---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/15/04: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:42 AM - re CH-801 spinner (Jim Frisby) 2. 03:10 AM - Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (Jim Frisby) 3. 05:29 AM - Re: Steps (Phil Raker) 4. 06:17 AM - Re: CH-801 spinner (Benford2@aol.com) 5. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: canopy adhesive (Larry McFarland) 6. 06:37 AM - Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (Weston, Jim) 7. 06:40 AM - Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (Benford2@aol.com) 8. 07:03 AM - Canopy shipping help (Trevor Page) 9. 07:35 AM - Re: Canopy shipping help (Michel Therrien) 10. 08:14 AM - Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (Hinde, Frank George) 11. 08:17 AM - Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (JERICKSON03E@aol.com) 12. 08:38 AM - Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) 13. 10:29 AM - Re: Canopy shipping help (Trevor Page) 14. 12:37 PM - dreamers and lurkers (Carlos Sa) 15. 03:11 PM - Re: CH-801 spinner (rbauer@intergate.com) 16. 06:45 PM - Kudos to McMaster-Carr (Trevor Page) 17. 06:54 PM - Re: Canopy Adhesive (John M. Goodings) 18. 07:40 PM - Re: rivets and not the pulled type (Joemotis@aol.com) 19. 07:54 PM - Bungee Trim (Cdngoose) 20. 08:02 PM - Crimping, Flanfing and Fluting Pliers (Jim Fosse) 21. 08:19 PM - Avex rivets (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 22. 08:56 PM - Re: CH-801 spinner (Benford2@aol.com) 23. 09:31 PM - Re: rivets and not the pulled type (Bryan Martin) 24. 09:48 PM - Re: rivets and not the pulled type (Jack Russell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:12 AM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Zenith-List: re CH-801 spinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" Rich, Van's RV has nice composit spinner kits with aluminum bulkheads, you have to cut out the prop openings, If you get one, don't get the 13" model, probably 12" would be right. I got the 13" one,and the rear edge of the rear bulkhead contacts my starter, I'm still contemplating what to do with it, I have already cut out the dome for the prop, so I can't send it back. Thinking of having the rim of the rear bulkhead machined off about 1/8". Jim http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:20 AM PST US From: "Jim Frisby" Subject: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" All I have about 21 hours on my CH801 with Lycoming O-320 A2B and sensenich prop. I have one bendix impulse magneto, and one Electroair electronic ignition. Tonight (still light enough to fly without a landing light at 11:30 PM here in Alaska), my engine started to sputter and misfire or miss (seems like on all cylinders). This happened on climbout with full power, about mid downwind in the traffic pattern. Here is the history. I have been having some ignition troubles with the electronic ignition, missing when the engine was warmed up, and running below 1200 rpm. The ignition has never missed under load. I reset (narrowed) the air gap in the Hall effect sensor, and that seems to be solved. I normally run the 801 on unleaded auto fuel, which I pump from a tank in my pickup, through two filters, one particle and one velpro water no-go filter. Tonight, I took off from my home airport, went about 10 miles to an outlying airport and pumped 12 gallons of 100LL from their pumps into my tanks. On the left inboard tank, it had 8 gallons of unleaded, and I added 7 gallons of 100LL to fill the tank. I took off with the left inboard tank selected, all seemed fine. I climbed to about 1500 ' and flew about 20 miles to a third airport. On arriving there, I made 3 stop and go trips around the pattern. The fourth time, I continued my downwind leg, to leave the pattern and return to my home airport. Just then, the engine seemed slightly rough. I turned back toward the airport, and sure enough, within 10 seconds, the engine started missing and sputtering. I reduced power to land, and the engine ran smoothly. I decided to try to climb higher and see if I could tell what the problem was, after opening the throttle full again and starting a climb, The engine started missing again. Thinking it might be an ignition problem, I turned off the electronic ignition - the engine continued to miss. Then I turned the electronic ignition back on, and turned off the magneto. The engine missed almost identically regardless of whether both or either ignition was on. I also noticed that my fuel pressure was staying normal, (6-7.5 psi with engine and facet pump both on in paralell) I went ahead and landed the plane, I drained a full vial of fuel from the left inboard sump, the belly sump, and the gascolator (on the firewall). All samples looked good, no sign of water. Then, I ran the engine on the ramp, at 2350-2500 prm for 4 or 5 minutes, with no sign of roughness. So, boldly, I took off again, still on the same fuel tank, climbing out in such a way as to keep the option of landing at the airport available. Again, about mid-downwind, the engine started the "warning" slight roughness. After a few seconds, it started sputtering and missing again. I landed the plane again, called my wife, tied it down in transient parking, and there it sits. Here are my theories: 1) the engine had been stored for 5 years in my shop. It was inverted regularly and turned over so as to keep the cam and lifters and top side of the cylinders lubed. Maybe there was dried up gasoline in the carb, maybe it formed varnish, maybe the varnish finally got loose in there and is causing my trouble ??? 2)Maybe there was water in the fuel but it got past all the sumps without leaving behind any droplets ?? 3)Maybe my valves are sticking from using 100LL when the engine is used to unleaded (I don't know how sticking valves manifest) 4) maybe the finger screen in the carb has some gunk in it, don't know how it could, there is a paper auto-in line filter and the gascolator in the system 5) maybe something is in the bottom of the float bowl, maybe a little water, maybe it causes the roughness when the nose is tilted up for climb and moves away when the nose is depressed for landing. Space below for your opinions:) 6) 7) 8) Thanks Jim Frisby N801ZA Palmer Alaska (currently stuck at Birchwood Alaska) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:38 AM PST US From: Phil Raker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Steps --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker No, Bob, I have no concerns about it. The torsional loads from the step (angle) are taken out primarily in the .090"x3" strap which runs all the way across the belly and supports both angles. I've also added a few "L"s inside which help to take out some of the load into the side skins. If you put your entire weight on the outboard edge of the step, there is some slight oilcanning of the belly skin. It doesn't appear to be a problem. If you distribute your weight across the upper face of the angle (a more natural way to step), there is no problem at all. Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed Time: 06:17:47 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Steps --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Phil, I considered making steps like George's, but decided it would be too much fabrication for the savings in drag. Your design sounds interesting...the step would be on level with the trailing edge of the wing root fairing, right? Some people have beefed up the wing root fairing and claimed they were strong enough to step on. With your design that wouldn't be necessary. With George's steps, and with the tube steps, the weight is distributed between the upper and lower longerons (via the side skin) like yours, but also they lever against the lower skin and thus reduce twisting force against the lower longeron. Do you have any concerns about this twisting force with your design? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Raker" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Steps > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker > > Bob, > I had the same concerns about the tube steps (mainly lots of drag). > Then I got to thinking about the flat-angle steps that are common on single-engine > Cessnas, mounted low beside the firewall for checking fuel tanks. I made > something similar from 2 pieces of 3"x3"x1/8" extruded angle, a piece of .090" > strap, and a few extra "L"s. They're mounted at the bottom edge, just behind > the trailing edge. They work well - the only down-side to them is a long > first step up. > If you don't like that idea, see the design by George Pinneo, printed in > Zenair News a couple of years ago. It's thin & flat, so less drag than round > tubes; and the step hangs below the fuselage, just like the tube steps, so > shorter first step than mine. Complete design drawings and explanations were > published. > My design required less fabrication than George's and used materials I had > available at the time. I can send photos (off line) to anyone who'd like to > see them. > __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:11 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 spinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 7/14/2004 4:04:54 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rbauer@intergate.com writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com > > What spinner should be used for the 801 with O-360 & ZAC cowling? Looks like > a > 12" diameter. Will the Aircraft Spruce SN-5 spinner kit work? > > Thanks > Rich > I want to warn you guys about a vendor I had a very bad experience with. Predator Aviation in Arizona is a real peice of work, promised me a 14" spinner and cashed my check back in Aug 03, after multiple promises to ship they finally send me a 12" one. I had made my cowling fit a 14" spinner and after i recieved the smaller one I contacted them and all they said was "We don't feel like making 14" spinners, use the 12" one" Lucky for them I was several states away or they would be a missing link for sure.!!! I do have a 12" one they would not send a call tag for so I could ship it back so if ya need one contact me.I ended up using a 13" one I got from Vans,very nice unit and a good price too. Ben Haas N801BH.. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:54 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: canopy adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: canopy adhesive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" > > Hi Listers, > I have searched the archives, Tony Bengellis, and tried four different > products to stick the rubber gasket to my canopy on my HDS and had little > luck. What have others used for their canopy seals? > I thought I was on the short end of finishing up, but this canopy is > getting to be a major project. > Thanks > Ron DeWees > N601TD Ron, I used a product called PolyZap, which had to be ordered from a Florida dealer. The stuff was orignially recommended by Fred Hulin and I found this stuff is really effective. You only put a small drop every 2" to anchor the rubber, then add just small drops in between these anchor points after everything is set. It goes quickly. The bottles are only 1-1/2 ounce and you won't use but one. The greatest risk is using too much and having it squeeze out on your window. It can't be wiped, so be careful. Larry McFarland ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:00 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 From: "Weston, Jim" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Weston, Jim" SmltLA0KIA0KVGhpcyBzb3VuZHMgbGlrZSBjbGFzc2ljIGNhcmJ1cmV0ZXVyIGljZSB0byBtZS4N CiANCkppbSBXZXN0b24NCkNvbmNvcmQsIEdhLg0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t LS0gDQoJRnJvbTogb3duZXItemVuaXRoLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gb24gYmVo YWxmIG9mIEppbSBGcmlzYnkgDQoJU2VudDogVGh1IDcvMTUvMjAwNCA2OjA5IEFNIA0KCVRvOiB6 ZW5pdGgtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KCUNjOiANCglTdWJqZWN0OiBaZW5pdGgtTGlzdDog RW5naW5lIG1pc2ZpcmluZywgYWR2aWNlIEppbSBGcmlzYnkgQ0g4MDENCgkNCgkNCg0KCS0tPiBa ZW5pdGgtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogIkppbSBGcmlzYnkiIDxuODAxemFAaG90bWFp bC5jb20+DQoJDQoJQWxsDQoJDQoJSSBoYXZlIGFib3V0IDIxIGhvdXJzIG9uIG15IENIODAxIHdp dGggTHljb21pbmcgTy0zMjAgQTJCIGFuZCBzZW5zZW5pY2gNCglwcm9wLiAgSSBoYXZlIG9uZSBi 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LT0gIE90aGVyIExpc3RzOiAgICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vZW1haWxsaXN0cw0K CV8tPSAgVHJvdWJsZSBSZXBvcnQgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS90cm91YmxlLXJl cG9ydA0KCV8tPSAgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uczogIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250 cmlidXRpb24NCglfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KDQo ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:28 AM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 7/15/2004 7:37:41 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Jim.Weston@delta.com writes: > > SmltLA0KIA0KVGhpcyBzb3VuZHMgbGlrZSBjbGFzc2ljIGNhcmJ1cmV0ZXVyIGljZSB0byBtZS4N > CiANCkppbSBXZXN0b24NCkNvbmNvcmQsIEdhLg0KDQoJLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0t > LS0gDQoJRnJvbTogb3duZXItemVuaXRoLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gb24gYmVo > YWxmIG9mIEppbSBGcmlzYnkgDQoJU2VudDogVGh1IDcvMTUvMjAwNCA2OjA5IEFNIA0KCVRvOiB6 > ZW5pdGgtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KCUNjOiANCglTdWJqZWN0OiBaZW5pdGgtTGlzdDog > RW5naW5lIG1pc2ZpcmluZywgYWR2aWNlIEppbSBGcmlzYnkgQ0g4MDENCgkNCgkNCg0KCS0tPiBa > ZW5pdGgtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogIkppbSBGcmlzYnkiIDxuODAxemFAaG90bWFp > bC5jb20+DQoJDQoJQWxsDQoJDQoJSSBoYXZlIGFib3V0IDIxIGhvdXJzIG9uIG15IENIODAxIHdp > dGggTHljb21pbmcgTy0zMjAgQTJCIGFuZCBzZW5zZW5pY2gNCglwcm9wLiAgSSBoYXZlIG9uZSBi > ZW5kaXggaW1wdWxzZSBtYWduZXRvLCBhbmQgb25lIEVsZWN0cm9haXIgZWxlY3Ryb25pYw0KCWln > bml0aW9uLg0KCQ0KCVRvbmlnaHQgKHN0aWxsIGxpZ2h0IGVub3VnaCB0byBmbHkgd2l0aG91dCBh > IGxhbmRpbmcgbGlnaHQgYXQgMTE6MzAgUE0gaGVyZQ0KCWluIEFsYXNrYSksIG15IGVuZ2luZSBz > dGFydGVkIHRvIHNwdXR0ZXIgYW5kIG1pc2ZpcmUgb3IgbWlzcyAoc2VlbXMgbGlrZSBvbg0KCWFs > bCBjeWxpbmRlcnMpLiAgVGhpcyBoYXBwZW5lZCBvbiBjbGltYm91dCB3aXRoIGZ1bGwgcG93ZXIs > IGFib3V0IG1pZA0KCWRvd253aW5kIGluIHRoZSB0cmFmZmljIHBhdHRlcm4uDQoJDQoJSGVyZSBp > cyB0aGUgaGlzdG9yeS4gIEkgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGhhdmluZyBzb21lIGlnbml0aW9uIHRyb3VibGVz > IHdpdGggdGhlDQoJZWxlY3Ryb25pYyBpZ25pdGlvbiwgbWlzc2luZyB3aGVuIHRoZSBlbmdpbmUg > d2FzIHdhcm1lZCB1cCwgYW5kIHJ1bm5pbmcNCgliZWxvdyAxMjAwIHJwbS4gIFRoZSBpZ25pdGlv > biBoYXMgbmV2ZXIgbWlzc2VkIHVuZGVyIGxvYWQuICBJIHJlc2V0DQoJKG5hcnJvd2VkKSB0aGUg > YWlyIGdhcCBpbiB0aGUgSGFsbCBlZmZlY3Qgc2Vuc29yLCBhbmQgdGhhdCBzZWVtcyB0byBiZQ0K > CXNvbHZlZC4NCgkNCglJIG5vcm1hbGx5IHJ1biB0aGUgODAxIG9uIHVubGVhZGVkIGF1dG8gZnVl > bCwgd2hpY2ggSSBwdW1wIGZyb20gYSB0YW5rIGluIG15DQoJcGlja3VwLCB0aHJvdWdoIHR3byBm > aWx0ZXJzLCBvbmUgcGFydGljbGUgYW5kIG9uZSB2ZWxwcm8gd2F0ZXIgbm8tZ28gZmlsdGVyLg0K > CQ0KCVRvbmlnaHQsIEkgdG9vayBvZmYgZnJvbSBteSBob21lIGFpcnBvcnQsIHdlbnQgYWJvdXQg > MTAgbWlsZXMgdG8gYW4gb3V0bHlpbmcNCglhaXJwb3J0IGFuZCBwdW1wZWQgMTIgZ2FsbG9ucyBv > ZiAxMDBMTCBmcm9tIHRoZWlyIHB1bXBzIGludG8gbXkgdGFua3MuICBPbg0KCXRoZSBsZWZ0IGlu > Ym9hcmQgdGFuaywgaXQgaGFkIDggZ2FsbG9ucyBvZiB1bmxlYWRlZCwgYW5kIEkgYWRkZWQgNyBn WOW !!!Thats exactly what I thought was causing the problem... Jim, all ya got to do is follow this course of repair.... ha ha. ben ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:20 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy shipping help --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Fellow listers, I'm in the final stages of building my canopy frame and its time to order the bubble! I'm going to order one from Toddscanopies.com and was wondering if anyone lives or knows of someone reliable in the Buffalo NY area where I can have it shipped to save costs. Todd says that shipping into Canada is very expensive and everyone he has done business with in Canada has always done this. Buffalo is only 1 hour from my place but Detroit is another option but 3 hours west of me. Any thoughts? Thanks Trevor ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:17 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy shipping help --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Where are U located in Canada. I recently discovered Freeport Forwarding. They charge a minimal amount (2$ for a small package to 10$ for a crate, I believe) to receive shipments. Then, they call you and you come pick it up. ADRESSE TATS-UNIS Freeport Forwarding Inc. 1320 State Route 9, Champlain, NY 12919 (518) 298-8582 I'm sure there are similar companies around every major border route. Michel --- Trevor Page wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page > > > Fellow listers, I'm in the final stages of building > my canopy frame and > its time to order the bubble! > > I'm going to order one from Toddscanopies.com and > was wondering if > anyone lives or knows of someone reliable in the > Buffalo NY area where > I can have it shipped to save costs. Todd says that > shipping into > Canada is very expensive and everyone he has done > business with in > Canada has always done this. Buffalo is only 1 hour > from my place but > Detroit is another option but 3 hours west of me. > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 From: "Hinde, Frank George" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George" Good morning Jim, Just a few thoughts. Firstly we have to determine whether the problem is electrical, fuel or a mechanical problem in the engine. I would suggest you put the mechanical idea to the bottom of the list for now, reson being is that if it was a burnt or sticking valve, head gasket etc it SHOULD be acting up all the time, not just on one phase of the flight... So is it electrical or fuel? If it's a fuel flow problem it will usually get worse with incresing power...i.e more power means a higher fuel flowrate which the system can't maintain. So is it getting worse at full throttle? It could be a sticking float in the carb or a partially plugged jet in the carb. You say you have normal fuel pressure?..Is that measured right at the inlet to the carb?...i.e no filter or anything between where the pressure is measured and the carb?...If so you might want to look at any potential obstructions. If your pressure is measured right at the carb your probably OK on the major fuel components except you don't know about the carb the carb. You say you have two independent ignition systems (mag and electric) Are there any electrical points that are common to both systems...like a the on-off-both switch?...Personally I don't have ANY parts that can fail that would take both systems out for that very reason. Basically if it is an electrical thing an it happens the same on both systems I would be looking for common components, wiring, connectors etc. If both systems are completely seperated (which I HIGHLY recommend) then its unlikely to be electrical.....Then I would be looking at the carb. Good luck...and I'm glad you played it safe and left it there! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Frisby Subject: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" All I have about 21 hours on my CH801 with Lycoming O-320 A2B and sensenich prop. I have one bendix impulse magneto, and one Electroair electronic ignition. Tonight (still light enough to fly without a landing light at 11:30 PM here in Alaska), my engine started to sputter and misfire or miss (seems like on all cylinders). This happened on climbout with full power, about mid downwind in the traffic pattern. Here is the history. I have been having some ignition troubles with the electronic ignition, missing when the engine was warmed up, and running below 1200 rpm. The ignition has never missed under load. I reset (narrowed) the air gap in the Hall effect sensor, and that seems to be solved. I normally run the 801 on unleaded auto fuel, which I pump from a tank in my pickup, through two filters, one particle and one velpro water no-go filter. Tonight, I took off from my home airport, went about 10 miles to an outlying airport and pumped 12 gallons of 100LL from their pumps into my tanks. On the left inboard tank, it had 8 gallons of unleaded, and I added 7 gallons of 100LL to fill the tank. I took off with the left inboard tank selected, all seemed fine. I climbed to about 1500 ' and flew about 20 miles to a third airport. On arriving there, I made 3 stop and go trips around the pattern. The fourth time, I continued my downwind leg, to leave the pattern and return to my home airport. Just then, the engine seemed slightly rough. I turned back toward the airport, and sure enough, within 10 seconds, the engine started missing and sputtering. I reduced power to land, and the engine ran smoothly. I decided to try to climb higher and see if I could tell what the problem was, after opening the throttle full again and starting a climb, The engine started missing again. Thinking it might be an ignition problem, I turned off the electronic ignition - the engine continued to miss. Then I turned the electronic ignition back on, and turned off the magneto. The engine missed almost identically regardless of whether both or either ignition was on. I also noticed that my fuel pressure was staying normal, (6-7.5 psi with engine and facet pump both on in paralell) I went ahead and landed the plane, I drained a full vial of fuel from the left inboard sump, the belly sump, and the gascolator (on the firewall). All samples looked good, no sign of water. Then, I ran the engine on the ramp, at 2350-2500 prm for 4 or 5 minutes, with no sign of roughness. So, boldly, I took off again, still on the same fuel tank, climbing out in such a way as to keep the option of landing at the airport available. Again, about mid-downwind, the engine started the "warning" slight roughness. After a few seconds, it started sputtering and missing again. I landed the plane again, called my wife, tied it down in transient parking, and there it sits. Here are my theories: 1) the engine had been stored for 5 years in my shop. It was inverted regularly and turned over so as to keep the cam and lifters and top side of the cylinders lubed. Maybe there was dried up gasoline in the carb, maybe it formed varnish, maybe the varnish finally got loose in there and is causing my trouble ??? 2)Maybe there was water in the fuel but it got past all the sumps without leaving behind any droplets ?? 3)Maybe my valves are sticking from using 100LL when the engine is used to unleaded (I don't know how sticking valves manifest) 4) maybe the finger screen in the carb has some gunk in it, don't know how it could, there is a paper auto-in line filter and the gascolator in the system 5) maybe something is in the bottom of the float bowl, maybe a little water, maybe it causes the roughness when the nose is tilted up for climb and moves away when the nose is depressed for landing. Space below for your opinions:) 6) 7) 8) Thanks Jim Frisby N801ZA Palmer Alaska (currently stuck at Birchwood Alaska) == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:35 AM PST US From: JERICKSON03E@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: JERICKSON03E@aol.com In a message dated 7/15/2004 5:10:54 AM Central Daylight Time, n801za@hotmail.com writes: > > Space below for your opinions:) > 6 Jim,Sounds like a fuel flow condition that develops after time in flight. > Things to consider: You mention the left inboard tank selection leads to the rough condition. How does it run when other tanks are selected? Has the paper in line filter, auto, been clear of water? Will it pass water? Is it installed before the fuel pumps? Does it run with the paper element removed? [No restriction] You mentioned that you saw fuel pressure, on the gauge, but are your fuel tanks vented OK? Do they all flow fuel OK? Does it run different with carb heat / alt air source on? Re check the fuel type & source. Could it be a detonation condition, resulting in rough running & loss of power? Is cooling airflow path clear and proven OK prior to now? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:47 AM PST US From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Is your fuel pressure sender down stream of all your filters? You can get good pressure ahead of a clogged filter but low pressure down stream. Have you checked your air filter? A clogged air filter will cause these symptoms. The engine will run fine at low throttle settings and bog down at full throttle. Auto gas can contain dissolved water, especially if it contains alcohol. I've heard that mixing avgas with auto gas can cause dissolved water to settle out because the avgas can't hold water as well. But I would think it would show up in your sumps. Maybe the water staying in suspension until the fuel gets to the carb. Just a thought. -- N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Construction complete. Waiting on the paperwork. do not archive > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" > > All > > > Tonight (still light enough to fly without a landing light at 11:30 PM here > in Alaska), my engine started to sputter and misfire or miss (seems like on > all cylinders). This happened on climbout with full power, about mid > downwind in the traffic pattern. > > Thanks > Jim Frisby > N801ZA > Palmer Alaska (currently stuck at Birchwood Alaska) > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:48 AM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Canopy shipping help --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Thanks Michel. I'm in Ontario but all my family is in Quebec :) I just spoke to Todd and he says that I don't need to know anyone, the shipping company loading dock closest to me (Buffalo) will call when it arrives. Then I just go and pick it up. Seems easy enough to me. Trev On Jul 15, 2004, at 10:34 AM, Michel Therrien wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien > > Where are U located in Canada. I recently discovered > Freeport Forwarding. They charge a minimal amount (2$ > for a small package to 10$ for a crate, I believe) to > receive shipments. Then, they call you and you come > pick it up. > > ADRESSE TATS-UNIS > Freeport Forwarding Inc. > 1320 State Route 9, > Champlain, NY 12919 > > (518) 298-8582 > > I'm sure there are similar companies around every > major border route. > > Michel > > --- Trevor Page wrote: >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page >> >> >> Fellow listers, I'm in the final stages of building >> my canopy frame and >> its time to order the bubble! >> >> I'm going to order one from Toddscanopies.com and >> was wondering if >> anyone lives or knows of someone reliable in the >> Buffalo NY area where >> I can have it shipped to save costs. Todd says that >> shipping into >> Canada is very expensive and everyone he has done >> business with in >> Canada has always done this. Buffalo is only 1 hour >> from my place but >> Detroit is another option but 3 hours west of me. >> > > ===== > ---------------------------- > Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ > http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 > http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby > http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:59 PM PST US From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: dreamers and lurkers --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa For those that haven't decided yet... I've seen this line a number of times over the years, and, as I accumulate kilometrage (that's metric for mileage), I find it to be oh-so-true. I found it in the Hog Air site - http://www.hog-air.com/Quotes.htm ---------------------------------- Zachary Scott "As you grow older, you'll find the only things you regret are the things you didn't do." ---------------------------------- Carlos ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:32 PM PST US From: rbauer@intergate.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 spinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com Thanks for the heads up. Looking at the cowling again, I just may need a 13". I'm debating if I should move the cowling bacl some. As it is, the front center of the bottom cowl is about 2" forward or the front of the ring gear. ZAC says not to trim it. I the length was exactly as speced in the manual. But as it is I have to use a 1.75 or so prop spacer. I don't know if the Van's spinner will match the angle at the top & bottom cowling so there will be a smooth transition. Anybody know??? Ben, you don't have the ZAC cowl, correct? Rich Quoting Benford2@aol.com: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com > > In a message dated 7/14/2004 4:04:54 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > rbauer@intergate.com writes: > > > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com > > > > What spinner should be used for the 801 with O-360 & ZAC cowling? Looks > like > > a > > 12" diameter. Will the Aircraft Spruce SN-5 spinner kit work? > > > > Thanks > > Rich > > > I want to warn you guys about a vendor I had a very bad experience with. > Predator Aviation in Arizona is a real peice of work, promised me a 14" > spinner > and cashed my check back in Aug 03, after multiple promises to ship they > finally > send me a 12" one. I had made my cowling fit a 14" spinner and after i > recieved the smaller one I contacted them and all they said was "We don't > feel like > making 14" spinners, use the 12" one" Lucky for them I was several states > away or they would be a missing link for sure.!!! I do have a 12" one they > would > not send a call tag for so I could ship it back so if ya need one contact > me.I > ended up using a 13" one I got from Vans,very nice unit and a good price > too. > > Ben Haas N801BH.. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:32 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Zenith-List: Kudos to McMaster-Carr --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Yesterday @ 3PM I ordered parts for the XL canopy from McMaster-Carr (gas struts, eyelets and knob stuff). This morning they arrived. I've never seen stuff come this fast from the US to Canada and I didn't pay extra for shipping. Kudos to them, I'd use them again with service like that! Trevor Page ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:48 PM PST US From: "John M. Goodings" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Adhesive --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" Super Glue (Crazy Glue, cyanoacrylate) worked very well for me. It has shown no sign of coming unstuck or deteriorating with a temperature swing from about -20 to +90 degrees F. Try it out first. The trick is to use it very sparingly. You can work your way along about 6 inches at a time, clamping it with your fingers for about 20 seconds to make a permanent bond. Used sparingly, it doesn't leave any residue. I had to bend the rubber sealing strip around some fairly tight curves. It was not a problem. It requires that the rubber strip be smooth and fairly hard, i.e. not spongey. John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with Rotax 912S, Toronto/Kitchener. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:55 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List:rivets and not the pulled type --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Greetings listers, I am to the point where I am making the bellcrank access covers with the riveted rivets. How do you do this? Are you supposed to drill the hole for the solid rivet and then countersink it with a drill bit or do I need to buy a rivet dimple? And, can you set them with a punch against a hard surface? Also, I would bet that a rivet squeezer is going to needed for the rivets in the spars for the fingerscreen access covers, Yes? Thanks Joe Motis 601XL Do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:57 PM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: Bungee Trim --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> As per Bob Miller's request the Bungee Trim picture and file have been uploaded to the www.ch601.org website under Builders Resources. Mark Townsend 601XL EJ 2.2L Alma, Ontario www.ch601.org ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:54 PM PST US From: "Jim Fosse" Subject: Zenith-List: Crimping, Flanfing and Fluting Pliers --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Fosse" Ready for another dumb 'a**' question? ZAC is a little short on telling folks about the tools required to put a kit together, e.g., drill, cleco pliers, rivet puller, square, etc., mostly common tools. Then, when you get into it they tell you that you will need things like hole finders, crimping pliers, flanging pliers and fluting pliers. I had my hole finder question answered but now would like to know a little about those pliers. I have located fluting pliers but cannot find a listing for crimping and flanging pliers. Are they all functionally different. You can tell I'm not a tin bender, so can someone give me a hand? Jim Fosse, Goreville, IL, 701/Suzuki Working Rt Wing ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:31 PM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Avex rivets --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com Where is a good place to buy the Avex rivets for a Zenith aircraft. I know Aircraft Spruce sells them. Is there a better (more economical) supplier? Also, we've been hearing that 4130 (chrome-moly) is almost "extinct." Is there a substitute? What are you guys using for your planes? Dave Harms videoflyer@aol.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:01 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CH-801 spinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 7/15/2004 4:14:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time, rbauer@intergate.com writes: > Thanks for the heads up. Looking at the cowling again, I just may need a > 13". > I'm debating if I should move the cowling bacl some. As it is, the front > center > of the bottom cowl is about 2" forward or the front of the ring gear. ZAC > says > not to trim it. I the length was exactly as speced in the manual. But as it > is > I have to use a 1.75 or so prop spacer. I don't know if the Van's spinner > will > match the angle at the top & bottom cowling so there will be a smooth > transition. Anybody know??? Ben, you don't have the ZAC cowl, correct? > > Rich > > Rich, I am running the Skyshop cowling made for a Franklin. I have made a couple of different prop spacers to get my fit perfect. As for the spinner I have I looked today and remembered it is cut out for a three blade so thats not gonna help ya. I still think the Vans spinners are the way to go. If only ZAC could get their vendor to make the glass parts then all would be better in 801 world. ha. Ben Haas. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List:rivets and not the pulled type From: Bryan Martin --> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin on 7/15/04 10:40 PM, Joemotis@aol.com at Joemotis@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com > > Greetings listers, > > I am to the point where I am making the bellcrank access covers with the > riveted rivets. How do you do this? Are you supposed to drill the hole for the > solid rivet and then countersink it with a drill bit or do I need to buy a > rivet dimple? And, can you set them with a punch against a hard surface? > > Also, I would bet that a rivet squeezer is going to needed for the rivets in > the spars for the fingerscreen access covers, Yes? > > Thanks > Joe Motis > 601XL > If you're talking about the A3 solid rivets for the nut plates into the wing skin, you should dimple the metal. You can probably use a punch and a block of wood to dimple for these small rivets, it doesn't take much. You can set the rivets with a small hammer. For the spar rivets, a squeezer would be nice but not necessary. You can set these rivets with either an air rivet gun and bucking bar or just hit the rivet set with a hammer. Maybe you can borrow a squeezer for the job, there aren't many solid rivets on the zodiac. -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Construction complete. Getting the paperwork in order. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:50 PM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List:rivets and not the pulled type --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Hi Joe: I quite trying to mess with those tiny solid rivets and just went with rivnuts on all non structural items. I used 8/32 (6/32 might be better) everywhere and the application tool wasn't that expensive. I am sure someone will tell you they will spin in time but I have tried to move them with the vice grips and they hold tight. I figure that I could always drill off the head of the screw if the nut spins. I guess if it was in a critical place you could put a drop of epoxie on it. Jack Joemotis@aol.com wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com Greetings listers, I am to the point where I am making the bellcrank access covers with the riveted rivets. How do you do this? Are you supposed to drill the hole for the solid rivet and then countersink it with a drill bit or do I need to buy a rivet dimple? And, can you set them with a punch against a hard surface?