---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/11/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:02 AM - Form Block (nick pace) 2. 05:19 AM - Zenith List: Subaru EA82 (Todd & Sarah Baslee) 3. 05:35 AM - Re: Aluminum sheet question (Mark Townsend) 4. 05:51 AM - Extruded vs. formed was alumin angle 701 spar caps sources?? (baileys) 5. 06:00 AM - Re: Alumin angle 701 spar caps sources?? (David Barth) 6. 06:17 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 08/09/04 (Grant Corriveau) 7. 06:31 AM - Re: Form Block (Larry McFarland) 8. 06:59 AM - Re: Zenith List: Subaru EA82 (Larry McFarland) 9. 07:41 AM - Re: Alumin angle 701 spar caps sources?? (Philip Condon) 10. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 08/09/04 () 11. 10:40 AM - Re: Aluminum sheet question (wizard-24@juno.com) 12. 12:07 PM - Re: Aluminum sheet question (Brandon Tucker) 13. 12:56 PM - Re: Aluminum sheet question (Trevor Page) 14. 12:57 PM - Re: Aluminum sheet question (Al Young) 15. 01:10 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tire inflation (John M. Goodings) 16. 09:18 PM - Re: Zenith List: Subaru EA82 (Jim and Lucy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:17 AM PST US From: nick pace Subject: Zenith-List: Form Block --> Zenith-List message posted by: nick pace I am making my form blocks for a 601XL.Did anyone use a computer program and printer to plot them,if so can you send me the file? Thanks in advance for any help or advice. ===== A Fellow Aviator and 601XL Builder-Corvair Powered {just started} Nick Pace Harpers Ferry WV Getting Ready For My Checkride __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:44 AM PST US From: "Todd & Sarah Baslee" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith List: Subaru EA82 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Todd & Sarah Baslee" Hello list, I have recently come across a Subaru EA82 Turbocharged engine with about 70 aircraft hours on it in very good shape. It even has the PSRU. What do you think one would be worth? and Do you think it is one of the better auto to aircraft engines to use for an experimental aircraft? Thanks for the help, Todd Baslee ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:52 AM PST US From: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum sheet question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca> Trevor head down to Golden Triangle Specialty metals in Cambridge, they have a full line of 6061 T6, plus I can't find anyone cheaper. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Page" Subject: Zenith-List: Aluminum sheet question > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page > > I'm needing to make the flashing for the canopy inside and outside now > as well as some minor parts and a console. > > I can't seem to locate .025 T6 aluminum sheet locally at Metal > Supermarket. All they seem to carry is general purpose aluminum sheet > instead of T6. For what I'm doing is it acceptable to use this grade > instead of T6? Nothing here is structural of course. > > Thanks! > > Trevor Page > 601HD, Rotax 912. 90% complete, 90% to go. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:25 AM PST US From: "baileys" Subject: Zenith-List: Extruded vs. formed was alumin angle 701 spar caps sources?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" O.K. which is strongest? Referencing this question; > > That raises an interesting question...... > > > > Generally speaking: is extruded angle the same strength as a similar metal > > composition but in bend sheet form of the same dimension???? > > and this answer > > nope! > > > Based upon this statement > > > You can take some .093 sheet and put it in a break. Then shear it to > > > 3/4 x 3/4 That is what Zenith does I belive. > > > you are only talking about a half a pound more or so for 10' of > > > the .125 over the .093 > > > > > > Thanks, Bob B. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:15 AM PST US From: David Barth Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alumin angle 701 spar caps sources?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth Actually I think ZAC buys the .093 angle from the one source I found in the US that carries it. Unfortunately you have to buy a minimum of 500 feet of the stuff - (like ZAC does) so the decision was easy to go for the .125 Sorry I don't recall the name of the company. It was the result of a long and tedious search of industrial metal suppliers. It reminds me of Robin Williams in "Awakenings" . His former research was to extract 2 micrograms of mielin (sp?) from 2 tons of earthworms. "That's impossible!" said the interviewer. "I know" said Robin "I proved it". I feel like that...a little. I proved - to myself at least - that therre was no readily available source of .093 angle for the small buyer. Sorry. Just rembling this morning. do not archive david Brett wrote: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" > > Hello all, > I'm trying to buy materials and cannot seem to find 3/4 x 3/4 0.093" 6061-T6 > angle as called out for the spar caps. What I have been told by several > places is that 0.125" is the thinest they carry. Beside needing a slightly > longer rivet what are the ramifications of using the thicker material. The > weight difference should not be much of a factor. > Incidently Shaprio in St. Louis is $0.95 per foot and Airparts in KC is > $1.10. Yarde Metals on the East Coast is $0.95 and they will only ship 20 > foot lengths. > Shaprio will cut it for me and I can pick it up. Any other recommended > sources in the midwest?? > Thanks in advance, > Bob B. - Missouri > 701 - #75552 You can take some .093 sheet and put it in a break. Then shear it to 3/4 x 3/4 That is what Zenith does I belive. you are only talking about a half a pound more or so for 10' of the .125 over the .093 Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com David Barth 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done? Working on Wings www.ch601.org --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 08/09/04 From: Grant Corriveau 0.1 MIME_SUSPECT_NAME RAW": zenith-list@matronics.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau Larry, I ordered 30 psi by 24" for my application. This was based upon George Pinneo's experience and one other. Also the MacMaster website includes a formula and some intstructions on how to design an installation -- very helpful. Their foumula will calculate the required forced depending upon the geometry of your installation. I'll send one small photo to you directly of how/where I installed mine fyi. -- Grant Corriveau C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100 > A while back, someone ordered gas springs from McMasters, What force pressure > did > you order? And how do they work? > > > Larry Martin, N1345L > > Take a look at my site. Larry's 701 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:01 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Form Block --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Nick, When I began cutting patterns for the ribs, I used a CAD program to plot coordinates and make the drawings full scale. Then a paper plot with a reference + marks at each corner was drawn to find and scale printer output 1 to 1. The rib plots were overlayed by the plot + references and printed in 3 overlapping segments that were taped together with the reference marks used to align sheets. The CAD program I used was TurboCAD, but any other with scaling features would do. These can be used to get your form blocks made first, and then you can use 3M spray adhesive to hold the rib drawings on the aluminum and then the ribs can be formed and finish cut using the drawing rather than marking out the aluminum. After the pieces were done, thinner was used to soak the paper and separate it from the ribs. Worked great for me. Larry McFarland - 601HDS > > I am making my form blocks for a 601XL.Did anyone use > a computer program and printer to plot them,if so can > you send me the file? Thanks in advance for any help > or advice. > > ===== > A Fellow Aviator and 601XL Builder-Corvair Powered {just started} > Nick Pace > Harpers Ferry WV > Getting Ready For My Checkride ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:59:26 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith List: Subaru EA82 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Todd, The value of such an engine has a lot more to do with what kind of aircraft you intend to use it on, but assuming you've matched the weight of the engine with the reduction drive and find that the output and prop rpms will do what you want of it, it might be a good buy. The EA82 is a heavier engine than the more common EA-81 and is often not selected because of that issue. I would carefully re-assess how you want to use it and consider why after only 70 hours the engine was replaced by the owner. The Subaru offers a lot for the money and is a bullet of durability once you've put all the components together correctly for the aircraft. I bought one good EA81 from a car for $100, purchased a rebuilt EA81 that had all the cam, airflow and compression mods done to it with a rotax C redrive adapter on it for $2000 and then purchased a Stratus engine at their price and used that on my plane. A lot of people will argue with this, but turbocharging is problematic and fussy stuff and the EA82 is less, not more of an engine than the EA81 or the legacy 2.2 engines that have a greater following. The airsoob group on Yahoo discusses the EA82 at greater lengths, and I'm sure a better set of comparisons for your use could be found there. Price for what you describe could be worth from $500 to $2500. I don't consider the turbocharger a positive item. More than that and you have a lot of other options including used EA81s and then the hi-time 0-200s, etc. I'm not an engine guy either Larry C. McFarland - 601HDS @ www.macsmachine.com Do not archive > I have recently come across a Subaru EA82 Turbocharged engine with about 70 aircraft hours on it in very good shape. It even has the PSRU. What do you think one would be worth? and Do you think it is one of the better auto to aircraft engines to use for an experimental aircraft? > Thanks for the help, > Todd Baslee > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:09 AM PST US From: "Philip Condon" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Alumin angle 701 spar caps sources?? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" Take a close look at the aircraft extrusion aluminum angle and you will notice a radius on the inside of the formed, extruded angle. Hardware store angle aluminum doesn't have this(alloy is not the same ether). The radius adds to the strength of the angle extrusion as well as the proper alloy its extruded from. I think the answer here is use what's available, what you can get. I like the extrusion answer...buy some extra stock for all the little brackets and whatever your almost certainly going to need to make in the future > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > > > > > You can take some .093 sheet and put it in a break. Then shear it to > > 3/4 x 3/4 That is what Zenith does I belive. > > you are only talking about a half a pound more or so for 10' of > > the .125 over the .093 > > > > > That raises an interesting question...... > > Generally speaking: is extruded angle the same strength as a similar metal > composition but in bend sheet form of the same dimension???? > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:20 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 08/09/04 From: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mine was 30 lbs at 20" not 24" GGP ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum sheet question From: wizard-24@juno.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com I would definitely like a copy as well if possible. I already made mine, but it didn't turn out as nice as I would have wanted to. Mike Fortunato 601XL > I have some paper patterns for the front canopy flashing if you need > one. I did them on my plotter. They can be a little tricky to get > right. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:01 PM PST US From: Brandon Tucker Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aluminum sheet question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker > I have some paper patterns for the front canopy flashing if you need > one. I did them on my plotter. They can be a little tricky to get > right. Brett, I would love a copy as well, if possible. If you get it onto the 601 website, I'll just get it from there. Respectfully, Brandon Tucker 601 HDS Do not archive __________________________________ http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:16 PM PST US From: Trevor Page Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum sheet question --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page Yup, Golden had the stuff! Thanks Mark, now I'm out of my rut, off I go to finish some stuff. Trev On Aug 11, 2004, at 8:35 AM, Mark Townsend wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Mark Townsend" <601xl@sympatico.ca> > > Trevor head down to Golden Triangle Specialty metals in Cambridge, > they have > a full line of 6061 T6, plus I can't find anyone cheaper. > > Mark > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Trevor Page" > To: > Subject: Zenith-List: Aluminum sheet question > > >> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page >> >> I'm needing to make the flashing for the canopy inside and outside now >> as well as some minor parts and a console. >> >> I can't seem to locate .025 T6 aluminum sheet locally at Metal >> Supermarket. All they seem to carry is general purpose aluminum sheet >> instead of T6. For what I'm doing is it acceptable to use this grade >> instead of T6? Nothing here is structural of course. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Trevor Page >> 601HD, Rotax 912. 90% complete, 90% to go. >> >> > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:17 PM PST US From: "Al Young" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aluminum sheet question --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" Brett- I would like a pattern also. Al Young 601XL Canopy 50% done. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:34 PM PST US From: "John M. Goodings" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: Tire inflation --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" When a tire is considerably underinflated, the tire, tube and rim can move with respect to eachother. I think this was probably the cause of the valves being sheared off on the main gear wheels when a 601XL was operated not long ago with very low pressure in the tires. John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with Rotax 912S, Toronto/Waterloo. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:36 PM PST US From: Jim and Lucy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith List: Subaru EA82 --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy At 07:19 AM 8/11/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Todd & Sarah Baslee" > > >Hello list, > >I have recently come across a Subaru EA82 Turbocharged engine with about >70 aircraft hours on it in very good shape. It even has the PSRU. What >do you think one would be worth? and Do you think it is one of the better >auto to aircraft engines to use for an experimental aircraft? >Thanks for the help, >Todd Baslee Lots of power Wider than the ea81 by about 4 inches Its heavy fwf will be 300lbs Jim Pollard