---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/19/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:34 AM - Re: Trips-EUROPE (Chip W. Erwin) 2. 05:29 AM - Re: Trips-EUROPE (Daniel Vandenberg) 3. 06:03 AM - 601XL or RV9A? (Peter Mather) 4. 07:55 AM - Re: 601XL or RV9A? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 08:20 AM - Re: Trips () 6. 09:18 AM - Re: I need 601 XL wings (Brett) 7. 09:52 AM - Re: I need 601 XL wings (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 8. 10:57 AM - 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? (Bob Miller) 9. 11:58 AM - Re: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? (88tierra) 10. 12:15 PM - Re: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? (Robert Schoenberger) 11. 12:41 PM - LE tank (Brandon Tucker) 12. 01:02 PM - Re: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? (Bob Miller) 13. 02:51 PM - Re: LE tank (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 14. 02:52 PM - Re: LE tank (Larry McFarland) 15. 06:05 PM - Re: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? (Benford2@aol.com) 16. 07:44 PM - Corvair Prop (VideoFlyer@aol.com) 17. 07:57 PM - Wheel Pants and Cowling (Larry Martin) 18. 08:22 PM - Re: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? () 19. 10:21 PM - 601xl assembly instructions 6B9 through 6B11 (Ray Montagne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:36 AM PST US From: "Chip W. Erwin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Trips-EUROPE --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W. Erwin" No time to write big story as I am getting ready for Oshkosh, but 2 weeks ago I flew a 601XL on amphib floats over the Alps to Lake Como. Then on to the very southern part of the boot of Italy and landed on the Mediterranean Sea. Return flight was mostly over the Adriatic Sea. Often at 500 feet. And for those 701 builders, I flew a 701SP on amphibs from the Czech Republic to Biscarosse, France, to a seaplane fly-in. 30 hour trip due to terrible headwinds. Both aircraft are great on floats. I took them up to 10,000 feet at times. Cheers, CHIP CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS LUCNI 1824 686 02 STARE MESTO, CZECH REPUBLIC TEL: +420 572 543 456 FAX: +420 572 543 692 USA FAX: 772-264-0936 E-MAIL: AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ WWW.AIRPLANE.CZ Does ANYONE have any stories about a trip taken in there 601? Maybe to Oshkosh, Sun & Fun or just out for a small trip. Please write them up and send them to moderator@CH601.org Thanks Mark Townsend 601XL EJ 2.2L --- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:01 AM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Trips-EUROPE --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Chip... Did you put the XL on the new 1200 floats? If so...any cruise speed numbers to share? Dan do not archive "Chip W. Erwin" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W. Erwin" No time to write big story as I am getting ready for Oshkosh, but 2 weeks ago I flew a 601XL on amphib floats over the Alps to Lake Como. Then on to the very southern part of the boot of Italy and landed on the Mediterranean Sea. Return flight was mostly over the Adriatic Sea. Often at 500 feet. And for those 701 builders, I flew a 701SP on amphibs from the Czech Republic to Biscarosse, France, to a seaplane fly-in. 30 hour trip due to terrible headwinds. Both aircraft are great on floats. I took them up to 10,000 feet at times. Cheers, CHIP CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS LUCNI 1824 686 02 STARE MESTO, CZECH REPUBLIC TEL: +420 572 543 456 FAX: +420 572 543 692 USA FAX: 772-264-0936 E-MAIL: AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ WWW.AIRPLANE.CZ Does ANYONE have any stories about a trip taken in there 601? Maybe to Oshkosh, Sun & Fun or just out for a small trip. Please write them up and send them to moderator@CH601.org Thanks Mark Townsend 601XL EJ 2.2L --- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:44 AM PST US From: "Peter Mather" Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" As per the title, I'm undecided whether to build an XL or go with a low-end RV9A. The 9A would be built with a Lyc 0-235 and fixed pitch, so economical to run and easy to find a reasonably priced mid-life engine. The overall cost looks very similar to an XL assuming a new Rotax in the XL The obvious pros for the RV are better range, faster, better resale value; for the XL, ease of build, time to build, slightly lower operating cost. I'm sure many of you have been through the same thought processes so interested in all views and opinions. I was very disappointed that Zenith was a no-show at the recent PFA rally in the UK. Doesn't show much commitment to the UK market which is concerning. Best regards Peter ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Having built an HDS and having helped many folks build an RV the choice for me is an obvious one...It has to be an RV. I visited the RV factory on Friday and the the kits that are coming of of true CNC tooling with MATCHED HOLES....like you don't have to drill one hole and hope you got it in the right place...Its more like airplane assembly than building a kit. If you think an XL is easier to build and its anything like the HDS (unless Zenith invested a few million in CNC tooling since 1999) your kidding yourself. The holes that ZAC did drill for me I wish they hadn't...My rivet lines are straight...ZAC's are not! The new RV kit almost assemble themselves. The only "advantage" the ZAC has is using pop rivets vs driven rivets...I can see how that is important to some but is a drop in the bucket compared to the head and shoulders advantage of the RV. As to resale value, RV's usually return their investment cost, more in some cases...I'm looking at maybe a 60 to 70% return on my investment from the HDS. Overall RV's are streets ahead of the competion when it comes to low wing metal airplanes. Frank 601 HDS 337 hours....Soon to start on an RV-7....:) -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Mather Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" As per the title, I'm undecided whether to build an XL or go with a low-end RV9A. The 9A would be built with a Lyc 0-235 and fixed pitch, so economical to run and easy to find a reasonably priced mid-life engine. The overall cost looks very similar to an XL assuming a new Rotax in the XL The obvious pros for the RV are better range, faster, better resale value; for the XL, ease of build, time to build, slightly lower operating cost. I'm sure many of you have been through the same thought processes so interested in all views and opinions. I was very disappointed that Zenith was a no-show at the recent PFA rally in the UK. Doesn't show much commitment to the UK market which is concerning. Best regards Peter == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:39 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Trips From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Do you want a story about a flight from CA to OSH for 2001 Air Venture? I could do that; I have a good log. 1700 + miles each way. 601 HDS, Rotax 912 GGP ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:57 AM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: I need 601 XL wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " I am almost done with the wings but.....I need a left wing spar to finish and I am out of time.Does anyone have a left spar they would part with?I will replace it with a new one from Zenith. But it is six weeks before I can get one from them. If you don't need yours before that I could sure use it. Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:45 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: I need 601 XL wings From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I am not an expert on the XL but if it is anything like the HD(s) models the spars are drilled for their individual splice plates. How do I know this?...Well on these models there are two sets of plates (left and right) I got mine swapped and the holes were miles out! I think if you borrowed a spar and (assuming there is a splice plate on the XL) it may well simply not bolt to your splice plate. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brett Subject: Re: Zenith-List: I need 601 XL wings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " I am almost done with the wings but.....I need a left wing spar to finish and I am out of time.Does anyone have a left spar they would part with?I will replace it with a new one from Zenith. But it is six weeks before I can get one from them. If you don't need yours before that I could sure use it. Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:00 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" I know the fuel tank pressure test is supposed to be 39" of water, but need to know what it would be in PSI. Does anybody know? Bob ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:39 AM PST US From: "88tierra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" 39 inch of water [4 C] = 1.4089644 pound-force/square inch (PSI) (obtained from http://www.onlineconversion.com/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Miller Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" --> I know the fuel tank pressure test is supposed to be 39" of water, but need to know what it would be in PSI. Does anybody know? Bob ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:37 PM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" bob . . . I believe the formula is height of water in feet x 0.434 which in your case is 39" / 12" x 0.434 = 1.4 psi (at 39 deg. F.) Robert Schoenberger 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" > > I know the fuel tank pressure test is supposed to be 39" of water, but need to know what it would be in PSI. > Does anybody know? > Bob > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:01 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: LE tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Zodie warriors, A few stupid questions about installation of LE tank in an HDS. I don't have the plans (for LE tank), and I am sort of winging it. I built the tank to fit snugly to the LE skin and have cut the cork around the drain, vent line, and flush cap fittings. Q1: Is it undesirable in any way for the skin to touch the tank directly (without cork)? I.E. at the filler cap and fitting flanges. they are a bit too tight for a layer of cork. I will obviously attach a secured ground wire. Any thoughts? Q2: How far should the vent line protrude through the bottom skin? Q3: For the fuel sender: When the tank is upright, it reads 10, and when I turn it upside down and hear the float plop on the top of the tank it reads 180 ohms. It this so common sensical that I am missing something important. ( I have read of many builders filling with water / fuel to test the float placement / bend in probe.) Q4: I can't find drawings / instructions for aileron trim. Make it look like the elevator trim??? Thanks in advance, Brandon Tucker __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:23 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Thanks to all who responded, I had no idea how to make that conversion. Could I be wrong about that 39" of water? 1.4 psi doesn't seem like much pressure, when you consider this tank could be subjected to three or four g's. What do you guys think? What have other people pressure tested to? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > bob . . . I believe the formula is height of water in feet x 0.434 which in > your case is 39" / 12" x 0.434 = 1.4 psi (at 39 deg. F.) Robert > Schoenberger 701 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Miller" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" > > > > > I know the fuel tank pressure test is supposed to be 39" of water, but > need to know what it would be in PSI. > > Does anybody know? > > Bob > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:33 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: LE tank From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Zodie warriors...Ha ha...:) A few stupid answers A1...Not really. The tank does (should) not move around to fret against the LE skin...You definatly want it nice and snug. One thing though, the tank is tapered and because of this tends to slide to the fat end of the wing. This is a pain in the A**.. I used to keep pulling mine back to the thin end when I stopped to refuel...In fact the only thing that keeps it in place is the fuel cap.... I tried squirting some spray foam in between the tank and the inner rib to hold it in place...works sort of...Try to add some metal that stops it moving befor you button up the wing. A2...Really doesn't matter....just cut eoungh so the bottom skin of the tank lies flush with the bottom skin...you'll find the welded boss needs a fairly large from memory. A3...Its as good as anything else...The levels are terribly innaccurate...in mine they are anyway...About the only real uses of these level guages is 1) The FAA requires them, 2) They will tell you if you have a massive leak. If you intend to do any cross country (and only have wing tanks) , do yourself a favour and install a JPI Floscan which will tell you exactly how much fuel you have...Otherwise you will be forever landing to refuel with only half empty tanks for fear of running out. I comfortably fly down to the minimums with my floscan. A4...I don't have aileron trim so I can't answer that...But I wish I did! Frank 601HDS Stratus with Ram heads 337 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: LE tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Zodie warriors, A few stupid questions about installation of LE tank in an HDS. I don't have the plans (for LE tank), and I am sort of winging it. I built the tank to fit snugly to the LE skin and have cut the cork around the drain, vent line, and flush cap fittings. Q1: Is it undesirable in any way for the skin to touch the tank directly (without cork)? I.E. at the filler cap and fitting flanges. they are a bit too tight for a layer of cork. I will obviously attach a secured ground wire. Any thoughts? Q2: How far should the vent line protrude through the bottom skin? Q3: For the fuel sender: When the tank is upright, it reads 10, and when I turn it upside down and hear the float plop on the top of the tank it reads 180 ohms. It this so common sensical that I am missing something important. ( I have read of many builders filling with water / fuel to test the float placement / bend in probe.) Q4: I can't find drawings / instructions for aileron trim. Make it look like the elevator trim??? Thanks in advance, Brandon Tucker __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:30 PM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LE tank --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: LE tank > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker > > Zodie warriors, > > A few stupid questions about installation of LE > tank in an HDS. I don't have the plans (for LE tank), > and I am sort of winging it. I built the tank to fit > snugly to the LE skin and have cut the cork around the > drain, vent line, and flush cap fittings. > > Q1: Is it undesirable in any way for the skin to > touch the tank directly (without cork)? I.E. at the > filler cap and fitting flanges. they are a bit too > tight for a layer of cork. I will obviously attach a > secured ground wire. Any thoughts? The intent is to keep all surfaces from abraiding each other, so nothing should touch with the exception of the ground wire. I'd put a thinner gasket material (duct tape?) where movement and contact seem too close. > Q2: How far should the vent line protrude > through the bottom skin? I put my vent line 3/4" below the skin, and wonder if it shouldn't be cut at 40-degrees to put a positive pressure on it to keep it from drawing down sloshed fuel. > > Q3: For the fuel sender: When the tank is > upright, it reads 10, and when I turn it upside down > and hear the float plop on the top of the tank it > reads 180 ohms. It this so common sensical that I am > missing something important. ( I have read of many > builders filling with water / fuel to test the float > placement / bend in probe.) The gage will read an empty tank if you test it. Bend it to work best without filling with water. The reading will not be accurate with water and it would tend to frustrate you. I did LE tanks and tried water, etc, but on the header, I bent the float arm dry and it's perfect now. > > Q4: I can't find drawings / instructions for > aileron trim. Make it look like the elevator trim??? Essentially, yes if you're doing the attached hinge and extended flap type on drawing 6-E-1. The sizes might be a bit different, but not by much. > > Thanks in advance, > > Brandon Tucker You're welcome, Larry McFarland - 601HDS ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:06 PM PST US From: Benford2@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 7/19/2004 11:57:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time, drmiller@cvillepsychology.net writes: > > I know the fuel tank pressure test is supposed to be 39" of water, but need > to know what it would be in PSI. > Does anybody know? > Bob > 39" of water is about 15 psi. If you pressurize your tanks to that you will need new tanks if you survive the explosion, ben haas n801bh ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:57 PM PST US From: VideoFlyer@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair Prop --> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com I am building a 601XL and am looking very hard at the Corvair engine. I have WW's manual and have a line on a couple of engines. What size prop is a good choice for this engine and plane? Two blade? Three blade? I know the choices are many. I would just like to hear what some of you are using and whether you're happy with your choice. Dave Harms videoflyer@aol.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:07 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Zenith-List: Wheel Pants and Cowling --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" My wheel pants can be seen at the address below. They are fresh out to the molds. The only thing I did to them after popping them out of the molds was to seam them together. Of course I had to drill holes and make cut outs for installing. They are totally paint ready except the seam, which will require a little work. I'm not trying to be a smarta**, but with all the talk about the sorry quality of the ZAC pants/fairings, I thought it should be shown what they should look like. For the money they cost, they should be high quality. I have a lot of close up pictures if anyone is interested. I will be marketing them when I finish with my 701. I don't know about prices yet, I'll post it when I'm ready to start making them. I also started my cowling today. http://www.angelfire.com/un/ch701/cowl.html Larry Martin, N1345L Take a look at my site. Larry's 701 --- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:21 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:21:05 -0500 --> Zenith-List message posted by: On Page 6W11 of my plans, at the bottom of the page, it says to pressure test the tanks to approx 4 psi. An engineer worked it out for me as 9.3 feet of water, which I accomplished by hanging a length of vinyl tubing out the upstairs bedroom window, attaching it to the vent pipe, and filling tank and tubing through a funnel until I had the tube filled to the right height. Not to throw rocks, but I suspect someone may have lost a decimal point somewhere. My tanks didn't explode, but they did show a few small leaks which needed attention. Realistically, though, how could you ever develop 4 psi in a tank with an open vent tube built into the tank? Paul Rodriguez 601XL, corvair powered wings done, starting on fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: Benford2@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com In a message dated 7/19/2004 11:57:52 AM Mountain Daylight Time, drmiller@cvillepsychology.net writes: > > I know the fuel tank pressure test is supposed to be 39" of water, but need > to know what it would be in PSI. > Does anybody know? > Bob > 39" of water is about 15 psi. If you pressurize your tanks to that you will need new tanks if you survive the explosion, ben haas n801bh ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601xl assembly instructions 6B9 through 6B11 From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne Hello 601XL Builders, The 601XL assembly instructions for 6B9 and 6B10 cover assembly of the rudder pedals, brake master cylinders and fitting of the firewall to the front floor section. The last photo on page 3 of the 6B10 assembly instructions shows the fuselage sides from the firewall back, all miraculously assembled without further instruction. The 6B11 assembly instructions are more of the same. There does not appear to be any instruction on fitting the top forward longerons. Am I missing something here or are other builders just proceeding on plans only through this section? DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. ===========================================================================