Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:21 AM - Re: Stratus Magnetic Pickup - Backup Ignition (Andrew SanClemente)
2. 09:05 AM - Working with steel (Carlos Sa)
3. 09:16 AM - Re: Working with steel (Joemotis@aol.com)
4. 10:01 AM - Re: 601 Rear Fuselage Alignment (Larry McFarland)
5. 10:17 AM - Re: Working with steel (Larry McFarland)
6. 10:50 AM - 601XL Fuselage Riveting (Gig Giacona)
7. 11:33 AM - Re: 601XL Fuselage Riveting (Jack Russell)
8. 01:47 PM - Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new directions (Joemotis@aol.com)
9. 02:43 PM - Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new directions (Carlos Sa)
10. 02:54 PM - Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new directi... (Joemotis@aol.com)
11. 03:07 PM - Re: Working with steel (Carlos Sa)
12. 03:44 PM - Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new directions (cgalley)
13. 03:53 PM - Re: Working with steel (Larry McFarland)
14. 04:31 PM - Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor. (xl)
15. 05:55 PM - Re: 601 Rear Fuselage Alignment (Dave Alberti)
16. 06:14 PM - Re: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor. (George Swinford)
17. 07:41 PM - Re: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO (xl)
18. 08:12 PM - Another Zodiac in the Air (j.breit)
19. 09:09 PM - Re: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor. (Thomas F Marson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Stratus Magnetic Pickup - Backup Ignition |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <duck@townisp.com>
Thanks to all for the information,
Frank, I will contact you off list regarding your parts,
Andrew SanClemente
601 HDS Stratus
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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| Subject: | Working with steel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, folks
I'm putting together a tool to squeeze the solid rivets on the 601HD wing spar.
Over the many months of building the 601 from plans I have acquired the skills
to work with
aluminium, but I haven't worked with steel before.
So, I thought more experienced builders might be able to provide me with some tips.
I need to cut two 5"x7"x1/4" steel plate in the (rough) shape of a "C". I do not
own a band saw,
so I can either use a hack saw (oodles of elbow grease) or a Craftsman scroller
saw.
I did try the scoller saw, but all it did was to polish the blade and produce a
1 mm dent on the
plate.
Is there a specific type of blade I could use?
Also: drilling 1/4" holes on the plate wasn't a smooth process. I started with
a 1/8" pilot hole,
followed by some intermediate size (can't remember) and then the 1/4" bit. There
was a lot of
vibration and "unhapiness" on the part of the (Craftsman) drill press.
The drill was straight, not bent (not jetfighter-like straight, but good homebuild-straight).
Any suggestions, ideas, tips?
Thanks in advance
Carlos
CH601HD
"Snailworks" is warpspeed compared to me.
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Working with steel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Buy a Sawzall. Just like the name says they will saw anything and they have
blades for everything. Around 150 bucks and get the one with the quick change
blade holder.
Check out this link
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3009
Do not cheap out and buy the crummy chicago electric one, though. It is an
excersise in futility.
Joe Motis
601XL
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Rear Fuselage Alignment |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
David,
The process of alignment is one of having lots of quick clamps to position
everything
before drilling or putting clecos in. Without a dimension of error, it's
only conjecture that
your problem is probably minor. I trimmed my sides after boxing up the
structure, but I'm
a scratch builder. Don't know how much adjustment you have to work with.
Be sure you have
a flat table and a large square. Measure your gaps on the level bubble and
then adjust until things
until they are correct. Trim and drill last. Try to match sides by layout of
one side on the next
once you're comfortable that they're going to get the position you want. If
you're into clecos,
and things don't line up, consider which dimensions are most important to
the structure and don't
be afraid to make pieces more than once or even twice. We all have had to
remake parts, so don't
let it get to you.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com
>
> Any tips on aligning the rear fuselage? I know I don't want any
> twist in the fuse, as it says in the instructions, but I'm not sure the
> best way to measure this or to fix it. I first made the top longerons
> level with the bottom and the worktable, but then the sides were at
> slightly different angles to the worktable. When I fix the sides, then
> the level is off.
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.
>
>
> David Tellet, 601HD, ~50% done
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Working with steel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
> I'm putting together a tool to squeeze the solid rivets on the 601HD wing
spar.
>
>
> Carlos
> CH601HD
> "Snailworks" is warpspeed compared to me.
>
> do not archive
>
Carlos,
The sledge hammer and punch is much faster than the process of making a
squeezer.
How are you going to know if the compression is giving you grip adequate to
head and dimension
needed by squeezing these? I think you'd be better off hammering them.
I nearly finished one spar in the course of an afternoon before my air
riviting hammer
arrived. Then things went much faster and it was done within an hour.
Use steel blocks and put the head of the rivet in the cupped die in one of
the blocks while you hammer on the opposing side. It's really easy and not
difficult to get very accurat results with a little practice.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Message 6
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| Subject: | 601XL Fuselage Riveting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona@cox-internet.com>
As everyone has noticed and many have commented on as you get further along
in the construction manual Zenith seems to start assuming that you know how
to do things and reduces the instructions spelled out in the manual.
I'm on 6B-10, the mating the forward Fuse floor sections and, with the
exception of riveting the bottom rear fuselage and the firewall, I have yet
to see any instructions to rivet any of the parts of the rear fuselage
together.
My question is when do these parts start getting riveted? Im going to run
out Clecos before to long.
For photos of where I am visit my web build site at
www.peoamerica.net/N601WR.
Gig
---
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Fuselage Riveting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Hi Gig: I say rivet everything 10 minutes before your first flight ;) It seemed
everytime I put a rivet in somewhere I ended up drilling it out because
there was something else to do first. That is when I decided to buy about double
the clecos that ZAC recommends and wait until nothing else can be done before
riveting. Although my fuselauge is pretty much done I still haven't riveted
the top skins or the baggage compartment. I am glad I didn't because now I need
to build some brackets to run the electric back and that would have been a
hassle if the baggage was in place.
Jack
Gig Giacona <wr.giacona@cox-internet.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona"
As everyone has noticed and many have commented on as you get further along
in the construction manual Zenith seems to start assuming that you know how
to do things and reduces the instructions spelled out in the manual.
I'm on 6B-10, the mating the forward Fuse floor sections and, with the
exception of riveting the bottom rear fuselage and the firewall, I have yet
to see any instructions to rivet any of the parts of the rear fuselage
together.
My question is when do these parts start getting riveted? Im going to run
out Clecos before to long.
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new |
directions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
:
"WARNING:
Power supplies contain electrolytic capacitors and need to be used as soon as
possible.
If stored for a long period of time, they are subject to failure. When
this happens, it is recommended to start the power supplies @ 25% voltage
for about 10 minutes, before applying full voltage.
You can achieve reduced voltage by using a variable power supply or by running
the strobe power supply without lamps attached."
the above has been recently added to the kits by Aeroflash.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new |
directions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I'm curious about the Whelen strobes.
Don't they have simialr requirements?
Carlos
Do not archive
> "WARNING:
> Power supplies contain electrolytic capacitors and need to be used as soon as
> possible.
> If stored for a long period of time, they are subject to failure. When
> this happens, it is recommended to start the power supplies @ 25% voltage
> for about 10 minutes, before applying full voltage.
> You can achieve reduced voltage by using a variable power supply or by running
> the strobe power supply without lamps attached."
>
> the above has been recently added to the kits by Aeroflash.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new |
directi...
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
This applies to all electrolytic capacitors that have been stored for any
length of time. We use ABB variable speed drives for building automation systems
and they have the same "start at reduced voltage requirements". They (ABB)
also recommend ambient temperatures and humidity levels for storage of said
drives. These are 600 to 4160 VAC industrial strength well made EXPENSIVE pieces
of equipment also.
Joe Motis
601XL
Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Working with steel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hello, Larry
> The sledge hammer and punch is much faster than the process of making a
> squeezer.
> How are you going to know if the compression is giving you grip adequate to
> head and dimension
> needed by squeezing these?
Maybe I did not understand your question, but I would simply measure the squeezed
rivet and make
sure it is within tolerances.
In addition, after a few test rivets, I'd know that by the position of the lever.
> I think you'd be better off hammering them.
> I nearly finished one spar in the course of an afternoon before my air
> riviting hammer
> arrived. Then things went much faster and it was done within an hour.
>
> Use steel blocks and put the head of the rivet in the cupped die in one of
> the blocks while you hammer on the opposing side. It's really easy and not
> difficult to get very accurat results with a little practice.
I have a question on this: you were swinging a sledge hammer pretty close to the
spar. What
measures did you take to protect it?
Regards
Carlos
do do archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the new |
directions
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
If you go to the Whelen web site there used to be a similar warning. It
might still be there. Now days, they are claiming they are using a better
capacitor and you don't have to worry. Which is right? I don't know.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: power supplies for pre charging strobes with the
new directions
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> I'm curious about the Whelen strobes.
> Don't they have simialr requirements?
>
> Carlos
> Do not archive
>
>
> > "WARNING:
> > Power supplies contain electrolytic capacitors and need to be used as
soon as
> > possible.
> > If stored for a long period of time, they are subject to failure. When
> > this happens, it is recommended to start the power supplies @ 25%
voltage
> > for about 10 minutes, before applying full voltage.
> > You can achieve reduced voltage by using a variable power supply or by
running
> > the strobe power supply without lamps attached."
> >
> > the above has been recently added to the kits by Aeroflash.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Working with steel |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> I have a question on this: you were swinging a sledge hammer pretty close
to the spar. What
> measures did you take to protect it?
>
>
> Regards
>
> Carlos
> do do archive
Carlos,
With the spar and rivet setting on the block with the cup die in it, I used
a large flat punch
about 3/8" diameter and a 2-lb sledge. Very controllable and when you get
the hang of it,
the rivet diameter and protrusion become correct on about the second strike.
No worries about hitting
the spar with that large a hammer, because you're going for the punch.
Larry
Do not Archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Hi again!
After I took Arthur, a fellow zenith lister + a kitfox builder, for
a ride out of TIW (Tacoma) I flew to HQM (Hoquiam) and then north to
11S (Sekiu) - around the Olympic pensinsula. I flew the other way
around on my first cross country solo. This was my first cross
country in 633Z. I landed at 11S, tookoff and headed East off the
downwind. About 1/2 way to CLM (Port Angeles) my CO alarm went off.
The CO concentration was about 400 ppm where it was sitting.
800 ppm causes dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes,
insensiblity within two hours. So things were not going well.
I held the monitor by the air vent and it read 40 to 80 ppm.
Not bad - I kept my face close to the fresh air flow and made
for CLM. Traffic was using 26 but I was headed the other way.
I talked to the pilots using 26 and told them I wanted to come
straight in for 8. I didn't want to spend the time in the downwind with
high CO in the cockpit. One pilot was rolling and he banked to the west
to let me come under him from the east. I was on the ground about 15
minutes after the alarm went off. If I didn't have the CO monitor I
may well have ended up in the Straight in Davy Jones Locker.
I pulled the cowl and found that the muffler welds had broken and
the muffler was sitting in the heat muff. One pipe was trying to
burn through the fiberglass in the cowl. It was 1600 Saturday, so
I spent a relaxing night in the Port Angeles Inn. Rite Air let me
use their courtesy car - a candidate for an AOPA crewcar story.
Sunday morning I figured I wouldn't find a welder working on Father's
day. So I headed to Schuck's and bought a couple of flexible tailpipes
and a couple of adapters. I had my new straight through exhaust system
in by noon. I wanted to use bailing wire to hold the end of the pipes
off of the cowl but had to settle for welding rod. After lunch I headed
back to BFI - with just a bit of apprehension and a fresh battery in the
CO monitor.
I'm debating whether or not to stay with the straight pipes. It's not
much louder without the muffler. It may 'sound more like an airplane'
now. And the muffler will need stronger welds and probably doublers
and hangers for the tailpipes to keep it from failing again. I'd have
to redo the heat muff - no big deal. The muffler and tailpipes came
from Jabiru along with my 3300 engine.
Hmmmm. I go through turbulence bumpier than my landings.
Someday, hopefully, I'll have 633Z finished and able to put up with the
way that I fly :) :). The mechanic at Rite Air said that homebuilts are
a work in progress....
Cheers, Joe
N633Z @ BFI
54 hours
Message 15
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| Subject: | 601 Rear Fuselage Alignment |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" <daberti@execpc.com>
I'd reverse Larry's suggestion of "trim and drill last" to drill and trim
last. Assuming that you have over a ten MM edge from the drilled holes you
can set a straight edge at that distance from your drilled holes and mark
with a sharpie pen. Cut with just enough extra stock to finish file to the
straight line. It will look like you cut the sheet first and drilled later.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Joe:
What CO monitor are you using?
George
601HD in Bellevue
----- Original Message -----
From: "xl" <xl@prosody.org>
Subject: Zenith-List: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
>
>
> Hi again!
>
> After I took Arthur, a fellow zenith lister + a kitfox builder, for
> a ride out of TIW (Tacoma) I flew to HQM (Hoquiam) and then north to
> 11S (Sekiu) - around the Olympic pensinsula. I flew the other way
> around on my first cross country solo. This was my first cross
> country in 633Z. I landed at 11S, tookoff and headed East off the
> downwind. About 1/2 way to CLM (Port Angeles) my CO alarm went off.
>
> The CO concentration was about 400 ppm where it was sitting.
> 800 ppm causes dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes,
> insensiblity within two hours. So things were not going well.
> I held the monitor by the air vent and it read 40 to 80 ppm.
> Not bad - I kept my face close to the fresh air flow and made
> for CLM. Traffic was using 26 but I was headed the other way.
> I talked to the pilots using 26 and told them I wanted to come
> straight in for 8. I didn't want to spend the time in the downwind with
> high CO in the cockpit. One pilot was rolling and he banked to the west
> to let me come under him from the east. I was on the ground about 15
> minutes after the alarm went off. If I didn't have the CO monitor I
> may well have ended up in the Straight in Davy Jones Locker.
>
> I pulled the cowl and found that the muffler welds had broken and
> the muffler was sitting in the heat muff. One pipe was trying to
> burn through the fiberglass in the cowl. It was 1600 Saturday, so
> I spent a relaxing night in the Port Angeles Inn. Rite Air let me
> use their courtesy car - a candidate for an AOPA crewcar story.
> Sunday morning I figured I wouldn't find a welder working on Father's
> day. So I headed to Schuck's and bought a couple of flexible tailpipes
> and a couple of adapters. I had my new straight through exhaust system
> in by noon. I wanted to use bailing wire to hold the end of the pipes
> off of the cowl but had to settle for welding rod. After lunch I headed
> back to BFI - with just a bit of apprehension and a fresh battery in the
> CO monitor.
>
> I'm debating whether or not to stay with the straight pipes. It's not
> much louder without the muffler. It may 'sound more like an airplane'
> now. And the muffler will need stronger welds and probably doublers
> and hangers for the tailpipes to keep it from failing again. I'd have
> to redo the heat muff - no big deal. The muffler and tailpipes came
> from Jabiru along with my 3300 engine.
>
> Hmmmm. I go through turbulence bumpier than my landings.
> Someday, hopefully, I'll have 633Z finished and able to put up with the
> way that I fly :) :). The mechanic at Rite Air said that homebuilts are
> a work in progress....
>
> Cheers, Joe
> N633Z @ BFI
> 54 hours
>
>
Message 17
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|
monitor
| Subject: | Re: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO |
monitor
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Nighthawk AC Plug-in Digital CO/Gas Alarm with Battery Backup
Model 900-0113 $59.97
It worked for me.............
Digital readout continuously displays carbon monoxide levels from 30-999 parts
per million.
It runs about 20 hours on a 9V battery. One could wire it in using a 9V power chip.
When it is on a small circle flashes. There is a test button.
(more info at http://www.homedepot.com/ - search for 'carbon monoxide'.)
It can't be read in direct sunlight - need to shade it to see it.
> On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, George Swinford wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
> Joe:
> What CO monitor are you using?
>
> George
> 601HD in Bellevue
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "xl" <xl@prosody.org>
> > To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Zenith-List: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor.
> > The CO concentration was about 400 ppm where it was sitting.
> > 800 ppm causes dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes,
> > insensiblity within two hours. So things were not going well.
> > ..snip ............snip
> > I pulled the cowl and found that the muffler welds had broken and
> > the muffler was sitting in the heat muff. One pipe was trying to
> > ..snip ............snip
Message 18
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| Subject: | Another Zodiac in the Air |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "j.breit" <j.breit@comcast.net>
Maiden flight of CH601HDS yesterday about 6 AM at Paine Field in Everett, WA (N826JB).
Started building in May of 1999. Stratus Subaru engine. Also flew today.
Amazed at the climb rate of this airplane/engine.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" <tmarson@pressenter.com>
Great first person story. What is the name of your CO monitor and where can
it be purchased? Tom Marsosn
----- Original Message -----
From: "xl" <xl@prosody.org>
Subject: Zenith-List: Another 633Z tale, or glad that I had that CO monitor.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
>
>
> Hi again!
>
> After I took Arthur, a fellow zenith lister + a kitfox builder, for
> a ride out of TIW (Tacoma) I flew to HQM (Hoquiam) and then north to
> 11S (Sekiu) - around the Olympic pensinsula. I flew the other way
> around on my first cross country solo. This was my first cross
> country in 633Z. I landed at 11S, tookoff and headed East off the
> downwind. About 1/2 way to CLM (Port Angeles) my CO alarm went off.
>
> The CO concentration was about 400 ppm where it was sitting.
> 800 ppm causes dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 minutes,
> insensiblity within two hours. So things were not going well.
> I held the monitor by the air vent and it read 40 to 80 ppm.
> Not bad - I kept my face close to the fresh air flow and made
> for CLM. Traffic was using 26 but I was headed the other way.
> I talked to the pilots using 26 and told them I wanted to come
> straight in for 8. I didn't want to spend the time in the downwind with
> high CO in the cockpit. One pilot was rolling and he banked to the west
> to let me come under him from the east. I was on the ground about 15
> minutes after the alarm went off. If I didn't have the CO monitor I
> may well have ended up in the Straight in Davy Jones Locker.
>
> I pulled the cowl and found that the muffler welds had broken and
> the muffler was sitting in the heat muff. One pipe was trying to
> burn through the fiberglass in the cowl. It was 1600 Saturday, so
> I spent a relaxing night in the Port Angeles Inn. Rite Air let me
> use their courtesy car - a candidate for an AOPA crewcar story.
> Sunday morning I figured I wouldn't find a welder working on Father's
> day. So I headed to Schuck's and bought a couple of flexible tailpipes
> and a couple of adapters. I had my new straight through exhaust system
> in by noon. I wanted to use bailing wire to hold the end of the pipes
> off of the cowl but had to settle for welding rod. After lunch I headed
> back to BFI - with just a bit of apprehension and a fresh battery in the
> CO monitor.
>
> I'm debating whether or not to stay with the straight pipes. It's not
> much louder without the muffler. It may 'sound more like an airplane'
> now. And the muffler will need stronger welds and probably doublers
> and hangers for the tailpipes to keep it from failing again. I'd have
> to redo the heat muff - no big deal. The muffler and tailpipes came
> from Jabiru along with my 3300 engine.
>
> Hmmmm. I go through turbulence bumpier than my landings.
> Someday, hopefully, I'll have 633Z finished and able to put up with the
> way that I fly :) :). The mechanic at Rite Air said that homebuilts are
> a work in progress....
>
> Cheers, Joe
> N633Z @ BFI
> 54 hours
>
>
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