Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:52 AM - 601 empty weight 556 lb (Chris Weber)
2. 06:04 AM - Re: Zodiac stall speeds. (Cleone Markwell)
3. 09:07 AM - HD's & VG's (The Meiste's)
4. 09:48 AM - I need 601 XL wings (Brett)
5. 10:55 AM - Re: Zodiac stall speeds. (Rick)
6. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Concerns About Suitability Of 601 HD (Dave VanLanen)
7. 12:51 PM - Re: Re: Concerns About Suitability Of 601 HD (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
8. 03:17 PM - VDO sender (Brandon Tucker)
9. 04:03 PM - Re: VDO sender (Bill Steer)
10. 05:26 PM - Re: VDO sender (Ray Montagne)
11. 05:50 PM - 701 & 912S throttle control (rbauer@intergate.com)
12. 07:38 PM - invitation for innovations (Bob Miller)
13. 07:51 PM - Re: invitation for innovations (Cdngoose)
14. 07:56 PM - Re: invitation for innovations (Joemotis@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 601 empty weight 556 lb |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Weber" <chrisoz@gmx.net>
Hi Mark,
my first kitbuilt Zodiac weighed 556 lb with oil and coolant in the Rotax
912, so it is possible.
My second one was 695 though, with EA81 and BRS, scratchbuilding lures you
to beef everything up a bit.
In Germany the all up weight in the ultralight class is only 980 lb, and the
stall speed 41 knots, and these guys are fitting spoiler flaps to the bottom
of the centre section, to achieve that. So there is a way to get the 601
stall slower.
No concern of mine, we have 1180 lb and 50 miles in Australia :-)
Cheers,
Chris
> Just one small point to add! Has ANYONE seen a HD that weights 590 lbs?
> The 690 I can believe for the XL (But not My XL).
>
> Mark Townsend
> 601XL EJ 2.2L
> Alma, Ontario
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac stall speeds. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Cleone Markwell <cleone@rr1.net>
Good questions George. As you know, I have static ports on each side of
the fush. and find my onset to the stall is just shy of 50 mph. straight
and level. Also I have an angle of attack indicator on the panel which I
rely on also. The factory planes do not have static ports and I can show
that there is somewhere around 10 mph difference. Cleone (HD, 257 hrs.)
At 10:56 PM 7/10/04, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
>One thing to consider on the subject of stall speeds: Most Zodiac builders
>seem to have found quite a discrepancy between the actual cruise speed and
>the factory numbers, particularly on the HD and HDS models. If the reason
>is static source error, as I suspect, the quoted stall speeds must also be
>in error. What is needed is for someone with their ASI static port plumbed
>to static ports on the fuselage or pitot head to do some careful power-off
>stall tests at a known weight, CG location, temperature, pressure and
>altitude. Has someone already done such tests? If so ,what are the numbers?
>
>George Swinford
>
>
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "The Meiste's" <meiste@essex1.com>
Dan,
My Stratus powered HD seems to have a relatively high stall speed. My plane
is typically 950 lbs in my flying configuration (716 empty). My plane will
start stalling right at 55 MPH, and around 60 MPH when loaded to approx 1200
lbs. I've even gone as far as deflecting my ailerons more than they should
be but that only made a difference on 1 or 2 MPH on the stall speeds. I
asked Nick & Chris about adding VG's but as Larry noted they did not think
it would help much. I've just recently made a set of VG's for my HD's wings
and will attach them soon to see for myself if they have any promise or not.
One other thing I was going to try if the VG's fail to do the trick is a
thing called a "Gurney Flap". I also asked Nick about this, he & Chris
thought this "may" work. It consist of a length of an "L" about an inch high
attached to the trailing edge of the wing. It acts as a small flap which is
always defected. It will case some added drag on the plane but like many HD
pilots speed is not my top priority. FWIW my HD will cruise nicely at 100
MPH, and about 110 if pushed hard.
Kelly Meiste
601 Stratus HD (90 hours)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Concerns About Suitability Of 601 HD
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland"
<larrymc@qconline.com>
>
>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Concerns About Suitability Of 601 HD
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: F22clear@aol.com
> >
> > Hi
> >
> I was thinking I could goss it at
> > 1200 lbs and use vortex genertaors to get another 2-3 mphs slower stall
> > speed. What do you think? >
> > Dan Rudy
> >
> > 601hd O-200
>
> Dan,
> At one of the forums that Chris gave last year, vortex generators were
> mentioned
> and I believe these don't work effectively on a thick radius wing like the
> 601HD.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS Stratus Subaru w/Ram heads
Message 4
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| Subject: | I need 601 XL wings |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
I was wanting to know if anyone had a set of 601 XL wings that are
done. I am trying to finish a plane befor Oshkosh and I am running out
of time. If you are not going to finish your plane and would like to
sell them let me know. Or if you are not going to be done for a while
and would like to trade for the ones I have when they are done I would
do that. Or if you would like to rent them until after Oshkosh we
need to talk. They need to be in the central to southern U.S.
The clocks ticking.
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiac stall speeds. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick <rick.pitcher@verizon.net>
George Swinford wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "George Swinford" <grs-pms@comcast.net>
>
> One thing to consider on the subject of stall speeds: Most Zodiac builders seem
to have found quite a discrepancy between the actual cruise speed and the factory
numbers, particularly on the HD and HDS models. If the reason is static
source error, as I suspect, the quoted stall speeds must also be in error. What
is needed is for someone with their ASI static port plumbed to static ports
on the fuselage or pitot head to do some careful power-off stall tests at a known
weight, CG location, temperature, pressure and altitude. Has someone already
done such tests? If so ,what are the numbers?
>
> George Swinford
My 601HD with Jabiru 3300 cruises around 110 MPH indicated and will
reach 120 MPH straight-and-level at full throttle. The stall buffett
starts around 35MPH indicated with the stall break coming around 25 MPH
indicated. I have checked the cruise speed against the GPS but haven't
done the same with the stall speed, I'm sure the stall speed is actually
higher than what I'm seeing on the ASI due to the exterme angle of attack.
My pitot tube has the static port alongside the pressure port as shown
in Mingelli's homebuilt aircraft book.
Rick Pitcher
CH601HD
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Concerns About Suitability Of 601 HD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Bryan,
At 1300 lbs, the useful load for the XL would be the same as the HD.
However the XL carries more fuel (24 gals) vs. the standard HD (16 gals), so
the payload is actually 48 lbs less for the XL, which is why I was looking
at the HD. Also the cost of operating the XL would be a little higher due
to the higher fuel consumption.
You make a valid point about the stall speed of the HD at full gross - I
hadn't thought about that.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net
Madison, WI
Still looking
----------- Original message -----------------
From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Concerns About Suitability Of 601 HD
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
On the Zenith web site, the gross weight for the HD is listed as 1200 lbs,
for
the XL it's listed as 1232 lbs for sport plane (it was originally 1300 lbs).
The
empty weight for the HD is listed as 590 lbs and for the XL it's 690 lbs.
According
to these numbers the XL has a lower payload if it's built to a 1232 lbs
gross weight but the same payload if you build it to its original gross
weight
of 1300 lbs.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Concerns About Suitability Of 601 HD |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
True, but you could always fly with a reduced fuel load and use that weight for
payload.
As to higher fuel consumption, I don't know if that's the case. It's true that
the XL is heavier which would tend to increase the fuel consumption but it's also
got a thinner wing and less draggy landing gear which both tend to reduce
fuel consumption. With the same engine and throttle setting, the XL should be
faster so it will get you there sooner with less fuel burn. And with a higher
fuel capacity, you could make fewer fuel stops on a long cross-country which will
save you from burning more fuel in the landing pattern and climbing back to
your cruise altitude.
--
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Construction complete.
Waiting on the paperwork.
do not archive
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Bryan,
>
>
> At 1300 lbs, the useful load for the XL would be the same as the HD.
> However the XL carries more fuel (24 gals) vs. the standard HD (16 gals), so
> the payload is actually 48 lbs less for the XL, which is why I was looking
> at the HD. Also the cost of operating the XL would be a little higher due
> to the higher fuel consumption.
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker <btucke73@yahoo.com>
List,
There are several VDO fuel senders on the market.
Does anyone have a part number for the one that they
used? I will be side mounting on an LE HDS tank I
built.
Thanks!
Brandon Tucker
HDS
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
The ones I got from ZAC for my HD list the part numbr as 226-002. And, like
somebody recently said, you get to practice your geometry figuring out how
to bend the arm!
Bill
> There are several VDO fuel senders on the market.
> Does anyone have a part number for the one that they
> used? I will be side mounting on an LE HDS tank I
> built.
Message 10
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne <ac6qj@earthlink.net>
On 7/11/04 4:02 PM, "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" <bsteer@gwi.net>
>
> And, like somebody recently said, you get to practice your geometry figuring
> out how to bend the arm!
>
> Bill
I posted photos on bending the arm on Photo Share (see
<http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/ac6qj@earthlink.net.05.22.2004/>) a
while back...
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best Regards, Ray Montagne
Cupertino, CA
===========================================================================
Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL
Build Status: Rudder completed
Elevator Completed
Stabilizer Completed
Flaps Completed
Ailerons Completed
Right Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Left Wing Completed
Right Wing Tip Completed
Fuselage Under Construction
NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include
the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not
be viewable by me.
===========================================================================
Message 11
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| Subject: | 701 & 912S throttle control |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com
I'm having a problem trying to hook up the Aircraft Spruce (part# A-820BL0360)
friction throttle control (similar to Cessna style) with .078 solid wire to
connect to the carb cable splitter for the dual carbs on the 912S. The splitter
seems to be made for a .050 or .060 wire & the trottle I have is .078 wire. Is
there an adapter available to connect the two?
(I don't want to use the ugly trottle quadrant levers, but is this the only
option? I already have the hole in the panel for the nice push/pull throttle
control & it's a superior control compared to the quadrants.)
Also how does the crimped end of the chock cable fit down into the cable guide
on the engine without cutting the end of the cable off? Are there ends
available for re-crimping/silver soldering?
Thanks
Rich
-------------------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | invitation for innovations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Over the years a number of people have reported innovative design mods for the
Zodiac. One example that stands out in my mind, and that I'm incorporating, is
the Barry Mayne's bungee system for manually adjusting aileron trim. Elegant,
inexpensive, and failsafe (in that if anything breaks, there's no danger).
Another is the aileron gap seals that Norm Turner tested and found to boost
cruise and lower stall speed by several knots.
I know some of my own ideas are a little off-the-wall, but the experimental part
is a huge part of the interest for many of us and that's why I run them by
the list. What other mods have people tried and liked, or simply heard about?
Maybe we should start a fund to award to the idea voted best so far. I'll contribute
$25 if anyone is interested.
Bob
Message 13
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| Subject: | invitation for innovations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Though I don't agree to the money aspect of Bob's idea the rest is gold
! I would like to see everyone's idea's and modifications. Please get in
touch with me so that I can post them in the proper area of
www.ch601.org we can all benefit from others idea's and that is what
ch601.org is all about, to share and help each other along the road of
building a Zodiac 601. Send ANY and ALL idea's to moderator@ch601.org
IF you all like the thought of voting for an Idea I will add a voting
poll for the idea's and you folks can set a date for the winner.
Mark Townsend
601XL EJ 2.2L
Alma, Ontario
www.ch601.org
-----Original Message-----
Over the years a number of people have reported innovative design mods
for the Zodiac. One example that stands out in my mind, and that I'm
incorporating, is the Barry Mayne's bungee system for manually adjusting
aileron trim. Elegant, inexpensive, and failsafe (in that if anything
breaks, there's no danger). Another is the aileron gap seals that
Norm Turner tested and found to boost cruise and lower stall speed by
several knots.
I know some of my own ideas are a little off-the-wall, but the
experimental part is a huge part of the interest for many of us and
that's why I run them by the list. What other mods have people tried
and liked, or simply heard about?
Maybe we should start a fund to award to the idea voted best so far.
I'll contribute $25 if anyone is interested.
Bob
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: invitation for innovations |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
Greetings listers
I am mounting my facet pumps in the nose ribs of my XL if anyone would like
a pic of my bracket and design so far , e mail me off list.
Joe Motis
601XL
do not archive
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