---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/17/04: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - Re: Carburetor bypass overflowed (Richard McLachlan) 2. 05:51 AM - Re: Carburetor bypass overflowed (Larry McFarland) 3. 06:16 AM - Painting () 4. 07:09 AM - Re: Painting (Jimmy Parker) 5. 07:20 AM - Lift Reserve Indicator (Elwood140@aol.com) 6. 07:21 AM - 701 Digest (KEITH B SHOAPS) 7. 08:04 AM - Re: Sport plane Vs. Sport Pilot (Jim Pellien) 8. 08:07 AM - Re: 701 Digest (88tierra) 9. 08:37 AM - Re: 701 Digest (Larry McFarland) 10. 08:44 AM - Re: Carburetor bypass overflowed (Thilo Kind) 11. 09:00 AM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Gary Gower) 12. 10:12 AM - Re: 701 Digest (Chuck Deiterich) 13. 10:48 AM - Re: Zinc Chromate or Zinc Oxide (Fred Sanford) 14. 11:40 AM - Re: 701 Digest (John Williamson) 15. 12:17 PM - Re: SportPilot, SportAircraft (Bob Miller) 16. 01:38 PM - Re: 701 Digest (baileys) 17. 02:42 PM - Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan (Aircraft Spruce) 18. 04:17 PM - Re: Lift Reserve Indicator (Roger Roy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:37 AM PST US From: "Richard McLachlan" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carburetor bypass overflowed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard McLachlan" There was an incident here in the UK a while back where somebody decided they didn't like the drain venting into the engine near the exhaust manifold. So they extended the tube down below the aircraft. Unfortunately this was a dynamic low pressure area and as soon as the aircraft got up to flying speed the fuel got sucked out of the float chamber and the engine stopped. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Fothergill" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carburetor bypass overflowed > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill > > Hi; > You should fabricate a drain system that will allow spillage to drop > out the bottom of the cowl avoiding the exhaust with its fire hazard. > I made funnel like devices with an inlet into the side to which the > overflow is attached. The bottom of the funnel is extended with 1/4 inch > fuel tubing down to the bottom of the cowl. Remember that this > "overflow" tube must feel the same ambient pressure as exists at the > inlet to the carburetor for the diaphram to work properly. Some > operators have attached the tube to the carb filter so that excess fuel > would be sucked into the engine.(I'm not sure that this will absolutely > prevent some spill onto the exhaust) > My opinion. > Mike > UHS Spinners > > Larry McFarland wrote: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" > > > > Hi Guys, > > This morning with serious intent to fly, I found the left carburetor bypass > > flowing fuel after turning on the fuel valve. Of course, this required the > > carburetor be taken apart to check float bowl, float action and the gage > > 10.5mm distance with arms parallel with the gasket surface. It all came down > > to some crud in the fuel that kept the needle from closing off fuel. Tried to make > > it happen again, but it wouldn't repeat. > > > > I've real concern for this because the overflow could easily start a fire if it weren't > > noticed. It's another thing to check each time, as the Bing manual says this is > > a common occurance. I thought my gascolator screen which is very fine would > > sort stuff like this out. > > > > If you have this problem, don't fly it until you get it stopped, because the manual > > says full throttle might be successful until landing and then at half throttle, the carb would > > flood the system and the engine might stop in the middle of a landing sequence. > > > > I was curious if anyone had had this problem with their Bings and if you had a > > better solution. > > > > > > Larry McFarland - 601HDS doing the reliability thing at 18.5 hours. > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:03 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Carburetor bypass overflowed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Ray, The engine is a Stratus Subaru, but the carburetor is a Bing which is common to several types of engines in use. Larry Do not archive >> It all came down >> to some crud in the fuel that kept the needle from closing off fuel. > > And that would be what kind of engine? > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Best Regards, Ray Montagne > Cupertino, CA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:16 AM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Painting --> Zenith-List message posted by: At Cessna. aircraft are painted after all flight testing is done. Saves having to redo the paint if adjustments are needed. Bob, Wichita > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Painting From: Jimmy Parker --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimmy Parker Thanks Bob for the info, Jim Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:55 AM PST US From: Elwood140@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com Hi, All I am about to install a lift reserve (or AOA) indicator probe on the left wing of my 701 while the wing is still open. I wonder if any other 701 builders have had experience on placing the probe. My thought is to place the probe between the last two ribs inboard of the wing tip and about a foot back of the spar. This would seem to be an area clear of prop wash. I'm wondering about the effect of the slat on airflow over (or under) the wing. The LRI is from InAir Instruments, LLC. Larry Wood N701LW Still Aborning ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:50 AM PST US From: "KEITH B SHOAPS" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Digest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "KEITH B SHOAPS" A short time ago someone noticed that this digest has mostly 601 info and very little 701 help. Is there a better 701 site? kshoaps ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:59 AM PST US From: "Jim Pellien" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Sport plane Vs. Sport Pilot --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Pellien" John, Based upon your response I researched this further and you are right. Light Sport Aircraft can fall into any of 5 categories. The following is from the EAA Sport Pilot site: "An aircraft that meets the definition of a light-sport aircraft may hold an airworthiness certificate in any one of the following categories of FAA certification: - an experimental aircraft, including amateur-built aircraft, for which the owner must construct more than 51-percent of the aircraft. - a Standard category aircraft; that is, a ready-to-fly aircraft that is type-certificated in accordance with FAR Part 43. - a Primary category aircraft; that is, a ready-to-fly aircraft that is type-certificated in accordance with Primary category regulations. - a special light-sport aircraft (S-LSA) or an experimental light-sport aircraft (E-LSA)." So a Sport Pilot can fly any aircraft that fits into the above 5 categories provided that the aircraft's performance falls within the defined performance envelope for light sport aircraft. One principal difference between E-LSA and S-LSA is that S-LSA can be used for commercial flight instruction, whereas E-LSA can only be used for flight instruction of its builder/pilot. Jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Johnny0464@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sport plane Vs. Sport Pilot --> Zenith-List message posted by: Johnny0464@aol.com In a message dated 9/16/2004 7:42:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, jim@pellien.com writes: John, The sport plane certification only applies to an aircraft that has been wholly manufactured within the aircraft manufacturer's factory. No home-building is allowed for a certificated sport plane. Jim WOW...This is the first time I've heard of this. I suppose I should just read the rule myself. This way I will have the correct information. John W. Tarabocchia Project Supervisor / Engineering CFT E-mail: john_tarabocchia@wgresorts.com johnny0464@aol.com Phone: 407-709-7255 Nextel: 158*17047*156 == == == == ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:09 AM PST US From: "88tierra" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Digest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "88tierra" We 601 builders just seem to be more vocal. This is evident in our choice of aircraft. 701 builders tend to be more reclusive, hiding under the shelter of a high wing whereas 601 builders are more open, exposing themselves to the world around riding on top of the wing ; ) Definitely do not archive!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of KEITH B SHOAPS Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Digest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "KEITH B SHOAPS" --> A short time ago someone noticed that this digest has mostly 601 info and very little 701 help. Is there a better 701 site? kshoaps ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:37:52 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Digest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Keith, There's an archive here that you should visit because a lot of the questions you'd ask are probably answered here. The popularity of the 701 isn't lacking, just at the moment, there's a lapse in chatter on the type. Use your search for relevant info and you'll see the 701 is well covered. Larry McFarland - 601HDS plans builder Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH B SHOAPS" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Digest > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "KEITH B SHOAPS" > > A short time ago someone noticed that this digest has mostly 601 info and > very little 701 help. Is there a better 701 site? > > kshoaps ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:04 AM PST US From: "Thilo Kind" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Carburetor bypass overflowed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Thilo Kind" Hi Frank and All, I have installed larger diameter hoses (something like 1/2") runing downwards and outside of the cowling. The smaller hoses coming from the carburetor bypass valve extend approx. 5 mm into the large diameter hoses. The large hoses are open at the top - thus no trouble with the pressure. Thilo Kind -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Carburetor bypass overflowed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" You really have to have a paper element type of filter on the discharge of your pump(s). Never,never on the inlet to your pump(s)...If it plugs you vapour lock and die...well at least your engine will. As I have pumps next to the wing tanks I put the filters at the discharge of each pump...If one plugs you can simply switch to the other. I've changed them once in 5 years and they cost about $2 each...Never had a needle valve problem. Frank 342 hours Stratus with Ram heads 601 HDS -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry McFarland Subject: Zenith-List: Carburetor bypass overflowed --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" --> Hi Guys, This morning with serious intent to fly, I found the left carburetor bypass flowing fuel after turning on the fuel valve. Of course, this required the carburetor be taken apart to check float bowl, float action and the gage 10.5mm distance with arms parallel with the gasket surface. It all came down to some crud in the fuel that kept the needle from closing off fuel. Tried to make it happen again, but it wouldn't repeat. == == == == ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:51 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator --> Zenith-List message posted by: Gary Gower Hello Larry, We installed our LRI probe out of the prop wash but protected (from head strikes) by the strut area. If you look at the plane from the front, looks like is inside the triangle betwen the strut and the jury strut, but is located properly near the leading edge, as the instructions manual says. We havent test it yet, we are waiting for the final paperwork to do the test flights. Saludos Gary Gower 701 912S Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico. --- Elwood140@aol.com wrote: > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com > > Hi, All > I am about to install a lift reserve (or AOA) indicator probe on the > left > wing of my 701 while the wing is still open. I wonder if any other > 701 builders > have had experience on placing the probe. My thought is to place the > probe > between the last two ribs inboard of the wing tip and about a foot > back of the > spar. This would seem to be an area clear of prop wash. I'm > wondering about > the effect of the slat on airflow over (or under) the wing. The LRI > is from > InAir Instruments, LLC. > > Larry Wood > N701LW Still Aborning > > > > > > > > > _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:11 AM PST US From: "Chuck Deiterich" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Digest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Chuck Deiterich" There is some 701 info on my web page. look under airplane www.geocities.com/cffd66 Chuck D. N701TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH B SHOAPS" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Digest ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:28 AM PST US From: Fred Sanford Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zinc Chromate or Zinc Oxide --> Zenith-List message posted by: Fred Sanford For those of you that are still looking for zinc chromate in guarts, West Marine has it. Around $24 per quart. Have had no trouble getting it in Santa Barbara, but apparently not available in the San Francisco area. Don't know how much longer it will be available. They are on line, or your local store can order it. Seems almost as thick as the Randolph was.................. Fred Sanford. 701 putting fuselages together ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:34 AM PST US From: "John Williamson" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 701 Digest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "John Williamson" ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH B SHOAPS" Subject: Zenith-List: 701 Digest > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "KEITH B SHOAPS" > > A short time ago someone noticed that this digest has mostly 601 info and > very little 701 help. Is there a better 701 site? > > kshoaps Maybe a better reason for the lack of 701 chatter is it is easier to build or the 701 requires less modification or the builders are more proficient at airplane building. It does seem that the 601 builders run into more questions than the 701 builders. John Williamson Arlington, TX Kolb Kolbra, Rotax 912ULS, 648 hours http://home.comcast.net/~kolbrapilot Zenith CH701 Project http://home.comcast.net/~stol_airplane http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/stol_airplane do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:25 PM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: SportPilot, SportAircraft --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Is it possible to take an aircraft out of certification, such as when it is not airworthy due to large essential structural parts (i.e., wings) being removed or damaged? If so, could it then be eligible for a new "original" certification when new parts (such as HD wings) were put on it? Bob ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:23 PM PST US From: "baileys" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 701 Digest --> Zenith-List message posted by: "baileys" Well as one 701 builder that is definitely not more proficient, IMHO I think it is because the 601 is a more complex design. I'm not saying the 701 is better just simpler. Bob B. 701 #7-5552 Maybe a better reason for the lack of 701 chatter is it is easier to build or the 701 requires less modification or the builders are more proficient at airplane building. It does seem that the 601 builders run into more questions than the 701 builders. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:20 PM PST US From: Aircraft Spruce Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan da2a@yahoogroups.com, Aircar@yahoogroups.com, canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com, Corby_Starlet@yahoogroups.com, navion_aircraft_mail@yahoogroups.com, piper-cub-builders@yahoogroups.com, quicksilverultralightowners@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com, subaruaircraft@yahoogroups.com, europa-list@matronics.com, kitfox-list@matronics.com, kolb-list@matronics.com --> Zenith-List message posted by: Aircraft Spruce Builders, Thanks for bringing the matter of Fuel Mizer vs. NavMan fuel computers to our attention. We have carried Fuel Mizer for a couple of years and had never heard of NavMan. We asked the manufacturer of NavMan about the difference in the units, and as you can see from the following commentary there is definitely a difference, only the Fuel Mizer is recommended for Aviation use. Fuel Mizer has been thoroughly tested in aviation applications and is certified for CAO-95-45 aircraft in the Australia. Best Regards, Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce ----- Original Message ----- From: SlipStream Industries, Inc. Subject: Questions Regarding Fuel Mizer Dear Jim: I am forwarding an email I received from Ole Jensen, President of Boss Products, the manufacturer of the Fuel Mizer under license from Navman. SlipStream is Boss Product's North American distributor. In his response to the questions posed yesterday, he references certain modifications and approvals received for use of this product in aviation. The exact language found on the cover of the Installation and Instruction manual is as follows: This instrument has been modified to comply with Australian Engineering order HEO-469 and certified for CAO 95-25 type aircraft in Australia. Please let me know if you have any questions, or desire any further information. Kindest regards, Mike Puhl SlipStream International ----- Original Message ----- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: Mizer. Dear Mike: The question raised regarding the Navman fuel flow meter and the Mizer is a common one that has been around for many years and a lot of people have lost money and endangered themselves by purchasing the Navman for use in aviation. Nearly all the Navman units purchased for this application have failed and Navman refuses to replace them under warranty. Several years ago we negotiated with Navman and paid a licensing fee that enabled us to make the appropriate modifications for use in aviation. In addition, the Mizer has been registered with CASA (the equivalent to your FAA) and certified by a qualified aeronautical engineer. Boss Products paid to have the appropriate modifications made for use in civil aviation, and these modifications have been improved upon several times since. As a result, the Mizer enjoys an excellent reliability record and has been certified according to CAO order no.HEO-469 as printed on the cover of the installation manual. Any one doubting the validity of our agreement with Navman is free to contact the Vice President of Navman in New Zealand, Mr. Mark Michell, and he will verify these facts. Boss Products is the only company in the world licensed to modify and distribute this particular product. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous marine dealers still offer the Navman for use in unapproved applications despite the knowledge that the manufacturer strictly prohibits this practice. Greed and ignorance are usually the motivator. I can also tell you that the price differences between the Navman and Fuel Mizer are reasonably close, especially considering the potential danger for misuse in a non-approved aviation application. Further, I spoke with Navman earlier today and was told that no one in the U.S. is offering this unit for anywhere close to US $99.00, and that the suggested retail price is US $299.00, though they offer special MAP pricing from time to time. Hope this helps to clear up this issue. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance in any way. Regards, Ole Jensen President _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:46 PM PST US From: "Roger Roy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 19:17:19 -0400 --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger Roy" Larry, does InAir Instruments have a web site? Thanks DO NOT ARCHIVE RJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Zenith-List: Lift Reserve Indicator > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Elwood140@aol.com > > Hi, All > I am about to install a lift reserve (or AOA) indicator probe on the left > wing of my 701 while the wing is still open. I wonder if any other 701 > builders > have had experience on placing the probe. My thought is to place the > probe > between the last two ribs inboard of the wing tip and about a foot back of > the > spar. This would seem to be an area clear of prop wash. I'm wondering > about > the effect of the slat on airflow over (or under) the wing. The LRI is > from > InAir Instruments, LLC. > > Larry Wood > N701LW Still Aborning > > >