Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:15 AM - re 701 thrust angle (roy vickski)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: Zodiac XL (Dave Kubassek)
3. 06:09 AM - Latex (Larry Martin)
4. 07:01 AM - Rolled bead on 701 10 gallon tanks... (Bima, Martin)
5. 07:33 AM - Re: fuel tank offset for 601 (Bob Miller)
6. 08:01 AM - Re: fuel tank offset for 601 (Ron DeWees)
7. 11:46 AM - Re: Engine Choice - Rotax or Jabiru? (Peter Mather)
8. 03:35 PM - unknown part number (Lawrence Webber)
9. 04:49 PM - Verner Throttle. (Johann)
10. 07:04 PM - 601HD PROJECT ON EBAY (Dave Pepper)
11. 07:42 PM - Re: Verner Throttle. (George Swinford)
12. 08:39 PM - Re: 601HD PROJECT ON EBAY (Brett)
13. 09:13 PM - Re: 601HD PROJECT ON EBAY (Jim and Lucy)
14. 09:37 PM - Re: Verner Throttle. (Jack Russell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | re 701 thrust angle |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
Depending on direction the prop rotates.
Due to P factor, engine is angled toward the
descending blade. Each airplane design is different so
trust the designer specified angles.
Roy
701 plans
__________________________________
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Kubassek" <dkubassek@golden.net>
Excellent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I couldn't describe the experience any better if I tried.
dave kubassek
C-FDSF XL 0235
----- Original Message -----
From: "xl" <xl@prosody.org>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiac XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I started building my CH601XL mid May 2004 and was ready for the
> airworthyness inspection Dec 9 2004. I didn't have it until April 9
> because of an FAA paperwork glitch. I completed my 40 hour flight
> testing last Friday and flew my first passenger last Saturday.
> It took me 1077.5 hours to build 633Z.
> I may be able to do it in 800 hours now.
> I built 633Z in a 10' x 20' tent in my side yard.
> I fit the wings in my front yard with no room to spare.
>
> I cruise at 120 mph at 2600 rpm with a Jabiru 3300 (at about 5 gph).
> It will go 140 mph at full throttle. I expect to pick up about 10
> mph when I install the wheel pants. It climbs at ~1000 fpm @ 80 mph
> with just me in it and at ~600 fpm at gross weight at sea level.
> I have a wood prop 64x49. I took a friend up today, it was about 80
> degrees F and I would not want a smaller engine.
> The plane does steep turns like it was built for them.
>
> It is an *excellent* kit. It went together smoothly for me.
> I was a carpenter in an earlier life.....
> I had a few rough spots but nothing major.
>
> The instructions for the rudder are very complete.
> The instructions for the wings were very helpful.
> The instructions get sparser as you go. By the time you get to
> the canopy they show you pictures of the finished product.
> So I had to feel my way through. The canopy took me about 3 weeks
> (about 1/8 of the total build time). Sometimes the sequence isn't
> clear - for example I had to drill out the stringers to install the
> seat belts. And if I riveted the seat bottoms when I thought the
> instructions said to I would have had to take them out to do something
> else. I had to think a bit when I installed the baggage floor and
> riveted the longerons. I did it differently (as in sequence, that is)
> than the instructions recommended.
>
> I got the firewall forward kit from Zenith and the engine wasn't hard
> to install. I don't particularly like the cables. But I stayed almost
> stock so that I could get the plane flying. I do work on my own car
> (a 1971 Volvo 144S).
>
> Questions to Zenith usually got a stock response. Essentially you are
> building the plane. I asked Roger - the guy at Zenith who gives the
> demo rides and flies the demo to air shows - if there are any gotcha's
> I should know about. He said everyone has their own. Zenith does respond
> and gives advice but you have to figure it out. I like the Zenith outfit!
> But I am the builder. And they don't tell you how to use tools.
> That said I think that Zenith is very supportive of the home builder.
> But they can't hold your hand. They have a good kit and the finished
> product flies well. Roger does know lots about flying and his planes.
> And he does share.
>
> The matronics Zenith-List is a good place to browse.
> It helped me to see what others went through.
>
> Joe
> N633Z @ BFI
> 44 hours
>
> do not archive
>
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Mike H wrote:
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mike H" <mhilderbrand@cox.net>
> >
> > Hi group. I am ne w to this list and trying to find answers about the
> zodiac xl. Mainly s imple questions like the average buiding time,
> realistic cruise ( wi th what engine?), what are pros and cons about the
> construction / manual / company support / difficulty building... etc.
> And, is there anyone th at lives near the Wichita, KS area that is in the
> building process or fini shed. I would like to see one in person. My only
> experience building is the Challenger II with fabric covering. Thanks!!
> > Mike H
> >
>
>
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge about painting "Metal" aircraft with
latex?
Take a look, www.gyrostabs.com
---
Message 4
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| Subject: | Rolled bead on 701 10 gallon tanks... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
The rolled bead serves three purposes...
1 - make the ends of the sheets rigid
While welding the thin sheet may start to wave at you as it goes
the heating and cooling.
2 - stress relief
Metal shrinks while cooling and the bead will provide some give.
3 - create opportunity to pop some holes in your tank
While making my first tank, my 1/4" steel round bar had a burr
on it which transferred to the tank - clean your tools.
Martin
STOL-Vair
www.autobahn.mb.ca/~bima
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: fuel tank offset for 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Ron,
Yes, I've gotten tremendous help from the group, and Jeff has been
particularly informative. He has the Jabiru 3300 and it is really sweet.
In fact, the only Zenith I've ever seen in real life was his, up in
Pennsylvania, and it is a true work of art. He told me he has over 2500
hours build time, and it shows. Mine will be nothing like that,
unfortunately.
Interesting you mention flying formation, that's one thing I'm really
looking forward to. Just hope my 2200 doesn't prove to slow to keep up with
normal folks! I'm planning to experiment with fairings to improve the
performance once it's up and flying, and for more precise adjustment and
comparisons am installing a digital tach, true airspeed indicator, a good
vernier throttle, and have extended the throttle arm on the carburetor.
I'll be reporting the difference various mods make to the list group, hoping
to make a small payback for all the help I've gotten here.
Your idea for the panel sounds terrific, and would really solve some
problems for me. And you got the news here just in time, as am constructing
the panel (actually experimenting with various ways to make things work)
right now. So you made a "bow" out of bent tubing, I'm guessing? I've
been really concerned about the structural support required of the
panel--how did you deal with this? Where do the straps that go from the
firewall to the instrument panel, under the tank, attach to your bow? Yes,
if it's not too much trouble, I'd LOVE to see some pics!
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tank offset for 601
> Hi again Bob,
> I wondered about the tanks sent for Zenair's too. Maybe they will fit
> either a 701 or a 601. Makes it difficult to plan panel space when the
tank
> has to come back 2 or 3 inches at the bottom tho. I think I saw that you
> had gotten an email from Jeff (zodiac Jeff) and/or Fred Hulens on this
list.
> THey have been VERY helpful for me. I sort of feel adopted by them and
they
> both have a very nice photo archive of their planes. Either will be happy
> to help and send information and pix. THey bailed me out a LOT.
> One thing I did that you might think about is to make a removable
> instrumebt panel. I bent a "bow" that fits the contour of the instrument
> panel and made the instrument panel a single plate that mounts to the bow
> with isolation shock absorbers like little Lord mounts. I can pull 6
screws
> and the panel will fall forward and allow access to the rear areas. Just
> takes a little extra length of wire on gauges and switches and will be
> easier than popping rivits off the header skin to get there or making an
> access panel that can leak water into some expensive spaces. I'll send
pix
> if you aren't past this point yet.
> I live in Atlanta, Ga and my tech counselor is building a 601 HDS from
> plans so we have a lot to talk about. He is going to put a Corvair in
his.
> Hopefully we will get to fly Young Eagles and fly formation when we
finish.
> He is a few months behind me.
> Ron
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
> To: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2004 1:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tank offset for 601
>
>
> > Ron,
> > Thanks again. The 1/2" lip sounds like it should be sufficient in
combo
> > with the strap. I too am surprised there's not mention of it in the
> manual,
> > or that the tank isn't a different shape. Maybe it's left over from
> another
> > bird?
> > And I bought a project on wheels as well, and had the same rivet phobia.
> > Having to correct lots of mistakes or insufficiencies from the previous
> > builder have taught me a lot, but it's still somewhat daunting having to
> > figure out so many things without knowing whether it's really the right
> way
> > to go. Probably for the most part I'm overestimating how precise or
> strong
> > things need to be. Right now working on the panel, trying to figure out
> how
> > to mount some instruments that are too long to fit between the panel and
> the
> > tank, and do so in such a way they look good and can be accessed and
> > adjusted without too much trouble.
> > Congrats on being so far along. Where are you located?
> > Bob
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: fuel tank offset for 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Hi Bob,
Sounds like you are a real experimenter. I like that in a metal banger! I
will try to get some pix today and shoot them off to you.
I have found that Jeff a tremendous source of help and inspiration. I
think I remember Fred Hulens telling me that Jeff overcame a life
threatening illness while building the Zenair but is doing great now. I
also believe it's Jeff that has the fastest 601 on the planet. I have heard
him say it will reach 150 mph. If ZAC could have done that they would
report 175 as top speed ; (
Fred made a lot of beautiful fairings for stuff and it helped a lot. I
will be hitting him up for pix at some point but for now I just want to get
it off the ground with the FAA's blessings.
The bow was bent from aprox 1" aluminum angle iron-- you know, "L" shaped.
I had to hammer it on one side to make it expand and start a bend. THen I
had to use a 4" angle grinder to keep it smooth. It gets a lot of strength
from the angle and easily supports the cowl and instrument panel. Hopefully
the pix will show better than I can describe. I dont remember where Igot
the angle iron. Possibly at a hardware store.
I would sure advise that you drop a few bucks and pick up Kent Pasler's
"Speed with Economy" book. It's $20 ish and self published, but the guy is
a genius and engineer. He took a Mustang II kit and increased the speed by
60 mpg and cut the fuel consumption about a third. Won all sort of CAFE
competitions at Sun and Fun. Lots of suggestions are pretty esoteric, but
many are common sense and based on LOTS of experimentation.
Let me run and I will go to the shop to get a few pix for you.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: fuel tank offset for 601
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
<drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
>
> Ron,
>
> Yes, I've gotten tremendous help from the group, and Jeff has been
> particularly informative. He has the Jabiru 3300 and it is really
sweet.
> In fact, the only Zenith I've ever seen in real life was his, up in
> Pennsylvania, and it is a true work of art. He told me he has over 2500
> hours build time, and it shows. Mine will be nothing like that,
> unfortunately.
>
> Interesting you mention flying formation, that's one thing I'm really
> looking forward to. Just hope my 2200 doesn't prove to slow to keep up
with
> normal folks! I'm planning to experiment with fairings to improve the
> performance once it's up and flying, and for more precise adjustment and
> comparisons am installing a digital tach, true airspeed indicator, a good
> vernier throttle, and have extended the throttle arm on the carburetor.
> I'll be reporting the difference various mods make to the list group,
hoping
> to make a small payback for all the help I've gotten here.
>
> Your idea for the panel sounds terrific, and would really solve some
> problems for me. And you got the news here just in time, as am
constructing
> the panel (actually experimenting with various ways to make things work)
> right now. So you made a "bow" out of bent tubing, I'm guessing? I've
> been really concerned about the structural support required of the
> panel--how did you deal with this? Where do the straps that go from the
> firewall to the instrument panel, under the tank, attach to your bow? Yes,
> if it's not too much trouble, I'd LOVE to see some pics!
>
> Bob
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Choice - Rotax or Jabiru? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
Many Thanks to all who have replied both on and off list - now I'm really
confused :-)
I'll read through the various posts again and then repost my pros and cons
Thanks again
Peter
Message 8
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| Subject: | unknown part number |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lawrence Webber" <lawrencewebber@hotmail.com>
Hi gang im a slo part time kit builder of a 601xl im having a go round with nick
about a part anybody have a picture of the weird shaped round chromed special
washer that comes with the handle assembly it fits inside of the outside canopy
release handle i believe its function is as a take up spacer or washer i find
no reference any where and nick thinks im pipedreaming i believe it only comes
with the canopy release mechanism on forward tilt canopys any help would
be appreciated THNXS IN ADVANCE
Larry
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access fights spam and pop-ups now 3 months FREE!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Verner Throttle. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Hi list members.
I am at the stage in my project where things get complicated. I have to make
the decision on what to install in the instrument panel.
I noticed where Bob Miller mentioned a Verner throttle control in his dash.
This throttle control looks very nice and I would like to install one in my
plane, but the question is, what type have you been using on the Rotax 912?
According to the drawings from Zenith Co., they use the solid rod bent on
the throttle control bracket on the firewall and a T in the dash. I prefere
a friction control on the pilots side.
I was looking in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog and found the Verner control
with a =BC-28 Threded end. Would that be better than the .078=94 dia. stainless
steel wire core?
Should I use the botton lock or the screwable friction lock.
I would really appreciate your input, because I have never used this kind or
throttle before, only flown my Firestar with a plastic washer friction
control on a T handle.
Regard,
Johann G.
Iceland.
Zenith 701.
1100 hrs and counting.
Message 10
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| Subject: | 601HD PROJECT ON EBAY |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper" <rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
Item #2481812279 under "Experimental aircraft " Maybe some listers have friends
who might be interested in bidding.
Thanks....Dave
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Throttle. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Johann:
I adapted a friction throttle by cutting away the throttle cable and tapping
the throttle control to accept a 3/16 steel rod. This 3/16 rod passes thru
the firewall just above and outboard of the throttle bellcrank tube 6-E-5-1.
The end of the rod is tapped with a 10-32 thread and accepts a clevis. It is
connected to the throttle bellcrank by a short link. No slot is needed in
the firewall, just a 3/16 hole.
George
---- Original Message -----
From: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
Subject: Zenith-List: Verner Throttle.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Johann" <johann@gi.is>
>
> Hi list members.
>
> I am at the stage in my project where things get complicated. I have to
make
> the decision on what to install in the instrument panel.
> I noticed where Bob Miller mentioned a Verner throttle control in his
dash.
> This throttle control looks very nice and I would like to install one in
my
> plane, but the question is, what type have you been using on the Rotax
912?
> According to the drawings from Zenith Co., they use the solid rod bent on
> the throttle control bracket on the firewall and a T in the dash. I
prefere
> a friction control on the pilots side.
>
> I was looking in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog and found the Verner control
> with a =BC-28 Threded end. Would that be better than the .078=94 dia.
stainless
> steel wire core?
> Should I use the botton lock or the screwable friction lock.
> I would really appreciate your input, because I have never used this kind
or
> throttle before, only flown my Firestar with a plastic washer friction
> control on a T handle.
>
> Regard,
>
> Johann G.
> Iceland.
> Zenith 701.
> 1100 hrs and counting.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD PROJECT ON EBAY |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Pepper"
<rockinrimranch@earthlink.net>
>
> Item #2481812279 under "Experimental aircraft " Maybe some listers
have friends who might be interested in bidding.
>
> Thanks....Dave
I can't find it. Can you post a link?
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601HD PROJECT ON EBAY |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
>
>
>I can't find it. Can you post a link?
>
>Brett Ray
>www.hog-air.com
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2481788775
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2481812279
Jim
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Verner Throttle. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Johann: I used the throttles from aircraft spruce and I like the way they turned
out. See pic. I started with a 2" long torque tube on the firewall mounted right
in the center but found that the short S bend in the cable caused it to operate
very stiff. I then made the long tube you see in the picture and ran the
cables straight and they work well. I also took out the plastic friction nut
on the passenger so only the pilot side will tighten. Jack
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
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