Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:28 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:37 AM - Re: Plastic Step-Stool (Bob Miller)
3. 05:50 AM - Re: some N633Z photos (Scott Laughlin)
4. 06:24 AM - Zodiac 601 HD jigs and forming blocks for sale (Trevor Page)
5. 06:35 AM - Re: Re: Plastic Step-Stool (bryanmmartin@comcast.net)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Scratch building, sharing forms, templates, etc... (Larry McFarland)
7. 07:56 AM - Form Blocks (Glenn Paul)
8. 08:56 AM - Re: Open Hangar day ()
9. 01:09 PM - Tires tubes vs. tubeless? (Grant Corriveau)
10. 02:53 PM - Re: Tires tubes vs. tubeless? (Larry McFarland)
11. 03:42 PM - Re: Form Blocks (Aaron)
12. 04:36 PM - Re: Tires tubes vs. tubeless? (Mike Fothergill)
13. 04:47 PM - Re: Tires tubes vs. tubeless? (Ken Szewc)
14. 04:47 PM - Re: Tires tubes vs. tubeless? (Ken Szewc)
15. 06:01 PM - Wheel pants question (Larry McFarland)
16. 06:13 PM - Swedish Mufflers (Phil Raker)
17. 07:13 PM - Re: Wheel pants question (Mike Fothergill)
18. 11:38 PM - Does anyone have suggestions on the tail position light? (xl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Lister,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
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- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
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- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Plastic Step-Stool |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <drmiller@cvillepsychology.net>
Craig,
I'm also leaving off the step, and believe it would be possible to construct
a simple removable step that rested partially on the ground and braced
against the intersection of fuselage and wing-root. It could be made of
aluminum, and perhaps there could be a universal-joint type hinge at the
joint between the two sections (the section that rested along the wing-root
and the section that extended to the ground that would have a small step
extending from it). The universal joint would allow the top section to
swivel so it could be used for either pilot or passenger. Probably I'll make
a special stowage pocket, accessible externally through a small hatch, that
extends under the baggage shelf.
All I gotta do now is design the step!
Bob
601HD 722Z
----- Original Message -----
From: <caspainhower@aep.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fairing the 601XL Steps
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>
>
> I noticed on the recently completed XL that showed up at Zenith Open
Hanger
> Day (I don't remember the builders name) that it had a fairing over the
> support going down to the step and on the support underneath connecting
the
> steps. I asked about it and he said it came with the kit. I haven't
> checked to see if it was included in my kit. A fairing where the gear
meets
> the fuse may also help cut drag. I am considering not installing the step
> and keeping a small plastic stepstool in the plane for my short legged
> friends. (the question is how they will get to it to use it).
>
> Craig S.
> N601XS, 601XL
>
> >Looking at some parts the other day I realized the steps seem like the
> would
> >be fairly "dragy". What's the opinion of the group to welding on some
> >fairing shaped steel tube to the step and the step strut?
>
> >I've also considered fairing the area below the fuselage where the gear
> >attach. Opinions?
>
>
> This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
> Nuclear Generation Group of American Electric Power are for the sole
> use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message.
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | some N633Z photos |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Joe:
Did you build your airplane in a tent?!? Way to go! It looks great.
Thanks for the large photos. I was able to look at some of the fuselage
photos and it helped me in my construction right now.
Thanks for sharing,
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Subject: Zenith-List: some N633Z photos
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Hello again all,
I've posted a set of photos at: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
There are large (~700k) and small photos (~70k for faster downloading) of:
- N633Z at the EAA tent at the Arlington Airshow!
- the stock muffler
(I did suspend the tailpipes on the second one, it still failed in 10
hours)
- the busted stock muffler
- the straight pipes that I made it home on (after my CO detector saved me)
- the homemade 'swedish' mufflers that I installed last week
(they weigh about 3 pounds a piece and are nice and quiet,
the intercom works better without as much background roar,
and the plane still seems to fly as fast)
- photos of the skin polishing - in progress
- and as a bonus some building location (yes, I'm in one of them)
and a moving photo
Enjoy!
Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
105 hours
P.S. I planned to make a go of flying to the Zenith Open Hanger Day
but I too was grounded by the weather. Maybe next year!
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
Message 4
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| Subject: | Zodiac 601 HD jigs and forming blocks for sale |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Trevor Page <webmaster@upac.ca>
As part of the project I purchased a few months ago (and happily
completing), I inherited some beautifully made jigs and forming blocks
for certain bits and pieces.
All of the jigs/blocks are made from solid oak with a varnish finish
(should be furniture really). These thing are SOLID and HEAVY!
I have the following jigs:
1. Front landing gear
2. Main landing gear
3. Main wheels landing gear box fixture (double sided)
And the following blocks
1. Front ribs an HD wing (double-sided)
2. Back ribs for an HD (double-sided)
The double-sided blocks and jigs are used to make right and left side
centre wing and outboard wing sections.
Not sure what they are worth but the workmanship is stellar on these.
Make and offer or I can happily trade the whole lot for a tinted canopy
(the only thing I need to complete my 601). If you live close to me you
can pick them up however I can ship anywhere but it won't be cheap
because of the weight.
I have pictures of all the items here :
http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album/view_album.php?
set_albumName=album13
Sorry about the long URL but click to page 10 to see then. If the above
link does not work please use
http://pagefamily.homeunix.org/picture_album and click on 601 project
then on fuselage then page 10.
You can email me off-list or call me at 519 448-4816
Thanks
Trevor Page
601HD 94.6% comeplete
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Plastic Step-Stool |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: bryanmmartin@comcast.net
Why not design a retractable step that can be folded or telescoped up into the
fuselage like many fighter jets have? Maybe just take the standard step assembly
and mount it inside the fuselage as someone already has but replace the riser
with one that telescopes up into the frame. The step tread could still stay
outside, if it ended up directly behind the wing trailing edge in the retracted
position, it would have nearly no drag.
--
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Construction complete.
Waiting on the paperwork.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller"
>
> Craig,
> I'm also leaving off the step, and believe it would be possible to construct
> a simple removable step that rested partially on the ground and braced
> against the intersection of fuselage and wing-root.
> Bob
> 601HD 722Z
> ----- Original Message -----
Why not design a retractable step that can be folded or telescoped up into the
fuselage like many fighter jets have? Maybe just take the standard step assembly
and mount it inside the fuselage as someone already has but replace the riser
with one that telescopes up into the frame. The step tread could still stay
outside, if it ended up directly behind the wing trailing edge in the retracted
position, it would have nearly no drag.
--
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
Construction complete.
Waiting on the paperwork.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" <DRMILLER@CVILLEPSYCHOLOGY.NET>
Craig,
I'm also leaving off the step, and believe it would be possible to construct
a simple removable step that rested partially on the ground and braced
against the intersection of fuselage and wing-root.
Bob
601HD 722Z
----- Original Message -----
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Scratch building, sharing forms, templates, etc... |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
You've got the right idea Todd, but you've got to be careful
because the other guys form blocks could cause you more
work than if you made them yourself.
It seemed I made enough of my own mistakes as it was, but
did initially recieve a set of forms that required redoing about 30% and
then had to make a good number of aluminum parts over as well.
Nothing wrong with plans building though. You can definitely get
a better plane out of the process if you're fussy.
Larry McFarland - plans built 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Osborne" <todd@toddtown.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Scratch building, sharing forms, templates, etc...
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
>
> I am sure this has been brought up before, but...
>
> As I am planning to start my (4th) Zodiac XL, I am considering building
> it from plans rather that kit form. I don't know much about metal
> working other than small amounts that I have learned over the years from
> reading, but I do believe I can pull it off.
>
> With that said, I know there are a lot of people out there building
> Zodiac's from plans. Is there any method in place to loan or rent each
> other form blocks, etc. to make the parts? Seems we could all save a lot
> of time and money if those of us that are, or are planning to, building
> from scratch implemented the divide and conquer method, whereas we work
> as a team to create the forms (or even create the parts for each other)
> and then share with others.
>
> Just a pipe dream, or should we be content re-inventing the wheel we
> know already exists in somebody's scrap pile :-)
Message 7
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Glenn Paul <glennpaul@mailblocks.com>
Like Todd, I am in the process of scratch building. Ordering aluminum
from Yarde after Hurricane Frances passes.
I have a similar interest in obtaining form blocks for the HD and/or
HDS.
Thanks
Glenn Paul
Plans 6-3221
----------------------------------------------
Mailblocks - A Better Way to Do Email
http://about.mailblocks.com/info
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Open Hangar day |
Seal-Send-Time: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:51:55 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
My wife and I drove from Kansas City, roughly 2.5 hrs, and observed cars parked
almost all the way from Zenith to the highway. Weather was crummy, and only about
4 planes had "come home". The demos on wing rib and firewall shaping were
very good. We were expecting William Wynne's Corvair powered 601XL, but
he didn't make it as of about 2:00. Really wanted to check out his installation.
The VCR presentation was good, although I would suggest that next year
they also do a formal Q&A for those who have Q's. It would be a great opportunity
to hear what other builders are doing, and to get some good info from Sebastian
and the guys. I think I signed in about 2/3 down on Page 3, which speaks
pretty well for the enthusiasm level. To borrow from Ahnold, "I'll be back."
Paul Rodriguez
601XL, Corvair
Fuselage 10% (if that)
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Stout<mailto:n282rs@earthlink.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 6:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Open Hangar day
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy Stout" <n282rs@earthlink.net<mailto:n282rs@earthlink.net>>
Did anyone go to the Open Hangar Day? Wasn't it this weekend? Just curious
why we haven't heard any stories yet.
do not archive
Randy Stout
n282rs"at"earthlink.net
www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21<http://www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Tires tubes vs. tubeless? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Has anyone done away with the tubes in the aircraft tires altogether? Seems
like tubeless works fine on cars and would be a lot less hassle...
Any comments/experiences to share?
Thanks
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Tires tubes vs. tubeless? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Grant,
Unless you have gotten away from the split wheel construction, I'd doubt
the tubless tire is going to become a reality. Even then, the tube provides
a
measure of added security in an aircraft wheel/tire construct that I'd not
like
getting rid of. Tubless rims often have a propensity for leakage when tubes
just go on forever.
Larry McFarland - 601HDS with Michelin S-83s and tubes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Corriveau" <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Tires tubes vs. tubeless?
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>
> Has anyone done away with the tubes in the aircraft tires altogether?
Seems
> like tubeless works fine on cars and would be a lot less hassle...
>
> Any comments/experiences to share?
>
> Thanks
>
> --
> Grant Corriveau
> C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>
>
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Aaron" <agustafson@chartermi.net>
>> Ordering aluminum
>> from Yarde after Hurricane Frances passes.
> I have a similar interest in obtaining form blocks for the HD and/or
> HDS.
I have a nearly compleat set of forming blocks which were given to me. I am
done with all but the ailerons. I still nead the wing (HD) blocks as that is
the only thing I have not built. They are available to anyone that wants to
arainge for shipping with me.
On the first topic, I first started to buy metal from a non aircraft
oriented store when I started my project, but then found that I could not
verify that the alloy type was what they claimed. I am not familliar with
Yarde, but I would make shur that what you are getting is actually what you
pay for. It should be inked on the roll continuosly.
Contact me dirrectly if you're interested
Aaron 601 HDTD plans Sub
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Tires tubes vs. tubeless? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi;
I had some trouble with tubeless tires on my 601. I only use tubes now
and have had no problems in 10 years.
Mike
UHS Spinners
Larry McFarland wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Grant,
> Unless you have gotten away from the split wheel construction, I'd doubt
> the tubless tire is going to become a reality. Even then, the tube provides
> a
> measure of added security in an aircraft wheel/tire construct that I'd not
> like
> getting rid of. Tubless rims often have a propensity for leakage when tubes
> just go on forever.
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS with Michelin S-83s and tubes.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Grant Corriveau" <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Tires tubes vs. tubeless?
>
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
>>
>>Has anyone done away with the tubes in the aircraft tires altogether?
>
> Seems
>
>>like tubeless works fine on cars and would be a lot less hassle...
>>
>>Any comments/experiences to share?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>--
>>Grant Corriveau
>>C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Tires tubes vs. tubeless? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc <szewc@direcway.com>
I installed the tubeless tundra tires supplied with my 701SP kit. The
have been installed on my 701 for about 9 months ago and have been
flying the airplane since May (52 hours now). I have not had any major
problem with air leakage from the supplied tires in the tubeless
configuration. I also don't seem to have the out of balance problem that
some people have mentioned. I have had to add a small amount of air to
the tires, but that seems normal to me with any tires.
I am running about 10 psi in the tires, I am not sure if higher
pressures would cause them to leak more or not.
Ken Szewc
N701SZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Corriveau
Subject: Zenith-List: Tires tubes vs. tubeless?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Has anyone done away with the tubes in the aircraft tires altogether?
Seems
like tubeless works fine on cars and would be a lot less hassle...
Any comments/experiences to share?
Thanks
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
==
==
==
==
Message 14
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| Subject: | Tires tubes vs. tubeless? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc <szewc@direcway.com>
I installed the tubeless tundra tires supplied with my 701SP kit. The
have been installed on my 701 for about 9 months ago and have been
flying the airplane since May (52 hours now). I have not had any major
problem with air leakage from the supplied tires in the tubeless
configuration. I also don't seem to have the out of balance problem that
some people have mentioned. I have had to add a small amount of air to
the tires, but that seems normal to me with any tires.
I am running about 10 psi in the tires, I am not sure if higher
pressures would cause them to leak more or not.
Ken Szewc
N701SZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grant
Corriveau
Subject: Zenith-List: Tires tubes vs. tubeless?
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
Has anyone done away with the tubes in the aircraft tires altogether?
Seems
like tubeless works fine on cars and would be a lot less hassle...
Any comments/experiences to share?
Thanks
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
==
==
==
==
Message 15
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| Subject: | Wheel pants question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi guys,
I'm thinking of putting on the wheel pants and wondered
"Do the tires spin any when they have a small degree of tread
on them when they're mostly covered by wheel pants?"
I'm using Michelin S-83 Scooter tires that have a slight tread
on them. And does it matter?
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Message 16
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| Subject: | Swedish Mufflers |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Phil Raker <phadr1@yahoo.com>
Hello, Joe,
Please tell us more about the design and construction of your "Swedish"
mufflers. They look very interesting. What is inside those long, straight
tubes? Thanks, in advance.
Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
>
> Hello again all,
>
> I've posted a set of photos at: http://www.cleanh2o.com/633z/
>
> There are large (~700k) and small photos (~70k for faster downloading) of:
>
> - the homemade 'swedish' mufflers that I installed last week
> (they weigh about 3 pounds a piece and are nice and quiet,
> the intercom works better without as much background roar,
> and the plane still seems to fly as fast)
>
> Joe E
> N633Z @ BFI
> 105 hours
>
__________________________________
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wheel pants question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi Larry;
Yes, they will spin. If they are out of balance, you may notice it, but
otherwise it's not a problem.
Mike
UHS Spinners
C-FRND
Larry McFarland wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
>
> Hi guys,
> I'm thinking of putting on the wheel pants and wondered
> "Do the tires spin any when they have a small degree of tread
> on them when they're mostly covered by wheel pants?"
> I'm using Michelin S-83 Scooter tires that have a slight tread
> on them. And does it matter?
>
> Larry McFarland - 601HDS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Does anyone have suggestions on the tail position light? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: xl <xl@prosody.org>
Hello again,
My tail position light is flaky.
It works all most all of the time but I can't trust it.
But, I'd rather fight with it than replace it with an unknown.
What are others using?? I'm thinking I may try to find a used
position light from an aircraft recycler - any hints on where
to find one?
BTW I had to drill and install a brass screw in both of
my right + left position lights to properly ground the
press fit light sockets. And this is in expensive aviation
lighting.
Thanks, Joe E
N633Z @ BFI
106 hours
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