Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:31 AM - HDS/HD wing swap for sale (601corvair)
2. 06:19 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: Alcohol Thinning of Cortec (John M. Goodings)
3. 07:06 AM - Re: Notes from Rotax 912 and 912S basic Engin Maintenance at OSH (LONG) (Robert Schoenberger)
4. 08:15 AM - Re: Alcohol Thinning of Cortec ()
5. 09:04 AM - Re: setback (Traveling Man)
6. 09:37 AM - Re: Re: setback (Scott Laughlin)
7. 09:59 AM - Re: Regarding crimped electrical connections (nhulin)
8. 12:28 PM - Rotax blahs (Leo J. Corbalis)
9. 12:33 PM - Crimp or solder? thats the question (Brett Hanley)
10. 12:36 PM - Re: Alcohol Thinning of Cortec (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
11. 03:58 PM - Re: HDS/HD wing swap for sale (Greg Ferris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | HDS/HD wing swap for sale |
0.6 FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS From": starts.with.nums@matronics.com
--> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair <airvair601@yahoo.com>
I would like to trade set of never flown HDS wings for a set of HD. Ive come to
he conclusion the quicker 601 exceeds the design limits of this pilot. If you
put vortex generators on the wings you could have one of the sleekest high
performance experimental light sport aircraft around. The wings are polished
aluminum with primer on all the internal riveted surfaces. They were built with
the Heinz aileron attachments, baggage compartments, dual leading edge tanks
( 2 x 10 gal) electric aileron trim, landing lights and strobe / Nav lights
all from zenith. They tanks have a capacitance fuel system from Skysport and
were fully wrapped with Buna cork. $6489.00 has been spent on the wings.
(Photos available off list.). If you have a set of comparable HD wings built,
partially built, or still in the box, lets talk and work on the details.
phill
HDS/HD wing swap for sale
---------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: Alcohol Thinning of Cortec |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings" <goodings@yorku.ca>
There have been many messages posted recently about thinning Cortec with
"alcohol". Many readers will be familiar with what I have to say, but a
few may not. There are a very large number of different alcohols; an
alcohol is just a hydrocarbon with an hydroxyl OH group. Thus, methanol
(CH3OH, often sold as methyl hydrate); ethanol (CH3CH2OH, the kind in
booze - someone mentioned vodka); propanol (CH3CH2CH2OH - the kind in
window washer antifreeze is the isopropyl form, CH3CHOHCH3, an isomer of
the same propanol); etc. - butanol, pentanol, hexanol, and so on, just
adding another CH2 group each time. The smaller the alcohol, the quicker
it is to evaporate, and the better it mixes with water. The point I am
trying to make is that Cortec will behave differently when diluted with
methanol than when diluted with, say, isopropyl alcohol. "Denatured"
alcohol is just ethanol (the drinking kind) to which a small amount of a
poison has been added to make you sick if you try to drink it. One can't
just talk about diluting with "alcohol". You may be trying to compare
apples with oranges. (Shades of 41 years as a professor of chemistry;
please forgive me!!!)
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with Rotax 912S, Toronto/Waterloo.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Notes from Rotax 912 and 912S basic Engin Maintenance |
at OSH (LONG)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Thanks Roy for some very comprehensive and very valuable information.
Robert Schoenberger 701 40% do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <royt.or@netzero.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Notes from Rotax 912 and 912S basic Engin Maintenance
at OSH (LONG)
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.net"
<royt.or@netzero.net>
>
>
> I attended the 7/28/04 8:30am "Rotax 912 and 912S Basic Engine
> Maintenance" forum. Here are the notes I took from the session.
>
> Eric Tucker, works for Kodiak Research, the Rotax Importer for the US.
> http://www.kodiakbs.com/. They sell engines to Lockwood Aviation Supply,
California Power Systems etc. Eric was shown as the presenter in the
program, but in fact he was backup for Phil Lockwood.
>
> Phil Lockwood did most of the presentation. He is the owner/manager of
> Lockwood Aviation Supply.
>
> The presentation applied to all Rotax four stroke engines. 912, 912S,
> 914, certified and non certified versions. I'll use 91x to indicate all
> these engines in the following notes.
>
> Through out the presentation, both Phil and Eric stressed that the 91x
> family of engines, once running, will get you to your destination. They
> may self destruct in the process. Loss of all the coolant will result in
overheating; engine would keep running, but will likely warp the heads. They
implied the engines would run without oil for a long time - again, the
engine may not restart after this abuse. I believe there were other examples
that I did not write down.
>
> Oil discussion:
> - Recommend maximum 50 hour oil change. This is more frequent than the
> manual states for some conditions.
> - Pre-oil the new oil filter when doing an oil change. (That is fill the
filter with new oil before installing it on the engine. Some discussion
about mess followed, and Eric said to at least fill the new filter half way
with oil, then it could be installed without pouring the oil out.)
> - When installing the filter, max three quarter turn after rubber gasket
makes contact with the engine case. DO NOT turn filter until the filter
touches the case.
> - Oil formulations have been changing during the last several years. The
newer oils foam more. This can cause problems in the 91x family.
> - The oil dipstick change was because of the foaming.
> - Recommend keeping the oil tank near the top of the range.
> - Proper way to check oil is to rotate the prop in the normal direction
> until the oil tank gurgles. Then check the level in the tank.
> - DO NOT rotate the prop backwards. This can pull oil out of the engine. A
few degrees of backward rotation is not a problem. A full rotation of the
prop could be a problem.
> - When changing the oil, just remove the oil tank drain plug to empty
> the oil tank and change the oil filter. DO NOT try to get ALL the oil
> out. Some customers who have had oil related problems have rotated the
> prop backwards to pump the oil out of the engine during their oil
> changes.
> - Need to use motorcycle type oil because the 91x family shares the
> crankcase oil with the gearbox oil - like most motorcycles. This oil has
additives to protect the gears.
> - Castrol GPS and Motul have been REMOVED from the recommend list
> because of foaming.
> - Penzoil motorcycle oil is OK to use
> - Any semi synthetic motorcycle oil is OK to use.
> - Honda motorcycle oil will not be listed as OK to use because Honda is
> possible competitor, but the Honda motorcycle oil is OK to use.
> - California Power Systems AV-9 showed some foaming in testing and is
> currently being reformulated.
> - DO NOT use pure synthetic oil when using 100LL fuel. Pure synthetic will
not hold the lead in suspension properly.
>
> Cooling discussion:
> - Recommend CHT operation in 180F to 240F range. Also recommend max of
> 125C which is higher than 240F.
> - It is normal for EGT and CHT to be different on each side.
> - No real value to having EGT.
> - IF the center of the CHT sensors supplied with the engine are gone,
> then the engine has been TOO HOT. The center of the sensor has melted.
> - There is a new higher pressure radiator cap available. Eric did not
> seem to enthusiastic about it. Typically raises the temperature before
> releasing pressure about 10C.
> - Use phosphate free coolant.
> - Use silicate free coolant.
> - Dexcool coolant works well.
> - Don't mix green and orange coolant. Flush system if changing.
> - Recommended minimum of 50% coolant (with remainder being distilled
> water).
> - If having trouble with coolant/distilled water boiling, may need to
> move to highest recommend concentration of coolant as recommended by
> coolant manufacture.
> - If still having trouble with coolant/distilled water boiling, using
Evans coolant is OK. Evans coolant does not use water and runs without a
pressurized cap.
>
> Fuel:
> - If flying over 12,000ft, recommended using avgas to avoid vapor locking.
>
> Carburetors:
> - Keep the carbs synchronized. Check every 100 hours. Check at idle and
> just off idle.
> - Recommend 1800 rpm as minimum idle speed to maximize gearbox life.
> - Recommend overhauling the carbs every 600 hours.
> - Choke (enricher) only works with the throttle fully closed.
> - Recommended running 2200-2400 RPM just after start until engine will
> idle smoothly below this speed.
>
> Gearbox discussion:
> - Recommend 912S engines be upgraded to the slipper clutch. There is
> increased possibility of kickback with the slipper clutch. Therefore,
> this also requires the upgraded starter at the same time. There is a
> reduced cost upgrade program available.
> - Recommended having gear box serviced every 300 hours of operation for
> 912S without the slipper clutch (over run clutch).
> - There was a recommendation to check the gearbox play every 100 (?) hours
of operation. The discussion followed what is in the manual. This is for
engines which do not have the slipper clutch. Sorry, I'm not sure of the
frequency that was recommended.
> - Would not try to hand prop a Rotax 912S. Much higher compression than
> the 912 or the 914.
>
> There was a discussion about the service bulletins. Basically, there are
bulletins because the factory continues to develop the engines. The
> development is the result of customer/user feedback. Service bulletins
> are only required for certified versions of the engines in certified
> planes. The service bulletins are a good idea for the non certified
> engines.
>
> I hope some of you find this posting useful.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy
>
> N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
> 270hrs, 338 landings
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Alcohol Thinning of Cortec |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <max.johansson@nokia.com>
Thank you John for sorting out the booze.
The same day as the WTC attack 65 persons died
in a small town in Estonia after drinking some
alcohol that was something else than ethanol.
It did not even make the news...
During my tests I always used the various products
directly from the bottle and mixed them into
Cortec 373 only enough to be able to roll the stuff.
For some reason isopropyl alcohol (as used for stain
removal) was disappointing but my anti-freeze ment to
be mixed into wiper-wash was OK. Perhaps some other
alcohol derivate other than isopropyl is involved.
I suggest that everybody does some tests before using
any dilutant, unless some specific named product has
worked for somebody else.
Well, at least vodka is universally obtainable
and the same everywhere, but I never tested it.
regards
Max
RE-----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> ext John M. Goodings
> Sent: 17 August, 2004 16:18
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Alcohol Thinning of Cortec
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John M. Goodings"
> <goodings@yorku.ca>
>
> There have been many messages posted recently about thinning
> Cortec with "alcohol". Many readers will be familiar with
> what I have to say, but a few may not. There are a very large
> number of different alcohols;
><
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" <travliman58@hotmail.com>
Carlos,
I have in the past set quite a few rivets by hand using a hammer and anvil.
The technique that worked best for me was to set the rivet with a
medium/light blow. Then, using a large diameter rod that had been drilled
to just slightly larger than the rivet, place the hollow over the rivet and
lightly tap the sheets so they were tight together against the head, then
set the rivet completely.
Hope this helps, good luck, and let me know how your project goes. I'm
going to be starting my own very soon.
Bob Lindley
CH601-HD, Now I got a rudder!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Carlos and others interested:
Last night I had to drive a few solid rivets for my wing jig spar inserts.
These will not be part of the completed airplane, but the construction is
the same as the wing spar. A while back I purchased an arbor press from
harbor Freight for around $25. I also purchased from Avery tools a rivet
head. Bob Avery at Avery Tools gave me the idea of using the arbor press
even though he lost out on a sale - Bob's a great guy if you have a question
about tools. Anyway I posted a photo of the setup at:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/Arbor.JPG
You can see the rivet head on the bottom plate. A 3/16" hole accepts the
head perfectly. The handle holds the top bar against the "shop" side of the
rivet and a few whacks of a brass hammer sets it nicely. You have to
carefully jig up the spar parts nice and level, so a table could be made to
bring the rivet head up flush. In my application, this worked well and was
cost effective.
Good luck!
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Traveling Man" <travliman58@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: setback
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Traveling Man" <travliman58@hotmail.com>
Carlos,
I have in the past set quite a few rivets by hand using a hammer and anvil.
The technique that worked best for me was to set the rivet with a
medium/light blow. Then, using a large diameter rod that had been drilled
to just slightly larger than the rivet, place the hollow over the rivet and
lightly tap the sheets so they were tight together against the head, then
set the rivet completely.
Hope this helps, good luck, and let me know how your project goes. I'm
going to be starting my own very soon.
Bob Lindley
CH601-HD, Now I got a rudder!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Regarding crimped electrical connections |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
Guys (and gals),
Crimp connectors are entirely different animals from solder connectors and
they have very different physical attributes. In my 15+ years in the
telecommunications industry I have consistently, and absolutely without
exception, been advise by manufacturers of crimp connectors of all types,
that "CRIMP CONNECTORS SHOULD NEVER BE SOLDERED" (their emphasis, not mine
although I absolutely agree).
OK, why? Here is where you can flame me. I won't mind.
There is a ton of research and experience behind crimp connectors. They have
been developed to provide a very reliable connection that fits well with a
variety of manufacturing processes, applications, and cost structures. They
are used by the millions.
Although I am building an experimental aircraft there is no need for me to
build an experimental electrical system (don't read this wrong, I don't have
an avionics master switch - I'm referring to going somewhere where the
manufacturers of the electrical components say not to go.) There are
millions of crimp connectors out there. There are also millions of solder
connectors out there. ....but there aren't a whole lot of soldered crimp
connectors out there. This is where the experimental part comes in. You've
got to ask "what quantifiable data exists to support going against the
recommendations of the manufacturer?" If you can provide some volume of data
to support what you are proposing, then by all means go ahead, that is one
of the reasons why we are building experimental aircraft. If you want to
"try it out" so that others can benefit, that is also a valid reason in the
experimental realm.
A good crimp connection will serve the intended purpose of providing a
reliable electrical connection that is physically robust.
A good solder connection will serve the intended purpose of providing a
reliable electrical connection that is physically robust.
A soldered crimp connector may have unintended consequences. I don't know
since I don't solder my crimp connectors, and I don't crimp my solder
connectors. Another question: "What benefit do I get from soldering a crimp
connector that isn't available to me from just crimping?"
This whole argument is based on "good" crimp connections and "good" solder
connections. If you can solder, solder, if you can't then get a supply of
high quality crimp connectors and a good crimp tool - and practice. If your
crimp connectors are pulling apart then you've mismatched the crimp and the
tool, or the crimp and the wire gauge, or all three. What I wouldn't like to
see is anyone trying to fix up a poor crimp by filling the gaps with solder.
That would be a very poor practice since you've missed out on the physical
strength aspects of the connector design even though you may have a
functioning electrical connection.
From my personal experience with a very wide variety of crimp connectors
from DC through to microwave RF, the primary determinant of the quality of
the end result is the quality of the crimp tool. In the long run the money
spent on a good quality crimp tool will pay itself back in peace of mind and
the obvious reliability of your aircraft's electrical system. If you match
the connector to the tool to the wire, then you won't have any problems and
there will be no need to solder anything.
OK, I've preached enough. By all means, add to the base of knowledge by
experimenting. That's what were all about.
..neil
601XL/Corvair
Fuselage and stuff
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
A Kitfox builder asked for info on my problem. Since many people have little experience
with things electric I gave him more advice than usual.
My specific symptoms were a seeming loss of guts. This started around
400 hours.Compression checks both types said the mechanical parts were OK. Occasional
shakes, sort of intermittent, slower climb and cruise, rough running
during approach to landing. Sometimes the "mag" checks were worse than others
but not really bad. A remark by a mechanic that had worked on Rotaxes set me on
the right track. He said that they had a lot of trouble with the very hard stranded
wire that Rotax used, breaking strands and getting intermittent. The result
is marginal electrical power to the ignition module giving weak or missing
sparks
You sound like your electrical knowledge ends at flipping the wall switch
up to get lights. So forgive me if I'm too basic. First get a cheap DIGITAL
Volt/ohmmeter. They are much harder to break. Get at least 2 short test leads
with small alligator clips on the ends. Radio Shack is a good source. Test
each one by clipping to the red and black leads in the lowest ohm setting. should
read zero or less than 1 ohm. Not too gently pull on the wires to the clips.
If any are intermittent, solder them or throw them away. The meter comes with
test probes that have dull points which are OK for some tests but when you
run out hands, use a clip lead for connecting the probe to what you want to test
and use your hands for jiggling the connector or wire while watching the meter.
If the readings jump around you have located the part with broken strands
or a bad connection.
I had a very intermittent partial failure in the red wire that comes out
of the alternator where it enters the 1 pin connector that delivers power to
the ignition module. I disconnected the lead, jumpered the black probe to the
engine. Test this by getting zero ohms when you touch the red probe to another
part of the engine. Shove the red probe between the connector and the plastic
cover on it. Now hole the connector and wiggle the red wire. The meter should
read 4 ohms(this is the resistance of the coil in the alternator or magneto
generator in Rotax speak) (I think, maybe 40 ohms) steadily as you gently move
the wire. If the readings jump around, and a gentle pull causes them to jump
way up or show open, you've found the problem.
Another trick is to get a straight pin hook it to the meter with a jumper wire
and slide it under the plastic cover to make contact with the point being tested.
You can push the pin thru the insulation on a wire to check for voltage or
continuity ( this may make a high resistance contact, OK for voltage checks
but not reliable for resistance checks as it adds false resistanc to the reading.
Now for the fun part, fixing it. Buy AMP brand crimper and parts if
possible. Also get a wire stripper with graduated notches for each wire size.
You will probably have to go to an electronics store other than RS. get the
blue connectors (color wire size) Ask the salesman (sexist) to teach you how
to crimp, using your parts. For wire, I had a high grade test lead. They have
fairly tough insulation and 2 or 3 times the number of strands of wire than the
Tefzel stuff from spruce. These finer strands will flex much more before breaking.
Pomona is a good brand to use. Yes the cost 3 to 5 bucks but do it right.
Test your crimping skill by pulling firmly about 30 pounds to test and get
it right before you leave the store.
Cut off the bad connector, use an inline splice to connect the red
wire to the test lead, cut it about 3 inches long and install a new plug. ( I
got some bullet shaped single male blue connectors from an auto store. This is
easier and more reliable than prying the cutoff plug apart and recrimping it)
Now use small tie wraps to tie all the wires together so that jiggling is minimized.
Last but not least do the other one because mine failed 2 months later.
Leo Corbalis
Message 9
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| Subject: | Crimp or solder? thats the question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
The crimp solder discussion is best answered by Bob
Nickels, the guru of light sport plane wiring. Check
out his book at buildersbooks.com. The tittle is "The
Aero Electric Connection". The best specialty text I
have ever seen. A must read for any one that is
planning a electrical system for a light plane.
Brett
Message 10
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| Subject: | Alcohol Thinning of Cortec |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
I'm pretty sure that windshield washer solvent is usually a methanol solution.
--
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Construction complete.
Waiting on the paperwork.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by:
>
>
> For some reason isopropyl alcohol (as used for stain
> removal) was disappointing but my anti-freeze ment to
> be mixed into wiper-wash was OK. Perhaps some other
> alcohol derivate other than isopropyl is involved.
>
I'm pretty sure that windshield washer solvent is usually a methanol solution.
--
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Construction complete.
Waiting on the paperwork.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: <MAX.JOHANSSON@NOKIA.COM>
For some reason isopropyl alcohol (as used for stain
removal) was disappointing but my anti-freeze ment to
be mixed into wiper-wash was OK. Perhaps some other
alcohol derivate other than isopropyl is involved.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: HDS/HD wing swap for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
Phill,
I have a flying HD. I have thought about changing to and HDS for a bit more
speed from time to time. My HD wings are painted white with blue trim on
the wingtips. I also have LE tanks. I used the float type senders that
Zenith sold at the time. I incorporated the landing lights in front of the
landing gear; so no lights in the O/B wings. I also have baggage lockers
and hingeless airlerons. An airleron trim tab is also installed.
To be honest, the idea of not flying again for a while doesn't sound really
appealing, but it wouldn't be a bad winter project. I am guessing new wing
splice plates would be required becuase the holes won't line-up. The reason
I consider this is really that we have a perfect match as far as the
installation.
Where are you located? I am in Iowa. I've attached a pic of my bird for
you to check out.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "601corvair" <airvair601@yahoo.com>
starts.with.nums@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: HDS/HD wing swap for sale
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: 601corvair <airvair601@yahoo.com>
>
>
> I would like to trade set of never flown HDS wings for a set of HD. Ive
come to he conclusion the quicker 601 exceeds the design limits of this
pilot. If you put vortex generators on the wings you could have one of the
sleekest high performance experimental light sport aircraft around. The
wings are polished aluminum with primer on all the internal riveted
surfaces. They were built with the Heinz aileron attachments, baggage
compartments, dual leading edge tanks ( 2 x 10 gal) electric aileron trim,
landing lights and strobe / Nav lights all from zenith. They tanks have a
capacitance fuel system from Skysport and were fully wrapped with Buna cork.
$6489.00 has been spent on the wings. (Photos available off list.). If you
have a set of comparable HD wings built, partially built, or still in the
box, lets talk and work on the details.
>
> phill
>
>
> HDS/HD wing swap for sale
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
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