---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/05/04: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:00 AM - Powder Coating (Jonathan Starke) 2. 01:13 PM - Re: Powder Coating (jnbolding1) 3. 03:56 PM - wanted 701 (owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com) 4. 04:05 PM - Re: Powder Coating (Dave Austin) 5. 05:56 PM - Re: Powder Coating (Gary Liming) 6. 06:51 PM - 601XL FWF weight savings with TD option? (Mitch Hines) 7. 07:26 PM - Re: 601XL FWF weight savings with TD option? (Ron DeWees) 8. 07:34 PM - WigWags (Larry Martin) 9. 08:52 PM - NAV Antenna & Venturi mounting location (wizard-24@juno.com) 10. 09:24 PM - FAQ help (Cdngoose) 11. 09:34 PM - Re: Check valves with Facet pumps (Joemotis@aol.com) 12. 10:04 PM - Re: Powder Coating (Peter Dunning) 13. 10:37 PM - Re: NAV Antenna & Venturi mounting location (Ray Montagne) 14. 10:43 PM - Re: Check valves with Facet pumps (Bryan Martin) 15. 11:02 PM - Re: NAV Antenna & Venturi mounting location (Bryan Martin) 16. 11:16 PM - Re: Check valves with Facet pumps (Thomas F Marson) 17. 11:30 PM - Re: WigWags () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:00:54 AM PST US From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Zenith-List: Powder Coating --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jonathan Starke" Hi all boffins, I have a simple question about powder coating? Is it advised on the engine mount, nose leg etc... And if it is, what does one do about the canopy support that already have the latches welded to the steel supports, as well as the aileron torque rod, that has the aluminium bearing attached? What does the heat of powder coating do to the steel, if anything? Your advice greatly appreciated... Jonathan Starke Zodiac busy with fusalage... ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:13:11 PM PST US From: "jnbolding1" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Powder Coating --> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" I have a simple question about powder coating? Is it advised on the engine mount, nose >leg etc... And if it is, what does one do about the canopy support that already have the >latches welded to the steel supports, as well as the aileron torque rod, that has the >aluminium bearing attached? If you cant get all the hardware off you either have to mask with something that will take the temp. that it takes to cure whatever powder you are using or you have to clean it off when complete , not fun , adhesion is one of the strong points of powder, Talk to the coater, there were powders in the low 300s when I quit selling the equipment 4 yrs ago. What does the heat of powder coating do to the steel, if anything? Nothing , its welded at melting temp of the metal so 300/400 degrees F arent going to hurt it. John Bolding ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:17 PM PST US From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Zenith-List: wanted 701 BLANK_LINES_80_90@matronics.com, BODY:, Message@matronics.com, body@matronics.com, has@matronics.com, blank@matronics.com, lines@matronics.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:37 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Powder Coating --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" Ref the powder coating of an engine mount. IMHO and others, you should not powder coat. It prevents you from detecting cracks at their early stages. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:27 PM PST US From: Gary Liming Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Powder Coating --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Liming > >I have a simple question about powder coating? Is it advised on the engine >mount, nose >leg etc... And if it is, what does one do about the canopy support that >already have the >latches welded to the steel supports, as well as the aileron torque rod, >that has the >aluminium bearing attached? > >What does the heat of powder coating do to the steel, if anything? Powder coating provides a very tough surface, better than paint, and comes with a variety of colors and resins. It usually requires 400-450 degrees (I use a dedicated toaster oven which works just fine.) 450 is not going to affect the temper of steel, but it will negatively affect the temper of aluminum, so you can't use it on any structural aluminum. You can mask off the areas you don't want coated, and remove the masking before firing, but you have to very careful not to disturb the electrostatically deposited powder. Some claim that powder coating the engine mount might hide developing cracks, but this is true for paint as well, since either one can be applied at whatever thickness you want. For this reason, I think that using white or some light color that more readily shows a crack works better than a dark color. Just my 2 cents, Gary Liming ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:16 PM PST US From: Mitch Hines Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL FWF weight savings with TD option? (not processed: message from valid local sender) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mitch Hines Hello, I've been lurking on the list for awhile, there is a wealth of information here. And I am very interested in following WW's progress with his Corvair powered 60lXL Ths may have been discussed but I could not find it in the archives and although i summited the question to ZAC via the form on their website, I have not gotten a rely yet. I was wondering what FWF weight saving you would get by selecting the tail dragger option instead of the tri-gear on the XL. Thoughts? Thanks, Mitch - Mitch Hines Alon A-2 Aircoupe N6369V Flight by machines heavier than air is unpractical and insignificant, if not utterly impossible. - Simon Newcomb, 1902 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:32 PM PST US From: "Ron DeWees" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL FWF weight savings with TD option? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" HI Mitch, I am building a 601 HDS TD and I have looked at the stack of nosegear parts that I am omitting. THere is a lot of weight and drag in the nosewheel assembly. I would conservatively guess 15# minimum, but the advantage doesn't stop there. The firewall is much less cluttered and made my airbox much easier to mount. With a heavy motor such as the Corvair (at least compared to Jabs and Rotax) cutting back a bit of weight in front is a good thing to do. You sure don't want to have to add even more weight to the tail to offset the motor. Just my experience, so far. Ron N601TD do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Hines" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL FWF weight savings with TD option? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mitch Hines > > > Hello, > > I've been lurking on the list for awhile, there is a wealth of information > here. And I am very interested in following WW's progress with his Corvair > powered 60lXL > > Ths may have been discussed but I could not find it in the archives and > although i summited the question to ZAC via the form on their website, I have > not gotten a rely yet. > > I was wondering what FWF weight saving you would get by selecting the tail > dragger option instead of the tri-gear on the XL. Thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Mitch > > - > Mitch Hines > Alon A-2 Aircoupe > N6369V ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:43 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Zenith-List: WigWags --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" I got an e-mail from Tom Orsborn concerning the effect of the lifecycle of the lamps when wigwagging. He said his post on this list didn't take. Tom, I replied to your e-mail and it bounced, so check your end. Anyway to answer the question. I don't think (I said think) it will affect the life cycle simply because the lamps don't have time to heat up and it's heat that eventually causes them to fail. But, of course everything only works so long anyway. Larry Martin, N1345L Take a look at my site. Larry's 701 --- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: NAV Antenna & Venturi mounting location From: wizard-24@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com Would love advice on the following: 1. The NAV antenna in most planes seems to be mounted in the vertical tail....however, in the 601, there's not enough room for a clean installation. Can this antenna be mounted on the bottom of the fuselage, back in the tail section instead? By the way, the antenna I'm referring to is the v-shaped NAV used for VORs. Remember VOR's? :) 2. Can the venturi be mounted on the bottom of the fuselage in the middle (directly under the area just aft of the rudder pedals)? Remember venturis? :) Thanks in advance. Mike Fortunato 601XL ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:26 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: FAQ help --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Hi Guys Over the years a lot of questions have been asked over and over again, most of us don't have a problem as we have all been there and done that before. But I thought a builder FAQ would be a good idea for our website! Only problem is I'm drawing a blank on a lot of those questions ( must be the late at night thing/ or the ringing in my ears from banging all the solid rivets in the spars yesterday!). SO could you drop me an E-Mail with a reminder of the most frequent questions. I'll look up the general consensus for the answers and then post the FAQ on the www.ch601.org site. Please send all questions to moderator@CH601.org Do not archive Mark Townsend 601XL EJ 2.2L Alma, Ontario www.ch601.org ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:27 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Check valves with Facet pumps --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Greetings listers I am putting my Facet pumps between NR 2 and 3 in my 601XL. Would it be acceptable to put the check valves inside the fuselage, about a foot and a half from the pump, locating them at the valve? Joe Motis 601XL do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:27 PM PST US From: "Peter Dunning" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Powder Coating --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Dunning" Hi Jonathan I had the experience of seeing the effect of powder coating used on a Challenger ultralight where the redrive assy had been powder coated. When initially installed everything was torqued up correctly but no-one expected the powder coating to cause a near accident. When flown for just a short time, the bolts securing the redrive came loose due to the migration of the powder coating under sustained mounting bolt pressure (and vibration) and the belt drive wore down dramatically with the revised arc of the prop coming very close to fixed components. It could be said that the powder coating was too thick, but I cannot recommend powder coating on engine mounts. Stick with a minimum coat of paint. Hope this helps. Fly safe Peter Dunning CH601HD /912S (snailworks) NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Starke" Subject: Zenith-List: Powder Coating ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NAV Antenna & Venturi mounting location From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 7/5/04 8:39 PM, "wizard-24@juno.com" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com > > > Would love advice on the following: > > 1. The NAV antenna in most planes seems to be mounted in the > vertical tail....however, in the 601, there's not enough room for a clean > installation. Can this antenna be mounted on the bottom of the fuselage, > back in the tail section instead? By the way, the antenna I'm referring > to is the v-shaped NAV used for VORs. Remember VOR's? :) The VOR antenna is never mounted vertically. I'm installing a VOR / Glideslope "V" on top of the rudder which is usually where you'll find it on most other aircraft. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:35 PM PST US From: "Bryan Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Check valves with Facet pumps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bryan Martin" ----- Original Message ----- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com > > Greetings listers > I am putting my Facet pumps between NR 2 and 3 in my 601XL. Would it be > acceptable to put the check valves inside the fuselage, about a foot and a half > from the pump, locating them at the valve? > > Joe Motis > 601XL > do not archive There shouldn't be any problem with that. Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Construction complete. Waiting on the paperwork. do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:32 PM PST US From: "Bryan Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: NAV Antenna & Venturi mounting location --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bryan Martin" ----- Original Message ----- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com > > > Would love advice on the following: > > 1. The NAV antenna in most planes seems to be mounted in the > vertical tail....however, in the 601, there's not enough room for a clean > installation. Can this antenna be mounted on the bottom of the fuselage, > back in the tail section instead? By the way, the antenna I'm referring > to is the v-shaped NAV used for VORs. Remember VOR's? :) > > Thanks in advance. > > Mike Fortunato > 601XL I have my VOR antenna mounted on the vertical tail, but then my antenna is homemade and was designed to fit there. I've also seen them mounted at the end of a vertical mast on top of the fuselage, probably to prevent the fuselage from shadowing the antenna. The VOR antenna may need some seperation from hroizontal surfaces for better reception but I'm not sure of this. Since the VOR signal is coming from the ground, the antenna may work fine on the bottom of the fuselage. You will have to make sure any antennas mounted on the belly can't drag the ground when the nose is high during take-off or landing. You might try asking this question on the aeroelectric list at Matronics or on usenet rec.aviation.homebuilt if you have a news account. Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Construction complete. Waiting on the paperwork. do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:51 PM PST US From: "Thomas F Marson" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Check valves with Facet pumps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thomas F Marson" The Facet pumps have an internal check valve. Do you need another? Tom ----- Original Message ----- > Greetings listers > I am putting my Facet pumps between NR 2 and 3 in my 601XL. Would it be > acceptable to put the check valves inside the fuselage, about a foot and a half > from the pump, locating them at the valve? > > Joe Motis > 601XL > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:18 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: WigWags From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Larry, perhaps rather because they do not have time to cool... It is typically the high inrush current on the cold filament that kills bulbs, so arranging a parallell path past the switching to allow some standby current flow is a good idea. The lamps will then also allow a higher rate of wig-wag. rgrds, Max RE -> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" > I got an e-mail from Tom Orsborn concerning the effect of the > lifecycle of the lamps when wigwagging. > Anyway to answer the question. I don't think it will affect > the life cycle simply because the lamps don't have time to heat up > and it's heat that eventually causes them to fail. > But, of course everything only works so long anyway.