Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:17 AM - Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! (Ron DeWees)
2. 06:26 AM - Re: Ugly flag slot again. (Benford2@aol.com)
3. 06:35 AM - Exhaust fumes in cabin (Grant Corriveau)
4. 06:37 AM - Re: Ugly flag slot again. (LRM)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! (LRM)
6. 06:49 AM - Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin (Dave Austin)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin (Larry McFarland)
8. 09:07 AM - not a dumb a**? (Brett Hanley)
9. 09:36 AM - Re: Ugly flag slot again (Jim Frisby)
10. 12:50 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin (Frank Jones)
11. 03:43 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin (Larry McFarland)
12. 05:03 PM - Re: Taxi-Tests 601 HDS Stratus Subaru (Bill Morelli)
13. 05:31 PM - Re: bending & brakes (Ihab Awad)
14. 05:56 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin (Frank Jones)
15. 06:21 PM - Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! (Brett)
16. 06:35 PM - Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! (Jimmy Parker)
17. 07:20 PM - Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin (Larry McFarland)
18. 07:53 PM - Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! (Mike Sinclair)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
HI MIke,
So sorry to hear about your axle shear incident. I'm so glad Chirs designed
his planes to soak up a lot of enegy before bending the occupants. Thanks
for sharing the details. I am sure it will provoke a lot of inspections and
possibly prevent another accident.
Ron
N601TD in progress
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ugly flag slot again. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 10/8/2004 6:59:42 PM Mountain Daylight Time, lrm@isp.com
writes:
>
> I did a little search today because I don't want to put a slot for the
> flaperon control in the side of my pretty paint job. I would prefer the side
to be
> sealed to keep out dirt dobbers and such.
>
> I didn't get the guys name that proposed an inside and outside bell crank.
> But, it looks workable to me. Has any one tried it yet?
>
> I haven't built my wings yet, so I not quite ready to jump on it. Unless
> someone can give me a good logical reason why not, I'll try it.
>
> Larry Martin, N1345L
>
> Take a look at my site. Larry's 701
>
>
>
There are several of us 801 drivers flying that design and it works great. I
agree the banana slot is ugly at best.....
Ben Haas N801BH
Message 3
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| Subject: | Exhaust fumes in cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantc@ca.inter.net>
> Time: 05:12:40 PM PST US
> From: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in cabin
> 3. I removed those airflow lips at the bottom of my firewall when I
> rebuilt the firewall - Perhaps this is causing poorer exhaust airflow
> exiting the engine compartment. I didn't think they made a whole lot of
> difference with my battery and oil reservoir in the way in most places
> on the lower firewall.
FWIW - this would be MY best guess given your other information about good
seals on the exhaust system etc... If the CO level is building up now due
to less ventilation in the engine compartment, I'm guessing there's more
chance of finding its way in through all the small, inevitable openings in
the firewall...
Maybe you could replace that lip, at least temporarily and see what happens?
Good luck,
--
Grant Corriveau
C-GHTF / HDS / CAM100
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Ugly flag slot again. |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" <lrm@isp.com>
I thought it worked, I'll check it out and fix it. The address is
www.angelfire.com/un/ch701. Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "ron wehba" <rwehba@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ugly flag slot again.
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ron wehba" <rwehba@cox.net>
>
> how bout a link to your site
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
> To: "Zenith Forum" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Ugly flag slot again.
>
>
> > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
> >
> > I did a little search today because I don't want to put a slot for the
> flaperon control in the side of my pretty paint job. I would prefer the
side
> to be sealed to keep out dirt dobbers and such.
> >
> > I didn't get the guys name that proposed an inside and outside bell
crank.
> But, it looks workable to me. Has any one tried it yet?
> >
> > I haven't built my wings yet, so I not quite ready to jump on it.
Unless
> someone can give me a good logical reason why not, I'll try it.
> >
> > Larry Martin, N1345L
> >
> > Take a look at my site. Larry's 701
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
>
>
---
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "LRM" <lrm@isp.com>
Really sorry to hear about it.
I've already questioned Zenith about using such small axles on the 701. As
some of you probably know I was building RAF 2000 gyroplanes before I got
into the 701. The RAF uses 1" solid axles machined out of solid stock,
there are no welds. The best I remember, the reason they went to machined
axles is because of weld problems and/or bent axles. The RAFs are "supposed
to be" set up for rough type landings. And, the gross weight is about the
same as the 701.
When I first talked to Roger at Zenith, I questioned him about tapping the
end of the axle for wheel pant mounting, I was assuming an aircraft that is
supposed to be "a jeep" would have extra heavy axles. He said I couldn't
drill and tap it because they were hollow and only 5/8 OD. He also stated
that hollow axles were stronger than solid axles, which I don't disagree,
but the welds might be a different story. That almost blew the deal, I
wasn't comfortable with it then and really not comfortable with it now.
I fully expect to make quite a few hard landings while I am learning to fly
this thing.
Mike, if you/NTSB prove that the axle was the cause of your problems, I
would think Matco might have a liability issue.
Larry N1345L
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Sinclair" <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Matco axle assembly malfunction!
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
>
> Just a note for you all that may have the wheel and axle assembly that
bolts
> on to the main spring. I believe it is from Matco as supplied by Zenith. I
made
> a landing this evening, a little harder than I would have liked, but
nothing
> that I feel was excessive, on a semi rough grass strip. The left axle
snapped
> at the weld. On close examination of the weld it appears to be a very
> substandard weld, with very little penetration, and really very little
> strength. Also appears that it may been partially cracked already due to
the
> color and oxidation of the metal in a few areas of the break. I intend to
look
> at this a whole lot closer. End result for me, left spring dug into the
ground
> and it all went south from there. Fuselage bent, landing gear structure
ripped
> somewhat loose from left side, cowl destroyed, radiator smashed and oil
cooler
> ripped off, exhaust system bent, prop destroyed, right wing completely
mangled,
> firewall bent, and I don't know what all else. Will have to get it home
and
> start pulling it apart to see what else got bent. It took awhile to locate
the
> left wheel, turned out it bounced off the top of the cowl (tire marks gave
that
> away) and finally came to a stop about 100 yards from the plane (on the
right
> side at the 2 o'clock from flight path). I have to wait until the NTSB can
come
> out to look at it in the morning before I can start to dissasemble and
move it
> home. For me there where no injuries whatsoever, but I'm just glad I
wasn't
> carrying a passenger. The reinforced seat belt and sholder harness attach
> points did their job very well. The impact was strong enough that it
removed
> the headset from my head, And I found my glasses ahead of the rudder
pedals
> near the firewall. Five years to build, 70 hours of flight, then trash.
This
> really sucks! And it appears that a bad weld may have got me.
>
> Mike Sinclair
> N701TD (Let them damn property tax guys appraise this!)
>
>
---
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@sprint.ca>
IMHO, I'd talk to Zenith about the function of the curved pieces at the
bottom of the firewall. My bet is that they are quite important in getting
good air flow out of the cowl.
My firewall is not sealed as well as it could be, I have the slide joins in
the exhaust system, but I don't get smells or CO in the cabin.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Frank,
I'm flying a Stratus 601, with no lower firewall lip, a sliding joint
between muffler
and one exhaust manifold and have no heat muffler taking air from anything
that may leak
CO2. Have never smelled exhaust or fuel owing to both overflow and exhaust
being routed
well away from opposite sides of the fuselage. The exhaust pipe must clear
the cowl and fuselage a good bit
or you could be pulling CO2 back into the trailing structure. As for within
the cowl, isolate each
place that has a joint starting at the engine exhaust flanges and work a
tight no-leak fit for
everything. You might wrap your pipes as well if you have any joints that
need help.
And, if your NASA vents are forward of your leading edges, you've not got a
problem, but if they
are above the wing, the low pressure area may be pulling air out thru them
and sucking CO2 in thru the firewall from surfaces that draft airflow. If
this is the case, I'd change the NASA vents to a scoop that would
capture passing airflow to get positive air into your cabin.
Hope this helps
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in cabin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>
> I'm experiencing some exhaust fumes in my 601 cabin and am having
> trouble pinning down the source.
Message 8
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Brett Hanley <bretttdc@yahoo.com>
That part is not detailed correctly in the early
versions of the plans. You are most likely using a
revision three or earlier. Call ZAC and they can fax
you the revised drawing. If you have any more trouble
with this matter feel free to contact me off list.
Brett
do not archive
Time: 12:36:09 PM PST US
From: Rick <n701rr@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 701 dumb a** question
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Rick
<n701rr@yahoo.com>
Am I missing something obvious?
Slat Support Positioning Template:
I'm trying to build the template but using drawing
7-V-5, I see the top
Message 9
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| Subject: | Ugly flag slot again |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jim Frisby" <n801za@hotmail.com>
Larry,
Some of us 801 guys have incorporated a no-slot control for our flaperons.
I conceived the idea a couple years ago, Ben Haas welded up the bellcrank
parts. I know that Gary Liming has a good writeup on how it is installed on
his site.
(http://www.liming.org/ch801/FHNSF.html)
My 801 has about 55 hrs now, with the mod and I am happy with it. Bill
Wilcox (of Valdez Alaska) has 180+ hrs with the no-slot mod and it's working
good for him also.
Jim Frisby
N801ZA
http://www.horizonsignposting.com/N801ZA
>Subject: Zenith-List: Ugly flag slot again.
>
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry Martin" <lrm@isp.com>
>
>I did a little search today because I don't want to put a slot for the
>flaperon
>control in the side of my pretty paint job. I would prefer the side to be
>sealed
>to keep out dirt dobbers and such.
>
>I didn't get the guys name that proposed an inside and outside bell crank.
>But,
>it looks workable to me. Has any one tried it yet?
>
>I haven't built my wings yet, so I not quite ready to jump on it. Unless
>someone
>can give me a good logical reason why not, I'll try it.
>
>Larry Martin, N1345L
>
>Take a look at my site. Larry's 701
>
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 10
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| Subject: | Exhaust fumes in cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Thanks Larry, and others.
I was thinking of wrapping the joints with aluminum tape. Any other
suggestions for wrapping material?
Frank
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
The belting that hot rodders use to contain the excess heat on the pipes
works
exceedingly well for that purpose and could better replace your use of an
aluminum tape. But if you have a flex joint, of some kind try to tighten
every
spot of its design before wrapping.
You wet the wrap before applying as you're supposed to and then I used .032
safety
wire to secure it every 2" as I went and then when it drys, you spray a heat
resistant silver
that comes with the package. Very nice looking stuff when its done.
See pictures at my Subaru engine page if you need to see more.
Larry McFarland - 601hds @ www.macsmachine.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in cabin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
> I was thinking of wrapping the joints with aluminum tape. Any other
> suggestions for wrapping material?
>
> Frank
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Taxi-Tests 601 HDS Stratus Subaru |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bill Morelli" <billvt@together.net>
Andrew,
With regard to the rudder pedals.
They do stink if you comapre them to say the pedals on an Cessna.
What I found works for me (with size 11 feet) is that during takeoff roll and
when landing, I place my feet on the pedals with the inside of my feet almost
touchig. This keeps you away from the brakes. I have been flying like that for
375 hours. Once you get the feel for having your feet close together like that,
it almost seems natural.
Regards,
Bill (N812BM - 601HDS - Tri - Stratus (RAM Heads) - Vermont - 375.6 flight
hrs. - 502 landings
web site -> http://homepages.together.net/~billvt/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: bending & brakes |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Ihab Awad <ihab.awad@gmail.com>
[ Quick delurk. Though I'm not building an a/c at the moment, I am
trying to teach myself to do sheetmetal work. ]
Re the need to have a radius die for the brake, I came up with a
pretty simple setup using plain hardware store stuff ---
http://genetics.stanford.edu/~ihab/projects/bending-brake-die/
It seems to work well for thin material so far. Hope this helps. Peace,
Ihab
Message 14
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| Subject: | Exhaust fumes in cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Thanks Larry I'll look into that. I have 6 ball type joints to cover.
They are held together with springs. Since I need such a small amount of
this material, and since I can't get any locally, another idea I'm
considering is to wrap these 6 small areas with some fiberglass cloth
and place a hose clamp around each. I bet that will do the job.
Frank
>The belting that hot rodders use to contain the excess heat on the
pipes
works
exceedingly well for that purpose and could better replace your use of
an
aluminum tape. But if you have a flex joint, of some kind try to
tighten
every
spot of its design before wrapping.
You wet the wrap before applying as you're supposed to and then I used
.032
safety
wire to secure it every 2" as I went and then when it drys, you spray a
heat
resistant silver
that comes with the package. Very nice looking stuff when its done.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " <brett@hog-air.com>
Mike
First let me say I am very sorry to hear something like that. I mean
that just SUCKS! I think mine were made from one solid piece. But you
can bet I am going to check.
Thanks for the warning.
Brett Ray
www.hog-air.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimmy Parker <jwestie1@juno.com>
Mike,
Sorry to hear about your mishap.
I was looking forward to meeting you.
Some GA guys met you at a fly-in and loved your plane.
They make mention to me because they found out I was building a 701.
Question:
You have a "tail dragger" right?
Do you think the damage would have been as great on
the original tricycle gear?
Jim
5098 701
Do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust fumes in cabin |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
The fiberglass cloth probably won't contain the CO2 as well
as the belting, you're also trying to constrain 1250-1450-degrees F.
You might eliminate the ball joints and replace them with bolted flanges.
They seem to be the most likely issue here.
Larry
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Exhaust fumes in cabin
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" <fjones@sympatico.ca>
>
> Thanks Larry I'll look into that. I have 6 ball type joints to cover.
> They are held together with springs. Since I need such a small amount of
> this material, and since I can't get any locally, another idea I'm
> considering is to wrap these 6 small areas with some fiberglass cloth
> and place a hose clamp around each. I bet that will do the job.
>
> Frank
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Matco axle assembly malfunction! |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Mike Sinclair <mike.sinclair@att.net>
Wouldn't happen to have been Bartlesville would it? Yep I've got the tail
dragger. I got a feeling that even at touchdown with the trike, when the main
spring digs in the damage could be pretty severe on a grass strip when it
makes that sharp turn. Kinda beside the point though. The main thing here
appears to be a poorly designed and fabricated piece of hardware. The FAA has
my wheel and axle and they are going to have their metalurgical people take a
look at it. A friend of mine that helped to retrieve the plane is also
building a 701 and has the Matco system. He took a look at his (still in the
bubble wrap) and on the wheel assembly he brought over there were 3 areas that
looked like the weld was contaminated. One was pretty major and about a half
inch long. Bottom line, if you have an axle from Matco, you probably should
look it over pretty carefully. For me I need to order parts for a complete
right wing, slats and flaperons, some pretty major repair on the fuselage at
the left gear attach point, and the right rear wing attach point (plus a few
other localized repairs), probably pull the engine and have it gone through,
new blades for the prop, partial exhaust, radiator and oil cooler, probably
will go with a redesigned main gear spring, lay-up a new cowl, and New Axle
Assemblies! Sure screws up the idea of going to a fly-in tomorrow and the
choice of two for next weekend. I would be more depressed if I wasn't so
pissed off.
Jimmy Parker wrote:
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jimmy Parker <jwestie1@juno.com>
>
> Mike,
> Sorry to hear about your mishap.
> I was looking forward to meeting you.
> Some GA guys met you at a fly-in and loved your plane.
> They make mention to me because they found out I was building a 701.
> Question:
> You have a "tail dragger" right?
> Do you think the damage would have been as great on
> the original tricycle gear?
> Jim
> 5098 701
> Do not archive
>
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