Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:32 AM - XL Cabin Width, actual (Brett)
2. 05:15 AM - Re: XL Cabin Width, actual (Scott Laughlin)
3. 05:24 AM - bending & brakes (Robert Dziewiontkoski)
4. 05:38 AM - material list (ron wehba)
5. 06:26 AM - Spring Gear for 601HDS (Gary A. Boothe)
6. 07:05 AM - Re: bending & brakes (VideoFlyer@aol.com)
7. 07:18 AM - Re: Spring Gear for 601HDS (David Barth)
8. 07:51 AM - Fitting into a CH 601 XL (Ken Hornstein)
9. 07:58 AM - 701 nose skin measurements ()
10. 08:05 AM - Re: Surface Prep for Painting (Ihab Awad)
11. 09:00 AM - Re: CH200 and CH 250 Vs Ch 601 (Woody Sulloway)
12. 09:35 AM - Re: XL Cabin Width, actual ()
13. 10:25 AM - Re: XL Cabin Width, actual (Scott Laughlin)
14. 12:09 PM - Re: Workshop heating (Keith Norton)
15. 01:51 PM - top window 7F19-1 (Ron Lee)
16. 02:25 PM - Re: Spring Gear for 601HDS (Gary A. Boothe)
17. 06:22 PM - Re: top window 7F19-1 (LRM)
18. 07:02 PM - Shop heating (Tony Bonsell)
19. 07:41 PM - Re: bending & brakes (Jim and Lucy)
20. 09:52 PM - Re: bending & brakes&shop heat (Randy L. Thwing)
21. 10:24 PM - Re: Shop heating (Frank Stutzman)
22. 11:24 PM - 601XL Rudder Tip Rib Rivets (Todd Osborne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | XL Cabin Width, actual |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
My 601 XL is 43.5" at the back of the seat. Outside to outside. It is
41" inside to inside at or about your shoulders.
I couldn't find 44" anywhere.
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | XL Cabin Width, actual |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Brett and John:
Mine measures 44-1/16" outside to outside at the widest point just in front
of the seat back. I made the parts according to the plans as best I could
including the jig for bending upper longerons and the seatback. These items
set the cabin width.
My upper, front longerons are made from 1/8" thick angle.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Cabin Width, actual
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
My 601 XL is 43.5" at the back of the seat. Outside to outside. It is
41" inside to inside at or about your shoulders.
I couldn't find 44" anywhere.
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 3
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| Subject: | bending & brakes |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 07:14:16 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Dziewiontkoski" <bobdz@msn.com>
Just curious....
Why not use an aluminum siding brake?
They are readily available to buy/rent/borrow....
Message 4
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@cox.net>
Hi all, finally got my puter fixed, but lost everything on it, a while back someone
sent me a material list for the 701, sure would like to have it again,,also
I think someone around the dallas,tx area has a flying 701, would like to look
at one closeup, thanks
ron wehba
sweetwater,tx
minimax driver now.
701 soon I hope!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Spring Gear for 601HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Hi All,
I read somewhere that a spring landing gear for an HD or HDS is being used or tried.
I have plans for an HDS with tailwheel and am very interested in the spring
gear if anyone can help.
Thanks,
Gary Boothe
Corvair Power
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: bending & brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: VideoFlyer@aol.com
I used an aluminum siding brake on some of the parts for my XL. The problem
with them is...they are not designed to handle very thick aluminum. Some of
the longer pieces of .025 in particular were just "too much" for the siding
brake. The throat on a siding brake can also be a limiter. Also, many siding
brakes will make a sharp bend rather than a radiused bend. If you can find
one that does an 1/8" radius bend, it will work for many of the pieces that you
need. Make sure the clamping force is tight enough to prevent creeping of the
metal.
Dave
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Spring Gear for 601HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Hey Gary.
check out:
http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm
Look for Aluminum Spring Gear for HD/HDS under the heading: "Zodiac Changes"
Mark - cdngoose - and I (primarily Mark) have tried to make this a true portal
for all things "601" If anyone has information they think should go on the
ch601.org website, please let Mark or I know. Thanks
David
"Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe"
Hi All,
I read somewhere that a spring landing gear for an HD or HDS is being used or tried.
I have plans for an HDS with tailwheel and am very interested in the spring
gear if anyone can help.
Thanks,
Gary Boothe
Corvair Power
David Barth
601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
Working on Wings
www.ch601.org
---------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fitting into a CH 601 XL |
WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d
gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yP<ea#
"SJK;C*}fMI;Mv(aiO2z~9n.w?@\>kEpSD@*e`
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Hornstein <kenh@pobox.com>
Howdy all,
I've been researching the possibility of building a kit plane, or
perhaps buying one of the upcoming S-LSA that should be coming out on
the market in the next 12 months or so (I hope). From what I've found
so far, the Zodiac XL would be a one possible candidate.
The one thing that concerns me is that ... well, I'm not exactly a
supermodel. I know that I've heard lots of people say, "Hey, I weight
xxx, I'm yyy tall, and I fit into one just fine." That's very
encouraging ... but I'd rather try one out myself before I commit the
cash for one. I happen to live in the Washington, DC metro area, and I
was wondering if there was anyone in the area who had a completed or
partially complete 601 series aircraft that they would be willing to
let me sit in, just to try it on for size.
Just FYI, I did my primary training in a 172, and I didn't have too
many problems, although if the person sitting next to me was larger as
well, the seating was a bit more "friendly" that I normally would
prefer. After a bit of math, I determine that a 152 at full fuel is
essentially a single person aircraft for me :-/ (Okay, I could take
a small child or a shorter woman with me, but that would be pushing it).
--Ken
Do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | 701 nose skin measurements |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <petes15515@msn.com>
I'm just completing the right wing on my 701 and have come to the laying out
/ cutting of the nose skin coordinates as per the plans. My Q. is, looking
at the coordinate chart on 7V9, at X400 coord. the Y coord. takes a dip
inwards (270). At the X350 and 450 coords. the Y coord. is 290/292
respectively. Why does it go in at the x400 point ? It does,nt look right
laid out on the wing tip and it doesn,nt appear to line up with anything on
the fibreglass wing tip which I got from ZAC. Is this a typo ?? Seems to me
it should be around 290, not 270.
Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft SmartScreen
Technology.
Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN Premium right now and get the
first two months FREE*.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Surface Prep for Painting |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 13:19:35 -0400 09/30/2004 13:27:09, George F May
<gfmay@celestica.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: George F May <gfmay@celestica.com>
> I found this website on a non-chromate, non-alodine prep system. Is
> anyone familiar with this product or has tried it?
> http://www.terravendi.com/terravendi-main-en.asp
I hope this is not just obvious stuff but....
The site claims "corrosion protection" offhand, and lists the DoD
report as supporting evidence. However, it is important to note that
the actual DoD report (Executive Summary) says --
"2. From a corrosion preventive point of view, keeping both
the chromate conversion coating and the chromate containing
primer would be preferable. However, laboratory testing has
shown that as long as we have chrome in the primer, the
corrosion protective properties of our modern aircraft paint
systems will suffer little."
In other words, we already have the suspenders (chromate primer), so
we can do away with the belt (Alodine pretreatment).
Also, I would ask a lot of questions about the compatibility of a
"self-etching" primer with a PreKote treated surface.
The ZAC-recommended Cortec 373 has "vapor phase" magic that actively
suppresses corrosion.
Hope this helps. Peace,
Ihab
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CH200 and CH 250 Vs Ch 601 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Woody Sulloway <sulloway@clis.com>
Jim,
thanks for the info. I am a group member, so I should be able to access
the files
Jim and Lucy wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
>
>At 08:14 PM 9/30/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Woody Sulloway <sulloway@clis.com>
>>
>>
>>Hi Folks,
>>I'm contemplating buying a Zenith/Zodiac, Obviously the specifications for
>>the 601 are on the zenith site, but what are the differences between the
>>CH200 and CH250
>>verses the CH601 or HD and HDS?
>>
>>
>
>
>I uploaded some files with the zenair aircraft handout flyers for the
>older models I scanned and zipped.
>
>These give you the specs on most of the older ones that are not
>sold now.
>
>zenairold1.zip and zenairold2.zip are the ones you are looking for
>
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/zenithkitaircraft/files/
>
>
>You may need to join this group to get them?
>
>
>Jim Pollard
>merlin ont
>cutting holes in instrument pannel
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: XL Cabin Width, actual |
Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 11:30:02 -0500
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Scott, how about a little more information on the jig you used for the longerons?
I think there are several of us using I/8" angle, and bare hands and c-clamps
are pretty imprecise. You got pitchas?
Thanks,
Paul Rodriguez
601XL, corvair
Working on the fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Laughlin<mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Cabin Width, actual
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com<mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com>>
Brett and John:
Mine measures 44-1/16" outside to outside at the widest point just in front
of the seat back. I made the parts according to the plans as best I could
including the jig for bending upper longerons and the seatback. These items
set the cabin width.
My upper, front longerons are made from 1/8" thick angle.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com<http://www.cooknwithgas.com/>
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com<mailto:brett@hog-air.com>>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Cabin Width, actual
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:31:21 -0700
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com<mailto:brett@hog-air.com>>
My 601 XL is 43.5" at the back of the seat. Outside to outside. It is
41" inside to inside at or about your shoulders.
I couldn't find 44" anywhere.
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com<http://www.hog-air.com/>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: XL Cabin Width, actual |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
You talkin ta me? Sure I got pichas! Drawing 6-B-11 has the template
dimensions at the top, right corner. I used MDF from Lowes, so it was big
and heavy. Actually I used part of my work table when I downsized it from
12' to a 6' table.
Here's a photo of the bending jig - Larry McFarland gets credit for the tool
design. Larry used castors (wheels), but I had some aluminum pipe laying
around and used it instead:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/7_28_04_LongeronBending.JPG
It takes a little patience, but you can bend it so it rests easy on the
template and get both longerons almost identical. It tends to bend in both
directions so some tweaking is necessary. The second one went faster than
the first. Let me know if you have any questions.
Scott Laughlin
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
Starting to look like an airplane
----Original Message Follows----
From: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL Cabin Width, actual
--> Zenith-List message posted by: <PAULROD36@msn.com>
Scott, how about a little more information on the jig you used for the
longerons? I think there are several of us using I/8" angle, and bare hands
and c-clamps are pretty imprecise. You got pitchas?
Thanks,
Paul Rodriguez
601XL, corvair
Working on the fuselage
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Laughlin<mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL Cabin Width, actual
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com<mailto:cookwithgas@hotmail.com>>
Brett and John:
Mine measures 44-1/16" outside to outside at the widest point just in
front
of the seat back. I made the parts according to the plans as best I
could
including the jig for bending upper longerons and the seatback. These
items
set the cabin width.
My upper, front longerons are made from 1/8" thick angle.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com<http://www.cooknwithgas.com/>
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com<mailto:brett@hog-air.com>>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: XL Cabin Width, actual
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 00:31:21 -0700
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett "
<brett@hog-air.com<mailto:brett@hog-air.com>>
My 601 XL is 43.5" at the back of the seat. Outside to outside. It is
41" inside to inside at or about your shoulders.
I couldn't find 44" anywhere.
Thanks
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com<http://www.hog-air.com/>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Workshop heating |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keith Norton <KeithNorton@mac.com>
My shop is a 40' insulated shipping container (or conex). It is very
tight with little airflow unless I crack a door. I don't like to use
combustion heat in there but I used to do it. Currently, I am running
two 220v electric heaters which are expensive ($150/month running 24/7)
in the winter. Eventually, I plan to run in-floor hot water heat fed
from my outdoor boiler.
Keith Norton
Palmer, AK
701 - Waiting on plans and first sub-kit.
Message 15
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| Subject: | top window 7F19-1 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
Looking for suggestions on the installation of the top window 7F19-1. I am concerned
about water leakage, wind noise and a neat looking job. Has anyone sealed
it with anything to keep out water and noise? Those of you who are already
flying and or have your planes sitting outside will know if this is a problem
or not. Ron
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Spring Gear for 601HDS |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com>
Hi David,
Thanks for the quick response. I saw that websight link but couldn't figure
out who to contact about progress, testing to date, etc. Zenith has told me
that spring gear is not an option for the HDS, and if that's what I want I
need to consider changing to the XL. I am encouraged by the images on your
sight. Please tell me how to get more info as I would like to continue with
the HDS.
Gary Boothe
WW Corvair Power - 601
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Barth" <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Spring Gear for 601HDS
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: David Barth <davids601xl@yahoo.com>
>
> Hey Gary.
> check out:
> http://www.ch601.org/builder%20resources.htm
>
> Look for Aluminum Spring Gear for HD/HDS under the heading: "Zodiac
> Changes"
>
> Mark - cdngoose - and I (primarily Mark) have tried to make this a true
> portal for all things "601" If anyone has information they think
> should go on the ch601.org website, please let Mark or I know. Thanks
> David
>
>
> "Gary A. Boothe" <gboothe@calply.com> wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary A. Boothe"
>
> Hi All,
>
> I read somewhere that a spring landing gear for an HD or HDS is being used
> or tried. I have plans for an HDS with tailwheel and am very interested in
> the spring gear if anyone can help.
>
> Thanks,
> Gary Boothe
> Corvair Power
>
>
> David Barth
> 601 XL Plansbuilder 15% done?
> Working on Wings
> www.ch601.org
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: top window 7F19-1 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" <lrm@isp.com>
Use weather strip tape, you can get it at any hardware store. Larry N1345L
P.S. Get the marine/auto usage kind, I got mine at Lowe's.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: top window 7F19-1
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron Lee" <rlee468@comcast.net>
>
> Looking for suggestions on the installation of the top window 7F19-1. I
am concerned about water leakage, wind noise and a neat looking job. Has
anyone sealed it with anything to keep out water and noise? Those of you who
are already flying and or have your planes sitting outside will know if this
is a problem or not. Ron
> Do not archive
>
>
---
Message 18
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Tony Bonsell <tbonsell@luxuria.com>
Thanks for all the great replies!
Propane sounds great, but jari's right, geothermal is the way to go. Think
there might be a volcano out behind the barn. Better start digging...
******************************************************
Tony Bonsell (tbonsell@luxuria.com) CI-FKF
Luxuria + Apparatus Design Communications
535 Cragg Road, RR #3
Uxbridge, Ontario L9P 1R3
Voice: 905.852.3848
http://www.luxuria.com
******************************************************
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: bending & brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@ciaccess.com>
At 07:14 AM 10/1/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Robert Dziewiontkoski" <bobdz@msn.com>
>
>Just curious....
>
>Why not use an aluminum siding brake?
>
>They are readily available to buy/rent/borrow....
I tried one. Needed to stack up 3 previously bent pieces to get the proper
radius. It was ok for very short bends but anything longer
than 12 inches and it would warp the part. Aluminum siding material
is much softer and easier to bend than 6061.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: bending & brakes&shop heat |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
My experience is just the opposite, I have a 10' Tapco that is rated to
.032" that I have used to bend all the parts up to and including that
thickness for a plans built 701. You do have to build up the nose with
previously bent material to get the radius correct. The parts it just
wouldn't bend were the .040" x 6'? rear fuselage longerons. At the time I
borrowed a shop brake for those. I have since bought a Roper-Whitney 8' x
16 ga. (mild steel rated) shop brake but have yet to bend a ZA part on it.
I have pictures of the Tapco if needed.
Regarding shop heat, we use a "space heater", you know, the jet engine that
sits on wheels on the floor and is designed to use kerosene. When real
kerosene is used there is a very strong objectionable smell that fills the
place. I use a mix of about 10 to 20% regular unleaded auto gas mixed with
No. 2 diesel fuel. This approximates cold weather mix diesel fuel (No.1).
It works great and has almost no noticable smell. Now I can't believe it is
healthy to breath the products of combustion of this mix, but as ALL these
heaters must be used with adequate ventilation, we have had no problems. DO
VENTILATE PROPERLY!!! My heater has a 8 gallon fuel tank. I take it to the
gas station and put in one gallon of unleaded, then fill the remainder with
NO. 2 diesel. It does get cold here once in awhile.
Regards,
Randy L. Thwing, 701 plans, Las Vegas
> >Just curious....
> >
> >Why not use an aluminum siding brake?
> >
> >They are readily available to buy/rent/borrow....
>
>
> I tried one. Needed to stack up 3 previously bent pieces to get the proper
> radius. It was ok for very short bends but anything longer
> than 12 inches and it would warp the part. Aluminum siding material
> is much softer and easier to bend than 6061.
>
> Jim Pollard
> Merlin Ont
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Shop heating |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Frank Stutzman <stutzman@stutzman.com>
On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Tony Bonsell wrote:
> Propane sounds great, but jari's right, geothermal is the way to go. Think
> there might be a volcano out behind the barn. Better start digging...
Ha! You joke.
I'm currently sitting about 40 miles southeast of Mt. Saint Helens.
Considering the steam it was venting at about 12:30 today, I'd say the
chances of the wood stove in my shop becomming redundant is more than nil.
Maybe not much more than nil, but...
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR
Message 22
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| Subject: | 601XL Rudder Tip Rib Rivets |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Todd Osborne <todd@toddtown.com>
The plans clearly state there are 2 A4 rivets in each side of the
connector piece that holds the rudder tip rib to the spar, but the photo
right next to it clearly shows there being 4 rivets in the top of the
tip rib. What have you done? 4 rivets would be tight in such a small
area, which brings up another point, why is the side that connect to the
spar web so dang long? If it only gets 2 rivets, like the top, seems a
peice that has equal sides would be fine.
The plans don't show it, and the manual does not say it, but I have seen
Zodiac's with rivets through the rudder skin into the tip rib forward of
the spar. Should there be any here? Thanks.
--
Todd Osborne
Internet E-Mail: todd@toddtown.com
Web Site: www.toddtown.com
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