Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:37 AM - Re: setback (Peter Mather)
2. 04:26 AM - Re: setback (jnbolding1)
3. 05:00 AM - Re: setback (Michel Therrien)
4. 05:15 AM - Re: Thinning Cortec 373 (Robert Eli)
5. 05:56 AM - Rib Template Patterns (Cdngoose)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Electrical Questions (Larry McFarland)
7. 07:04 AM - Setback (epilog) (Carlos Sa)
8. 08:42 AM - 601 Kit Wanted (Joe Scheibinger)
9. 09:27 AM - Re: 601 Kit Wanted (etn industries ltd.)
10. 09:37 AM - Re: Setback (Cdngoose)
11. 10:59 AM - [ Trevor Page ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
12. 11:15 AM - Re: Setback (Carlos Sa)
13. 11:38 AM - re setbacks (roy vickski)
14. 12:28 PM - Re: Electrical Questions (Al Young)
15. 05:00 PM - Re: Electrical Questions (Dave Austin)
16. 09:59 PM - eggenfellner subaru (Rmtnview@aol.com)
17. 11:30 PM - Regarding crimped electrical connections (howado)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Mather" <peter@mather.com>
Carlos
It sounds like the rivets are work hardening before completely set. Normally
this means you need to turn up the pressure to hit them harder and get them
fully set more quickly. However, why not ask on one of the RV lists - those
boys love rivets :-)
Best Regards
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Sa" <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: setback
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
>
> I've been struggling with the HD spar for a while. About a week ago, after
much vacillation, I
> went ahead and set most solid rivets on the centre spar.
> I used the method described in the construction manual: rivet head on a
steel plate, steel rod
> held against the rivet, hit the rod with sledge hammer. Worked nicely on
test parts.
>
> Some three or four were bad, so I removed them and ordered AD6s from
A.S.S. to replace them.
> (Almost impossible to avoid enlarging the whole when removing the bad
rivet).
> The order arrived today, so I went back to the spar and started doing some
additional checks.
>
> To my frustration, a number of the rivets don't look that great. I think I
counted 18 that I can
> insert a thin piece of paper between the rivets' (pre-formed) head and the
spar. Not all around,
> but on one side.
>
> Has anyone faced this situation, and if so, how did you fix it?
>
> I'm also trying to figure how this could have happened. I can only imagine
that the first blow was
> too far from the vertical?
>
> Any comments are welcome.
>
>
> Carlos
> (Considering dumping the whole thing)
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "jnbolding1" <jnbolding1@mail.ev1.net>
>> To my frustration, a number of the rivets don't look that great. I think I
>counted 18 that I can
>> insert a thin piece of paper between the rivets' (pre-formed) head and the
>spar. Not all around,
>> but on one side.
>>
>> Has anyone faced this situation, and if so, how did you fix it?
>>
>> I'm also trying to figure how this could have happened. I can only imagine
>that the first blow was
>> too far from the vertical?
Carlos, Built an RV3 about a hundred years ago so have set a few rivets and might
be able to help. If the head is moving away from the spar one of two things
is happening, either it isn't being held firmly in contact during the first
two or three strokes or more likely the hammer is too big (or the backup is too
small). Get a local RV builder to help. Most are willing to help even though
you are not a "chosen one". Don't give up it's worth it. John Bolding
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
When I built my spars, I had them rivetted by a guy
used to drive rivets with a air hammer. I then
inspected the spars with another friend (who was a RAA
inspector at the time). He identified more than 20
"bad rivets".
I removed them all and brought someone else (who
teaches aircraft construction technique) home to drive
the new rivets. I did not enlarge any hole. Before
drilling the rivet out, you need to use a punch (I
used an automatic punch) and punch the little dimple
in the rivet head. That assures that the drill bit
will be centered. Second thing, you dont drill
through the spar; just the rivet head. Practice a
little bit and you'll get the feel of just how much
drilling is required.
Michel
--- Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa
> To my frustration, a number of the rivets don't look
> that great. I think I counted 18 that I can
> insert a thin piece of paper between the rivets'
> (pre-formed) head and the spar. Not all around,
> but on one side.
>
> Has anyone faced this situation, and if so, how did
> you fix it?
>
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Thinning Cortec 373 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Eli" <robert.eli@adelphia.net>
Robert S., you are right. The spec sheet says to thin with water. My only
guess is that maybe the water source is a factor. Unless one uses distilled
water, it may be that minerals dissolved in tap water have caused problems
in some reported cases. To be honest, I haven't tried an experiment
comparing both methods (alcohol or distilled water). But I plan to do a
practical test this week end with both methods to see which I like. With
regard to Cortec's 373 thinner product (S-25, in 5 gallon cans), I suspect
that it is an alcohol based product (probably based on methanol, since Brian
once mentioned it being used as a cleaner-thinner in their lab).
Bob Eli
N701K (still working on the tail feathers)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Schoenberger
Subject: Zenith-List: Thinning Cortec 373
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
<hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Robert Eli wrote
"As I promised Jon Croke at the Zenith/Oshkosh dinner, I contacted Brian L.
Wuertz at Cortec with regard to using denatured alcohol to thin Cortec
VpCI-373.. . . "
I may be wrong, but I thought the instruction sheet I got with the product
said 373 could be thinned with water. That's what I've been doing, and it
works beautifully. I think I added about 15%. The brush or sponge cleans
up quickly and easily. If this is so, why use alcohol? Robert
Schoenberger 701 - 40%
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Rib Template Patterns |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Thanks to Herb, the Rib Template Patterns are now available to all of
you on www.ch601.org you have three formats to choose from either .pdf
.dwg or .dxf. This is a great help to plans builders.
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Lance,
I think you could bolt or rivet the ring type crimp terminal to the tab on
the tank and same at the other end
of the cable so long as it is removable and the contact is good. I put a
silicone blob over the grounding attach hardware to eliminate corrosion at
these points.
Also, fastening electricals are best bought from the aircraft supplier or
the AeroElectric Connection than the local electronics supply store. The
quick disconnect hardware is different in that the extra crimp for the
insulation is important in a plane.
Wicks or Aircraft Spruce are 2-3 day turnaround time and it's worth it.
Larry
Do not archive
> 1. When grounding my leading edge tanks to the airframe, do I drill a
> hole in the ground tab, and bolt a ring terminal on?...or rivet?
>
> 2. Assuming a bolt, what kind of bolt? any bolt? an 'AN' bolt? brass?
> does it matter? Washer required?
>
> 3. Have any of you found a good source for the good AMP crimp terminals
> with the 'copper sleeve' inside (as apposed to the cheap crappy ones
> found all over the place for next to nothing). Is there a good national
> chain store that sells the 'good' terminals where I don't have to order
> by mail and wait a week?
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
> ..lance
> 601XL, tail done, right wing almost done..
> http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Setback (epilog) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Well, there *is* hope!
Thanks to all that replied - I see other have walked the same road before and stumbled
on the same
stones...
Mark, I did drill all the spar on a drill press, so everything is square (homebuilt
square, not
space shuttle square).
I saw the rivet setter pictures on the CH601 site. Did you make or buy the rivet
cup? If you
bought it, what are the specs/part number, and where?
In my case, I made "dimple" on a steel bar with my Dremel tool.
When I put the rivets in place for setting, I kept them in place with masking tape,
which also
helps preventing scratches.
From the notes I read, I think the problem was caused by a light backup and/or
the fact that the
spar was free to move. Chris Boultinghouse used bags of sand (or something) to
stabilize the spar
during the process, and I had forgotten about that.
Once again, thanks to all that provide input (and moral support).
Carlos
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger" <joe@kfiz.com>
Friends,
Does anyone have a 601 kit or project they would like to sell? Call
800-416-8360 weekdays after 11 AM Central, or 920-237-1450 evenings.
Joe
joe@kfiz.com
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 601 Kit Wanted |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "etn industries ltd." <sudhir19_us@yahoo.com>
i have completed rudder here in shanghai ,, interested mail me..
Joe Scheibinger <joe@kfiz.com> wrote:--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Joe Scheibinger"
Friends,
Does anyone have a 601 kit or project they would like to sell? Call
800-416-8360 weekdays after 11 AM Central, or 920-237-1450 evenings.
Joe
joe@kfiz.com
regards,
Etn INDUSTRIES LTD.
2209,howard johnson,
no.500 ,xinjiang road,shanghai
13512171905
021-63801497
---------------------------------
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Hi Carlos, we tried to make our own but none of our idea's allowed for
proper pressure on the rivet head and the ones we made were not as good
as the ones we could buy. So we drilled a hole in the bottom plate to
accept the shanks of the squeezer set dies and can change easily from
the A5 to the 3/16 head. Here are some part #'s
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=480/index.htm
l part # 3456-2
Aircraft Spruce is
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/rivset4sqzr.php part #
P/N 26-5
Also if you go to this picture http://www.ch601.org/webmaster/david.htm
and this one http://www.ch601.org/webmaster/mark.htm you will see how
we have setup the riveter. We have more pictures if you need them. One
thing I would suggest is that when you are ready to do your solid
riveting again have a helper hold the spar down so that the rivet won't
jump out of the cup on impact, we both did David's spar together and
only had to drill out 1 rivet in the two spars, I did mine alone and
ended drilling out 12 rivets, but a few of them were due to being too
fussy! So I'm told.
You're welcome for any help we can give, remember were all in this
together and were pull-in for ya!!
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
Thanks to all that replied - I see other have walked the same road
before and stumbled on the same
stones...
I saw the rivet setter pictures on the CH601 site. Did you make or buy
the rivet cup? If you
bought it, what are the specs/part number, and where?
When I put the rivets in place for setting, I kept them in place with
masking tape, which also
helps preventing scratches.
From the notes I read, I think the problem was caused by a light backup
and/or the fact that the
spar was free to move. Chris Boultinghouse used bags of sand (or
something) to stabilize the spar
during the process, and I had forgotten about that.
Once again, thanks to all that provide input (and moral support).
Carlos
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | [ Trevor Page ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
Subject: Simple cockpit heat box
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/webmaster@upac.ca.08.14.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yahoo.com>
Hi, Mark
Thanks for all the pointers, all good stuff.
I tried to remove a rivet using your method.
I removed the head (fairly easy, I had done that before), but couldn't remove the
stem with
pliers.
I tried hammering the stem with a rod, but it won't come out.
Closer inspection of some holes that weren't riveted yet (L angles and the cap
doubler) revealed
that the parts shifted slightly (vertically). So now the hole contains a small
step, and the rivet
stem is not going to come out, no mater how persuasive the sledge hammer. So,it
seems I would have
to go to AD6 in a number of places.
The more I think about it, the more I lean towards trashing the spar. There are
a few *very* minor
other things that would be corrected also: rivet spacing, rivets too close to the
spar cap
doublers, etc.
I have this "sloppy" word dancing in my mind right now, and I don't like it...
My day time job is going to overflow into the night for the next couple of weeks,
so I'll use the
pause to consider (1) fixing the spar (don't think it is likely), (2) make another
spar, using
this one as a template for the holes or (3) scrap all the wing parts made thus
far and go for the
XL!
"Let me ponder, Pinky"
Regards - and thanks once again
[If you come to Montreal, I'll be sure to buy you coffee ;o) ]
Carlos
--- Cdngoose <601xl@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
>
> Hi Carlos, we tried to make our own but none of our idea's allowed for
> proper pressure on the rivet head and the ones we made were not as good
> as the ones we could buy. So we drilled a hole in the bottom plate to
> accept the shanks of the squeezer set dies and can change easily from
> the A5 to the 3/16 head. Here are some part #'s
> http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=480/index.htm
> l part # 3456-2
> Aircraft Spruce is
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/rivset4sqzr.php part #
> P/N 26-5
> Also if you go to this picture http://www.ch601.org/webmaster/david.htm
> and this one http://www.ch601.org/webmaster/mark.htm you will see how
> we have setup the riveter. We have more pictures if you need them. One
> thing I would suggest is that when you are ready to do your solid
> riveting again have a helper hold the spar down so that the rivet won't
> jump out of the cup on impact, we both did David's spar together and
> only had to drill out 1 rivet in the two spars, I did mine alone and
> ended drilling out 12 rivets, but a few of them were due to being too
> fussy! So I'm told.
>
> You're welcome for any help we can give, remember were all in this
> together and were pull-in for ya!!
>
> Mark Townsend
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> Zenith-List message posted by: roy vickski <rvickski@yahoo.com>
Carlos,
Try restriking the rivet. If you cannot close the gap
or don't want to chance it, The guide line limits are
minimum 50% head area bearing on sheet. Maximum .005
inch gap at edge of head and .002 inch feeler shall
not touch the shank.
Some highly useful published resources for the
scratchbuilder are The FAA AC 43.13-1B,2A and Light
Airplane Construction for amateur builders by L.
Pazmany. Both are inexpensive and contain a wealth of
information and IMHO priceless.
I drove two - three hundred for practice and ended up
with a bead blasting cabnet. My point being I tryed to
make all my mistakes on something no-one would want to
fly.
Good luck and don't give up, it's all uphill from
here.
Roy,701 plans
do not archive
_______________________________
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Al Young" <armyret@one-eleven.net>
Lance- I would not rivet your connector. My inspector wiggled mine for
less than 10 seconds and had it loose. He suggested using a nut/bolt/lock
washer.(stainless).
Do Not Archive.
Al Young, 601XL
On the canopy.
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Electrical Questions |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
My best advice is do not rivet. Not accepted in Canada.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | eggenfellner subaru |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rmtnview@aol.com
I'm looking at the Eggenfellner subaru engine for the 801. Is anyone out
there using this engine? Thanks, rog
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Regarding crimped electrical connections |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: howado <howado@cwia.com>
While waiting for my next CH701 kit to arrive, I have been drawing the
master wiring diagram and designing the panel instrumentation,
(neither of which are part of the CH701 kit).
I read that some members are concerned about crimp terminals. This is
probably not news to those of you who have been involved with MIL
electronics and flight systems, but homebuilders who do not have that
experience need to know a few things about these terminals.
The AMP Inc. designed the crimp terminal to replace soldered terminals
back in the late fifties. They went to great length to prove that a
proper terminal crimp is actually a cold weld, and that the secondary
crimp that is placed at the back over the wire primary insulation is
needed to provide strain relief. Tools were developed to obtain a
proper crimp, and in aircraft companies the tools were calibrated
periodically. The tools contain a die set that guarantees the crimp
parameters are met; they are designed to make a proper crimp
regardless of how hard you squeeze the handles. These tools appear on
the surplus market from time to time, and are usually useable, albeit
the die set may need replacing. In addition to AMP terminals and
tools, the Thomas& Betts terminals and tools are available.
What's the point? You can not get proper crimps with electricians
masher pliers or pliers that come with terminal kits sold in hardware
chains. The terminals must have a continuous weld and a copper sleeve
if they are to make reliable crimped connections.
Hope this info is useful.
Howard Carter
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|