Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:54 AM - Re: Working with steel/building spars (Scott Laughlin)
2. 07:42 AM - 601HDS Project (George F May)
3. 01:35 PM - Pega-Stol Wings (Mark Sherman)
4. 05:32 PM - 601XL Build Order (Greg Lamoree)
5. 05:39 PM - 801: Cabin Side Skins (Scott and Valeree Stout)
6. 05:50 PM - Re: 601XL Build Order (Joemotis@aol.com)
7. 06:16 PM - Wheel Fairings and L angles (Greg Lamoree)
8. 06:38 PM - Re: 601XL Build Order (baileys)
9. 06:42 PM - cutting thick aluminum (Richard Vetterli)
10. 06:44 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings and L angles (Jim and Lucy)
11. 07:17 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings and L angles (Larry Martin)
12. 07:54 PM - Position of canopy hinge blocks (Bill Steer)
13. 08:09 PM - Re: cutting thick aluminum (Greg Lamoree)
14. 08:10 PM - Re: Wheel Fairings and L angles (Jim and Lucy)
15. 08:20 PM - Cordless Drill (Dave VanLanen)
16. 08:34 PM - Re: 601XL Build Order (Ray Montagne)
17. 08:50 PM - Re: Cordless Drill (Joemotis@aol.com)
18. 10:28 PM - Another bird in the air. (Michel Therrien)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Working with steel/building spars |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
I riveted my aileron bell crank solid rivets with a low-cost Harbor Freight
arbor press. Here's a photo:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/11_7_03_BellCrankRivet.JPG
For the bell cranks, you don't need any special heads, but I did purchase
some round rivet heads from avery tools for about $7 a pair. I haven't used
them yet.
Here's a link to the item:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3551
This item often goes on sale for $15.
I don't know what Mark Townsend is working on, but I'm sure it will be
clever and worth the wait to see what he comes up with.
Happy Building,
Scott Laughlin
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
To All who are interested in this tool stay tuned, we are taking
pictures and writing on how to build yourself one without wielding, all
for under $30.00
Mark Townsend
DO NOT ARCHIVE
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 2
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06/25/2004 10:42:04
2.1 BLANK_LINES_70_80 BODY: Message body has 70-80% blank lines
--> Zenith-List message posted by: George F May <gfmay@celestica.com>
Anyone looking for a 601HDS project check out :
www.donateyourplane.com/zodiac_ch_601.htm
George
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
Larry.
Glad to hear the quality of the Pega-Stol wing kit is
superior to Zenith. That, along with the quality
quick build and FWF kits from sky-shops. This will
help force ZAC to modernize their manufacturing
process.
In the March issue of Sport Aviation is an article
titled Looking For Lift. In it they discuss leading
edge slats. I quote the article. "Wind tunnel testing
by Fieseler showed that the drag of a carefully
located fixed slat was 65% higher than the airfoil
without a slat. This is a big penalty, but the
testing also showed that with the slat stowed, the
drag was still 60% higher that the clean airfoil. Not
surprisingly, Fieseler went with a fixed slat in
production."
It will be interesting to see if the increase in speed
advertised by Pega-Stol comes true. I will be looking
forward to your test flights.
Mark S.
701/912uls
hooking up insturments
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 4
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| Subject: | 601XL Build Order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Lamoree" <zenithlist@randomminds.com>
Ok... now that the introductions are over... I have my first question.
This is going to sound very simple, and I'm almost embarrassed to even ask, but....
What suggestions do you have on the "best" order to build the 601 XL?
I've completed the rudder (except for a few items that the instructions state to
leave until later), and I've started on the Horizontal Stabilizer. I had planned
to just start at the top of the PDF documents on the web page supplied on
the CD (and on the web site), but, from your experience, is this the best order?
Thank you in advance for your help.
--
--------------------------
Greg Lamoree
Zodiac 601 XL
www.GregsPlane.com
--------------------------
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | 801: Cabin Side Skins |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Scott and Valeree Stout <the_stouts@worldnet.att.net>
Hello All...
After the wing root skins the cabin side skins have to be one of the
most evil parts on the 801...
I think one of my skins is garbage. I think this as no matter how I
arrange the skin the firewall cut line is no where near the angle of the
firewall and it seems to come up short on the cabin frame tube.
Have others had this same problem? What did you do to solve the problem?
Any hints and suggestions are greatly appreciated...
Thanx...
-Scott
http://home.att.net/~the_stouts_zenith_801/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
I certainly could not say the "best" way but I am building the wings first,
then the horizontal stabilizer so that these items can be wrapped up and
stashed away. The rudder is being built off site by my Dad. The fuselage will
be
the last thing since it will be in the garage the longest and once the gear is
on it will be able to be rolled around so the garage can be used for other
things. I did build a lot of loft space in my 2 car garage and have
everything, except the canopy, stored up there. My plan with the completed wings
is to
put them on a rolling caddy in the backyard. Bill Sewell has a great site on
his 601XL that has a picture of this
_http://www.socaljunk.com/Dads%20Airplane%20Project/WebPages/CH601Main.htm_
(http://www.socaljunk.com/Dads%20Airplane%20Project/WebPages/CH601Main.htm)
Hope this helps and my one bit of advice is; do not drill into your finger,
it hurts and gets blood everywhere!
Good luck
Joe Motis
601Xl
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wheel Fairings and L angles |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Lamoree" <zenithlist@randomminds.com>
I'm sitting here, tonight, watching "From the Ground Up" on discovery wings, and
they showed a picture of the wheel fairings that came with another kit, and
it reminded me...
When I unpacked the wheel fairings from my kit, I noticed that they seemed VERY
rough. In fact, the two halves of each don't seem to line up very well, and
it will take quite a bit of some kind of filler to make a nice looking / smooth
fairing.
This didn't seem quite right to me, I thought that they should be in a bit better
shape. Of course I'm new to this whole thing, so I don't know... is this how
you all received yours?
Also... I was trying to inventory all the parts, and am not able to reconsile the
L angles. On one part of the inventory sheet it states that I should have
40. I have (I think) 38. But then on other areas of the inventory sheet is says
2 for this and 3 for that ans so on... are these in addition to the 40 on
the other page, or is it just parts of the summation?
I'm actually very happy with the condition of all the parts and how easy it was
to inventory. Just had these 2 issues.
I need to call Zenith anyway, because I'm missing a few bolts, and wanted to get
your take on this to see if I need to ask about these items as well.
--
--------------------------
Greg Lamoree
Zodiac 601 XL
www.GregsPlane.com
--------------------------
--
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" <baileys@ktis.net>
One thing to consider is the amount of storage space you have. The Fuselage
will take up the most room. You can hang the wings from the ceiling if need
be.
Bob B.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Lamoree" <zenithlist@randomminds.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Build Order
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Lamoree"
<zenithlist@randomminds.com>
>
> Ok... now that the introductions are over... I have my first question.
> This is going to sound very simple, and I'm almost embarrassed to even
ask, but....
>
> What suggestions do you have on the "best" order to build the 601 XL?
>
> I've completed the rudder (except for a few items that the instructions
state to leave until later), and I've started on the Horizontal Stabilizer.
I had planned to just start at the top of the PDF documents on the web page
supplied on the CD (and on the web site), but, from your experience, is this
the best order?
>
> Thank you in advance for your help.
>
>
> --
> --------------------------
> Greg Lamoree
> Zodiac 601 XL
> www.GregsPlane.com
> --------------------------
> --
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | cutting thick aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
What are people using to cut the thick stock when it's
an irregular shape? I'm stuck on the rear attachment
for the stabilizer on the 601XL. It's made from
channel stock and I need to trim the sides down. Hard
to get at it on the bandsaw and it kicks my dremmel
tool's butt. I'm still a novice at this and could use
some sage advise.
Thanks,
Rich Vetterli, San Leandro, CA
601XL W/ W.W. Corvair conversion
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel Fairings and L angles |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
Got my wheel fairings a couple years ago and just now installed them.
Mine had thousands of air bubbles under the gell coat from the size
of a pin head up to the size of a a pair of dollar coins side by side.
If you pressed down on the bigger bubbles the gell coat would break
out and leave a large void. A lot of filler and sanding fixed them
ok. There was also a cardboard bulkhead in the rear half that was
bonded in around the outside. The center of this was just bare
cardboard. One of them was put in so crooked that if hit the
tire when installed so I had to redo it. The center part of this
bulkhead was not fiber glassed over so it was just bare cardboard
that would have dissolved and fell out if it ever got wet. I covered
it up with a couple layers of fiberglass. I thought their glass man
was having a bad day when he built these. The dzeus fasteners I got
with them did not have enough reach to do up. I had to rebend all the
springs so they would mate up.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont.
At 09:15 PM 6/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>When I unpacked the wheel fairings from my kit, I noticed that they seemed
>VERY rough. In fact, the two halves of each don't seem to line up very
>well, and it will take quite a bit of some kind of filler to make a nice
>looking / smooth fairing.
>
>T--------------------
>Greg Lamoree
>Zodiac 601 XL
>www.GregsPlane.com
>--------------------------
>--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel Fairings and L angles |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <earthloc@att.net>
One question Jim, why did you accept them? You should have sent them back. I
do a lot of professional fiberglass work and I tell you that what you describe
is ridiculous. I've heard the same war stories about other fiberglass parts
Zenith provides. I don't know who does their fiberglass work, but it won't improve
as long as you and others let them get by with it. You pay good hard earned
money and you should get good work.
I know I'm on a soapbox, and I don't drink. But there is no excuse for the type
work you describe. There is a myth about fiberglassing. It is sticky stinky
work but is no skill involved, it is a simple process a 10 year could do.
I am in the process of building the plug for wheel pants for the 701. When I'm
done I will post pictures and will have a mold to make more. I plan on marketing
them and my belly pod at reasonable prices. The halves will mate up, there
will be no pin holes or air bubbles. You can do sorry work for yourself, but
not for others. The belly pod will be like the one on my plane at ch701.com.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim and Lucy
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Wheel Fairings and L angles
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
Got my wheel fairings a couple years ago and just now installed them.
Mine had thousands of air bubbles under the gell coat from the size
of a pin head up to the size of a a pair of dollar coins side by side.
If you pressed down on the bigger bubbles the gell coat would break
out and leave a large void. A lot of filler and sanding fixed them
ok. There was also a cardboard bulkhead in the rear half that was
bonded in around the outside. The center of this was just bare
cardboard. One of them was put in so crooked that if hit the
tire when installed so I had to redo it. The center part of this
bulkhead was not fiber glassed over so it was just bare cardboard
that would have dissolved and fell out if it ever got wet. I covered
it up with a couple layers of fiberglass. I thought their glass man
was having a bad day when he built these. The dzeus fasteners I got
with them did not have enough reach to do up. I had to rebend all the
springs so they would mate up.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont.
At 09:15 PM 6/25/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>When I unpacked the wheel fairings from my kit, I noticed that they seemed
>VERY rough. In fact, the two halves of each don't seem to line up very
>well, and it will take quite a bit of some kind of filler to make a nice
>looking / smooth fairing.
>
>T--------------------
>Greg Lamoree
>Zodiac 601 XL
>www.GregsPlane.com
>--------------------------
>--
---
Version: 6.0.705 / Virus Database: 461 - Release Date: 6/12/2004
Message 12
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| Subject: | Position of canopy hinge blocks |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
I'm just starting on the canopy for my 601HD and am concerned about the lateral
position of the canopy hinge blocks. The blocks, from ZAC, have the "holes"
offset from the center, as shown in the sketch above the lock handle on 6-E-2,
with about 5 mm of block outside the outer edge of the tube. If I position the
block so the outer edge is flush with the outside of the skin, the hole for
the machine screw is only 5 mm from the inside edge of the top longeron.
What have you experts done? How many mm are the holes from the outside of the
skin, for example?
Thanks for your help.
Bill
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: cutting thick aluminum |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Lamoree" <zenithlist@randomminds.com>
I just finished cutting that piece.
I started with an aircompressor cut-off tool for the sides, then tried to use the
shears for the notch in the middle (not a good idea). I tried the cut-off
tool again, but couldn't make the turn... then ended up with the Dremel... and
yea... really have to have a firm / steady hand to avoid those kickbacks... I
clamped it down and used both hands to be steady. It was a very ugly cut, that
was made pritty with a rasp / file.
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
>
>What are people using to cut the thick stock when it's
>an irregular shape? I'm stuck on the rear attachment
>for the stabilizer on the 601XL. It's made from
>channel stock and I need to trim the sides down. Hard
>to get at it on the bandsaw and it kicks my dremmel
>tool's butt. I'm still a novice at this and could use
>some sage advise.
>Thanks,
>Rich Vetterli, San Leandro, CA
>601XL W/ W.W. Corvair conversion
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
--
--------------------------
Greg Lamoree
Zodiac 601 XL
www.GregsPlane.com
--------------------------
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel Fairings and L angles |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
At 09:16 PM 6/25/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>You should have sent them back.
The main reason was I bought them in 1999 and never got
to installing them until recently. I also decided to
practice on them with the thought that if it went well
i may attempt to make a cowl for the soob. I should
have checked them beter when I got them but they
got put aside and the problems showed up much later.
Jim Pollard
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Hello,
My name is Dave Van Lanen. I am interested in the Zenith 601 series
aircraft, and am currently evaluating whether I want to build one of these
kits.
In the meantime, I have a more immediate question. My old cordless drill
died, and I am going to purchase a new one. I decided to look on the Zenith
website at tool requirements, to make sure that I purchase a drill that will
work for the construction of a Zenith. The website recommends an electric
drill with 2500+ RPM, and I further learned from the company that I should
be looking for the lightest drill possible, and that a cordless drill is
preferred.
In shopping for such a drill, I learned that the highest RPM available in a
cordless is about 2000 RPM, and these drills are large, heavy, and expensive
($270 to $400). The smaller, lighter cordless drills have speeds under 1000
RPM. The only drills I can find that meet the above requirements are A/C
(plug-in) drills.
I would appreciate any information that you could provide me on what drills
Zenith builders have found to meet these requirements, and that work well
for them.
Thank you.
Dave Van Lanen
davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net
Madison, WI
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Build Order |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 6/25/04 5:31 PM, "Greg Lamoree" <zenithlist@randomminds.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Lamoree" <zenithlist@randomminds.com>
>
> What suggestions do you have on the "best" order to build the 601 XL?
>
Hi Greg,
I agree with some of the other comments that space has a considerable impact
on what is possible with build order. I've got very small work area
available and built:
1. Rudder
2. Stablizer
3. Elevator
4. Ailerons
5. Flaps
6. Wings
I'm currently working on the fuselage.
After completing each wing, I was able to construct a shelf in the original
crate and slide the completed wing back into the crate. They protrude from
the crate at the wing root but for the most part are out of the way...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cordless Drill |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Pneumatic! And be prepared to buy a whole lot more than what ZAC recommends.
Clecoes(lots) rivet fans, right angle drill for some of the tight spots,
metric rulers, 2 hand riveters (unless you want to change heads every time you
turn around) and 2 pneumatic drills because it is a pain to keep changing bits
and lots of clamps, sharpies by the box (the fine line wears out fast) and
if you are going to prime the entire airframe some kind of spray setup. And
that is the short list. Hole saws, instrument punches, crimping tools, crimper
for control cables,soldering iron and a lot of this type equipment can
sometimes be borrowed but sometimes it is easier just to buy it. And, do not forget
a good vise and a drill press is nice, also good lighting is very important.
Now I am sure that some of the comments will say you can build it with a
rock and a tape measure, IMHO, the better equipped that you are, the better (and
less frustrating) the construction process goes.
Joe Motis
601XL
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Another bird in the air. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Hello gang!
Well, friday at 9h15, another plane defied gravity.
The last few weeks that followed the final inspection
and flight authorization (received on June 8), have
been fairly difficult. I discovered on June 13, that
my engine mount was a piece of crap! Too flexible,
design error. While that sounded like a major
setback, I called somebody who knows a bit more than
me about aircrafts and he found a way to modify the
mount directly on site without removing the engine
(see my web page for this). The modification was done
on Tuesday this week and I spent the evening and part
of night on Wednesday to reposition the hoses and
wires and attach everything under the cowl. So there
it is, at 1h37am Thursday, the plane was
"serviceable".
Friday morning, my test pilot and I met at the airport
at 07h40. He spent time inspecting the work and
modification. I explained him the systems (mainly the
EIS). He paid special attention to the controls. We
checked the engine on the ground (including the
timing). Then, at around 9h00, we taxied the aircraft
to the runway where he made a few acceleration tests.
At 9h15, he announced "Zulu Gulf Quebec. Will take off
from 29 and stay in the circuit" (the verbage was in
french). Before I could set the camera to take
pictures, the plane was already in the air! (and i did
not see it taking off!).
The flight lasted 35 minutes. Pilot commented that
the rpm is a bit low at 4400 rpm on takeoff. We
readjusted the propeller to a picth of 12 degrees (at
the tip of the blade). He also commented that the
engine does not get warm enough (yes, you read
right!). While he his happy with water temp at 180F
(thermostat temp), he does not like that the oil temp
does not go beyond 160F. We covered the oil cooler
with duct tape.
He went back for another half hour. Great! He now
gets 4950 rpm on takeoff, climbing at 800fpm. Later,
he check ascent rate and climbed at 1300fpm. Water
temp increased to 188F (part of radiator blocked by
the covered oil cooler). Oil temp climbed to 175F.
The then made a third flight later so we recorded 1h25
to the Journey Log.
The pilot commented that my rudder is very sensitive
(compared to his--he owns a CH601-HD as well). And I
seem to have that heavy left wing problem that many
people had... but this needs to be confirmed.
Five years ago, I did not know how to hold a drill,
three years ago, the most mechanic work I've done was
to change the oil in a lawn mowing machine... now, I
built an aircraft that flies! I want to thank
everyone who supported me during this process. I'm
glad that we have this forum to exchange and help each
other. Without support, this project would have been
forgotten a long time ago.
Aircraft: CH601-HD, TTSN 1h25
Engine: self-rebuilt Subaru EA-81, dual ignition
(Nippodenso/GM), Reduction belt redrive
Propeller: Warp Drive std blades, HP hub, SAE1 pattern
Michel :-)
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
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