Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:19 AM - Re: What a drag..:) ()
2. 07:57 AM - Dimple Tape (Leo Gates)
3. 08:26 AM - Re: What a drag..:) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
4. 08:55 AM - Re: Zenith List: Subaru EA82 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
5. 11:07 AM - (bruce schmidt)
6. 11:47 AM - Tire Pressure (Chuck Deiterich)
7. 12:18 PM - Caliper (Carlos Sa)
8. 12:23 PM - Re: (Rmtnview@aol.com)
9. 04:05 PM - Alcohol Thinning of Cortec VpCI-373 (Robert Eli)
10. 05:04 PM - Thinning Cortec 373 (Robert Schoenberger)
11. 05:31 PM - Re: Alcohol Thinning of Cortec VpCI-373 (Jon Croke)
12. 06:44 PM - Cockpit heat box pictures! (Trevor Page)
13. 07:58 PM - Re: Cockpit heat box pictures! (Cdngoose)
14. 07:59 PM - setback (Carlos Sa)
15. 09:22 PM - Electrical Questions (Lance Gingell)
16. 11:49 PM - Re: setback (Karl)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
I've substantially reduced the front opening in my Zenith-supplied, but now much
improved 601 HDS, 912 Rotax cowls. You oughta get a good look at one of the
original 912-powered Katanas. They have a single approx. 4" diameter opening
feeding the carb-box and a 2nd 4" opening to cool the cylinder fins! Imagine
that! Same engine, heavier, slightly faster, but much cleaner plane; I've done
a BFR in one.
The Katana certified 912 has a Rotax cylinder-shroud that forces air down, vertically
through the Rotax fins. It's made of epoxy reinforced ceramic (alumina?)
fiber and costs $1,000 US. I crudely reproduced it using .016" 6061 for less
than $2 and have closed the front of my cowl to 2 approx. 4" trapezoidal openings.
My oil rad opening is probably not properly shaped, but I fly in 110 degree
heat, OAT, with oil temps in the 190-210 range.
I believe that's part of why I'm getting something like 112 knots GPS cruise @
5,500 engine rpm.
I've posted this same info before. 470 hours since 1995.
GGP
Message 2
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Leo Gates <leogates@allvantage.com>
Hi gang. I'm about ready to start test flights and was wondering if
anyone on the list has any experience with Dimpletape?
http://www.dimpletape.com/
Leo Gates
N601Z
CH601 HDS TDO
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Very interesting George.
I have often wondered how much drag the large fish mouth opening caused
(and of course on a soob is almost completely unecessary). Sounds like
it might be some low hanging fruit in the drag reduction department.
Thanks
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
george.pinneo@ngc.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What a drag..:)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <george.pinneo@ngc.com>
I've substantially reduced the front opening in my Zenith-supplied, but
now much improved 601 HDS, 912 Rotax cowls. You oughta get a good look
at one of the original 912-powered Katanas. They have a single approx.
4" diameter opening feeding the carb-box and a 2nd 4" opening to cool
the cylinder fins! Imagine that! Same engine, heavier, slightly
faster, but much cleaner plane; I've done a BFR in one.
The Katana certified 912 has a Rotax cylinder-shroud that forces air
down, vertically through the Rotax fins. It's made of epoxy reinforced
ceramic (alumina?) fiber and costs $1,000 US. I crudely reproduced it
using .016" 6061 for less than $2 and have closed the front of my cowl
to 2 approx. 4" trapezoidal openings. My oil rad opening is probably not
properly shaped, but I fly in 110 degree heat, OAT, with oil temps in
the 190-210 range.
I believe that's part of why I'm getting something like 112 knots GPS
cruise @ 5,500 engine rpm.
I've posted this same info before. 470 hours since 1995.
GGP
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Zenith List: Subaru EA82 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Very Interesting...And very encouraging.
It would appear that setting up a realy good pressure recovery duct
complete with an effective thick rad would be well worth it...
Sadly even the FWF packaged suppliers do not appear to have sucessfully
done this yet therby presumably using much more air to cool their rads
than is needed. It seems NSI has put quite a bit of work into their
cowling mounted rad installs but I have not seen actual performance
numbers yet....Actually its very difficutl to get proper comparisons.
In actuality it takes a lot of work to get it right. For most of us (me
included) the last thing I want to do at the end of a 1000hours of work
is spend a few more hundred designing a better cooling system.
Thanks for the update Tim
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim & Diane
Shankland
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zenith List: Subaru EA82
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
--> <tshank@megsinet.net>
It's not quite that simple. I too though that the higher temperature
differential would be the controlling factor for the amount of air
needed. While up at Oshkosh this year I attended a seminar on the
comparison of air and water cooled engines. If I can figure out where I
put the handout I'd give you the name of the fellow that gave the talk.
He was a long time engineer for Cessna. Anyway he found that air-cooled
engines transfer heat very poorly. This is due to the thickness of the
fins. The must have a minimum thickness for structural purposes and the
longer they are the more difficult it is to get the heat to the end. The
end result was that a radiator with its very thin skin is much more
efficient and that negates the temperature advantage of n air cooled
engine.
Tim Shankland
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
Message 5
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1.2 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "bruce schmidt" <bschmidt613@charter.net>
Price reduced to $24,999. Hate to do it, but my CH801 is for sale or trade.
What a deal! See it
at: http://www.schmidtappraisals.net/sale.htm
Bruce Schmidt
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" <cfd@thegateway.net>
Jerry,
Attached is a data sheet from my 701 manual (1998). But the 701SP should have
the same wheels and tires. It shows how to measure the tire and then asks for
the pressure required. Zenith wants this data for finished airplanes.
Sorry it took so long to answer.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Do not archive
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Does anyone know if step measurement is a standard feature of calipers?
Carlos
do not archive
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com
Hey Bruce, I'm about to start an 801. I'm just curious, why are you selling
it?
rog
Message 9
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| Subject: | Alcohol Thinning of Cortec VpCI-373 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
Folks!
As I promised Jon Croke at the Zenith/Oshkosh dinner, I contacted Brian L.
Wuertz at Cortec with regard to using denatured alcohol to thin Cortec
VpCI-373. As you can see below (my inquiry and Brian's response), the news
is good and we can thin 373 with alcohol without reducing its performance.
I just went over to Lowe's and bought a can of alcohol, and will be thinning
the 373 with it from now on.
Bob Eli
CH701 - N701K
Dear Bob,
Cortec offers a product, S-25 that can be utilized to thin VpCI-373 to
ease application. While this is currently available in 5 gallon quantities
it is most likely too large for your type of user. Thinning with an alcohol
is a very good option and would be my next suggestion. If you have further
questions, feel free to contact me.
Kind Regards,
Brian L. Wuertz
Cortec Corporation
Technical Service Supervisor
ph# 651-429-1100 ext. 130
fax# 651-407-2710
brian_wuertz@cortecvci.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert <mailto:robert.eli@adelphia.net> Eli
Subject: Thinning Cortec VpCI-373
Brian,
You may recall our discussions last fall concerning the use of your Cortec
VpCI-373 product as a corrosion prevention coating on the interior aluminum
surfaces of homebuilt aircraft. Your product is now being used widely by
homebuilders, and there is an issue concerning thinning the product so that
it can be applied with a foam-style painting brush (this gives the smoothest
finish). Out of the can, 373 is too thick to brush on, and all builders
have reported difficulties in getting good spread ability by thinning with
water (as specified in your spec sheets). Someone tried thinning with
denatured alcohol, and it works far superior to water in giving good spread
ability, while drying to a very tough coating that appears to have extremely
good adhesion and durability. As a result, thinning with alcohol has been
adopted by most people. The question is: Are we inadvertently introducing
some chemistry by thinning with alcohol that will reduce the protective
characteristics of VpCI-373, in spite of the appearance of good performance?
We would greatly appreciate the opinion of your chemists on this matter. On
learning of the opinion, I will circulate it to the aircraft builders.
Thanks.
Bob Eli
Message 10
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| Subject: | Thinning Cortec 373 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Robert Eli wrote
"As I promised Jon Croke at the Zenith/Oshkosh dinner, I contacted Brian L.
Wuertz at Cortec with regard to using denatured alcohol to thin Cortec
VpCI-373.. . . "
I may be wrong, but I thought the instruction sheet I got with the product said
373 could be thinned with water. That's what I've been doing, and it works
beautifully. I think I added about 15%. The brush or sponge cleans up quickly
and easily. If this is so, why use alcohol? Robert Schoenberger 701 -
40%
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Alcohol Thinning of Cortec VpCI-373 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Thanks Bob, for checking that out. It was really Max Johansson from Finland
that did the research for the 'best' thinner for Cortec and 'discovered'
alcohol to be the best! But it is great to hear it from the Cortec people
themselves, nonetheless.
For those who missed the thread from a while ago.... one of the downsides of
using Cortec was that it is a little squirrely to spread on your metal
pieces... it would not flow as you would expect...and water seemed to
aggravate the situation to the point that some of us were going to abandon
the product all together! Then Max discovered that denatured alcohol made
an excellent thinner and changed how it spread when applied to the alumimum.
I tried it and made me a true believer! Now, hearing that Cortec has no
objections is icing on the cake!
I'll leave it to your imagination as to why they dont include this info in
their directions with the product.....
(always cynical!)
Jon
www.CH701.com
> As I promised Jon Croke at the Zenith/Oshkosh dinner, I contacted Brian L.
> Wuertz at Cortec with regard to using denatured alcohol to thin Cortec
> VpCI-373. As you can see below (my inquiry and Brian's response), the
news
> is good and we can thin 373 with alcohol without reducing its performance.
> I just went over to Lowe's and bought a can of alcohol, and will be
thinning
> the 373 with it from now on.
>
>
> Bob Eli
>
> CH701 - N701K
>
>
> Dear Bob,
>
> Cortec offers a product, S-25 that can be utilized to thin VpCI-373 to
> ease application. While this is currently available in 5 gallon
quantities
> it is most likely too large for your type of user. Thinning with an
alcohol
> is a very good option and would be my next suggestion. If you have
further
> questions, feel free to contact me.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Brian L. Wuertz
> Cortec Corporation
> Technical Service Supervisor
> ph# 651-429-1100 ext. 130
> fax# 651-407-2710
> brian_wuertz@cortecvci.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Robert <mailto:robert.eli@adelphia.net> Eli
>
> To: Brian_Wuertz@cortecvci.com
>
>
> Subject: Thinning Cortec VpCI-373
>
>
> Brian,
>
>
> You may recall our discussions last fall concerning the use of your Cortec
> VpCI-373 product as a corrosion prevention coating on the interior
aluminum
> surfaces of homebuilt aircraft. Your product is now being used widely by
> homebuilders, and there is an issue concerning thinning the product so
that
> it can be applied with a foam-style painting brush (this gives the
smoothest
> finish). Out of the can, 373 is too thick to brush on, and all builders
> have reported difficulties in getting good spread ability by thinning with
> water (as specified in your spec sheets). Someone tried thinning with
> denatured alcohol, and it works far superior to water in giving good
spread
> ability, while drying to a very tough coating that appears to have
extremely
> good adhesion and durability. As a result, thinning with alcohol has been
> adopted by most people. The question is: Are we inadvertently introducing
> some chemistry by thinning with alcohol that will reduce the protective
> characteristics of VpCI-373, in spite of the appearance of good
performance?
> We would greatly appreciate the opinion of your chemists on this matter.
On
> learning of the opinion, I will circulate it to the aircraft builders.
> Thanks.
>
>
> Bob Eli
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Cockpit heat box pictures! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Today I undertook the task of building a cockpit heat box. Since I
couldn't find any plans on the net and store bought ones are expensive
(in Canada at least) so I decided to design my own.
I had 1 crappy picture pulled from a Google search to give me a
direction to take but otherwise it was all trial and error. A prototype
was made with thin cardboard.
I've sent pictures to be posted, should be up soon I hope.
Ask away if you have questions
Trevor Page
601HD 90.56% complete, 90% to go... :)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Cockpit heat box pictures! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Can you send me a copy of the pics as well Trevor for the www.ch601.org
website with a write up on the construction? Were you able to use any
ideas from the heat box already on the www.ch601.org website?
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Trevor Page
Subject: Zenith-List: Cockpit heat box pictures!
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Today I undertook the task of building a cockpit heat box. Since I
couldn't find any plans on the net and store bought ones are expensive
(in Canada at least) so I decided to design my own.
I had 1 crappy picture pulled from a Google search to give me a
direction to take but otherwise it was all trial and error. A prototype
was made with thin cardboard.
I've sent pictures to be posted, should be up soon I hope.
Ask away if you have questions
Trevor Page
601HD 90.56% complete, 90% to go... :)
==
==
==
==
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
I've been struggling with the HD spar for a while. About a week ago, after much
vacillation, I
went ahead and set most solid rivets on the centre spar.
I used the method described in the construction manual: rivet head on a steel plate,
steel rod
held against the rivet, hit the rod with sledge hammer. Worked nicely on test parts.
Some three or four were bad, so I removed them and ordered AD6s from A.S.S. to
replace them.
(Almost impossible to avoid enlarging the whole when removing the bad rivet).
The order arrived today, so I went back to the spar and started doing some additional
checks.
To my frustration, a number of the rivets don't look that great. I think I counted
18 that I can
insert a thin piece of paper between the rivets' (pre-formed) head and the spar.
Not all around,
but on one side.
Has anyone faced this situation, and if so, how did you fix it?
I'm also trying to figure how this could have happened. I can only imagine that
the first blow was
too far from the vertical?
Any comments are welcome.
Carlos
(Considering dumping the whole thing)
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Electrical Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
List,
I've been reading Bob Nuckolls book, and looking at various sites, and
I'm still not finding a few answers to these questions:
1. When grounding my leading edge tanks to the airframe, do I drill a
hole in the ground tab, and bolt a ring terminal on?...or rivet?
2. Assuming a bolt, what kind of bolt? any bolt? an 'AN' bolt? brass?
does it matter? Washer required?
3. Have any of you found a good source for the good AMP crimp terminals
with the 'copper sleeve' inside (as apposed to the cheap crappy ones
found all over the place for next to nothing). Is there a good national
chain store that sells the 'good' terminals where I don't have to order
by mail and wait a week?
I also decided to wire seperate returns for most wing items
(lights/strobe/fuel sender) to minimize and grounding issues...
Any thoughts appreciated.
..lance
601XL, tail done, right wing almost done..
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Karl <kjspranger@xtra.co.nz>
Carlos,
>just a hint when removing bad rivets, dont try to drill right thru the rivet,
if you do, you will most certainly oval the hole. The suggested method from AC
43 is to drill just the rivit head (with a drill the same size as the rivet
shank), then tap the head away with a soft punch or chisel(being carefull not
to damage the parent metal) then place a hollow drift on the tail side of the
rivet and use a punch (slightly smaller in diameter than the rivet shank) to punch
it out of the hole into the hollow drift.
>
>
I hope this makes sense. It sounds time consuming but it is alot easier
than you would think.
Karl.
>Some three or four were bad, so I removed them and ordered AD6s from A.S.S. to
replace them.
>(Almost impossible to avoid enlarging the whole when removing the bad rivet).
>The order arrived today, so I went back to the spar and started doing some additional
checks.
>
>
>
>
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