Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:03 AM - Autopilot (caspainhower@aep.com)
2. 02:11 AM - 601XL wing tank weight? (caspainhower@aep.com)
3. 05:08 AM - 601XL wing tank weight? or material/thickness? (Ozarkseller2@aol.com)
4. 05:09 AM - 601XL wing tank weight, or weights? (Ozarkseller2@aol.com)
5. 05:27 AM - Re: Arm Rest 601XL (Scott Laughlin)
6. 07:51 AM - Re: Autopilot (Mike Fothergill)
7. 08:21 AM - Re: Autopilot (was: Panel Design - suggestions welcome) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 09:04 AM - Re: Autopilot (was: Panel Design - suggestions welcome) (Leo J. Corbalis)
9. 09:15 AM - Re: Autopilot (royt.or@netzero.com)
10. 09:20 AM - Re: Arm Rest 601XL (Leo J. Corbalis)
11. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: Autopilot 0.10 FULL_REFUND BODY: Offers a full refund (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
12. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Autopilot 0.10 FULL_REFUND BODY: Offers a full refund (Lance Gingell)
13. 05:22 PM - Any multiple builders...Question (LFswmbkrn@aol.com)
14. 06:04 PM - 601 defroster (Doug Mattson)
15. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: Autopilot 0.10 FULL_REFUNDBODY: Offers a full refund (Greg Ferris)
16. 07:53 PM - Re: 601 defroster (Greg Ferris)
17. 09:16 PM - 601XL wing tank weight? (Paul Moore)
Message 1
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|July 24, 2002) at 10/06/2004 05:02:34 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
Michel,
If you plan to do much in the way of long x-country flying you should
consider keeping the autopilot. I currently fly a 172 "Skydog" and as
stable as they are it would still be nice to set an autopilot and just look
out the windows. Especially when it's 3 - 5 miles visibility in haze or at
night (or in busy airspace trying to read a map). My panel will definitely
be sporting an autopilot.
Craig
N601XS, 0-235 lyc
I had a very fun time today with my two first training
flights. During the first flight, I showed my Navaid
to my instructor, hoping to impress him I suppose. He
did not like the feeling of having a machine driving
the plane for him....
I suggested that this could be useful if busy while
reading a map for example. He showed me to control
the plane with rudder only, both hands free. euh...
OK.... may be I bought this for nothing... after all,
now that I discover flying, I feel that it is a waste
to give this fun to an electro-mechanic device.
I think I'll consider selling my Navaid shortly... (it
ran only for 10 minutes so far!).
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| Subject: | 601XL wing tank weight? |
|July 24, 2002) at 10/06/2004 05:11:17 AM
--> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
I contacted ZAC prior to making the decision to add Aux tanks. As I
remember they estimated ~15lbs increase with tank, fuel senders and extra
hose. There will also be the weight of unusable fuel to consider, but that
should get you in the ballpark.
Craig
N601XS
> >I'm considering adding the extra long range tanks, which I believe are
> >essentially same as the standard wing tanks and should weigh about the
> same.
> >Anyone
> >know what one of the 10 gal. tanks weighs? I figure I can estimate the
> weight
> >of additional plumbing etc., but wanted to get and idea of how much
> additional
> >weight the extra tanks would add..
This e-mail message and all attachments transmitted with it from the
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use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
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Message 3
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| Subject: | 601XL wing tank weight? or material/thickness? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ozarkseller2@aol.com
In a message dated 10/5/2004 11:54:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
ac6qj@earthlink.net writes:
> Sorry but - 10 gallons is not the standard size of the XL tanks. They are
> 12 gallons. Your best bet is going to be to calculate the surface area and
> then use common tables (available in aircraft spruce catalog among other
> places) to calculate the the weight based on the thickness and type of alloy
> used. That is going to get you more than close enough to what you're
> looking for. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes either...
OOPS!, Yes 12 gal. Anyone know the weight of one, or the material and
thickness?
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| Subject: | 601XL wing tank weight, or weights? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ozarkseller2@aol.com
In a message dated 10/6/2004 4:12:00 AM Central Daylight Time,
caspainhower@aep.com writes:
> I contacted ZAC prior to making the decision to add Aux tanks. As I
> remember they estimated ~15lbs increase with tank, fuel senders and extra
> hose. There will also be the weight of unusable fuel to consider, but that
> should get you in the ballpark.
15 pounds each, or for the pair?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Arm Rest 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Dave:
I took out the MDF last night and everything is in place now. The MDF is a
removable "Jig" to make sure everything stays nice and square when drilling
and riveting. I've since been told by other builders that they were able to
install the armrest without a jig and it came out square. I may have not
done it in the right order, but it would't stay in one place for me to
drill, cleco, etc, so the jig helped me with that.
Scott.
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arm Rest 601XL
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
<dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
Hi Scott.
Just a quick question on your jig. Do you plan on leaving the mdf in place
or remove it after you've layed it all out. It seems to add extra weight to
leave it in or am I mising something.
Dave (Alberta)
XL
99% to go
In process of moving homes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Arm Rest 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Fellow XL builders:
>
> This weekend I had plans to fabricate and install the arm rest and move
on
> to some other fuselage construction. I found out the arm rest is a
fairly
> difficult installation and took most of my weekend work time. The plans
> and
> assembly manual are very brief on this item. I saw no way to make sure
> the
> thing was true and square if I just installed the parts according to the
> manual.
>
> I used my table saw to make a true and square jig and built the armrest
> around this. I drilled right into the wood and installed the clecos into
> the wood jig. The jig is made from scrap pressboard shelving. MDF would
> have worked, but I used what I had. My table saw allowed me to make sure
> the
> top was square with the bottom and the width was the same for the top and
> bottom. The rear angle was "tweaked" for an exact fit in my airplane.
>
> Here's a photo of the jig:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_2_04_CenterJig.jpg
>
> And a day later, here it is with everything cleco'd in place:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_3_04_CenterJig.jpg
>
> Another advantage to having the jig is that you can drill the first few
> holes in the "L" angles, then lift the whole thing out, lay it on the
> workbench and drill the remaining holes nice and straight. The first few
> have to be angled to fit in tight areas. Same with the holes down into
> the
> fuselage -just lift out the jig and leave the L-angles in place and drill
> straight down.
>
> I am making this post in hopes that it will help someone trying to decide
> how to install this part. I lost at least an hour trying to decide if I
> needed a jig or not. The manual just shows photos of the L-angles being
> installed, then attaching the armrest. Easier said than done.
>
> The scary thing is that I only have three or four fuselage drawings to
> de-cipher for my project.
>
> Good luck and happy building,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
>
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Fothergill <mfothergill@sympatico.ca>
Hi;
I have installed the Trio Avionics EZ Pilot autopilot in my Ch-601HDS as
a toy as much as any good reason. However it does a great job of keeping
the airplane straight while I am reading and/or folding the map and
looking up airport info in the CFS. Another feature is its ability to
get you out of a cloud without losing control.
Now if they get altitude hold, I might do that too.
This is fun stuff.
mike
UHS Spinners
caspainhower@aep.com wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: caspainhower@aep.com
>
>
> Michel,
> If you plan to do much in the way of long x-country flying you should
> consider keeping the autopilot. I currently fly a 172 "Skydog" and as
> stable as they are it would still be nice to set an autopilot and just look
> out the windows. Especially when it's 3 - 5 miles visibility in haze or at
> night (or in busy airspace trying to read a map). My panel will definitely
> be sporting an autopilot.
>
> Craig
> N601XS, 0-235 lyc
Message 7
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| Subject: | Panel Design - suggestions welcome) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Absolutly not Michel!
The 601 is a lovely little A/C to bat around the patch in but for cross
country quite honestly it's a little hard work...You even glance at the
map and the thing is all over the place. I don't know anything about the
Navaid but if it keeps the wings level and your nose pointed at your
destination you got a good thing going.
Keep it...You will use it on every cross county I gurantee it.
Frank
344 HDS time....things nearly worn out....:)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Therrien
Subject: Autopilot (was: Zenith-List: Panel Design - suggestions
welcome)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
I had a very fun time today with my two first training
flights. During the first flight, I showed my Navaid
to my instructor, hoping to impress him I suppose. He
did not like the feeling of having a machine driving
the plane for him....
I suggested that this could be useful if busy while
reading a map for example. He showed me to control
the plane with rudder only, both hands free. euh...
OK.... may be I bought this for nothing... after all,
now that I discover flying, I feel that it is a waste
to give this fun to an electro-mechanic device.
I think I'll consider selling my Navaid shortly... (it
ran only for 10 minutes so far!).
Michel
=====
----------------------------
Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
_______________________________
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Design - suggestions welcome) |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
If you had it coupled to your GPS you'd really appreciate it on a hazy day
when holding a heading becomes much more difficult, especially with your
head OUT of the cockpit. Try it you'll like it.
Leo Corbalis
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Therrien" <mtherr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Autopilot (was: Zenith-List: Panel Design - suggestions welcome)
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Michel Therrien <mtherr@yahoo.com>
>
> I had a very fun time today with my two first training
> flights. During the first flight, I showed my Navaid
> to my instructor, hoping to impress him I suppose. He
> did not like the feeling of having a machine driving
> the plane for him....
>
> I suggested that this could be useful if busy while
> reading a map for example. He showed me to control
> the plane with rudder only, both hands free. euh...
> OK.... may be I bought this for nothing... after all,
> now that I discover flying, I feel that it is a waste
> to give this fun to an electro-mechanic device.
>
> I think I'll consider selling my Navaid shortly... (it
> ran only for 10 minutes so far!).
>
> Michel
>
>
> =====
> ----------------------------
> Michel Therrien CH601-HD, C-GZGQ
> http://mthobby.pcperfect.com/ch601
> http://www.zenithair.com/bldrlist/profiles/mthobby
> http://pages.infinit.net/mthobby
>
>
> _______________________________
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
Message 9
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0.10 FULL_REFUND BODY: Offers a full refund
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "royt.or@netzero.com" <royt.or@netzero.com>
Michael,
I dont remember the date of first flight for your plane. If it was within 60 days and if you purchased the Navaid Device from the manufacturer, you should be able to return it for a full refund. The full, unquestioned return policy is something like within 60 days of purchase OR first flight. Search the list for 601rt & navaid to see my experience with Navaid Devices. I was not able to access http://navaid-devices.com this morning???
I think having an autopilot is great and would recommend it. I dont know any pilots who would not value having an autopilot. Im currently in the process of upgrading my Trutrak Digitrak to a Digiflight II. See http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com. Note that I dont agree with Franks assessment that cross country quite honestly it's a little hard work...You even glance at the map and the thing is all over the place. While the CH601HDS is not as stable as a C172, it is not unusually sensitive for a homebuilt. The RVs I flow are at least as sensitive/responsive as my CH601HDS. Also note that I've had days flying Cessnas or my previous Mooney when "glancing a the map the thing was all over the place."
Based on your earlier post regarding panel design you would probably think my plane
is over equipped. I do enjoy using my CD/MP3 player on cross country flights,
and I believe my GNS430 has electronic check list capability. Maybe I should
start using it. :-) My EAA flight advisor is a SWA captain with something
like 18,000 hours. He wrote that You have more capability than we do in our Boeing
737/700.
First flight was 5/12/03. Two cross country trips from the west coast to OSH.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
304hrs, 380 landings
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Arm Rest 601XL |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
I am 77 and have to put half my weight on the armrest to get my body moving
up to egress. I used .032 for a replacement top and added 2 vertical "L"
angles to each side. I bent the free edge of the "L" over about 1/4 inch and
added a piece of nylon rub strip for the rudder cables. A skyhook would be
ideal.
Leo Corbalis
601HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arm Rest 601XL
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>
> Dave:
>
> I took out the MDF last night and everything is in place now. The MDF is
a
> removable "Jig" to make sure everything stays nice and square when
drilling
> and riveting. I've since been told by other builders that they were able
to
> install the armrest without a jig and it came out square. I may have not
> done it in the right order, but it would't stay in one place for me to
> drill, cleco, etc, so the jig helped me with that.
>
> Scott.
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Dave & Darlene" <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arm Rest 601XL
> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 20:46:27 -0700
>
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave & Darlene"
> <dnimigon@telusplanet.net>
>
> Hi Scott.
> Just a quick question on your jig. Do you plan on leaving the mdf in place
> or remove it after you've layed it all out. It seems to add extra weight
to
> leave it in or am I mising something.
> Dave (Alberta)
> XL
> 99% to go
> In process of moving homes
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Arm Rest 601XL
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
> > <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Fellow XL builders:
> >
> > This weekend I had plans to fabricate and install the arm rest and move
> on
> > to some other fuselage construction. I found out the arm rest is a
> fairly
> > difficult installation and took most of my weekend work time. The
plans
> > and
> > assembly manual are very brief on this item. I saw no way to make sure
> > the
> > thing was true and square if I just installed the parts according to
the
> > manual.
> >
> > I used my table saw to make a true and square jig and built the armrest
> > around this. I drilled right into the wood and installed the clecos
into
> > the wood jig. The jig is made from scrap pressboard shelving. MDF
would
> > have worked, but I used what I had. My table saw allowed me to make
sure
> > the
> > top was square with the bottom and the width was the same for the top
and
> > bottom. The rear angle was "tweaked" for an exact fit in my airplane.
> >
> > Here's a photo of the jig:
> >
> > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_2_04_CenterJig.jpg
> >
> > And a day later, here it is with everything cleco'd in place:
> >
> > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_3_04_CenterJig.jpg
> >
> > Another advantage to having the jig is that you can drill the first few
> > holes in the "L" angles, then lift the whole thing out, lay it on the
> > workbench and drill the remaining holes nice and straight. The first
few
> > have to be angled to fit in tight areas. Same with the holes down into
> > the
> > fuselage -just lift out the jig and leave the L-angles in place and
drill
> > straight down.
> >
> > I am making this post in hopes that it will help someone trying to
decide
> > how to install this part. I lost at least an hour trying to decide if
I
> > needed a jig or not. The manual just shows photos of the L-angles
being
> > installed, then attaching the armrest. Easier said than done.
> >
> > The scary thing is that I only have three or four fuselage drawings to
> > de-cipher for my project.
> >
> > Good luck and happy building,
> >
> > Scott Laughlin
> > http://www.cooknwithgas.com/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot 0.10 FULL_REFUND BODY: |
Offers a full refund
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Of course Roy doesn't agree with me, but then he does so much cross
country flying he's probably a lot more used to it than I
am...:)...Personally I'm exhausted after 3 hours at the stick and I
don't remember being that tired in a C152. So I put it down to the
lively handling of the airplane, maybe its my crappy seats instead.
Either way the A/P is a very worthwhile addition.
Say Roy, do you have a Truetrack for sale or is this something that
Truetrack offers an upgrade on?
Can I ask why you want the Digiflight 2 rather than say their simple
"altitude hold" unit in addition to your Trutrack??...I ask 'cos I was
thinking of going that way for the new IFR RV 7.
Thanks
Frank
Do not archive
Note that I dont agree with Franks assessment that cross country quite
honestly it's a little hard work...You even glance at the map and the
thing is all over the place.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot 0.10 FULL_REFUND BODY: |
Offers a full refund
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
Hi Roy,
What's Trutrack's upgrade policy on those? Do you just add a servo and
pay the difference in price on the controller?
I may be in the market for a Digitrak (let me know if you can't
upgrade)...but I may just go with the digiflight and have the whole
thing flown for me!
I never did get to play with the autopilot. I'll have to take a closer
look sometime.
..lance
Im currently in the process of upgrading my Trutrak Digitrak to a
Digiflight II. See http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com.
Regards,
Roy
N601RT: CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR equipped,
304hrs, 380 landings
Message 13
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| Subject: | Any multiple builders...Question |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LFswmbkrn@aol.com
Hello all,
Does anybody out there have lots of experience with Zenith and know about some
of the older aircraft? I have a question on a plane.
Thanks,
Larry
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Mattson" <dougmattson@isp.com>
A question for 601 drivers, is a defroster necessary?
Doug Mattson
601 XL cam100
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot 0.10 FULL_REFUNDBODY: Offers a full |
refund
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
I had a 4 hour 20 minute leg in my 601HD the weekend before last, and it
didn't bother me a bit not having an autopilot. Flipping the chart gives
one good unusual attitudes practice :) I don't know how much stability
difference there is between a HD and HDS or XL for that matter, but in
smooth air my HD requires very minimal help to keep on track.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Autopilot 0.10 FULL_REFUNDBODY: Offers a full
refund
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
> Of course Roy doesn't agree with me, but then he does so much cross
> country flying he's probably a lot more used to it than I
> am...:)...Personally I'm exhausted after 3 hours at the stick and I
> don't remember being that tired in a C152. So I put it down to the
> lively handling of the airplane, maybe its my crappy seats instead.
>
> Either way the A/P is a very worthwhile addition.
>
> Say Roy, do you have a Truetrack for sale or is this something that
> Truetrack offers an upgrade on?
>
> Can I ask why you want the Digiflight 2 rather than say their simple
> "altitude hold" unit in addition to your Trutrack??...I ask 'cos I was
> thinking of going that way for the new IFR RV 7.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> Do not archive
>
> Note that I dont agree with Franks assessment that cross country quite
> honestly it's a little hard work...You even glance at the map and the
> thing is all over the place.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 601 defroster |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Greg Ferris" <ferret@wmtel.net>
I live in the upper Midwest and keep flying in the winter so I put a
defroster in. I started with something really simple and it works
surprisingly well. I have a 1.5" scat tube attached to a bracket in front
of the cabin heat shutter in the firewall (the shutter was part of the kit).
This allows warm air to rise up the scat tube and through a notch with a
screen in the front upper fueslage skin. So far that has done the job for
me even when I've braved temps in the low teens.
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Mattson" <dougmattson@isp.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 defroster
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Doug Mattson" <dougmattson@isp.com>
>
> A question for 601 drivers, is a defroster necessary?
>
> Doug Mattson
>
> 601 XL cam100
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | 601XL wing tank weight? |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Paul Moore" <pmoore505@msn.com>
I weighed 4 separate tanks - bare but with recessed cap, just the way they
come packaged from ZAC and they were all between 5 and 5.5#. No senders,
fittings, lines, pumps, etc., just tank and cap.
Paul
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