Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:24 AM - Re: Jef Paden (EMAproducts@aol.com)
2. 12:30 AM - Re: Re: Jef Paden (Jeff Paden)
3. 02:20 AM - CH 200 (Peter Cove)
4. 04:18 AM - Re: 1 year anniversary (Scott Laughlin)
5. 04:30 AM - Re: FAA (Andrew SanClemente)
6. 06:12 AM - Re: FAA (Ron DeWees)
7. 06:18 AM - Re: 1 year anniversary (Larry McFarland)
8. 09:11 AM - Re: 1 year anniversary (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
9. 11:30 AM - Re: FAA (nhulin)
10. 12:53 PM - Engine heaters for winter (Larry McFarland)
11. 01:05 PM - Re: Re: FAA (Andrew SanClemente)
12. 02:15 PM - Re: Re: FAA (Jack Russell)
13. 03:02 PM - Re: CH 200 (Hilary Cunningham)
14. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: FAA (Andrew SanClemente)
15. 06:21 PM - 801 update (Keystone Engineering LLC)
16. 06:21 PM - Re: Work Table (John Flavin)
17. 08:06 PM - Re: 801 update (Benford2@aol.com)
18. 09:30 PM - O-360 on mogas for my CH801 (Gary Craze)
19. 10:05 PM - Re: Work Table (Lance Gingell)
Message 1
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
In a message dated 10/18/04 12:01:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
zenith-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Jeff Paden
CH-640 99.9% complete FINALLY!
Jeff, I presume you are leaving the 1 % not completed so the FAA inspector
won't have to look to hard to find something to complete?
The time will vary on just how busy they are, I don't think there is an
answer to that one.
Elbie Mendenhall
Message 2
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Received-SPF: none (MAIL-SERVER.madbbs.com: domain of jeffpaden@madbbs.com
does not designate any permitted senders)
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com>
-------Original Message-------
Jeff, I presume you are leaving the 1 % not completed so the FAA inspector
won't have to look to hard to find something to complete?
The time will vary on just how busy they are, I don't think there is an
answer to that one.
Elbie Mendenhall
<grin> I won't consider the aircraft complete until the FAA inspector issues
the airworthy certificate.
Once I have that then I will feel like the aircraft is complete! I sure
hope I will still have at least a few nice days to test fly her before we
get hit with snow. I'll let you all know how things go.
Jeff Paden
Message 3
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Cove" <p3080938@optusnet.com.au>
My name is Peter Cove residing in Western Australia. About 12 months ago, my friend
and I purchased a Zenith CH 200 from the Eastern States (Aust.) which had
been first started about 1978 from drawings.
When we undertook our bit, it was about 50% complete and we are now about 85%
to the finish.
We are seeking help to find what modifications have been incorporated since Spring1980
(the last issue we have of the "Zenair News") so they can carry out on the plane.
Is there a web site, address or person we can get assistance from? Any help
appreciated.
Do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | 1 year anniversary |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin" <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Jon, it's been a great inspiration to see you rebuild. I remember when you
first reported the accident and I was kind of sick about it after seeing the
wreckage, but I was glad you made it back to the house in one piece. It's
been great to see you get back in there and rebuild. Keep up the good work
and keep us posted on your progress.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Hard to believe it has been exactly ONE YEAR since the crashing of N701US
into the neighbor's woods!!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
Message 5
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
I would go with the DAR, it may cost you a few dollars but they will
work on a very short timeline as opposed to the FAA. Depending upon
how busy your local FSDO is you could wait a VERY LONG time.
Depending upon the individual, they may be willing to take a look
before the "official" inspection and maybe point out anything they
don't like so you will be pretty much assured of a good inspection
when the time comes.
- Andy
Message 6
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Ron DeWees" <rdewees@mindspring.com>
Andy,
I generally agree with you, but I don't think $500 or $600 bucks is
insignificant. ALso the DAR I was planning on using told a friend of mine
that he would never approve a Zenair with hingless ailerons as he considered
them unsafe . If I spring for big bucks, I at least want to get an
intelligent opinion.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew SanClemente" <ansancle@townisp.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: FAA
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
> <ansancle@townisp.com>
>
> I would go with the DAR, it may cost you a few dollars but they will
> work on a very short timeline as opposed to the FAA. Depending upon
> how busy your local FSDO is you could wait a VERY LONG time.
> Depending upon the individual, they may be willing to take a look
> before the "official" inspection and maybe point out anything they
> don't like so you will be pretty much assured of a good inspection
> when the time comes.
> - Andy
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 1 year anniversary |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
John,
You're a very lucky guy. Really pleased you didn't hit
anything harder. These springs the return springs that open the
throttle? I used push-pull .060 sheathed wire for one carb and
interconnected the carbs with a link. Don't know applicability for 701.
Amazing that the aircraft is so intact after seeing your pictures.
The 701 still has a lot of good structure there.
Keep us up on your progress.
Larry McFarland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: 1 year anniversary
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
>
> Hard to believe it has been exactly ONE YEAR since the crashing of N701US
> into the neighbor's woods!!
>
> As a journey to the past I have posted the crash pictures and NTSB memo on
> http://CH701.com
>
> For those who have joined the list since that unforunate tragedy, the
> explanation and pictures of the little carb springs that caused the crash
> are also detailed (click on picture)
>
> I am about 70% done with the rebuild... and this time, I bought a
> pneumatic
> riveter (pulled them all by hand first time) and with the help of many on
> this list, I have formed many parts from scratch (easier when you built
> from
> kit the first time!)
>
> To all who have tragedies like this.. it is wonderful to know that you can
> put it all back together again!
>
> This list keeps my mental machinery in alignment to help get to the finish
> line once more... thanks to all!
>
> Jon
> near Green Bay
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | 1 year anniversary |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Wow John,
Remember it well. I too was uterly sickened, particularly as we'd met
and took the chance to go fly when you were out here in Oregon. It
really made me wonder how I would have dealt with the situation. I'm not
sure I would have had the fortitude to to do it all again.
Good for you.
I too am about to d it all again with an RV-7...My Wife thinks I'm nuts
but she is tolerating the idea right now....:)
Cheers
Frank
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Laughlin
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 1 year anniversary
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Scott Laughlin"
--> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Jon, it's been a great inspiration to see you rebuild. I remember when
you
first reported the accident and I was kind of sick about it after seeing
the
wreckage, but I was glad you made it back to the house in one piece.
It's
been great to see you get back in there and rebuild. Keep up the good
work
and keep us posted on your progress.
Scott Laughlin
www.cooknwithgas.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Jon Croke" <jon@joncroke.com>
Hard to believe it has been exactly ONE YEAR since the crashing of
N701US into the neighbor's woods!!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how
to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 9
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
At: 05:03:49 PM PST US "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com> wrote:
> I am just about ready to send the paper work to my local
> FSDO to get my aircraft inspected.
> Can anyone that has done this before tell me how long
> I should expect to wait for them to come inspect my new baby?
Jeff,
Best bet would be your EAA chapter tech councilors. They should have a
working relationship with the local FAA guy (or gal) and have a pretty good
idea especially if there are a lot of completions in your area. Get your
tech councilor to check over your paperwork and plane FIRST. These guys can
save you a lot of work later on.
As a general comment on DARs and FAA inspectors - Invite them to a Chapter
meeting and get to know them. Grill them on everything first and then offer
them coffee and cookies. You'll soon sort out the ones that are good and the
ones that aren't. The ones that don't accept the invitation are an obvious
no-start.
..neil.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine heaters for winter |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Larry McFarland" <larrymc@qconline.com>
Hi guys,
I've been looking at portable electric coil and fan
heaters. These are 850 to 1500 W units that are all metal and have
a thermostat and two-speed fan. I saw one used to pump warm
air into the cowl via some aluminum flex duct and it looked like a
good idea. I do worry about the prospect of starting a fire what
with having a vented fuel tank. The vent is displaced by a good
6 feet at the end of the right centerwing.
The fan heaters are less than $20 but they are quiet and almost seem ideal.
Anyone have difficulty with these inside a hangar to keep an
engine oil pan warm with temps that seldom go below zero?
Larry McFarland - 601HDS
Message 11
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
Guess I just got lucky, my DAR is also my local EAA Tech counselor,
very nice guy and very knowledgeable.
My experience with the regular FAA during the paperchase has been
awful. My amendment to my registration that I sent in (local FAA type
wanted "CH" in the model name) was rejected because they forgot to
tell me to put a sentence in the amendment letter (I took very
careful notes when they told me how to do the letter). I had to spend
another $25 to next day a new amendment, my inspection is supposed to
be thursday but will most likely be postponed AGAIN. This is all
being caused by an FAA paperpusher who insists the model is "Zenith
CH 601HDS" instead of Zenith 601HDS - WHO CARES as long its the same
on all the paperwork!
Ive spent hours on the phone and about 80$ on next day shipping due
to her insistence on this change. I would have been inspected about 3
weeks ago otherwise. Im very agitated at the FAA, this does nothing
to enhance safety, its chicken***t things like this that drive me
crazy.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:29:20 -0400, nhulin wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: "nhulin" <nhulin@hotmail.com>
>
>At: 05:03:49 PM PST US "Jeff Paden" <jeffpaden@madbbs.com> wrote:
>
>>I am just about ready to send the paper work to my local
>>FSDO to get my aircraft inspected.
>>Can anyone that has done this before tell me how long
>>I should expect to wait for them to come inspect my new baby?
>
>Jeff,
>
>Best bet would be your EAA chapter tech councilors. They should have
>a
>working relationship with the local FAA guy (or gal) and have a
>pretty good
>idea especially if there are a lot of completions in your area. Get
>your
>tech councilor to check over your paperwork and plane FIRST. These
>guys can
>save you a lot of work later on.
>
>As a general comment on DARs and FAA inspectors - Invite them to a
>Chapter
>meeting and get to know them. Grill them on everything first and
>then offer
>them coffee and cookies. You'll soon sort out the ones that are good
>and the
>ones that aren't. The ones that don't accept the invitation are an
>obvious
>no-start.
>
>...neil.
>
>
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>
>
Message 12
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell <clojan@sbcglobal.net>
This is a good point. It may have been a CH 601HDS when you bought it but I am
sure you changed things slightly to make it your own. So if it is an experimental
aircraft modified by you why can't you call it a AS 601Hds! Jack in clovis
ca
Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
CH 601HDS" instead of Zenith 601HDS - WHO CARES as long its the same
on all the paperwork!
Message 13
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Hilary Cunningham <hilaryc@paradise.net.nz>
Hello Peter
It's not often a CH200 gets mentioned on the list.
I have one, ZK ZEN, that was built from plans (not by me) and was finished
in the early 80's. I have forwarded on your email to the guy that built
mine (Barrie Vivien) but in case he is not able to help I thought I would
just mention that there is an AD out at the moment relating to the locking
nose wheel mechanism due to a recent fatality here (the second of this
nature in NZ).
You can see details of the accident on the CAA website www.caa.govt.nz /
Accidents and Incidents / Fatal Accident Reports / ZK-JLP.
Information on the AD can be found under Rules and More / Airworthiness
Directives (ADs) / Amateur Built / DCA/ABUILT/8
Regards
Hilary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Cove" <p3080938@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Zenith-List: CH 200
> --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Peter Cove" <p3080938@optusnet.com.au>
>
> My name is Peter Cove residing in Western Australia. About 12 months ago,
> my friend and I purchased a Zenith CH 200 from the Eastern States (Aust.)
> which had been first started about 1978 from drawings.
> When we undertook our bit, it was about 50% complete and we are now about
> 85% to the finish.
> We are seeking help to find what modifications have been incorporated
> since Spring1980
> (the last issue we have of the "Zenair News") so they can carry out on
> the plane.
> Is there a web site, address or person we can get assistance from? Any
> help appreciated.
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com>
AMEN
- Andy
DO NOT ARCHIVE
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 14:14:43 -0700 (PDT), Jack Russell wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jack Russell
><clojan@sbcglobal.net>
>
>This is a good point. It may have been a CH 601HDS when you bought
>it but I am sure you changed things slightly to make it your own. So
>if it is an experimental aircraft modified by you why can't you call
>it a AS 601Hds! Jack in clovis ca
>
>Andrew SanClemente <ansancle@townisp.com> wrote:
>--> Zenith-List message posted by: Andrew SanClemente
>
>CH 601HDS" instead of Zenith 601HDS - WHO CARES as long its the same
>on all the paperwork!
>
>
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>_-
>=====================================================================
>===
>
>
Message 15
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Keystone Engineering LLC <keystone@gci.net>
Hi
I just flew N801BW with the flaperons up as shown in the revised drawing 8CN_3_1 (9-22-04 rev). http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/data/8cn-3-1.pdf The wind was blowing and it was lumpy but it looked like I picked up a couple of miles per hour. Has any one else moved their flaperons up? The change moves the rear edge of the flaperons up about 7 mm. The change reminds me of the 5 degrees up flap setting they have on some Maules. I did it by moving the "up" flap set point just a little. It only took 30-40 minutes.
Make sure your controls don't rub with the change. Mine rubs just slightly on
the metal box between the back windows with the flaps all the way up and full
flaperon deflection.
Gees with 2 MPH here, hopefully another 1-2 with the prop spinner and another 2-3
with the streamlined lift struts I may have to get the prop flattened to maintain
my 100 MPH cruise.. Ha Ha Ha. I may be moving right along at 105 MPH!
Gee, that would be a 5% improvement, that is significant! I will be going so
fast, I wonder if my 100 mile an hour tape will still work?
Coming back from a camping trip with 2 big guys, half tanks, a weeks worth of camping
gear and 5 deer, the 801 came off the beach after a longer than usual ground
run. Because of the rearward CG, it over rotated! It was nice to get
the nose up out of the sand but I was surprised it came up so soon, so much and
so easily. To make sure I would not get into trouble, I held a slightly nose
high attitude and it flew off at 70. Heck, I thought I was flying an empty
Cessna! With the rearward CG it gained about 5 mph in cruise.
If you look at the W&B sheet for the 801 http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/data/801-w&b.pdf you can see with a rearward CG, the CG is about over the rear wheels. This explains why it would rotate so easily! I must have been in CG because without us in the front seat, the nose wheel was still on the ground!!!!
Why didn't I build one of these years ago?
Bill Wilcox
N801BW
135 hrs
Valdez, AK
Message 16
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: John Flavin <jflavin@intrex.net>
Just to throw out a number, I'd recommend you shoot for at least 3/16"
of flat across the entire table. That may be slightly overkill, but at
least you won't have to worry about it.
I built my 701 elevator and horizontal stab on a 4'x8' table that
checked "ok" using a el cheapo 3' level, but started noticing subtle
misalignments as I shifted work from one part of the table to another.
Ended up working just in one corner of the table and everything turned
out real good, but decided to do better when expanding the table to 4' x
12' for the wings. Placed shims under legs based on a water level
along the edges, then between table top layers based on a
straight-edge. Got to within close to 1/8" across the whole table, but
that last little bit probably isn't worth the effort.
You'll spend an awful lot of time leaning over/under/on top of/torquing
straps on/etc that bench. Make it good and solid while you're at it.
John Flavin
Raleigh, NC
* --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Richard T Perry" <perryrt@hotmail.com <mailto:perryrt@hotmail.com>>
Snce I'm still in the planning stages, and since the previous poster kinda
brought it up...
How critical is the whole flat and level workbench thing? Essentially, I'm
thinking I'm going to build my table like I was building a model railroad
table (which also has to be fairly flat and level) - probably 1x6
L-stringers and an MDF top.
However, I'm open to suggestions.
Richard Perry*
Message 17
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: Benford2@aol.com
In a message dated 10/18/2004 7:22:16 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
keystone@gci.net writes:
>
> I just flew N801BW with the flaperons up as shown in the revised drawing
> 8CN_3_1 (9-22-04 rev). http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/data/8cn-3-1.pdf The
> wind was blowing and it was lumpy but it looked like I picked up a couple of
> miles per hour. Has any one else moved their flaperons up? The change
> moves the rear edge of the flaperons up about 7 mm. The change reminds me of
the
> 5 degrees up flap setting they have on some Maules. I did it by moving the
> "up" flap set point just a little. It only took 30-40 minutes
I have been running reflex in my flaperons since my first flight. I can see a
slight improvment in speed too. About 2-3 mph....
Ben Haas N801BH
Message 18
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| Subject: | O-360 on mogas for my CH801 |
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gary Craze" <garycraze@hotmail.com>
Hi all, I'll be using an O-360 in the CH801 I'm building.
With the way fuel prices keep rising, I'm interested in any feedback on
360's with mogas. I had an STC on my Cessna 170 for mogas, and was
extremely pleased with the performance, but I don't have any knowledge
on a 360. I've heard of a few running "de-rated" to 170hp with mogas.
Also, I'd like to say that while I appreciate the feedback, I'd like to
keep the topic to experiences with mogas on a O-360, and not a diatribe
on why you should / should not use mogas in an airplane.
Many thanks in advance,
Gary Craze
Houston, TX
N801GC (reserved)
Message 19
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--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Lance Gingell" <lgingell@matrix-logic.com>
I built my tail section with the bottom of the tail kit crate (9 x 3) on
some saw horses.
I used my XL wing crate (12 x 4) on its own (freestanding) to build the
wings. I needed to add a couple of shims, but it was great. No fuss or
faffing.
..lance
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