---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/17/04: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:26 AM - Work Table (Richard T Perry) 2. 02:37 AM - Thank you for your email (Dan Viet Newspaper) 3. 04:47 AM - Re: Work Table (Andrew SanClemente) 4. 06:42 AM - DARs and FAA offices--the good, the bad, the ugly (Bob Miller) 5. 07:04 AM - Re: Building table idea (Hal Rozema) 6. 08:06 AM - Re: center spar/skin trimming (mike honer) 7. 08:51 AM - FW: 640: bill of materials? (Matthew Mucker) 8. 10:21 AM - Re:Back on list (EMAproducts@aol.com) 9. 11:04 AM - 601HDS forms, jigs and molds (Larry McFarland) 10. 03:41 PM - Re: Work Table (Dave Austin) 11. 04:47 PM - 912S Engine question.. (Jon Croke) 12. 05:03 PM - FAA (Jeff Paden) 13. 05:24 PM - Re: FAA (Randy Stout) 14. 06:02 PM - Re: 912S Engine question.. (Frank Jones) 15. 07:33 PM - Re: 912S Engine question.. (Dave Alberti) 16. 08:07 PM - 1 year anniversary (Jon Croke) 17. 09:02 PM - Re: 912S Engine question.. (Brett) 18. 09:28 PM - Re: 912S Engine question.. (Ken Szewc) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:17 AM PST US From: "Richard T Perry" Subject: Zenith-List: Work Table --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard T Perry" Snce I'm still in the planning stages, and since the previous poster kinda brought it up... How critical is the whole flat and level workbench thing? Essentially, I'm thinking I'm going to build my table like I was building a model railroad table (which also has to be fairly flat and level) - probably 1x6 L-stringers and an MDF top. However, I'm open to suggestions. Richard Perry ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:07 AM PST US From: "Dan Viet Newspaper" Subject: Zenith-List: Thank you for your email --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dan Viet Newspaper" Thank you, We have received your email. It will be attended to as soon as we possibly can. Have a nice day! Cam on ban, Chung toi da nhan duoc email cua ban. Chung toi se hoi dap trong thoi gian som nhat. Chuc ban mot ngay vui ve. Tuan bao Dan Viet. (This is an auto reply message) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:56 AM PST US From: Andrew SanClemente Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Work Table --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente Level is important, especially for things like setting the twist on the wings and ailerons, but remember, your not building the space shuttle so don't get crazy about it either. - Andy On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:24:22 +1200, Richard T Perry wrote: >--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard T Perry" > > >Snce I'm still in the planning stages, and since the previous poster >kinda >brought it up... > >How critical is the whole flat and level workbench thing? >Essentially, I'm >thinking I'm going to build my table like I was building a model >railroad >table (which also has to be fairly flat and level) - probably 1x6 >L-stringers and an MDF top. > >However, I'm open to suggestions. > >Richard Perry > > >_- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:07 AM PST US From: "Bob Miller" Subject: Zenith-List: DARs and FAA offices--the good, the bad, the ugly --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Bob Miller" Great idea Jim. Maybe anybody that knows of particularly good OR bad ones could post. Let's give our business to the good guys! Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: unacceptable registration. was:Re: Zenith-List: aileron hinges > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Tebenkof@aol.com > > anyone feel like posting the names/locations of these nuisance DARs and > FAA > offices? Sound like good people to avoid if you can. > > Jim G. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:19 AM PST US From: Hal Rozema Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Building table idea --> Zenith-List message posted by: Hal Rozema I built my 701 on two Home Depot folding party tables 30x72 with two 2x4s screwed underneath for alignment. leveled them both ways with a 4' carpenter level by shims under the feet.. After all major components were built I have two good work (junk) tables. One for each side of the plane. Everyone tries to make things more complicated and expensive than it needs to be. Hal ThePlaneFolks.Net VSTOL CH701 / 3300 ready to rig > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:22 AM PST US From: "mike honer" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: center spar/skin trimming --> Zenith-List message posted by: "mike honer" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Russell" Subject: Zenith-List: center spar/skin trimming JACK: You might want to rethink this. Once you have tightened the spar bolts, the wing WILL be perpendicular to the c/l of the fuselage. Better to slot the hole in the flap inboard bulkhead fore and/or aft to get your fit back.if you must, fabricate new rear tabs, or whatever you have to do. Chris Heintz suggested using a rat-tail file to elongate the flap actuator hole (fore and aft) to get it to line up with the actuator bell crank rod in a letter to me 2 yrs ago. Mike Honer > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell > > Thanks for all the responses on trimming the wing root skin. > I made a mistake a year ago which finally caught up with me. You guys that are building your fuselage learn from this! Make sure that the center spar extends past your side skins by a couple of mm. I don't know if is wasn't in the drawings or I just missed it but I remember looking at all of the pictures I could find to determine what it should be. I ended up with the spar flush with the inside of the side skin. The problem comes now when I tried to slide the wings into the spar and the bolt holes won't line up by a couple of mm. The only way to make it fit now is to trim back the top spar cap along with the skin. This means that the wings cannot be 90deg to the center line but slightly canted forward. I thought about trimming the rear spar back slightly to get back to the 90 deg but then my flap hinge (which is already drilled) will touch the flap arm. > Point 2- Don't trust ZAC measurements on the root skin cut.(by now I should know this.) I did cut the bottom to their measurements but for some reason I decided to leave about 20mm on the top skin. I am glad I did. The top looks good now but the bottom has about a 10mm gap which the rubber will not fill. Fortunately Rick Beckman showed me a neat trick to forget the rubber and use fiberglass for the wing root. > This whole mess just pissed me off. It would have been avoided if I would have been smarter about the center spar. Jack Russell in clovis CA > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:40 AM PST US From: "Matthew Mucker" Subject: Zenith-List: FW: 640: bill of materials? --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Matthew Mucker" All, I'm taking nine semester hours and working full time this semester, so recent airplane progress has been zero. But I went flying last night with friends for the first time in a while so my batteries are recharged. I've been away from things for so long that I don't know where to start, but was hoping a fellow 640 builder here would know where I might find a BOM for the raw materials needed to build a 640. If anyone could point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it. Thx, -Matt ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:21:01 AM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re:Back on list --> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com I've been off the list for several months, and was good to see one of my customers first time I actually had time to study list. I get list in digest form. Jeff Padden, glad you have your problem resolved, For those who don't know me, any questions re flying ~AOA's etc. are my speciality~ I sure don't know all the answers, but will attempt to find answers to those I don't know. I flew for a living for over 40 years (CFI for 43 years, aircarrier for 19) just send me a note, if something I feel worthy for all on list will post question & answer with your permission. As some of you know I have replied off list to some comments made and hope to be able to help others conduct safe flying procedures. Elbie Outstanding Customer Service is our Motto If you like it let others know, If not let me know! EM aviation, LLC Elbie Mendenhall, President 13411 NE Prairie Rd Brush Prairie, WA 98606 360-260-0772 Phone & Fax www.riteangle.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:55 AM PST US From: "Larry McFarland" Subject: Zenith-List: 601HDS forms, jigs and molds --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" Hi guys, I've just realized that I've got all the forms, jigs, some molds and some special tooling for the 601HDS structure and have no future use for it as I'm now flying. I don't see the need for making a second plane. I need to sell it all with one of my two spare engines. The collection occupies a space about 3' x 4' x 8' and weighs a lot. A couple of molds for the radiator I'll keep to make copies yet spoken for, but to get space for this winters home improvement, I'll also keep the plans and paper associated with my plane, which is not for sale. Anyone interested, let me know. Larry McFarland - 601HDS - 601HDS (flying and looking forward to paint) www.macsmachine.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:06 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Work Table --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Austin" I built mine on a pool table with a 4 x 8 sheet of 1 inch ply on top. Level as you can get it! Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:51 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: 912S Engine question.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Bill, I am forwarding this to the Zenith list... full of knowledgeble people.... Just finished a 701. 912S Rotax. I need some information. Engine has about 6 hrs. Most of it on the ground. Aircraft climbs out great (5000 rpms) About 5 sec after level off, the engine all but shuts off. Maybe 3000 rpms. Sometimes not that much. I have been up 4 times. The same every time. Has anyone else had the same trouble? Bill Atkins ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:49 PM PST US Received-SPF: none (MAIL-SERVER.madbbs.com: domain of jeffpaden@madbbs.com does not designate any permitted senders) From: "Jeff Paden" Subject: Zenith-List: FAA --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" I am just about ready to send the paper work to my local FSDO to get my aircraft inspected. Can anyone that has done this before tell me how long I should expect to wait for them to come inspect my new baby? Thanks Jeff Paden CH-640 99.9% complete FINALLY! ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:56 PM PST US From: Randy Stout Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA --> Zenith-List message posted by: Randy Stout Jeff Have you called your FSDO? If they work like mine, they won't come out to do the inspection. They will try to get you to get with a DAR. Then it will be whatever you and the DAR can workout. The FAA has a page that deals with Homebuilts. There is a list of DAR's on that page. Call several as some are more willing to inspect homebuilts than others. They also charge whatever they want, so be sure to discuss the fee. Are there any other CH-640's flying or are you the first. Randy Stout www.geocities.com/r5t0ut21 -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Paden Subject: Zenith-List: FAA --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" I am just about ready to send the paper work to my local FSDO to get my aircraft inspected. Can anyone that has done this before tell me how long I should expect to wait for them to come inspect my new baby? Thanks Jeff Paden CH-640 99.9% complete FINALLY! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:10 PM PST US From: "Frank Jones" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912S Engine question.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Frank Jones" This is very scary. Can it not be repeated on the ground where it is so much safer? I would: 1. Do a fuel flow test for a full 5 gallons of fuel. See how long it takes to pass the 5 gallons at various aircraft attitudes using an electric fuel pump while on the ground. Disconnect at the carbs and run into an empty tank. Check the max flow requirement from the Rotax manuals, and ensure you have a lot more than that. 2. Check for proper venting of your fuel tanks. Without proper venting you may have created a vacuum in your fuel tanks and impede fuel flow. Frank Jones >Bill, I am forwarding this to the Zenith list... full of knowledgeble >people.... > >Just finished a 701. 912S Rotax. I need some information. > >Engine has about 6 hrs. Most of it on the ground. Aircraft climbs out >great (5000 rpms) About 5 sec after level off, the engine all but shuts >off. Maybe 3000 rpms. Sometimes not that much. I have been up 4 times. >The same every time. Has anyone else had the same trouble? > >Bill Atkins > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:32 PM PST US From: "Dave Alberti" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912S Engine question.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Dave Alberti" Need more info....What happens after that! How are the carb vent hoses run? How much time in climb? Dave 912S Just finished a 701. 912S Rotax. I need some information. Engine has about 6 hrs. Most of it on the ground. Aircraft climbs out great (5000 rpms) About 5 sec after level off, the engine all but shuts off. Maybe 3000 rpms. Sometimes not that much. I have been up 4 times. The same every time. Has anyone else had the same trouble? Bill Atkins ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:52 PM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: 1 year anniversary --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Hard to believe it has been exactly ONE YEAR since the crashing of N701US into the neighbor's woods!! As a journey to the past I have posted the crash pictures and NTSB memo on http://CH701.com For those who have joined the list since that unforunate tragedy, the explanation and pictures of the little carb springs that caused the crash are also detailed (click on picture) I am about 70% done with the rebuild... and this time, I bought a pneumatic riveter (pulled them all by hand first time) and with the help of many on this list, I have formed many parts from scratch (easier when you built from kit the first time!) To all who have tragedies like this.. it is wonderful to know that you can put it all back together again! This list keeps my mental machinery in alignment to help get to the finish line once more... thanks to all! Jon near Green Bay do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:12 PM PST US From: "Brett " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 912S Engine question.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Brett " Where are your oil drain lines? Front or back? > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" > > Bill, I am forwarding this to the Zenith list... full of knowledgeble > people.... > > > Just finished a 701. 912S Rotax. I need some information. > > Engine has about 6 hrs. Most of it on the ground. Aircraft climbs out > great (5000 rpms) About 5 sec after level off, the engine all but shuts > off. Maybe 3000 rpms. Sometimes not that much. I have been up 4 times. > The same every time. Has anyone else had the same trouble? > > Bill Atkins > > > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > _- ======================================================================= = > > > > > > Thanks Brett Ray www.hog-air.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:08 PM PST US From: Ken Szewc Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 912S Engine question.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: Ken Szewc Not much information to go on but it could be this. Make sure you have not extended the carburetor bowl vent lines. The older 701 manual says to do this, however if you do it will create a vacuum and suck all of the fuel out of the carburetor bowls once you get up to speed. This happened to a friend with a kitfox. Ken Szewc 701SP 912S 65 hours Getting ready to paint -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Croke Subject: Zenith-List: 912S Engine question.. --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" Bill, I am forwarding this to the Zenith list... full of knowledgeble people.... Just finished a 701. 912S Rotax. I need some information. Engine has about 6 hrs. Most of it on the ground. Aircraft climbs out great (5000 rpms) About 5 sec after level off, the engine all but shuts off. Maybe 3000 rpms. Sometimes not that much. I have been up 4 times. The same every time. Has anyone else had the same trouble? Bill Atkins == == == ==