---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/21/04: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:18 AM - Re: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? (cgalley) 2. 06:11 AM - Verner 133 M engine (Dirk Slabbert) 3. 07:24 AM - Re: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop (Daniel Vandenberg) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? (Robert Schoenberger) 5. 07:55 AM - Re: 601XL or RV9A? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 08:34 AM - 601 Rudder Bushings (David Tellet) 7. 09:10 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Bushings (Scott Laughlin) 8. 09:12 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Bushings (Jack Russell) 9. 09:21 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Bushings (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 10. 09:40 AM - OSH 2004 (royt.or@netzero.com) 11. 09:49 AM - Re: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop (Chip W. Erwin) 12. 09:49 AM - Re: 601 Rudder Bushings (Leo J. Corbalis) 13. 10:01 AM - ZAC Dinner (Chuck Deiterich) 14. 10:04 AM - Re: OSH 2004 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 15. 11:16 AM - Re: ZAC Dinner () 16. 11:32 AM - Re: ZAC Dinner (Ed Kramer) 17. 12:15 PM - Re: 601XL or RV9A? (Ray Montagne) 18. 12:25 PM - Re: OSH 2004 (88tierra) 19. 12:49 PM - Re: 601XL or RV9A? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 20. 12:50 PM - Re: ZAC Dinner (Jon Croke) 21. 01:19 PM - Oshkosh (Zenith Aircraft Company) 22. 01:21 PM - Re: OSH 2004 (Ed Kramer) 23. 02:37 PM - Re: CH701with floats -- MTOW? (Gordon Duke) 24. 02:41 PM - Re: Oshkosh (Dave Alberti) 25. 03:23 PM - Sport Pilot/LSA (Gig Giacona) 26. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: CH701with floats -- MTOW? (Robert Schoenberger) 27. 04:11 PM - anyone seen this (Ronnie Wehba) 28. 05:09 PM - Re: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop (Daniel Vandenberg) 29. 05:18 PM - Re: ZAC Dinner (Chuck Deiterich) 30. 05:30 PM - Re: 601XL or RV9A? (Ray Montagne) 31. 07:00 PM - Re: OSH 2004 (Brett) 32. 07:00 PM - Re: OSH 2004 (Brett) 33. 07:01 PM - Re: OSH 2004 (Brett) 34. 08:56 PM - New Sport Pilot Limits and 601HDS (Tom Orsborn) 35. 11:08 PM - Re: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop (Chip W. Erwin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:18:58 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "cgalley" Why? That is the standard number. What to you think gasoline weighs per cubic foot? Remember there are only 231 cu inches in a gallon. - Old Physics Teacher. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" > > I have a tough time believing a qubic foot of water weighs 62.4 lbs > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > Schoenberger > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > > With respect to the writer, I believe this reply is in error by a factor of > 10. Imagine a cubic foot container of water, 12" on each side. The water in > the container weighs 62.4 pounds. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:08 AM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Zenith-List: Verner 133 M engine --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" Has anyone had a look at this engine for the 701? Seems a lot lighter (143 lb) than the 912, same hp. Dirk. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:02 AM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Chip... Everybody in Zenith world, including me, knows the 601XL has been flying on floats for years. That was not the question. The question was about the 601 on the new 1200 amphib floats that Skyshop claims has made such an improvement in the 701 cruise speed. Thanks... Dan "Chip W. Erwin" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W. Erwin" I have been flying the 601XL on floats for a couple years. It is very nice. The gross weight is about 650 kg which fits nicely with the new LSA rule. See our web site for some photos. Chip CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS LUCNI 1824 686 02 STARE MESTO, CZECH REPUBLIC TEL: +420 572 543 456 FAX: +420 572 543 692 USA FAX: 772-264-0936 E-MAIL: AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ WWW.AIRPLANE.CZ -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Vandenberg Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Have you, or do you plan to, put the new 1200 amphib floats on the 601XL? danny@skyshops.org wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: danny@skyshops.org --- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:21 AM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" Tch! Tch! - such a lack of faith. And salt water weighs 64.3 lbs. per cubic foot. Have a quality day! do not archive. Robert Schoenberger 701 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" > > I have a tough time believing a qubic foot of water weighs 62.4 lbs > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert > Schoenberger > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Fuel Tank pressure test--what's the PSI? > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" > > > With respect to the writer, I believe this reply is in error by a factor of > 10. Imagine a cubic foot container of water, 12" on each side. The water in > the container weighs 62.4 pounds. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:46 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" And if you build a nice RV9A you'll be able to sell it for what you got in it.....:) I'm surprised at the higher payload I have not checked this out. I can tell you that airplanes fly over gross weight all the time. While I don't specifically condone this I do do it on a big camping trip. Note the guy who flew round the world o=in his RV4...Van's specifically approved a 36% over gross weight so he could carry all the fuel...Not structural modifactions at all. The HDS flys like a duck at 50lbs over and the stall speed goes up by 5mph. I know the RV9 has a particularly low stall speed and I bet therfore a very low wing loading. I bet as long as your CG does not go behind the aft CG it will be a big factor between the A/C...Unless you really want to pull 4G on a cross country...:) Frank HDS 337 hours with Ram heads -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bruce Johnson" I've not even started my pilot lessons yet ... but... I guarantee I'll NEVER go for a 3rd class medical checkup without having gone to a different doctor a week or so before so I know the results of the 3rd class... If I won't pass the 3rd class, my medical will expire and I'll be a sport pilot... Each medical will cost twice as much that way... but I'll be flying longer... Bruce > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris > Boultinghouse > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 6:42 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chris Boultinghouse" > > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave VanLanen" > > > > > > Based on my research, there are two other advantages to the 601XL > > over > the > > RV-9A that were not mentioned: > > > > * Higher payload > > > > * Meets the new Sport Pilot requirements - this can be a > > big one, if > > the builder were to lose his/her medical > > Actually, that's not relevant. If you *lose* your medical, you won't > be able to fly as a Sport Pilot either. Now, if you've never *had* a > medical, that's > a different story. See the final rules posted on the FAA site today. > > -Chris "going for a 3rd class renewal tomorrow" B. > > do not archive > > > > --- == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:35 AM PST US From: David Tellet Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Bushings --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Tellet List, The bushing for the lower rudder hinge that Zenith provided is about an inch long but the space between the plates is about 4 mm. Is the intention that we cut these to size? Or did I just get the wrong piece? I looked in the archives but I'm still not sure I understand how these bushings are supposed to work. Is the idea that they are press fitted into the hinge plates and then bolted so they don't move out of the plates, or are they loose and allowed to rotate in the plates? Also, should I fit the horiz stab on the rear fuse before setting the rudder hinge plates to make sure all clearances are met? As always, thanks for the help. David Tellet 601HD ~50% done ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:07 AM PST US From: "Scott Laughlin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Bushings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" David: I'm monkeying around with this very issue as well. I'm making mine from 1 foot of 1/4" X .028 tubing, so I don't know what Zenith supplies. Someone else will have to jump in with that answer. But for the second part of your question, I interpret the drawings to show the bushing clamped between the bolt head and the nut. The bushing turns inside of the rudder hinges. The bushing turns with the bolt - the bolt does not turn inside the bushing. If anybody knows different, please let us know. I plan to chuck the tubing in my lathe and square up the faces to the exact 4.2mm dimension (as close as possible). You could probably do this on a drill press with sandpaper or a file on the table portion if you were careful. I'm fitting mine without the Horiz. Stab drilled. I hope that's not a mistake. Scott Laughlin Website down due to DOS attack www.cooknwithgas.com DO NOT ARCHIVE ----Original Message Follows---- From: David Tellet Is the intention that we cut these to size? Or did I just get the wrong piece? Also, should I fit the horiz stab on the rear fuse before setting the rudder hinge plates to make sure all clearances are met? As always, thanks for the help. David Tellet Overwhelmed by debt? Find out how to Dig Yourself Out of Debt from MSN ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:33 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Bushings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell David: Unless Zenith changed the kit you have the wrong bushing in your hand. My lower bushing fit the lower bearing without cutting. --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Tellet The bushing for the lower rudder hinge that Zenith provided is about an inch long but the space between the plates is about 4 mm. Is the intention that we cut these to size? Or did I just get the wrong piece? Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Bushings From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" The bushings are supposed to clamp tight and not rotate. You need to cut them to length. Yes mount the horiz stab first...I remember pulling mine forward a bit to clear the rudder. I spent quite a lot of time getting full deflection on all the surfaces. A bit of a waste of time really, I don't think I ever used full rudder except when doing spins! If you ever need full elevator its probably 'cuz your engine fell off! Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Tellet Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Bushings --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Tellet List, The bushing for the lower rudder hinge that Zenith provided is about an inch long but the space between the plates is about 4 mm. Is the intention that we cut these to size? Or did I just get the wrong piece? I looked in the archives but I'm still not sure I understand how these bushings are supposed to work. Is the idea that they are press fitted into the hinge plates and then bolted so they don't move out of the plates, or are they loose and allowed to rotate in the plates? Also, should I fit the horiz stab on the rear fuse before setting the rudder hinge plates to make sure all clearances are met? As always, thanks for the help. David Tellet 601HD ~50% done == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:58 AM PST US From: "royt.or@netzero.com" Subject: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" Hi, I'll be flying N601RT from Oregon to OSH again this year. I expect to be at OSH from Tues thru part of Friday. I'm sure to see some of you at the Zenith Builders dinner on Thursday evening. Is anyone else flying a Zenith to OSH this year? Any meeting time/place for list members? If anyone wants to meet me (or see N601RT) at OSH send me an email before Friday 7/23 end of day and I send you my cell phone number. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 239hrs, 328 landings ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:43 AM PST US From: "Chip W. Erwin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W. Erwin" We changed the installation angle on the 701 which results in slightly longer take-off runs and significantly improved cruise. The 601XL does not hae the extreme rotation angles as possible with the 701 so the angle is already low on the 601. CHIP CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS LUCNI 1824 686 02 STARE MESTO, CZECH REPUBLIC TEL: +420 572 543 456 FAX: +420 572 543 692 USA FAX: 772-264-0936 E-MAIL: AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ WWW.AIRPLANE.CZ Chip... Everybody in Zenith world, including me, knows the 601XL has been flying on floats for years. That was not the question. The question was about the 601 on the new 1200 amphib floats that Skyshop claims has made such an improvement in the 701 cruise speed. Thanks... Dan --- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:43 AM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Rudder Bushings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" The design is that the bushing is clamped tight and the bolt never twists so you don't need a cotter pin in the nut. All the movement is between the 1/8 in. aluminum and the outside of the bushing. Yes you have to cut the yube to length. Get a friend with a lathe to make a few, varying the length by 1/2 mm. The stab goes as far foreward as possible and you may still have some interference at maximum deflection. To trial fit, just use 2 rivets on each stab support so you can drill them out and move stuff and then drill and final rivet the brackets. Leo Corbalis 601HDS Zenith-List message posted by: David Tellet > > The bushing for the lower rudder hinge that Zenith provided is about an inch long but the space between the plates is about 4 mm. Is the intention that we cut these to size? Or did I just get the wrong piece? > > I looked in the archives but I'm still not sure I understand how these bushings are supposed to work. Is the idea that they are press fitted into the hinge plates and then bolted so they don't move out of the plates, or are they loose and allowed to rotate in the plates? > > Also, should I fit the horiz stab on the rear fuse before setting the rudder hinge plates to make sure all clearances are met? > > As always, thanks for the help. > > > David Tellet > 601HD ~50% done > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:11 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Listers, Is anyone planning to attend the July 29, ZAC dinner at Oshkosh? USA Jabiru is having a gathering the same day but Pete K. says it will last to after dark so I hope to go to it after the ZAC fling. Chuck D. N701TX do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Roy you're an animal...:) Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of royt.or@netzero.com Subject: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" --> Hi, I'll be flying N601RT from Oregon to OSH again this year. I expect to be at OSH from Tues thru part of Friday. I'm sure to see some of you at the Zenith Builders dinner on Thursday evening. Is anyone else flying a Zenith to OSH this year? Any meeting time/place for list members? If anyone wants to meet me (or see N601RT) at OSH send me an email before Friday 7/23 end of day and I send you my cell phone number. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 239hrs, 328 landings == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:25 AM PST US From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: I will be there... Where and when is the Jabiru dinner? Pat S. Do not archive Patrick M. Stafford, Ph.D. Director of Medical Physics New Mexico Cancer Center 4901 Lang Blvd. NE Albuquerque, NM 87109 505-842-8171 -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Deiterich Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Listers, Is anyone planning to attend the July 29, ZAC dinner at Oshkosh? USA Jabiru is having a gathering the same day but Pete K. says it will last to after dark so I hope to go to it after the ZAC fling. Chuck D. N701TX do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:14 AM PST US From: "Ed Kramer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" I'm going, hope to meet some of you there. Ed Kramer West Seneca, NY CH 701 edair701@adelphia.net Build Status: Stalled until cold weather. Completed: Rudder, Left wing, Right wing. Working On: Flaperons 50% Do Not Archive > Listers, > > Is anyone planning to attend the July 29, ZAC dinner at Oshkosh? USA Jabiru is having a gathering the same day but Pete K. says it will last to after dark so I hope to go to it after the ZAC fling. > > Chuck D. > N701TX > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 7/21/04 7:55 AM, "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > I'm surprised at the higher payload I have not checked this out. I can > tell you that airplanes fly over gross weight all the time. Yes - and Alaska Bush Pilots do it all the time too - with certified aircraft. That does not make the practice safe. You are forever a test pilot when flying an aircraft that this has been done in just one time. Further, all passengers are also put into the same category as a test pilot. Overstressing is cumulative and ultimately can be catastrophic. See which has a good article on this issue. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA =========================================================================== Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. =========================================================================== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:41 PM PST US From: "88tierra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" It is unlikely that I would be able to make the dinner as I am driving in after work on the 29th but I would like to stop in later if possible. Where is the dinner to be held? -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of royt.or@netzero.com Subject: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" --> Hi, I'll be flying N601RT from Oregon to OSH again this year. I expect to be at OSH from Tues thru part of Friday. I'm sure to see some of you at the Zenith Builders dinner on Thursday evening. Is anyone else flying a Zenith to OSH this year? Any meeting time/place for list members? If anyone wants to meet me (or see N601RT) at OSH send me an email before Friday 7/23 end of day and I send you my cell phone number. Regards, Roy N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 239hrs, 328 landings advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:49:24 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Like I said I don't condone it for everyone but for on an occasional basis its OK. Remember this airframe is supposedly rated to 6G at gross weight...So we'll call that 4.5 G with a 1.5 safety factor. 4.5G is a significant number (full loops are done at about 3G) and almost impossible to achieve on a cross country. Significant safety margin I think. The flying is a different matter, the stall will be higher. Frank Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ray Montagne Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 7/21/04 7:55 AM, "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > I'm surprised at the higher payload I have not checked this out. I can > tell you that airplanes fly over gross weight all the time. Yes - and Alaska Bush Pilots do it all the time too - with certified aircraft. That does not make the practice safe. You are forever a test pilot when flying an aircraft that this has been done in just one time. Further, all passengers are also put into the same category as a test pilot. Overstressing is cumulative and ultimately can be catastrophic. See which has a good article on this issue. DO NOT ARCHIVE Best Regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ======================================================================== === Zenith Aircraft Zodiac CH-601-XL Build Status: Rudder completed Elevator Completed Stabilizer Completed Flaps Completed Ailerons Completed Right Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Left Wing Completed Right Wing Tip Completed Fuselage Under Construction NOTE: Heavy SPAM filters in place. Replies that do not include the word 'Zenith' or 'Zodiac' will be rejected and will not be viewable by me. ======================================================================== === == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:20 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" I am planning too, to attend the dinner. As I recall from previous dinners that I made in the past, there were no name tags... so you really had to work a little extra hard at making contacts to the 'hey you' across the table.... I will try to get a hold of a bunch of name tages to have ready at the door, or sooner (ZAC booth). I missed last year, was this issue taken care of then?? across the Green Bay from Osh Jon N701US > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > I will be there... Where and when is the Jabiru dinner? > > Pat S. > > Do not archive > > > Patrick M. Stafford, Ph.D. > Director of Medical Physics > New Mexico Cancer Center > 4901 Lang Blvd. NE > Albuquerque, NM 87109 > > 505-842-8171 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Deiterich > To: zenith-list > Subject: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" > > Listers, > > Is anyone planning to attend the July 29, ZAC dinner at Oshkosh? USA Jabiru > is having a gathering the same day but Pete K. says it will last to after > dark so I hope to go to it after the ZAC fling. > > Chuck D. > N701TX > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:30 PM PST US From: "Zenith Aircraft Company" Subject: Zenith-List: Oshkosh --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zenith Aircraft Company" Hi List! We have a unique opportunity to display a Zodiac at the EAA membership tent at AirVenture. EAA staff have asked us to locate a builder of a completed ZODIAC to display at the main EAA membership tent on the fly-in grounds (July 26 - August 2). This is a prime location and excellent exposure for your airplane (yet your plane would be secured and cordoned off). Please let me know if you would be interested. At Oshkosh next week: Builders Dinner: Thursday, July 29: 6:00 - 8:00 pm: Robbins Restaurant, 1810 Omro Road (Hwy 21), Oshkosh. RSVP at Zenith booth. Chris Heintz will review his 30 years as a light-aircraft designer in a special forum on July 28 at 2:30 pm: "1974-2004: Light Aircraft Designs From Chris Heintz Over The Past 30 Years" For additional info about Zenith at Oshkosh: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oshkosh2004.html For the latest news and updates about the new FAA Sport Pilot Rule: http://www.zenithair.com/news/sport-pilot.html and http://www.sportpilot.org See you next week at Oshkosh! Sebastien Heintz Zenith Aircraft Company http://www.zenithair.com Tel: (573) 581-9000 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:31 PM PST US From: "Ed Kramer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ed Kramer" > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" >Where is the dinner to be held? Zenair Builders Dinner: Thursday, July 29: 6:00 - 8:00 pm: Robbins Restaurant, 1810 Omro Road (Hwy 21), Oshkosh, WI. RSVP at the Zenith booth. There is a link for the dinner with all the info including driving directions in the builders pages on the Zenith Website. Ed Kramer West Seneca, NY CH 701 edair701@adelphia.net Build Status: Stalled until cold weather. Completed: Rudder, Left wing, Right wing. Working On: Flaperons 50% Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:37:41 PM PST US From: "Gordon Duke" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: CH701with floats -- MTOW? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" Please allow me to pursue my question about the effect of floats on max take-off weight. I do not see how floats can do anything other than eat up weight capacity. In my opinion, the issue is possible overstress of the airframe. The added structural rigging of floats may beef up the front of the fuselage, but does nothing for the wings and aft fuselage. If I am flying a 701 at more than 1100 pounds, how can I not have an increased risk of overstressing the airplane no matter what the source of the extra weight? In support, I found that the Department of the Interior faced a similar question of flying amphibian C206's overgross by about 300 pounds. They had an extensive study and detailed specific directions for when this was to be allowed. Of interest to me was a reference to "FAA Certified MTGW" and a requirement for special inspections in the event that G loads exceeded +2.5 or -0.5 G. http://www.oas.gov/library/opm/04-50.pdf It seems prudent to strengthen the wings and the aft fuselage or as a minimum, install a G-meter and fly very gently. == Gordon Duke St. Paul, MN USA 701 rudder do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:11 PM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Oshkosh --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" I plan on flying in on Sunday Morning and did not anticipate flying during the event. I live in Milwaukee so it's a short hop for me. Dave Alberti 601 HD 912ULS N8513Z -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Zenith Aircraft Company Subject: Zenith-List: Oshkosh --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Zenith Aircraft Company" Hi List! We have a unique opportunity to display a Zodiac at the EAA membership tent at AirVenture. EAA staff have asked us to locate a builder of a completed ZODIAC to display at the main EAA membership tent on the fly-in grounds (July 26 - August 2). This is a prime location and excellent exposure for your airplane (yet your plane would be secured and cordoned off). Please let me know if you would be interested. At Oshkosh next week: Builders Dinner: Thursday, July 29: 6:00 - 8:00 pm: Robbins Restaurant, 1810 Omro Road (Hwy 21), Oshkosh. RSVP at Zenith booth. Chris Heintz will review his 30 years as a light-aircraft designer in a special forum on July 28 at 2:30 pm: "1974-2004: Light Aircraft Designs From Chris Heintz Over The Past 30 Years" For additional info about Zenith at Oshkosh: http://www.zenithair.com/news/oshkosh2004.html For the latest news and updates about the new FAA Sport Pilot Rule: http://www.zenithair.com/news/sport-pilot.html and http://www.sportpilot.org See you next week at Oshkosh! Sebastien Heintz Zenith Aircraft Company http://www.zenithair.com Tel: (573) 581-9000 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:00 PM PST US From: "Gig Giacona" Subject: Zenith-List: Sport Pilot/LSA --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" This from EAA Quick Answers to Sport Pilot Questions Here is a collection of answers to some of the more common Sport Pilot questions received this week at EAA headquarters. Gross weight = 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) Floatplanes = 1,430 (650 kilograms) Maximum Full Power Speed = 120 knots (138 mph) Stall Speed = 45 knots (52 mph) no more dual stall speeds Fixed Prop - may be ground adjustable Fixed Gear - amphibians allowed "repositionable" gear Two- Place - pilot and one passenger Day VFR Driver's License Medical Approved - however, if you have received a letter with the word "denied" from FAA, not from your doctor, you must get a one-time special issuance or FAA authorization even if you have been denied in the past, you can try again for special issuance (medicines have changed, for example) more on this as EAA continues to analyze the new rule. Owner Maintenance Approved on ELSAs - no changes - if you are operating an Amateur-Built or Standard category as an LSA, maintenance remains as it was without change. No Recertification of aircraft required or permitted (this means ultralights are converted to ELSAs; all other aircraft certification and maintenance remain the same). Rule Effective Date = 9/1/04. --- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:13 PM PST US From: "Robert Schoenberger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: CH701with floats -- MTOW? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" What if the aerodynamics of the floats have an upward push against the bottom of the fus? Wouldn't this lessen the load? Just a thought. Robert Schoenberger 701 Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon Duke" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: CH701with floats -- MTOW? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gordon Duke" > > Please allow me to pursue my question about the effect of floats on max > take-off weight. I do not see how floats can do anything other than eat up > weight capacity. In my opinion, the issue is possible overstress of the > airframe. The added structural rigging of floats may beef up the front of > the fuselage, but does nothing for the wings and aft fuselage. If I am > flying a 701 at more than 1100 pounds, how can I not have an increased risk > of overstressing the airplane no matter what the source of the extra weight? > > In support, I found that the Department of the Interior faced a similar > question of flying amphibian C206's overgross by about 300 pounds. They had > an extensive study and detailed specific directions for when this was to be > allowed. Of interest to me was a reference to "FAA Certified MTGW" and a > requirement for special inspections in the event that G loads exceeded +2.5 > or -0.5 G. > > http://www.oas.gov/library/opm/04-50.pdf > > It seems prudent to strengthen the wings and the aft fuselage or as a > minimum, install a G-meter and fly very gently. > > == Gordon Duke > St. Paul, MN USA > 701 rudder > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:32 PM PST US From: "Ronnie Wehba" Subject: Zenith-List: anyone seen this --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ronnie Wehba" http://www.sauer-flugmotorenbau.de/ look at the oil lines to the intake ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:25 PM PST US From: Daniel Vandenberg Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: Daniel Vandenberg Chip... Based on your website, it is my impression that the new 1200 amphib setup allows the removal of the nosegear, and also has a redesigned maingear retraction system that allows for improved streamlining in that area. Both of these changes would, in theory, improve cruise speed indepentant of the angle of the installation angle. That is why I asked the question as to whether you have tried these floats on the 601XL. I am very interested in the 601XL on floats and the availability of the package may sway me into building the 601XL instead of the RV-9A. So may I ask the question again? Have you tried the new 1200 ampib floats on the 601XL, or do you plan to? Do you see any potential increase in cruise speed with the 1200 amphibs on the 601XL? Thanks... Dan "Chip W. Erwin" wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W. Erwin" We changed the installation angle on the 701 which results in slightly longer take-off runs and significantly improved cruise. The 601XL does not hae the extreme rotation angles as possible with the 701 so the angle is already low on the 601. CHIP CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS LUCNI 1824 686 02 STARE MESTO, CZECH REPUBLIC TEL: +420 572 543 456 FAX: +420 572 543 692 USA FAX: 772-264-0936 E-MAIL: AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ WWW.AIRPLANE.CZ Chip... Everybody in Zenith world, including me, knows the 601XL has been flying on floats for years. That was not the question. The question was about the 601 on the new 1200 amphib floats that Skyshop claims has made such an improvement in the 701 cruise speed. Thanks... Dan --- --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:01 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Pat, I got this off the Jabiru List. Chuck From: "Pete Krotje" Subject: Oshkosh Jabiru Party Hello All Listers, Once again Jabiru USA Flight Center will host its annual Jabiru party and fly in on Thursday evening of the Oshkosh Airventure Show. The event will once again be held at Brennand Airport, 12 miles north of OSH and commence as soon after the afternoon Airshow as possible. EAA Ultralight Chapter 41 will again cook brats and burgers, and sweet corn. Beer & soda pop will be provided. Weather permitting we will have Jabiru aircraft and Jabiru powered aircraft in the air at all times. Please stop by the booth (booth 410 & 411 in the north aircraft display) for tickets and directions. We'll find transportation for you if needed. All you care to eat brats, burgers, sweet corn, pop, & beer for a $5.00 donation to the UL Chapter 41. Hope to see you there and we're looking to break the attendance record of 123 set last year! From Oshkosh: Travel north on Hwy 41 about 4.5 miles north of the bridge. Exit 41 on Hwy 76 north (for those with older maps - hwy 76 was hwy 45 last year) Travel north 4 miles to the stop light at 76 & Breezewood Turn Left on Breezewood and go mile to airport on right. Park in parking See www.usjabiru.com for details. Pete do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: Zenith-List: ZAC Dinner > --> Zenith-List message posted by: > > I will be there... Where and when is the Jabiru dinner? > > Pat S. > > Do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601XL or RV9A? From: Ray Montagne --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ray Montagne On 7/21/04 12:47 PM, "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > but for on an occasional basis its OK. I'm not intending to create a big argument but actually it is not OK - ever. Drain a little fuel or leave something behind but please do not fly over gross. You don't know when you might encounter unexpected turbulence that may overstress a component, possibly not to the point of immediate failure but weakening the component such that it no longer can tolerate its original design limits. Be aware that light acceleration forces may lead to catastrophic failure after overloading. Each overload event is cumulative (ask any aerobatic pilot about cumulative stress) and your betting your life (and possibly your passengers) that you'll get away with this in the future because you've gotten away with it in the past. I'm not intending to argue. I am very concerned about your safety. I would very much like to continue to see your posts to this list. I refer you back to and more specifically, search the page for "REAL WORLD RAMIFICATIONS OF THE PERFORMANCE OF THE EXISTING BUSH PLANE FLEET". Best regards, Ray Montagne Cupertino, CA ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:07 PM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " I'll be in booth #35 in the main display area. Stop by and see me. Brett > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" > > > Hi, > > I'll be flying N601RT from Oregon to OSH again this year. I expect to be at OSH from Tues thru part of Friday. I'm sure to see some of you at the Zenith Builders dinner on Thursday evening. > > Is anyone else flying a Zenith to OSH this year? Any meeting time/place for list members? > > If anyone wants to meet me (or see N601RT) at OSH send me an email before Friday 7/23 end of day and I send you my cell phone number. > > Regards, > > Roy > > N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 239hrs, 328 landings > > > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > > > > > > Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:00:07 PM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " I'll be in booth #35 in the main display area. Stop by and see me. Brett > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" > > > Hi, > > I'll be flying N601RT from Oregon to OSH again this year. I expect to be at OSH from Tues thru part of Friday. I'm sure to see some of you at the Zenith Builders dinner on Thursday evening. > > Is anyone else flying a Zenith to OSH this year? Any meeting time/place for list members? > > If anyone wants to meet me (or see N601RT) at OSH send me an email before Friday 7/23 end of day and I send you my cell phone number. > > Regards, > > Roy > > N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 239hrs, 328 landings > > > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > > > > > > Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:20 PM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: OSH 2004 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " I'll be in booth #35 in the main display area. Stop by and see me. Brett > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" > > > Hi, > > I'll be flying N601RT from Oregon to OSH again this year. I expect to be at OSH from Tues thru part of Friday. I'm sure to see some of you at the Zenith Builders dinner on Thursday evening. > > Is anyone else flying a Zenith to OSH this year? Any meeting time/place for list members? > > If anyone wants to meet me (or see N601RT) at OSH send me an email before Friday 7/23 end of day and I send you my cell phone number. > > Regards, > > Roy > > N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped, 239hrs, 328 landings > > > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > > > > > > Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:56:10 PM PST US From: "Tom Orsborn" Subject: Zenith-List: New Sport Pilot Limits and 601HDS --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Tom Orsborn" Has anyone explored what it takes to get the 601HDS at gross below the new Sport Pilot limits of 45 knots/52 mph stall speed. Tom Orsborn tom-orsborn@houston.rr.com ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:05 PM PST US From: "Chip W. Erwin" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CH701with floats -- MTOW? Skyshop --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chip W. Erwin" No, we did not install 4-wheel system to the 601XL. It would make a difference in cruise speed, but it would be hard for me to give you accurate data. Perhaps 4-5 mph increase in cruise. We do make floats for the RV. They are more than double the cost as they are a few sizes bigger. Regards, CHIP CZECH AIRCRAFT WORKS LUCNI 1824 686 02 STARE MESTO, CZECH REPUBLIC TEL: +420 572 543 456 FAX: +420 572 543 692 USA FAX: 772-264-0936 E-MAIL: AIRCRAFT@CZAW.CZ WWW.AIRPLANE.CZ Based on your website, it is my impression that the new 1200 amphib setup allows the removal of the nosegear, and also has a redesigned maingear retraction system that allows for improved streamlining in that area. Both of these changes would, in theory, improve cruise speed indepentant of the angle of the installation angle. That is why I asked the question as to whether you have tried these floats on the 601XL. I am very interested in the 601XL on floats and the availability of the package may sway me into building the 601XL instead of the RV-9A. So may I ask the question again? Have you tried the new 1200 ampib floats on the 601XL, or do you plan to? Do you see any potential increase in cruise speed with the 1200 amphibs on the 601XL? Thanks... ---