Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Re: fuel sender in header tank question (Scott Laughlin)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: Nav Antenna Placement (Phil Raker)
3. 06:55 AM - Re: fuel sender in header tank question (Trevor Page)
4. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Nav Antenna Placement (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
5. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Nav Antenna Placement (Ray Montagne)
6. 11:07 PM - Pitot Heat (Ray Montagne)
7. 11:40 PM - Re: Pitot Heat (Chip W. Erwin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | fuel sender in header tank question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Hello Trevor:
I made an internal flange from 1/8" 6061-T6 aluminum. I just cut out a hole
with a hole saw on my drill and kept the "hole" part. (I can't remember
what size, but it was about the same size as the top of the sending unit.)
A small hole was cut first with a smaller hole saw to allow the sending unit
to go through.
Then I cut a "wedge" in the circle so it would fit in the hole I cut for the
tank. I then carefully marked the hole locations and drilled and tapped for
machine screws I picked up a Lowes.
Next I Marked the holes in the tank top, and drilled slightly larger holes
for the mounting screws. I then had to position the flange on the inside
and glue it on place. It just has to hold long enough to get the sender in
place and screwed.
The sender had to be carefully modified to work correctly in the top, but
you need to do this also if it is mounted on the side. Here' s a photo of
the parts just before installation:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG
I did this twice (two wing tanks) and it was much easier the second time
around. Here's what it looks like with the hole in the wing:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_30_04_Wingholes.JPG
I used "liquid steel" which is sort of a shoe-goo type product from Wal-Mart
or Lowes, then put duct tape over it to further protect against chafing. I
had to grind down the center post and also remove one of the nuts - there
are two on top - and I had enough clearance to not need a dome-type access
plate. Here's what it looks like with the plate clecod in place:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_Access.JPG
The only caution I will add is that my sending unit wasn't getting a good
ground, so I took it all apart and welded the extension arm to the top part.
The two parts are supposed to make contact, but there's a rubber insulator
on my sending units that allows a little separation. I installed and
removed the unit in each tank several times before I got it just right so it
would read empty and full all the way to the stops on the gauge. You will
want to use your gauge for this test with a 12v power supply before closing
everything up.
Good luck!
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
I've purchased a fuel sender (with float) and fuel gauge similar to a
VDO unit but I'm worried about the gasket seal on this thing.
I'm considering the side-mounted installation but that thin cork gasket and
lack of an
internal "flange" makes me think this thing will leak.
Trevor
download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Nav Antenna Placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
< The VOR antenna is omnidirectional, it receives equally well from all
< directions. Mounting a VOR antenna on a moving surface will have
< no impact on nav acuracy. All of the directional information is contained in
< the transmitted signal, the direction the receiving antenna is pointed has
< no effect on the signal at all as long as the antenna is not shadowed by
< other aircraft structure.
Bryan:
I understand that much of the theory regarding VORs. That's at least part
of why VOR antennas are often just a simple whip type, or a variation on it. I
thought he was referring to the "cat whisker" or "pair of towell bars" type of
antenna, which is (I believe) usually used to recieve localizer &/or glideslope
signals. How is their accuracy affected by mounting on an all-flying tail?
I've never seen that done. Only on an un-moving stabilizer. Has anyone
actually flown with the localizer/glideslope antenna mounted on an all-flying
tail? I woudn't expect it to have any effect on glideslope, since pitch
wouldn't be effected by rudder, but I don't know about the localizer. How does
it actually work in practice; not just in theory? I don't want to be the first
one to try it, only to find that the localizer indication changes every time I
kick a rudder pedal.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% complete (avionics yet to come)
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: fuel sender in header tank question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Thanks Scott, your circle with the cut out is is a clever little trick
and just what I need to make a proper backing plate.
I fell better about doing a side mount now!
Trevor
On Jul 7, 2004, at 9:12 AM, Scott Laughlin wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Hello Trevor:
>
> I made an internal flange from 1/8" 6061-T6 aluminum. I just cut out
> a hole
> with a hole saw on my drill and kept the "hole" part. (I can't
> remember
> what size, but it was about the same size as the top of the sending
> unit.)
> A small hole was cut first with a smaller hole saw to allow the
> sending unit
> to go through.
>
> Then I cut a "wedge" in the circle so it would fit in the hole I cut
> for the
> tank. I then carefully marked the hole locations and drilled and
> tapped for
> machine screws I picked up a Lowes.
>
> Next I Marked the holes in the tank top, and drilled slightly larger
> holes
> for the mounting screws. I then had to position the flange on the
> inside
> and glue it on place. It just has to hold long enough to get the
> sender in
> place and screwed.
>
> The sender had to be carefully modified to work correctly in the top,
> but
> you need to do this also if it is mounted on the side. Here' s a
> photo of
> the parts just before installation:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_5_03_SenderParts.JPG
>
> I did this twice (two wing tanks) and it was much easier the second
> time
> around. Here's what it looks like with the hole in the wing:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/5_30_04_Wingholes.JPG
>
> I used "liquid steel" which is sort of a shoe-goo type product from
> Wal-Mart
> or Lowes, then put duct tape over it to further protect against
> chafing. I
> had to grind down the center post and also remove one of the nuts -
> there
> are two on top - and I had enough clearance to not need a dome-type
> access
> plate. Here's what it looks like with the plate clecod in place:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_Access.JPG
>
> The only caution I will add is that my sending unit wasn't getting a
> good
> ground, so I took it all apart and welded the extension arm to the top
> part.
> The two parts are supposed to make contact, but there's a rubber
> insulator
> on my sending units that allows a little separation. I installed and
> removed the unit in each tank several times before I got it just right
> so it
> would read empty and full all the way to the stops on the gauge. You
> will
> want to use your gauge for this test with a 12v power supply before
> closing
> everything up.
>
>
> Good luck!
>
> Scott Laughlin
> www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
>
> I've purchased a fuel sender (with float) and fuel gauge similar to a
> VDO unit but I'm worried about the gasket seal on this thing.
>
> I'm considering the side-mounted installation but that thin cork
> gasket and
> lack of an
> internal "flange" makes me think this thing will leak.
>
> Trevor
>
> download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Nav Antenna Placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
VOR antennas are not simple whip type antennas. VOR antennas are half-wave dipole
antennas that are horizontally polarized. They are composed of two quarter-wave
elements mounted end to end and fed from the center point of the pair. These
are the "cat-whisker" or "towel bar" antennas you mentioned and are the ones
I was referring to in my post. The only reason these antennas are mounted at
the top of some vertical structure on the airplane is th get them clear of other
aircraft structure to give them a clear view of the horizon. The VOR antenna
is also used for receiving ILS signals as these signals are in the same band
as VOR. They are also generally used to receive the glide slope signal since
this signal has very close to one third the wavelength of a VOR signal and is
also horizontally polarized (a 3/4 wave antenna is just as good as a 1/4 wave
antenna). The only reason you haven't seen them attached to movable surfaces
is very few aircraft are designed with all-moving ve
rtical tails.
These antennas have no directional properties of any significance. If they did,
an aircraft on final approach that was crabbed left into a left cross-wind would
receive a different signal than an aircraft that was crabbed right into a
right cross-wind. The signal would also change when the aircraft turned left or
right to stay on the beam. If yawing the airplane has no effect on the signal
then moving a rudder with an attached antenna won't either. An airplane will
receive the same information from a VOR or ILS regardless of which direction
the airplane and therefore the antenna is pointed.
--
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Construction complete.
Waiting on the paperwork.
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
>
> Bryan:
> I understand that much of the theory regarding VORs. That's at least part
> of why VOR antennas are often just a simple whip type, or a variation on it.
I
> thought he was referring to the "cat whisker" or "pair of towell bars" type of
> antenna, which is (I believe) usually used to recieve localizer &/or glideslope
> signals. How is their accuracy affected by mounting on an all-flying tail?
> I've never seen that done. Only on an un-moving stabilizer. Has anyone
> actually flown with the localizer/glideslope antenna mounted on an all-flying
> tail? I woudn't expect it to have any effect on glideslope, since pitch
> wouldn't be effected by rudder, but I don't know about the localizer. How does
> it actually work in practice; not just in theory? I don't want to be the first
> one to try it, only to find that the localizer indication changes every time
I
> kick a rudder pedal.
>
> Phil Raker N556P
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Nav Antenna Placement |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/7/04 11:09 AM, "bryanmmartin@comcast.net" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
>
> VOR antennas are not simple whip type antennas. VOR antennas are half-wave
> dipole antennas that are horizontally polarized.
Well said! One thing to add is that the "V" configuration provides an
omni-directional radiation pattern where a conventional dipole would provide
a bidirectional radiation patter.
> These are the "cat-whisker" or "towel bar" antennas you mentioned and
> are the ones I was referring to in my post.
Another thing to note is that the towel bar antennas are significantly more
expensive than the "V-Dipole" antennas.
> The VOR antenna is also used for receiving ILS signals as these signals are in
> the same band as VOR.
The VOR signal is not in the same band as the glide slope. A VOR is in the
VHF band and operates between 108 and 118 mHz while the glide slope is in
the UHF band and operates around 330 mHz. Even if the glide slope was 30
mHz lower in frequency, dropping it into the VHF band, the requirements for
antenna lengths due to the differences in frequency are so significant that
a common antenna would not be possible without special matching circuitry
that provides a good match to the receiver antenna input impedance as well
as low loss. A standard VOR antenna without designed in glide slope support
cannot be expected to operate correctly in a glide slope application.
Further, an external circuit (splitter/diplexer) is required to match the
two feed lines from the two (VOR & glide slope) receivers to a common
antenna.
> They are also generally used to receive the glide slope
> signal since this signal has very close to one third the wavelength of a VOR
> signal and is also horizontally polarized (a 3/4 wave antenna is just as good
> as a 1/4 wave antenna).
A 3/4 wavelength antenna will require matching circuitry to match to a 50
ohm impedance receiver antenna connection. Further, a 3/4 wavelength
antenna will provide some gain and when horizontally polarized will also
tend to make the radiation pattern somewhat directional. The lobes are
focused through the physical orientation of the antenna segments to provide
a predominant forward/rearward pattern.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
I was extremely surprised to find that heated pitot tubes have doubled in
price recently (both Aircraft Spruce and Chief). Anyone know of an
inexpensive source for heated pitot heads?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W. Erwin" <aircraft@czaw.cz>
I HAVE A FEW EXTRA 12V HEATED PITOT IN STOCK
CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS
LUCNI 1824
686 02
STARE MESTO, CZECH REPUBLIC
TEL: +420 572 543 456
FAX: +420 572 543 692
USA FAX: 772-264-0936
E-MAIL: AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ
WWW.AIRPLANE.CZ
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Montagne
Subject: Zenith-List: Pitot Heat
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
I was extremely surprised to find that heated pitot tubes have doubled in
price recently (both Aircraft Spruce and Chief). Anyone know of an
inexpensive source for heated pitot heads?
---
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