Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:13 AM - 701 toe brakes (Flydog1966@aol.com)
2. 08:19 AM - Re: Nutsert versus rivnut (Joemotis@aol.com)
3. 09:34 AM - Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (Jim Frisby)
4. 09:48 AM - Light Sport Rule Final!! (Paul Moore)
5. 10:13 AM - Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (Phil Owens)
6. 10:48 AM - Re: Step question again (Bob Miller)
7. 10:49 AM - Re: CH-801 spinner (rbauer@intergate.com)
8. 02:18 PM - Toe brake hinge (Mark Sherman)
9. 02:33 PM - Re: Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 (Trampas)
10. 04:04 PM - Step is now inside! (Jack Russell)
11. 05:41 PM - Re: CH-801 spinner (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Flydog1966@aol.com
dwg.# 7C4, (4th ed.) shows a 1/4" steel rod used for the toe brake hinge
pin.
The pin goes into a 5/16"x.058" tube. If I'm doing my math right it has an
inside diameter of .196". Did I figure the i.d. wrong? Are the plans wrong?
Anyone
know what I should use?
Thanks
Flydog
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List:Nutsert versus rivnut |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol.com
In a message dated 7/16/2004 3:33:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bryanmmartin@comcast.net writes:
on 7/16/04 2:39 PM, Joemotis@aol.com at Joemotis@aol.com wrote:
Thanks, Bryan The washers are a good idea. Also I think a liitle dab of JB
weld to make sure it will never spin. Although this whole approach is
overkill :-) the first annual that gets pulled I am sure that I will feel the
time
invested was well worth it!
Joe Motis
601XL
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | RE: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
Frank,
Thanks for your comments and advice.
The fuel pressure sender is attached to an adapter at the carburetor inlet.
Since my note, I removed the finger screen in the carb inlet, it had a few
near microscopic flecks in it. I drained the fuel bowl onto a paper towel,
that also showed some small flecks.
On the advice of my A&P friend, looking for sticky valve, I removed the
rocker covers and tried to check radial clearance in the valve stems. Each
had noticable movement, but some were tighter then the others. I considered
this inconclusive.
Yes, the problem seems to occur only an full or near full throttle. When I
reduce power below about 2350, the engine runs smoothly (so far). Yesterday
I put some auto fuel in my #3 and #4 tanks (Chevron "with Techroline") and
tried it again with those tanks selected.
Takeoff and initial climb was normal. I thought I felt a little
unevenness in the engine about 30 seconds after takeoff, I reduced power and
climbed to 3000 agl. I flew the plane for 10-15 minutes above the airport
at less than full power and experienced no problems.
I flew the plane back to my home airport, another 15 minutes away, once over
the home airport, I increased to full throttle and climbed for a minute or
so. Again no roughness.
Regarding the possiblilty of ignition problems. The systems are fully
independent, each controlled by a toggle switch. During the initial
incident, I tested each ignition system separately and found the problem to
be the same with either or both systems on.
I plan to remove the carburetor and clean it. I think you are right on that
count.
Again, Thanks
Jim Frisby
Frank wrote:
Just a few thoughts. Firstly we have to determine whether the problem
is
electrical, fuel or a mechanical problem in the engine.
I would suggest you put the mechanical idea to the bottom of the list
for now, reson being is that if it was a burnt or sticking valve, head
gasket etc it SHOULD be acting up all the time, not just on one phase
of
the flight...
So is it electrical or fuel?
If it's a fuel flow problem it will usually get worse with incresing
power...i.e more power means a higher fuel flowrate which the system
can't maintain. So is it getting worse at full throttle?
It could be a sticking float in the carb or a partially plugged jet in
the carb. You say you have normal fuel pressure?..Is that measured
right
at the inlet to the carb?...i.e no filter or anything between where
the
pressure is measured and the carb?...If so you might want to look at
any
potential obstructions. If your pressure is measured right at the carb
your probably OK on the major fuel components except you don't know
about the carb the carb.
You say you have two independent ignition systems (mag and electric)
Are
there any electrical points that are common to both systems...like a
the
on-off-both switch?...Personally I don't have ANY parts that can fail
that would take both systems out for that very reason.
Basically if it is an electrical thing an it happens the same on both
systems I would be looking for common components, wiring, connectors
etc.
If both systems are completely seperated (which I HIGHLY recommend)
then
its unlikely to be electrical.....Then I would be looking at the carb.
Good luck...and I'm glad you played it safe and left it there!
Frank
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Light Sport Rule Final!! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
Hey everyone:
The EAA reports that the OMB returned the Light Sport Rule to the FAA with
their approval! Looks like a new era of recreational flying opportunities
is about to begin - great news for folks like me who are relying on this
rule to be able to join you all in the air in something besides my
ultralight. Here are the details:
http://www.sportpilot.org/news/040713_sportpilot.html
Paul
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Phil Owens" <owensp@charter.net>
Dear Jim,
Sounds like you are not having fun with this fuel problem, perhaps you might
place a fuel pressure guage in the line to see if pressure is being
maintained during all phases of flight. Another possibility may be from fuel
tankl venting.. if the tank you are flying on is not constantly being
vented it will develop a vacuum or low pressure and sooner or later will
starve the fuel system until it gets enough air back into it. Hope this
helps.. P.S. I put areonca style fuel caps on my tanks, they are the caps
with the forward pointing bent tubes that actually slightly pressurize the
tank in flight.
Engine is in the airframe but have had a real time determining the
throttle controls and choke controls. Have finally worked that out and am
almost finished with them, next will be air intake and battery placement.
Had a great air show this year, the U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds were here
along with Skip Stewart, Jacquie Warda, The Red Barons, and a host of others
estimate we had about 40-50 K people over the two days. Sure am glad it is
over for this year, now I can get back to work on the bird.
Phil O
-------Original Message-------
From: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
All
I have about 21 hours on my CH801 with Lycoming O-320 A2B and sensenich
prop. I have one bendix impulse magneto, and one Electroair electronic
ignition.
Tonight (still light enough to fly without a landing light at 11:30 PM here
in Alaska), my engine started to sputter and misfire or miss (seems like on
all cylinders). This happened on climbout with full power, about mid
downwind in the traffic pattern.
Here is the history. I have been having some ignition troubles with the
electronic ignition, missing when the engine was warmed up, and running
below 1200 rpm. The ignition has never missed under load. I reset
(narrowed) the air gap in the Hall effect sensor, and that seems to be
solved.
I normally run the 801 on unleaded auto fuel, which I pump from a tank in my
pickup, through two filters, one particle and one velpro water no-go filter.
Tonight, I took off from my home airport, went about 10 miles to an outlying
airport and pumped 12 gallons of 100LL from their pumps into my tanks. On
the left inboard tank, it had 8 gallons of unleaded, and I added 7 gallons
of 100LL to fill the tank.
I took off with the left inboard tank selected, all seemed fine. I climbed
to about 1500 ' and flew about 20 miles to a third airport. On arriving
there, I made 3 stop and go trips around the pattern.
The fourth time, I continued my downwind leg, to leave the pattern and
return to my home airport.
Just then, the engine seemed slightly rough. I turned back toward the
airport, and sure enough, within 10 seconds, the engine started missing and
sputtering. I reduced power to land, and the engine ran smoothly.
I decided to try to climb higher and see if I could tell what the problem
was, after opening the throttle full again and starting a climb, The engine
started missing again. Thinking it might be an ignition problem, I turned
off the electronic ignition - the engine continued to miss. Then I turned
the electronic ignition back on, and turned off the magneto. The engine
missed almost identically regardless of whether both or either ignition was
on. I also noticed that my fuel pressure was staying normal, (6-7.5 psi
with engine and facet pump both on in paralell)
I went ahead and landed the plane, I drained a full vial of fuel from the
left inboard sump, the belly sump, and the gascolator (on the firewall).
All samples looked good, no sign of water.
Then, I ran the engine on the ramp, at 2350-2500 prm for 4 or 5 minutes,
with no sign of roughness. So, boldly, I took off again, still on the same
fuel tank, climbing out in such a way as to keep the option of landing at
the airport available.
Again, about mid-downwind, the engine started the "warning" slight
roughness. After a few seconds, it started sputtering and missing again.
I landed the plane again, called my wife, tied it down in transient parking,
and there it sits.
Here are my theories:
1) the engine had been stored for 5 years in my shop. It was inverted
regularly and turned over so as to keep the cam and lifters and top side of
the cylinders lubed. Maybe there was dried up gasoline in the carb, maybe
it formed varnish, maybe the varnish finally got loose in there and is
causing my trouble ???
2)Maybe there was water in the fuel but it got past all the sumps without
leaving behind any droplets ??
3)Maybe my valves are sticking from using 100LL when the engine is used to
unleaded (I don't know how sticking valves manifest)
4) maybe the finger screen in the carb has some gunk in it, don't know how
it could, there is a paper auto-in line filter and the gascolator in the
system
5) maybe something is in the bottom of the float bowl, maybe a little water,
maybe it causes the roughness when the nose is tilted up for climb and moves
away when the nose is depressed for landing.
Space below for your opinions:)
6)
7)
8)
Thanks
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
Palmer Alaska (currently stuck at Birchwood Alaska)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Step question again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Jack,
Actually, this would seem to make a lot of sense. I'd anchor the tube to
the middle of the belly skin, the way the original step design does. You
might also want to spread the load across several inches of that lower
longeron, the way the original does by rivets to the skin. I'm
considering making a step that can be placed in the tube from the outside
(maybe using ACS's $9.95 wheel pant access door page 103, p/n KM713-16-064)
so that the opening will stay closed. Then the step could be put in for
the passenger, removed, put in for the pilot, then removed and stowed. No
drag.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Russell" <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Step question again
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
> I know this has been around but has anybody placed the step cross tube
inside the fuselage instead of hanging it on the bottom. I can't see any
reason why it can't be done that way. The step down tube would actually come
out of the bottom skin with the plate mounted on the inside of the side skin
instead of the outside. . Jack
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: CH-801 spinner |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com
Yeah, I heard the fiberglass spinners are less prone to cracking & are the
better ones but not if done by ZAC's current fiberglass parts manufacturer.
They don't do that good a job & I have the parts to prove it. ;-(
I think I'll go for the Van's spinner. Thanks.
Rich
801
do not archive
Quoting Benford2@aol.com:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/15/2004 4:14:39 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> rbauer@intergate.com writes:
>
>
> > Thanks for the heads up. Looking at the cowling again, I just may need a
> > 13".
> > I'm debating if I should move the cowling bacl some. As it is, the front
> > center
> > of the bottom cowl is about 2" forward or the front of the ring gear. ZAC
> > says
> > not to trim it. I the length was exactly as speced in the manual. But as it
>
> > is
> > I have to use a 1.75 or so prop spacer. I don't know if the Van's spinner
> > will
> > match the angle at the top & bottom cowling so there will be a smooth
> > transition. Anybody know??? Ben, you don't have the ZAC cowl, correct?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
>
> Rich, I am running the Skyshop cowling made for a Franklin. I have made a
> couple of different prop spacers to get my fit perfect. As for the spinner I
> have
> I looked today and remembered it is cut out for a three blade so thats not
> gonna help ya. I still think the Vans spinners are the way to go. If only ZAC
>
> could get their vendor to make the glass parts then all would be better in
> 801
> world.
> ha.
>
> Ben Haas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mark Sherman <msherman95632@yahoo.com>
Flydog.
I just went out and measured my factory toe brakes the
pin is 3/16" not 1/4". That should fit a little
better. You might still have to drill out the tube ID
a little.
One of many incorrect dimensions you will find on the
drawings.
=====
Mark S.
CH-701/912ULS
N752MS reserved
__________________________________
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Jim,
One thing which would be a good idea is to hook up a vacuum gauge to the
intake. If a valve is sticking or having some problems you will notice the
vacuum gauge jumping around.
Regards,
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Frisby
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Engine misfiring, advice Jim Frisby CH801
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
Frank,
Thanks for your comments and advice.
The fuel pressure sender is attached to an adapter at the carburetor inlet.
Since my note, I removed the finger screen in the carb inlet, it had a few
near microscopic flecks in it. I drained the fuel bowl onto a paper towel,
that also showed some small flecks.
On the advice of my A&P friend, looking for sticky valve, I removed the
rocker covers and tried to check radial clearance in the valve stems. Each
had noticable movement, but some were tighter then the others. I considered
this inconclusive.
Yes, the problem seems to occur only an full or near full throttle. When I
reduce power below about 2350, the engine runs smoothly (so far). Yesterday
I put some auto fuel in my #3 and #4 tanks (Chevron "with Techroline") and
tried it again with those tanks selected.
Takeoff and initial climb was normal. I thought I felt a little
unevenness in the engine about 30 seconds after takeoff, I reduced power and
climbed to 3000 agl. I flew the plane for 10-15 minutes above the airport
at less than full power and experienced no problems.
I flew the plane back to my home airport, another 15 minutes away, once over
the home airport, I increased to full throttle and climbed for a minute or
so. Again no roughness.
Regarding the possiblilty of ignition problems. The systems are fully
independent, each controlled by a toggle switch. During the initial
incident, I tested each ignition system separately and found the problem to
be the same with either or both systems on.
I plan to remove the carburetor and clean it. I think you are right on that
count.
Again, Thanks
Jim Frisby
Frank wrote:
Just a few thoughts. Firstly we have to determine whether the problem
is
electrical, fuel or a mechanical problem in the engine.
I would suggest you put the mechanical idea to the bottom of the list
for now, reson being is that if it was a burnt or sticking valve, head
gasket etc it SHOULD be acting up all the time, not just on one phase
of
the flight...
So is it electrical or fuel?
If it's a fuel flow problem it will usually get worse with incresing
power...i.e more power means a higher fuel flowrate which the system
can't maintain. So is it getting worse at full throttle?
It could be a sticking float in the carb or a partially plugged jet in
the carb. You say you have normal fuel pressure?..Is that measured
right
at the inlet to the carb?...i.e no filter or anything between where
the
pressure is measured and the carb?...If so you might want to look at
any
potential obstructions. If your pressure is measured right at the carb
your probably OK on the major fuel components except you don't know
about the carb the carb.
You say you have two independent ignition systems (mag and electric)
Are
there any electrical points that are common to both systems...like a
the
on-off-both switch?...Personally I don't have ANY parts that can fail
that would take both systems out for that very reason.
Basically if it is an electrical thing an it happens the same on both
systems I would be looking for common components, wiring, connectors
etc.
If both systems are completely seperated (which I HIGHLY recommend)
then
its unlikely to be electrical.....Then I would be looking at the carb.
Good luck...and I'm glad you played it safe and left it there!
Frank
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Step is now inside! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
Howdy group: I guess I will be the first one to change it but my step cross tube
is now on the inside of the fuselage and it came out pretty good if I do say
so myself! I have posted pictures on my website but since too many folks can't
view it at once you may not get in. If you can't see them I will email the pics
to you. I would like to know what you think or if any changes should be made.
jack
Jack Russell -Clovis CA
601 XL Jabiru 3300
Progress update at:
http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CH-801 spinner |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
on 7/17/04 1:49 PM, rbauer@intergate.com at rbauer@intergate.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com
>
> Yeah, I heard the fiberglass spinners are less prone to cracking & are the
> better ones but not if done by ZAC's current fiberglass parts manufacturer.
> They don't do that good a job & I have the parts to prove it. ;-(
> I think I'll go for the Van's spinner. Thanks.
>
> Rich
> 801
>
> do not archive
>
The fiberglass spinner that ZAC sent me for my Zodiac was made by UHS
Spinners. It was part of the firewall forward kit for the Stratus Subaru.
This is the same brand sold by Aircraft Spruce. The quality of the product
is very good. This is probably the standard part supplied by ZAC, at least
for the Warp Drive prop. I don't know what they supply for the 801.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Construction complete.
Getting the paperwork in order.
do not archive.
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