---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/24/04: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:46 AM - CO monitors (Thomas F Marson) 2. 05:15 AM - Axel Drilling and mounting (Jonathan Starke) 3. 06:11 AM - Re: PegaStol Wings (Larry Martin) 4. 06:33 AM - Re: Look at what Dave's up to: new website CH601.org (David Barth) 5. 06:35 AM - 601 Wing "Tip" Spar Tip Angle - 6-W-5 (Scott Laughlin) 6. 07:47 AM - Re: Axel Drilling and mounting (Jack Russell) 7. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: First-time Zodiac 601 builder questions? (Matthew) 8. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: Introductions, Thank you, and Web site Complement (Greg Lamoree) 9. 10:38 AM - Re: Axel Drilling and mounting (Bryan Martin) 10. 12:59 PM - I didn't hear the muffler fail, distinctly.... Re: CO (xl) 11. 02:26 PM - Re: Working with steel/building spars (Monty Graves) 12. 03:00 PM - Re: Working with steel/building spars (Cdngoose) 13. 05:28 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Rotax 912 UL () 14. 08:13 PM - Gotta see this! (Jon Croke) 15. 11:25 PM - Re: Axel Drilling and mounting (Jonathan Starke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:40 AM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Zenith-List: CO monitors --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" Pie Charts I have ordered a Aeromedix CO monitor for my plane. I have been wondering about the incident reported here where all the welds broke from he Jab 3300 engine and the muffler was found to be sitting on top of the heat muff. Then the pilot was warned of his problem through his CO monitor. What finally dawned on me is that if the muffler had completly disconnected from the engine was not there a large (or at least discernable) increase in sound that could be heard in the cockpit? Hope the pilot who reported this incident will tell us about this point. Tom Marson. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:54 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Zenith-List: Axel Drilling and mounting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Hi All, The Axels I received with my XL kit, are shamfered on two sides of the round mounting plate. I have looked thru the documentation, but can find no reference to the orientation of this shamfer, when mounting to the leg, nor the positioning on the leg. Can anyone shed some light on this, as I would like to get it right, as I intend mounting wheel spats later (Not ordered yet) Thks Zodiac XL - Completed: Rudder and Ailerons, Fusalage - About 50% of the way 912S is sitting in the box. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:25 AM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PegaStol Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" They are 1 1/4" thick, 3" wide and 90" long and they are aluminum. ----- Original Message ----- From: Winston Ellis To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 10:16 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: PegaStol Wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Winston Ellis Larry What size extrusion are your struts made from? Are they steel or aluminum? I have been thinking about using the aerodynamically shaped steel tube from Aircraft Spruce but wasn't sure what size. Winston Ellis Ketchum, Idaho CH701/Suzuki Larry Martin wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > > We finally started the PegaStol (Dedalius Aviation) wings last week.... > The struts are extruded for aerodynamics, not round tubes. > Like I said things may change as I move along, but for now, I am a happy camper. I'll keep the list posted. > > See Ya, Larry Martin N1345L > > --- > --- Version: 6.0.705 / Virus Database: 461 - Release Date: 6/12/2004 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:37 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Look at what Dave's up to: new website CH601.org --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Thank you Jon for the nice comments about http://www.ch601.org I have to be honest that Mark Townsend - a friend and member of this list for three years or more - has been the real driver with this webiste. He has a massive collection of everything even remotely related to Zenith projects and 601's in particular. Mark and I want to make 601.org a real portal for all things 601 AND have it be a place where listers can send articles or photos of elegant solutions to building issues. So please email us with your photos, links, websites and other items of interest. If your webiste isn't included - we just haven't done it yet - but we will. Let us know. thanks and drop by http://www.601.org david --- Jon Croke wrote: > Please.. I'll make this request on his behalf... > this only works with your > contribution of pictures, stories and helpful > building hints. One way > everyone can help is to at least submit your web > page address so visitors > have an easy one stop shopping list for seeing what > you are up to. This has > worked out well on the 701 site. > > Hats off to Dave for his effort so far! > > Jon > N701US > ===== David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Making Spars - ready for Chromate and riveting __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:00 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Wing "Tip" Spar Tip Angle - 6-W-5 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" Fellow 601XL builders: I've not seen this on the list before, and I noticed that Bill Sewell had the same problem (from his web site), so I thought I'd send out a "heads up." I have a wing "tip" for you. For those of you that have not completed your wings yet. It's not a major deal to fix, but it's a problem you can avoid. If you want to follow along, turn to drawing 6-W-5 on the top, right side labeled "Spar Tip." While following the ZAC drawings and manual they indicate you should install a short piece of "L" angle to the spar tip. The only problem is that ZAC doesn't tell you WHEN to install it. I installed the "L" brackets right away after I fabricated my spar tips. The PROBLEM is that four pages later in the drawings at 6-W-9 (and countless hours, days, weeks later) when you try to install the fiberglass wingtip and the aluminum portion of the tip, you will have a gap between the "L" angle and the fiberglass. The simple solution to this problem is to NOT install the "L" angle until the wing is finished and you have the wingtip angles (6-W-9 -6 and 7) installed. Now you can adjust the position of the "L" angle to be flush with the rest of the wingtip. If you want to pre-drill the spar tip, that would be a good idea, but there is room to fit a drill after the wing skins are in place. It's not a big deal to drill out the rivets for the "L" angle and install a new one, but hopefully this will save you a little time and frustration when completing your wings. Happy building, Scott Laughlin www.cooknwithgas.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:47:50 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Axel Drilling and mounting --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Jonathan: I went around with the axle placement for quite a while. I even asked nick about the placement and he sent me some long formula on how to locate the axle so the plane would be level. Then one of our members said he just mounted it flush with the bottom of the gear in the vertical (round side down). That is what I did and it worked out fine. Jack Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:58 AM PST US From: "Matthew" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: First-time Zodiac 601 builder questions? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew" I would not use a used seatbelt. Seatbelts are designed to stretch in an impact, and the stretching absorbs some of the energy from the impact. The stretching is a one-time event. Once the belt has stretched, it must be replaced. At least, that's my understanding of this issue. Others may have a more comprehensive understanding. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nhulin Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First-time Zodiac 601 builder questions? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" On: Tue Jun 22 - 7:29 PM, Trevor Page (webmaster@upac.ca) wrote: Hi folks, 1. The kit doesn't have any seat belts. I was thinking of going to an auto wreckers and picking up something out of a small car to use. My questions is, has anyone else done this? The baggage compartment floor is complete but clecoed and I thought now is the time to cut a slot in the floor to pass the ratchet anchor through it and bolt it to the fuselage bulkhead. Any thoughts on this? Advisable? Trevor, I didn't use the supplied seat belts but installed a harness. I have a PDF document that I will send you off-list. Basically it is the recommendations from the Zenair News #99 from March/April 1997. Mark also points out that a car seat belt may not be appropriate or acceptable. If any other Z-listers want a copy of the PDF, email me off-list. If there is enough interest I can post it to the photoshare or put it up on someone's web site. Tailwinds, ...neil 601XL/Corvair Fuselage and stuff --- Email certified virus free when sent from original author. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:21 AM PST US From: "Greg Lamoree" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Introductions, Thank you, and Web site Complement --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Lamoree" Gig, I know what you mean, and I'll try and hang in there. Thanks about the web site... I'm a programmer / software architect by trade. Michael, It's so exciting, getting into it!! Then I started to wonder what I got myself into... then it was exciting again! I think I'll be flip-flopping like that alot. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Gig Giacona" >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" > >Greg, > >Welcome to the family. Like with most families there will be times when you >want to say, "to hell with it", but stick in there. There is light at the >end of the tunnel. > >Thanks for the complement on my web site. Especially from someone that seem >to know something about web design. > Do Not Archive -- -------------------------- Greg Lamoree Zodiac 601 XL www.GregsPlane.com -------------------------- -- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Axel Drilling and mounting From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 6/24/04 8:19 AM, Jonathan Starke at jonathan@entry.co.za wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" > > Hi All, > > The Axels I received with my XL kit, are shamfered on two sides of the round > mounting > plate. I have looked thru the documentation, but can find no reference to the > orientation > of this shamfer, when mounting to the leg, nor the positioning on the leg. > > Can anyone shed some light on this, as I would like to get it right, as I > intend mounting > wheel spats later (Not ordered yet) > > Thks > Zodiac XL - Completed: Rudder and Ailerons, Fusalage - About 50% of the way > 912S is > sitting in the box. > I just mounted the axels with the flat side flush with the bottom of the gear leg and it worked out fine. I assembled the axel and brake calipers and held them against the gear leg to mark the location where everything would fit. I did have to round off the lower corners of the gear leg to allow clearance for the brake assembly. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Construction complete. Getting the paperwork in order. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:04 PM PST US From: xl monitors Subject: I didn't hear the muffler fail, distinctly.... Re: Zenith-List: CO monitors --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl Well, you asked the question that others and I had. I was wearing my $250 AvShop DNR headset approaching Seiku and I heard a change in the engine noise tone. In retrospec that may have been when the welds totally failed. I was wondering about the change so I switched to my Pilot headset (not DNR). Things sounded ok. And I noticed that the battery had run out in the AvShop headset. I was still in the air so I reasoned that the DNR headset had warbled. The DNR headset does change the tone of the noise. And sometimes it has strange oscillations. I plan to wear my Pilot from now on and let the passenger wear the AvShop. I don't want my sound picture filtered - given my experience. I have straight pipes on 633Z while I'm waiting for the new muffler. The muffler is covered by the warrantee. Jabiru shipped me one on Monday. The engine is not so much louder that you'd easily notice. Me and a friend flew to Cle Elum Tuesday evening. It was his 2nd flight and he commented that it was not much louder than with the muffler. At idle there is no difference. And when you're flying there is prop, wind and mechanical noise that competes with the exhaust sounds. I've flown Cessnas that fatigued me with the noise. 633Z exhaust sound (noise) with straight pipes is acceptable - in the cockpit. I don't know about behind and below. I do plan to be a good neighbor and put the new muffler on - even though it doesn't make much difference in the cockpit. Joe N633Z @ BFI 55 hours On Thu, 24 Jun 2004, Thomas F Marson wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" > I have been wondering about the incident reported here where all the welds broke from the Jab 3300 engine and the muffler was found to be sitting on top of the heat muff. Then the pilot was warned of his problem through his CO monitor. > > What finally dawned on me is that if the muffler had completly disconnected from the engine was not there a large (or at least discernable) increase in sound that could be heard in the cockpit? > > Hope the pilot who reported this incident will tell us about this point. > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:26:05 PM PST US From: Monty Graves Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Working with steel/building spars --> Zenith-List message posted by: Monty Graves Carlos and others, There is a tool called a Bench Mounted Hand dimpling/rivet tool. Its made by several aircraft tool companies, but AIRCRAFT TOOL SUPPLY has one, catalog part number 204, about $150-$175 US. I have a 2000 catalog and its $149 It works like the sledge hammer and punch BUT It excepts rivet squezze sets, and perfectly aligns the set so their is no chance the punch will wander off and nick the spar cap. I don't have one, but its on my wish list. I can send you a picture off list if you can't find a picture of one, and are interested. Monty At 12:53 PM 6/22/04 -0400, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > >Hello, Scott > > >The more I read your (and others) note, the more I realize I underestimated this little project. >I did cut 1/8" steel to make fluting pliers, and that wasn't too bad. >However, one quarter inch is another story altogether. > >I guess I'll just pratice a little more with the sledge hammer before tackling the spar. > >Best regards, and thanks for the input > >Carlos > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:41 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Working with steel/building spars --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> To All who are interested in this tool stay tuned, we are taking pictures and writing on how to build yourself one without wielding, all for under $30.00 Should appear soon on www.ch601.org . It work's better then the catalogue one and was made with your 601 spars in mind. Mark Townsend 601XL EJ 2.2L Alma, Ontario -----Original Message----- Carlos and others, There is a tool called a Bench Mounted Hand dimpling/rivet tool. Its made by several aircraft tool companies, but AIRCRAFT TOOL SUPPLY has one, catalog part number 204, about $150-$175 US. I have a 2000 catalog and its $149 It works like the sledge hammer and punch BUT It excepts rivet squezze sets, and perfectly aligns the set so their is no chance the punch will wander off and nick the spar cap. I don't have one, but its on my wish list. I can send you a picture off list if you can't find a picture of one, and are interested. Monty At 12:53 PM 6/22/04 -0400, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa > >Hello, Scott > > >The more I read your (and others) note, the more I realize I underestimated this little project. >I did cut 1/8" steel to make fluting pliers, and that wasn't too bad. >However, one quarter inch is another story altogether. > >I guess I'll just pratice a little more with the sledge hammer before tackling the spar. > >Best regards, and thanks for the input > >Carlos > == == == == ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:49 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Rotax 912 UL --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone, I once had a module "fail" during a mag check on run-up. Sent the module to Lockwood who found no fault but did send me a replacement. The replacement was also inoperative. I switched positions of the two modules (top for bottom) using the original "failed" unit and the problem went away. There is no logical explanation here, but I haven't had a problem in the succeeding 400 some-odd hours of operation. The only thought I have is that one of the connections must have been bad, however in troubleshooting the problem in the first place I must have connected and reconnected 6-8 times in the process of swapping coil, trigger, and module connections and the problem always followed the "failed" module. Regards, Brent Battles ALSO NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR ME IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED: brentbattles@earthlink.net --> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell Dear Listers, My CH601 HD went through an extensive Inspection of Condition and then I found that it would not run on one of the modules. It had 257 trouble free hours before I started the inspection. It is an experience just removing the modules. I sent them to Sebring for a check out. Also they are EXPENSIVE! I have never heard of anyone having trouble with one before. Being retired and not wealthy this is quite a set-back here. I have been fortunate to get this far, but now time is fleeting by and no flying. Hopefully, only one will be bad. Has anyone had this happen before? Cleone In Casey, Illinois > > From: Zenith-List Digest Server > Date: 2004/06/22 Tue AM 06:58:42 GMT > To: Zenith-List Digest List > Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 06/21/04 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:46 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: Gotta see this! --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" There is a side by side 601 and 701 in this picture... www.CH701.com Two questions: 1) if this was your school when growing up would your life be different? 2) The 701 is parked over a drain.... this is a VW engine and it leaks before it even runs? (just kidding) better do not archive! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:39 PM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Axel Drilling and mounting --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Thnx to all advice, the conclusion is that the axel placement is not critical, wrt to the rotation of the flange, and also the vertical mounting on the leg (within reason). Thnx