---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/02/04: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:25 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle) 2. 05:22 AM - AN fittings (Bob Gibfried) 3. 07:38 AM - 601's at Oshkosh (was aileron trim tab size) (Michel Therrien) 4. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Brass fittings and valves on aluminum tubing... (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 08:18 AM - Re: more almost free stuff (88tierra) 6. 08:43 AM - Mike Sinclair's 701 (Cdngoose) 7. 08:45 AM - A question for the XL builders (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 8. 09:01 AM - Re: more almost free stuff (rbauer@intergate.com) 9. 09:59 AM - Re: A question for the XL builders (bryanmmartin@comcast.net) 10. 11:42 AM - Re: A question for the XL builders (Jack Russell) 11. 12:14 PM - Re: A question for the XL builders (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 12. 12:26 PM - Re: A question for the XL builders (Dirk Slabbert) 13. 05:27 PM - Re: A question for the XL builders . Drilling or deburing? (Gary Gower) 14. 05:46 PM - CH 640 Quickbuild (Stephen Adams) 15. 06:37 PM - Re: AN fittings (Larry Martin) 16. 06:59 PM - Re: A question for the XL builders (Mark Stauffer) 17. 07:32 PM - Re: AN fittings (Jim and Lucy) 18. 09:03 PM - Re: Any builders in Austin or D/FW Tx? (Chuck Deiterich) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:25 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Lister, Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:45 AM PST US From: "Bob Gibfried" Subject: Zenith-List: AN fittings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried" AN fittings are AN fittings and all are the 37 degree flare. Doesn't matter who you buy them from. Believe the auto racing trade started using them because of their precise fit and lack of problems; just what you need in aviation. Larry's right; Summit is a great company to do business with. Helped me work out some problems with an electrical tach and a four cylinder engine. Only problem I've had is that the Autometer CHT's high limits are way too low. Will have to replace it. Bob, Wichita ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:16 AM PST US From: Michel Therrien Subject: 601's at Oshkosh (was Zenith-List: aileron trim tab size) --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien Wow!... I arrived on Thursday and left Sunday pm... I walked the flight line (show planes area) so many times and was able to see a single 601; a Canadian 601XL. I'm always disapointed when I see full rows of other models... Is'nt there a way to organize something so that all Zodiacs would be together at a strategic location (like near Zenithair's booth) in the showplanes area? Michel do not archive --- Jeff Small wrote: > > Could find five 601's at OSH but didn't walk > everywhere so there may have been more in the > various camping areas. > ===== ---------------------------- Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601 http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Brass fittings and valves on aluminum tubing... From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" 3/8" OD is way overkill. 1/4" on the pressure side of the pumps is more than adequate. The only place I used 3/8" was on the INLET side to the pumps on the short 1 foot section of rubber hose from my wing tanks to each pump in the last bay of the center wing. I did this for vapour lock avoidance but I'm sure even this is too big, but for a 1 foot section who cares...:) I just ordered a length from AS as its cheap enough, get morew than you need. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Brass fittings and valves on aluminum tubing... --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker Great question... I wanted to ask the same last night, but didn't want to open said "can of worms." The only finger strainer and drain valves that I could find were brass, so I figured it is considered o.k. After purchasing the fittings from the local NAPA, I decided that I should go with AN fittings and ordered them online from ACS late last night. Then this morning it dawned on me that my automotive flaring tool is not 37 deg. I sure as heck don't want to pay $$$ for an aviation flaring tool. So what is one to do?? Also, NAPA doesn't carry aluminum fuel line at all. Is there a national auto chain that carries fuel line? I plan to use 3/8 OD. Is this what everyone is using? R/ Brandon HDS port wing almost complete __________________________________ Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:54 AM PST US From: "88tierra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: more almost free stuff --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" Yes I would be interested in several pieces if they become available. L Kilburg 601 XL Do not archive --> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com Ok list. Is there any use for Fiberfrax, 1/32 thk in 2.8" diameter discs? They're punching some now & I may be able to get some if there is some overrun. Rich ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:51 AM PST US From: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Zenith-List: Mike Sinclair's 701 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca> IF Mike Sinclair is on the List could you possibly contact me at 601xl@sympatico.ca Thanks Do not archive Mark Townsend 601XL EJ 2.2L Alma, Ontario www.ch601.org ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hi Guys, I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory had invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? In other words are the XL kits all prepunched? I'm not talking about just the skins but also the ribs underneath....In other words do the XL airframes simply clecoe together right out of the box without having to drill any holes? I was trying to get an honest comparison of an RV 9 kit vs an Xl kit. The RVs are all mached hole as described above. Thanks Frank HDS 340 hours Startus with Ram heads. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:41 AM PST US From: rbauer@intergate.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: more almost free stuff --> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com Sorry. non left. Rich Quoting 88tierra : > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" > > Yes I would be interested in several pieces if they become available. > > L Kilburg > 601 XL > > Do not archive > > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: rbauer@intergate.com > > Ok list. Is there any use for Fiberfrax, 1/32 thk in 2.8" diameter discs? > They're punching some now & I may be able to get some if there is some > overrun. > > Rich > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:08 AM PST US From: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net Not on mine, some of the skins had prepunched pilot holes but no prepunched matched holes. -- N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Construction complete. Waiting on the paperwork. do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > > Hi Guys, > > I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory had > invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? > Not on mine, some of the skins had prepunched pilot holes but no prepunched matched holes. -- N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru. Construction complete. Waiting on the paperwork. do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hi Guys, I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory had invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:39 AM PST US From: Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Frank: When I visited the factory a couple of months ago Roger mentioned that they were "working" on matched hole drilling. I don't know how long "working" will be. The method of pre drilling now is pretty low tech. I think I would have preferred not having any of the holes pre drilled from ZAC. "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory had invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:09 PM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I enjoyed your website..Things do not seem to have improved much in 5 years, quality of the kit is still pretty marginal in places. I love your inside step idea...I had a similar thought but I was so sick of the whole thing by that time I slapped it on the outside per plans just to get the thing over with..I had lots of good intentions about improving the HDS after it was flying...Bad mistake...Once its flying ITS FLYING! Frank HDS Stratus with Ram heads...Yearning for speed!...:) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Russell Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Frank: When I visited the factory a couple of months ago Roger mentioned that they were "working" on matched hole drilling. I don't know how long "working" will be. The method of pre drilling now is pretty low tech. I think I would have preferred not having any of the holes pre drilled from ZAC. "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory had invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:56 PM PST US From: "Dirk Slabbert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dirk Slabbert" Well predrilling is perhaps not such a good idea, all working surfaces are not always the same ? As little as a fraction of a milimeter over say, 2 meter makes a big difference? Nothing more frustrating than predrilled holes that does'nt match ! Your part have to be perfectly straight in the end, nope, I'd rather drill an cleco ! Dirk. 701. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Russell To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 8:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell Frank: When I visited the factory a couple of months ago Roger mentioned that they were "working" on matched hole drilling. I don't know how long "working" will be. The method of pre drilling now is pretty low tech. I think I would have preferred not having any of the holes pre drilled from ZAC. "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory had invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? Jack Russell -Clovis CA 601 XL Jabiru 3300 Progress update at: http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:19 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders . Drilling or deburing? --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Is not the drilling... Is the deburing were all the fun and adreline is... ;-) :-) :-) :-) Saludos Gary Gower DO NOT ARCHIVE Bad Joke... 701 912S 99.999999% Working on final details... --- Jack Russell wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell > > > Frank: When I visited the factory a couple of months ago Roger > mentioned that they were "working" on matched hole drilling. I don't > know how long "working" will be. The method of pre drilling now is > pretty low tech. I think I would have preferred not having any of the > holes pre drilled from ZAC. > > "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory > had > invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? > > > Jack Russell -Clovis CA > 601 XL Jabiru 3300 > Progress update at: > http://www.geocities.com/clojan@sbcglobal.net/zodiacbarn.html > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:53 PM PST US From: Stephen Adams Subject: Zenith-List: CH 640 Quickbuild --> Zenith-List message posted by: Stephen Adams Hello Everyone, I hadn't seen anyone comment on the 640 quickbuild kit on the list. I just received my kit last week, and it is pretty impressive. The quality of the constuction is excellent. Although there is still a lot of work to do, all the major structures are complete. They even pre-drilled my instrument panel for all the flight instruments, switches and breakers. I started work on the right wing Thursday and all I have left to do is fit the wingtip skin and rivet the top skins and its done. I only have a few minor complaints so far. My first complaint is the way I received the kit. I ordered the entire kit, minus the firewall forward kit at once. It took forever to inventory the kit because all the small parts were thrown together in a few boxes without any organization. It would have been helpful for them to organize the parts a little better. The other complaint is just a few missing parts, again a minor complaint considering how many parts there are. I'm sure I'll find a few more significant things to complain about as I proceed with the construction, but I am really happy with the kit. If you have a little more money than time, and want to build a little (relatively speaking) and fly a lot, I think the quickbuilt kit is great. __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:15 PM PST US From: "Larry Martin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AN fittings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" Yep you are right, it's regular flared fittings for other types of plumbing that are 45 degrees. I went to McMaster-Carr site and they have all kinds of 37 degree fittings, except AN, and they also have 45 degree fittings. McMaster is another good source for braided hoses too. While checking up on this I ran across this sentence, "Also known as SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) fittings. They require 45=B0 flared tubing to mate correctly. " Two things stick out there, I didn't know what SAE meant and the 45 degrees is or can be associated to the automotive world. Anyway thanks for the education. Now we all know. Larry N1345L ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Gibfried To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 7:18 AM Subject: Zenith-List: AN fittings --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Gibfried" AN fittings are AN fittings and all are the 37 degree flare. Doesn't matter who you buy them from. Believe the auto racing trade started using them because of their precise fit and lack of problems; just what you need in aviation. Larry's right; Summit is a great company to do business with. Helped me work out some problems with an electrical tach and a four cylinder engine. Only problem I've had is that the Autometer CHT's high limits are way too low. Will have to replace it. Bob, Wichita --- Version: 6.0.729 / Virus Database: 484 - Release Date: 7/27/2004 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:15 PM PST US From: "Mark Stauffer" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Stauffer" Frank, It's a big NO! Having experienced the low tech way ZAC pre-drills holes (as well as Jack, Joe, and others) when things are wrong they're really wrong. I'm just finishing up rebuilding the left wing due to me using the predrilled holes that were off. Unfortunately I didn't notice until the damage was done. Am I still having fun? Yup! Do I still think ZAC is a very good company? Yup! Do I sometimes wish for match drilled holes like the Vans kits? Definitely!! ;-) Mark Stauffer 601XL Odenton, MD Tail finished. 2nd wing finishing up landing light, waiting on new filler neck style fuel tanks. Rear fuselage finished. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: Zenith-List: A question for the XL builders --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Hi Guys, I built an HDS a few years back and was wondering if the ZAC factory had invested in true matched hole CNC technology yet? In other words are the XL kits all prepunched? I'm not talking about just the skins but also the ribs underneath....In other words do the XL airframes simply clecoe together right out of the box without having to drill any holes? I was trying to get an honest comparison of an RV 9 kit vs an Xl kit. The RVs are all mached hole as described above. Thanks Frank HDS 340 hours Startus with Ram heads. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:10 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: AN fittings --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy At 08:36 PM 8/2/2004 -0500, you wrote: >I went to McMaster-Carr site and they have all kinds of 37 degree >fittings, except AN, The industrial world calls them JIC. Usually they are made steel or stainless steel. High pressure hydraulic systems use these everywhere among lots of other types. You can get stainless steel bulkhead fittings JIC which would be good to bring a fuel line through the firewall. Jim Pollard Merlin Ont ch601hds ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:52 PM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Any builders in Austin or D/FW Tx? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" Jeff, I have finished and am flying my 701. I live 5 miles east of Burnet, Texas (40 miles NW of Austin.) Pictures can be seen at www.geocities.com/cffd66 Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Peters" Subject: Zenith-List: Any builders in Austin or D/FW Tx? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: J Peters > > Hello all. > > I am considering the purchase of a 601xl kit from > Zenith and have been monitoring the Matronics Zenith > list for a few weeks. I am very pleased to see how, > while not perfect, everyone seems to be very happy > with their kits. do not archive