Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Zodiac XL kit for sale (james dankovich)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: Buttercup (caspainhower@aep.com)
3. 07:02 AM - BRS Installation Help (Scott Laughlin)
4. 07:05 AM - Painting final coat over Zinc-Chromate (Bima, Martin)
5. 08:22 AM - Re: BRS Installation Help (Andrew SanClemente)
6. 08:59 AM - Re: BRS Installation Help (Scott Laughlin)
7. 09:58 AM - Leading edge skin crease (Lance Gingell)
8. 10:20 AM - Re: Leading edge skin crease (Bill Howerton)
9. 10:39 AM - Re: Leading edge skin crease (Matthew P. Cummings)
10. 10:51 AM - Re: Leading edge skin crease (Larry McFarland)
11. 11:02 AM - Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? (Lance Gingell)
12. 12:17 PM - Re: BRS Installation Help (wizard-24@juno.com)
13. 12:17 PM - Re: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? (wizard-24@juno.com)
14. 12:40 PM - Re: Leading edge skin crease (Robert Schoenberger)
15. 12:45 PM - Re: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? (Lance Gingell)
16. 12:52 PM - Re: Leading edge skin crease (Timothy Coalwell)
17. 01:04 PM - Re: Leading edge skin crease (wizard-24@juno.com)
18. 01:45 PM - Re: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? (Scott Laughlin)
19. 01:50 PM - Mikes Lesson to all (Cdngoose)
20. 02:33 PM - Re: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? (wizard-24@juno.com)
21. 02:38 PM - Re: Leading edge skin crease (Lance Gingell)
22. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 08/11/04 (Bob Reinero)
23. 06:42 PM - Plotted Wing Ribs (Cdngoose)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Zodiac XL kit for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: james dankovich <jdankochiro@yahoo.com>
I am selling my 80% complete 601 XL airframe. It is on gear, canopy finished...
a good build. It will save someone a lot of time...$16, 500 firm, near Detroit.
Please contact me offline if interested... young family and 12 hour days
made me decide to sell.... Jim
---------------------------------
Message 2
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|July 24, 2002) at 08/20/2004 08:44:57 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
I overheard someone at Osh that is building a Buttercup using a Corvair
engine. I don't know his name but may be able to find out if anyone is
interested. It has pretty good performance numbers if you are looking to
build a rag and tube plane. I understand a number of later designs have
been based on the Buttercup.
Craig S.
N601XS, lyc 0-235
do not archive
>Yup, me thinks so...
>The slight change in the SP gross weight with corresponding slight change
in
>"clean" stall speed put it right there. I think ( with my limited
>knowledge) it would be a good candidate for a Corvair as well.
>I've seen the Buttercup "kit" mentioned on aircraft spruce's site but no
>pricing etc, and I believe it is a kit of raw materials.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | BRS Installation Help |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Today I need some help again.
I'm at the point where it would make sense to install some of the hardware
for my proposed BRS parachute system. I don't want to purchase the $4,500
kit and have it sitting around for a year or more. I think I can make some
of the parts to the kit I need right now, but I need to know what material
these parts are made from.
I know Mike Sinclair has installed a BRS in his 701 and maybe others have
also in the 601. If you have done this, can you give me an idea of what the
"Bridle Clamp" part is made from (BRS P/N 3205) ? Is it aluminum or 4130?
Also, the Rail material (P/N 8108) is it just 3/4" x 3/4" X 1/8" thick 6061
angle? It looks like it, but I'd like to be sure before I start making
these parts. To get an idea of what I'm talking about look at this photo:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/BRSParts.jpg
One last question - how wide and thick is the Kevlar strap material? I need
to know this to make the Bridle Clamp the correct size. Close-up photos
would be best if possible. Thanks for the help,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Painting final coat over Zinc-Chromate |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bima, Martin" <mbima@hydro.mb.ca>
Question about painting.....=09
Before parts are riveted together, it is inevitable that some Zn-Cr
overspray will hit some metal.
Can I just paint over this? Or should this be removed before the
outside coats of primer/finish are applied?
Thanks
Martin Bima
STOL-Vair
www.autobahn.mb.ca/~bima
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: BRS Installation Help |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <duck@townisp.com>
I have a BRS system installed in my 601 HDS, Ill have to check into
what the clamps are made of but the "Rails" are just thick aluminum
angles. Its actually a pretty straightforward installation, I would
suggest you get the blast-through panel that goes over the
chute/rocket from BRS as well as the "bridles" at a minimum.
I look into what I have for docs and see if I can help you out
-Andy
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:47:08 +0000, Scott Laughlin wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
><cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
>Today I need some help again.
>
>I'm at the point where it would make sense to install some of the
>hardware
>for my proposed BRS parachute system. I don't want to purchase the
>$4,500
>kit and have it sitting around for a year or more. I think I can
>make some
>of the parts to the kit I need right now, but I need to know what
>material
>these parts are made from.
>
>I know Mike Sinclair has installed a BRS in his 701 and maybe others
>have
>also in the 601. If you have done this, can you give me an idea of
>what the
>"Bridle Clamp" part is made from (BRS P/N 3205) ? Is it aluminum or
>4130?
>Also, the Rail material (P/N 8108) is it just 3/4" x 3/4" X 1/8"
>thick 6061
>angle? It looks like it, but I'd like to be sure before I start
>making
>these parts. To get an idea of what I'm talking about look at this
>photo:
>
>http://www.cooknwithgas.com/BRSParts.jpg
>
>One last question - how wide and thick is the Kevlar strap material?
>I need
>to know this to make the Bridle Clamp the correct size. Close-up
>photos
>would be best if possible. Thanks for the help,
>
>Scott Laughlin
>www.cooknwithgas.com
>
>Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
>_-
>
>
>_-
>
>
>_-
>
>
>_-
>
>
I have a BRS system installed in my 601 HDS, Ill have to check into what the clamps
are made of but the Rails are just thick aluminum angles. Its actually a
pretty straightforward installation, I would suggest you get the blast-through
panel that goes over the chute/rocket from BRS as well as the bridles at a minimum.
I look into what I have for docs and see if I can help you out
-Andy
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:47:08 +0000, Scott Laughlin wrote:
--=A0Zenith-List message posted by: Scott Laughlin
cookwithgas@hotmail.com
Today I need some help again.
I'm at the point where it would make sense to install some of the
hardware
for my proposed BRS parachute system.I don't want to purchase the
$4,500
kit and have it sitting around for a year or more. I think I can
make some
of the parts to the kit I need right now, but I need to know what
material
these parts are made from.
I know Mike Sinclair has installed a BRS in his 701 and maybe others
have
also in the 601.If you have done this, can you give me an idea of
what the
Bridle Clamp part is made from (BRS P/N 3205) ?Is it aluminum or
4130?
Also, the Rail material (P/N 8108) is it just 3/4 x 3/4 X 1/8
thick 6061
angle?It looks like it, but I'd like to be sure before I start
making
these parts.To get an idea of what I'm talking about look at this
photo:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/BRSParts.jpg
One last question - how wide and thick is the Kevlar strap material?
I need
to know this to make the Bridle Clamp the correct size.Close-up
photos
would be best if possible.Thanks for the help,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
_-
_-
_-
_-
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: BRS Installation Help |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Thanks Andrew. If you could get the thickness and size of the "rails" that
would be a big help. I'm assuming 1/8" thick X 3/4 x 3/4. I need the same
info. on the Bridle Clamps and the straps if possible.
Thanks again,
scott.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----Original Message Follows----
From: Andrew SanClemente <duck@townisp.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: BRS Installation Help
look into what I have for docs and see if I can help you out
-Andy
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
List,
Are any of you folks good 'dent removers'? I have a crease in my leading
edge skin. Its not much, but it doesn't look very nice. Here's a pic:
http://lancegingell.com/largeplaneimages/DSC04329.JPG.
It appears I can't get creases out of trousers, shirts OR wings!
Any ideas how I can remove this, before I rivet the skin closed?
Cheers,
..lance
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
I'd also like to hear the answer to that question, my tail took some hail
damage, and although it's not too bad, I'm not happy with all the little
dings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Leading edge skin crease
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
> <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
> List,
>
> Are any of you folks good 'dent removers'? I have a crease in my leading
> edge skin. Its not much, but it doesn't look very nice. Here's a pic:
> http://lancegingell.com/largeplaneimages/DSC04329.JPG.
>
> It appears I can't get creases out of trousers, shirts OR wings!
>
> Any ideas how I can remove this, before I rivet the skin closed?
>
> Cheers,
> ..lance
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew P. Cummings" <cummings@stingray.net>
On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 12:17, Bill Howerton wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Howerton" <Bill@Howerton.com>
>
> I'd also like to hear the answer to that question, my tail took some hail
> damage, and although it's not too bad, I'm not happy with all the little
> dings
For little dings how about trying the dry ice method. Get the surface
warm like it's been in the sun for a while, you know, nice and toasty.
Then take a lightweight cloth you can use to hold the ice and place it
on the surface with the dry ice. The dry ice should cause the metal to
shrink removing the slight indentation.
I don't think it's going to help the first poster however, those look
pretty serious.
--
Matthew P. Cummings
1974 Cessna 150L N10667
Moberly, MO (MBY)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
lance,
I had a lesser crease in the transverse. Remove the clecos and get a body
block and small body hammer and work on only the bend-damaged area.
Working very slowly, tap the wrinkle to the block and when it's less than a
1/32 deep,
put a light primer and filller on it. You'll not be able to see it. I also
had a very
small dink the size of a penny on the top of my assembled right wing over a
rib and did
not attempt to straighten it because the metal would have deformed in all
directions. This one I just put a half thimble of filler on a playing card
and wiped it over the dink and it's gone. Just be patient and
not rivet it until you're satisfied with the repaired surface.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS (flying now 9.5 hours)
at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Are any of you folks good 'dent removers'? I have a crease in my leading
> edge skin. Its not much, but it doesn't look very nice. Here's a pic:
> http://lancegingell.com/largeplaneimages/DSC04329.JPG.
>
> It appears I can't get creases out of trousers, shirts OR wings!
>
> Any ideas how I can remove this, before I rivet the skin closed?
>
> Cheers,
> ..lance
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
I'm having the same fuel sender-to-skin clearance issue that a few other
builders have had on my 601XL.
The sender fits under the skin, but it pushes the skin up slightly. I
need to remove the split washer and grind down some more.
I'd noticed some other builders made riveted access panels for the fuel
sender that fit on the leading edge skin. Have these been 'blessed' by
ZAC? I'm thinking about adding these myself 'just in case'!
..lance
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: BRS Installation Help |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> I have a BRS system installed in my 601
Any chance you could post (or email me) a pic of that installation? I
would like to consider installing a BRS chute, but was concerned about
how it looks on the outside of the plane.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
wizard-24@juno.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> I'd noticed some other builders made riveted access panels for the
> fuel sender that fit on the leading edge skin.
I'd also love to see a pic of that if anyone has done it yet.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger" <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Lance . . . if it is not riveted, then you can lay the dent over a hard
surface such as a metal plate with the convex side of the dent up, and then
start working the dent with the bottom side of a large soup spoon with some
oil (3 in 1 is okay) on it. If it is riveted, then I'm not sure how you
would get to it. There are some interesting gadgets on the TV infomercials
which are used to remove car dents, but I have no experience with them. I
assume these must also be sold in auto parts stores. Robert Schoenberger 701
40%
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Leading edge skin crease
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
>
> List,
>
> Are any of you folks good 'dent removers'? I have a crease in my leading
> edge skin. Its not much, but it doesn't look very nice. Here's a pic:
> http://lancegingell.com/largeplaneimages/DSC04329.JPG.
>
> It appears I can't get creases out of trousers, shirts OR wings!
>
> Any ideas how I can remove this, before I rivet the skin closed?
>
> Cheers,
> ..lance
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
There's 2 that I've seen - Scott Lauglin's
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_Access.JPG
And Bill Sewell's
http://socaljunk.com/Dads%20Airplane%20Project/WebPages/033104.htm
I sent an email to ZAC to see if I should, and if its 'OK', but I still
haven't heard back.
..lance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
wizard-24@juno.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
> I'd noticed some other builders made riveted access panels for the
> fuel sender that fit on the leading edge skin.
I'd also love to see a pic of that if anyone has done it yet.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 16
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| Subject: | Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Timothy Coalwell <tcoalwell@mpfc.info>
Lance,
I think your wing is a 601, so my answer may not work, but on my 801 I
put an extra rib there to push it out. A 701 builder told me to use a
3-4" bearing to "roll it out" but I couldn't find a used one. I didn't
try a auto "dent puller" or the suction cup types they sell on tv.
Tim Coalwell
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lance
Gingell
Subject: Zenith-List: Leading edge skin crease
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell"
<lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
List,
Are any of you folks good 'dent removers'? I have a crease in my leading
edge skin. Its not much, but it doesn't look very nice. Here's a pic:
http://lancegingell.com/largeplaneimages/DSC04329.JPG.
It appears I can't get creases out of trousers, shirts OR wings!
Any ideas how I can remove this, before I rivet the skin closed?
Cheers,
..lance
==
==
==
==
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
>There are some interesting gadgets on the TV infomercials
> which are used to remove car dents, but I have no experience with
> them.
Ok, I'll be the first to admit that I suckered in to one of those
infomercials and bought one.
FYI, they do not work as advertised.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Mike:
Mine is round and looks like this with clecos:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_Access.JPG
And the finished product:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_WingFinished.JPG
I did not ask for approval from ZAC and this is not flight-proven.
Happy Building,
Scott.
----Original Message Follows----
From: wizard-24@juno.com
> I'd noticed some other builders made riveted access panels for the
> fuel sender that fit on the leading edge skin.
I'd also love to see a pic of that if anyone has done it yet.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Mikes Lesson to all |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Thanks for the confession Mike and to all others, be warned it is far
better to work on your plane in the late of night or your fate will be
the same as Mike's!!!
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
Ok, I'll be the first to admit that I suckered in to one of those
infomercials and bought one.
FYI, they do not work as advertised.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender access panel - blessed by ZAC? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: wizard-24@juno.com
Thanks to both Lance & Scott. Nice work. Mine with hopefully look as
good, although it'll have to be a domed cover to clear the terminal (even
after I shaved the lug down.
Mike Fortunato
601XL
do not archive
> There's 2 that I've seen - Scott Lauglin's
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/3_7_04_Access.JPG
>
> And Bill Sewell's
> http://socaljunk.com/Dads%20Airplane%20Project/WebPages/033104.htm
Message 21
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| Subject: | Leading edge skin crease |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Robert, and all,
Thanks for the suggestions. I had soup for lunch, so I'll see what I can
do with the spoon later, then the mallet and report back. The crease
isn't too bad, but I won't quite pop out.
Mike: stay in your workshop. Late night TV is bad for you ;-) (I wonder
how many folks are reading this and not confessing!)
Cheers,
..lance
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Schoenberger
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Leading edge skin crease
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Schoenberger"
--> <hrs1@frontiernet.net>
Lance . . . if it is not riveted, then you can lay the dent over a hard
surface such as a metal plate with the convex side of the dent up, and
then start working the dent with the bottom side of a large soup spoon
with some oil (3 in 1 is okay) on it. If it is riveted, then I'm not
sure how you would get to it. There are some interesting gadgets on the
TV infomercials which are used to remove car dents, but I have no
experience with them. I assume these must also be sold in auto parts
stores. Robert Schoenberger 701 40%
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 08/11/04 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Reinero" <reineros@pacbell.net>
Pleas send the Auto CAD version of the form blocks to me also. Thanks in
advance.
Bob Reinero
----- Original Message -----
From: <HeatonHE@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 08/11/04
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: HeatonHE@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/12/2004 1:01:51 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> I am making my form blocks for a 601XL.Did anyone use
> a computer program and printer to plot them,if so can
> you send me the file?
> Nick,
>
> I plotted the wing ribs in AutoCAD. I can send the plots to you as .dwg,
> .dxf or .pdf files. Which do you prefer?
>
> Herb Heaton
> 601XL just started
> Colorado Springs, CO
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Plotted Wing Ribs |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Cdngoose" <601xl@sympatico.ca>
Bob the plotted the wing ribs are available on the www.ch601.org
website. In the builders Resources section. I have all three formats
there downloadable in Zip format.
Mark Townsend
Alma, Ontario
Zodiac 601XL EJ 2.2L
Osprey 2 serial # 751
www.ch601.org
www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Reinero" <reineros@pacbell.net>
Pleas send the Auto CAD version of the form blocks to me also. Thanks
in
advance.
Bob Reinero
----- Original Message -----
From: <HeatonHE@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 08/11/04
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: HeatonHE@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/12/2004 1:01:51 AM Mountain Standard Time,
> zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> I am making my form blocks for a 601XL.Did anyone use
> a computer program and printer to plot them,if so can
> you send me the file?
> Nick,
>
> I plotted the wing ribs in AutoCAD. I can send the plots to you as
.dwg,
> .dxf or .pdf files. Which do you prefer?
>
> Herb Heaton
> 601XL just started
> Colorado Springs, CO
>
>
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