool fuel, then it comes up to press and it's fine..usually goes
> to solid pressure once fuel starts flowing..cranks fine then..Doesn't do it
> as much on 100LL as auto gas..
>
Has anyone tried a vent high on the cowl to let the heated air out after
engine shutdown?
Some time back one of the homebuilder magazines, Kit Planes??, had an article
on how such a vent was constructed. As I remember it was rigged to drop to
open, then held up to close when the engine ran & pressurized the cowl.
Jerry, 701SP / 912ULS in work
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc <szewc@direcway.com>
Johann,
I am using the bungee method in mine and it seems to work fine. I have seen
complaints about how hard the handle is to move into place at higher speeds
(around 60mph), but this is due to wind resistance on the flaperons.
I have seen a 701 with a modified handle that raises and lowers the flaps.
Basically it was a hinged lever mounted to the floor. The operator pulled a
handle and moved the lever foward toward the floor to lower the flaps. Then
let go of the handle to lock them in place. I have a picture, let me know if
you want me to send it to your email.
I should get my inspection in the next week or so, so I will be able to find
out how tough the flaps are for myself.
Ken
701SP 912ULS waiting on inspection
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flaperon control on 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hello list members
>
> I would like to ask you 701 builders if anyone has used the bungy cord
> method for the flaperon control handle.
> If so, how do you like it? Does it hold the handle down properly?
> Have you used any other method with the original flaperon handle bar?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>it was calculated going from utility to standard catagory.
What maneuvers would be safe to do with the 701SP? Theoretically of course.
Dave Smith
N701XL 163hr.
Do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Reuschle" <jreuschle@mindspring.com>
Johann,
My 701 has a different system for the flaperons. I have a handle that pivots
foreward to deploy the flaperons. It slides along a vertical plate which is
mounted to the cabin floor. This plate or sheet has notches in it for
various degrees setting. The locking part of the handle is spring loaded
such that if you lift up on it with two fingers, you release the handle and
can slide the handle foreward or backwards to the next notch of flaps and
then release the locking portion..
I could send you a digital picture if that would help.
Jeff Reuschle
NCH701JR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flaperon control on 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hello list members
>
> I would like to ask you 701 builders if anyone has used the bungy cord
> method for the flaperon control handle.
> If so, how do you like it? Does it hold the handle down properly?
> Have you used any other method with the original flaperon handle bar?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 701 Gross Weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
In a message dated 5/18/2004 9:25:59 PM Central Daylight Time,
mike.sinclair@att.net writes:
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
>
> A quick, and hopefully simple question. What was the published gross weight
> of
> the 701 prior to the 1100 lb. SP update? I've checked my drawings (dated
> 1986)
> and the manual and the only thing I find is 900 lbs. I'm sure I've seen
> something like 976 but cannot find something solid. Zenith now only shows
> 1100.
> Thanks for any help as to a good source to be able to show to the DAR.
>
> Mike Sinclair N701TD
> soon to fly
>
Mike,
I have the May 1995 issue of Kit Planes that has an article on the 701. It
has a specs section that shows the MGW at 960 lb. Other data as well.
Send me your mailing address off line, and I will send you a cy of the six
pages, with cover and index.
If it turns out that you need the magazine for a while, I am willing to loan
it to you.
Jerry
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Dabusmith@aol.com
>modified handle that raises and lowers the flaps.
My flap handle is pulled to lower the flaps. It is great except I have to
lean forward to reach the handle at 0 degree position. If I snug my shoulder
harness I can't lean forward enough. I have found the 30 degree flap position
unnecessary. With 30 degrees of flap the flair can get very tricky. With 15
degrees of flap I can land just as steep and stop in the same distance.
The benefit isn't worth the reduced margin for error. Especially since my son
flies the plane. I plan to use the 15 and 30 degree slots on my flap handle
setup by converting them to 0 and 15 degree flap positions. I will eliminate
the 30 degree position. That way I can reach the handle with my harness snug.
Dave Smith
N701XL
Graham WA.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Check my web page http://members.thegateway.net/cfd under airplane, I did it
different with a spring on the handle.
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flaperon control on 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hello list members
>
> I would like to ask you 701 builders if anyone has used the bungy cord
> method for the flaperon control handle.
> If so, how do you like it? Does it hold the handle down properly?
> Have you used any other method with the original flaperon handle bar?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon control on 701 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Check my web page http://members.thegateway.net/cfd under airplane, I did it
different with a spring on the handle. The springs push down on the handle.
I also now have a flat aluminum piece on top under the nuts, (this pix was
made in the development stage)
Chuck D.
N701TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Subject: Zenith-List: Flaperon control on 701
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hello list members
>
> I would like to ask you 701 builders if anyone has used the bungy cord
> method for the flaperon control handle.
> If so, how do you like it? Does it hold the handle down properly?
> Have you used any other method with the original flaperon handle bar?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 912 hard start when hot |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" <richard@rodsley.net>
Yes, hadn't thought of the hot air trapped under the cowl. I will try
opening the oil access door like you suggest. Also, if that has no effect I
will park it in the shade and take the top cowl off completely so the engine
has air circulating round it while stopped. I will let you know if that
improves it.
Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: <JERICKSON03E@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912 hard start when hot
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 5/18/2004 5:35:04 PM Central Daylight Time,
> zjohnson@ucnsb.net writes:
>
>
> >
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jackie B. Johnson"
<zjohnson@ucnsb.net>
> >
> > Guarantee it's vapor lock..mine will do same thing if I don't remember
to
> > open oil access door on stopping,( so hot air can get out)..yes, it's
> > insulated..fuel press gage reads nothing till it cools down, or finally
get
> > a surge of cool fuel, then it comes up to press and it's fine..usually
goes
> > to solid pressure once fuel starts flowing..cranks fine then..Doesn't do
it
> > as much on 100LL as auto gas..
> >
>
> Has anyone tried a vent high on the cowl to let the heated air out after
> engine shutdown?
>
> Some time back one of the homebuilder magazines, Kit Planes??, had an
article
> on how such a vent was constructed. As I remember it was rigged to drop to
> open, then held up to close when the engine ran & pressurized the cowl.
>
> Jerry, 701SP / 912ULS in work
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: aileron trim anti-servo tab |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
I also had a heavy left wing.
There is some info in the matronics RV listserve regarding
correcting this problem. Search on 'heavy wing'.
And see http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Heavy.pdf
Wing_Heavy.pdf says 'The final solution, if all else fails,
is simply add a trim tab.'
I didn't have to. I squeezed the right aileron with my fingers.
It doesn't take much. No more heavy left wing. YMMV.
Joe
N633Z @ AWO
24 hours
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